Tentmaker Forum

Hiya,

Today I received an email; and in that email was a link; and in that link was a poorly done picture of Jesus crying.

The quote on the picture said, "I love you".

I looked at the picture and was kind of disturbed by it.

It was not from any universal salvation believer, it was from a mainstream baptist church.

I am so sick of the religion of Christianity, that all the image made my stomach turn.

I could not handle seeing Jesus being associated with the ills of a eternal torture doctrine.

Have you found yourself disturbed by the love professed by so-called Christians who preach a different gospel?

:mblush: :gangel:

Matthew 5:3
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


"poor"

G4434
πτωχός
ptōchos
pto-khos'
From πτώσσω ptōssō (to crouch; akin to G4422 and the alternate of G4098); a beggar (as cringing), that is, pauper (strictly denoting absolute or public mendicancy, although also used in a qualified or relative sense; whereas G3993 properly means only straitened circumstances in private), literally (often as noun) or figuratively (distressed): - beggar (-ly), poor.

How do we make many rich?

Quote from: Molly on January 20, 2009, 02:17:47 AM
How do we make many rich?

I think it is  rich in faith Molly
   more precious than gold ,  the gold rusts and burns  the rich with fire
  faith seems  to be what is most precious to God according to Peters testimony
Jam 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.


  sorry  to get off topic  :mblush:
  Images/ idols  are nothing  as Paul stated  what power do they posses  except to stumble  the poor /weak  in faith and make  needless sacrifices     and anger GOD


  I know that knowledge is not what makes us Just before GOD it is  faith  in Him 
  :HeartThrob:

Hiya,

I also hate marketing propaganda and other blatant attempts to persuade people through use of emotional appeals.

Jesus isn't crying, because He isn't losing any.

:laughing7: :grin:

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 20, 2009, 02:51:39 AM
Hiya,

I also hate marketing propaganda and other blatant attempts to persuade people through use of emotional appeals.

Jesus isn't crying, because He isn't losing any.

:laughing7: :grin:

:thumbsup:

  I hear that

  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 20, 2009, 12:22:45 AM
Hiya,

Today I received an email; and in that email was a link; and in that link was a poorly done picture of Jesus crying.

The quote on the picture said, "I love you".

I looked at the picture and was kind of disturbed by it.

It was not from any universal salvation believer, it was from a mainstream baptist church.

I am so sick of the religion of Christianity, that all the image made my stomach turn.

I could not handle seeing Jesus being associated with the ills of a eternal torture doctrine.

Have you found yourself disturbed by the love professed by so-called Christians who preach a different gospel?

:mblush: :gangel:

Jesus wept. John 11:35
Probably the shortest verse in the Bible. Jesus wept over Lazarus having perished - even though He knew He would raise Lazarus up, He still wept.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Is it inconceivable to picture Jesus weeping over the lost, those who have perished, even if He plans to raise them up too?
What's that old saying, 'if look for the bad in something you'll surely find it'?

yea it is all true.

The apostle tells us how we make many rich--


Giving no offence in anything

In much patience

By pureness

By knowledge

By longsuffering

By kindness

By the Holy Ghost

By love unfeigned

By the word of truth

By the power of God


16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

--2 Cor 6

Quote from: Molly on January 20, 2009, 10:02:06 PM
The apostle tells us how we make many rich--


Giving no offence in anything

In much patience

By pureness

By knowledge

By longsuffering

By kindness

By the Holy Ghost

By love unfeigned

By the word of truth

By the power of God


16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

--2 Cor 6

Hi Molly , yes sis , those things will add to the treasure  in earthen vessels and Praises to God .. :icon_flower:


2Cr 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
  our heartsMat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

   :thumbsup:
  treasure Strong's G2344 - thēsauros

  1) the place in which good and precious things are collected and laid up

a) a casket, coffer, or other receptacle, in which valuables are kept

b) a treasury

c) storehouse, repository, magazine

2) the things laid up in a treasury, collected treasures
           :HeartThrob:

What strikes me is that it is the fulfillment of Rev 21--


1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



It's already here! :bgdance:

Quote from: Brian on January 20, 2009, 05:48:26 AM

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 20, 2009, 12:22:45 AM
Hiya,

Today I received an email; and in that email was a link; and in that link was a poorly done picture of Jesus crying.

The quote on the picture said, "I love you".

I looked at the picture and was kind of disturbed by it.

It was not from any universal salvation believer, it was from a mainstream baptist church.

I am so sick of the religion of Christianity, that all the image made my stomach turn.

I could not handle seeing Jesus being associated with the ills of a eternal torture doctrine.

Have you found yourself disturbed by the love professed by so-called Christians who preach a different gospel?

:mblush: :gangel:

Jesus wept. John 11:35
Probably the shortest verse in the Bible. Jesus wept over Lazarus having perished - even though He knew He would raise Lazarus up, He still wept.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Is it inconceivable to picture Jesus weeping over the lost, those who have perished, even if He plans to raise them up too?
What's that old saying, 'if look for the bad in something you'll surely find it'?

Actually, I don't see Jesus weeping over the death of Lazrus . . .he'd known for days that he was dead and there were no tears at his death . . .so why would there be as he came to the tomb?  Did it just hit him then?  In reading it slowly . . what moved Jesus to tears . . .IMHO . . .was the compassion and love he saw Lazrus family and friends had for him.

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

It's not death that moves him, it's relationships.  I wonder if that's why I cry at chick flicks . . .it's just Jesus manifesting in me. :laughing7:

  Good one Nate ,
I also wonder if it was because they had no idea of the power of God yet ?
  the power to raise the dead  back to life again  to  His glory and to our  shame?
note these  disciples /students  slept for  sorrow and  this is when the temptation comes ! 
the enemy sowed tares while men slept ..


Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Luk 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.


Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.


Luk 22:45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,


Luk 22:46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
 
  the more I really  read the scriptures    the more I see sleeping / and death are one and the same
  you dont have to literally  die physically  to experience these things

  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Rosethe more I really  read the scriptures    the more I see sleeping / and death are one and the same
  you dont have to literally  die physically  to experience these things

Yes, hence the walking dead.


Luke 9:60
Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.


It's going to take a mighty cry and a strong voice to wake them up.

Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 10:16:14 PM
Actually, I don't see Jesus weeping over the death of Lazrus . . .he'd known for days that he was dead and there were no tears at his death . . .so why would there be as he came to the tomb?  Did it just hit him then?  In reading it slowly . . what moved Jesus to tears . . .IMHO . . .was the compassion and love he saw Lazrus family and friends had for him.

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

It's not death that moves him, it's relationships.  I wonder if that's why I cry at chick flicks . . .it's just Jesus manifesting in me. :laughing7:

I agree, and overall see it as Jesus weeping over what Paul refers to as the agony of death. That's probably where we get the phrase "upon pain of death". Death, whether physical or spiritual, causes pain and sorrow all around. When my brother renounced Christ, he committed spiritual suicide, that cause a gut wrenching ripple effect, and I'm sure Jesus wept. I can see Jesus weeping over the lost, whether or not He knows they'll eventually be reconciled to Him, in this life or in the afterlife. Quite frankly my stomach often turns here regarding the seemingly vitriolic attitude expressed by some, towards all of Christendom, that isn't viewed as 100% pure fuzzy warm UR.

QuoteQuite frankly my stomach often turns here regarding the seemingly vitriolic attitude towards all of Christendom, that isn't viewed as 100% pure UR.

Hiya,

If you are quite fine having your Savior misrepresented, then that is your prerogative to feel however you want.

:dontknow:

Quote from: Brian on January 21, 2009, 12:41:53 AM

Quote from: Nathan on January 20, 2009, 10:16:14 PM
Actually, I don't see Jesus weeping over the death of Lazrus . . .he'd known for days that he was dead and there were no tears at his death . . .so why would there be as he came to the tomb?  Did it just hit him then?  In reading it slowly . . what moved Jesus to tears . . .IMHO . . .was the compassion and love he saw Lazrus family and friends had for him.

Hiya,

Now what does Jesus weeping over the loss of his friend Lazarus, is Jesus weeping over the lost?

Was Lazarus lost, and that is why Jesus wept?

I would like you to explain how the reason my stomach turned was not because a religion was going out making people feel guilty by showing a corny picture of Jesus crying over the world.

Knowing full well the picture was created because the artist believes that 99.8% of the world will be lost and the organization that promotes the picture comes from a doctrine that says those lost will be tortured endlessly.

Then how about explaining to everyone, in your wisdom, how it turns your stomach when you perceive a vitriolic attitude towards Christianity just because it doesn't believe in universal salvation.

Do you truly believe that I have no grounds to be disgusted with it?

If you can take some responsibility to the words you speak, I would be happy to explain even further that it is not just because Christianity does not believe in universal salvation, that I appear to have a vitriolic attitude towards it.

Can you do that sir?

:Pray: :fool:

Hiya,

You are not the first to ask me that question.

I was invited here by Craig, he was SOTW here, and I now keep in contact with him.

Didn't know at the time it was the same Craig from facebook.

It is difficult to find any serious discussion group and I was hoping to find it here.

It appears that he was banned for his own good, because he was getting rather bitter about the whole universal salvation doctrine and the people who associate themselves as it's ambassadors.

I believe everyone is accountable for their thoughts and words, and responsible for their studies and the knowledge they share.

Something I found in common with Craig, and why I joined his facebook group and how I ended up here.

Yuni

:mfriends:  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 21, 2009, 01:32:54 AM
Two peas in a pod  :grin:

Well enjoy yourself here, I much rather be among ETers  :grin:

Cant say I blame you ONE bit Fire.... :HeartThrob:

Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 21, 2009, 01:45:36 AM

Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 01:37:43 AM

Quote from: Fireinfolding on January 21, 2009, 01:32:54 AM
Two peas in a pod  :grin:

Well enjoy yourself here, I much rather be among ETers  :grin:

Cant say I blame you ONE bit Fire.... :HeartThrob:

I love you bro  :HeartThrob:

Time to beam me outta here 

((hugs))

Got a Tardis for two :icon_flower:

Hiya,

I understand that sentiment.

I cannot please everyone, it is not my goal.

I especially do not care to please those who complain about it, or use a flippant attitude concerning it.

Though, the evidence in the last two months are piling up to support a conclusion.

That conclusion is a very uncomfortable one, but predictable.

What is that conclusion?

It is very uncomfortable to be held accountable to the knowledge and words they are speaking.

It is like being in a school and you giving a book report but forgot to read the book but instead of just admitting you don't know, you insist you know all about the book; yet, you keep getting questions about that book you cannot answer and questions about how you got your conclusions that you cannot really explain.

Instead of just admitting that you didn't read the book and really don't understand what it is you are talking about, you would rather keep your pride and attack the questions or the person asking you the questions of you concerning that book.

many of you are facetious and sarcastic and think it is a good godly thing to be like.


:2c: :thumbdown:

Hiya Fireinfolding,

You were the one who brought up the question and made the statement:

Quotetwo peas in a pod 

Well enjoy yourself here, I much rather be among ETers

Therefore, you pretty much lost any credibility that your comments actually matter anymore.

I cautioned you, it is your choice to start a fight.

Would that not be considered baiting or trolling?

Let us find out.

:grin: :happygrin:

QuoteBaiting or trolling will not be tolerated.

Baiting is similar to trolling, in that baiters, like trolls, try to elicit a response from other users. The difference is that the response is supposed to be embarrassing to the user in question, and humorous to others. Baiters frequently concentrate on groups they do not like - Source: Wikipedia

Hiya!

Let us have a poll:

How many find this quote,

Quotetwo peas in a pod

Well enjoy yourself here, I much rather be among ETers

Baiting or Trolling, in accordance to the definition provided by Tentmaker Forums from Wikipedia?

:happygrin: :laughing7:

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 21, 2009, 01:28:00 AM
Hiya,

You are not the first to ask me that question.

I was invited here by Craig, he was SOTW here, and I now keep in contact with him.

Didn't know at the time it was the same Craig from facebook.

It is difficult to find any serious discussion group and I was hoping to find it here.

It appears that he was banned for his own good, because he was getting rather bitter about the whole universal salvation doctrine and the people who associate themselves as it's ambassadors.

I believe everyone is accountable for their thoughts and words, and responsible for their studies and the knowledge they share.

Something I found in common with Craig, and why I joined his facebook group and how I ended up here.

Yuni

:mfriends:  :HeartThrob:

Are you sure you are not Craig? You sure do sound like him. I can understand why you two are friends.  :grin:

CHB

QuoteAre you sure you are not Craig? You sure do sound like him. I can understand why you two are friends.  grin

Hiya,

I do not know if you mean that as a compliment or as an insult because I do not know how you view him.

All I know is, I can understand his frustrations.

:sigh: :dontknow:

After looking at that passage a little more . . .I've again found a problem with how King James translates it.  It speaks of Jesus "groaning" within himself.  And as we look at our use of the word, and given the context here that Jesus' best friend just dies . . .we ASSUME he's mourning.  But that's not what groaning here means.  Here's a definition I pulled up off of esword .. . .

embrimaomai
em-brim-ah'-om-ahee
From G1722 and βριμάομαι brimaomai (to snort with anger); to have indignation on, that is, (transitively) to blame, (intransitively) to sigh with chagrin, (specifically) to sternly enjoin: - straitly charge, groan, murmur against.

Jesus wasn't mourning, he was ticked off.  So in seeing that, I had to go back to the context and see what it was I missed because up to now, I've seen that Jesus was moved by the emotion and love the others had for the passing of their beloved.

30Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.

31The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.

32Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

Could it be, instead of him mourning "with" them, he was disgusted "at" them for not believing that he could do what he said he'd do?  I think it's even more telling a couple verses later.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

36Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?

38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

Groaneth . .. same word . . .same emotion.  he was ticked off at them for their cynicism.   

39Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?  41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.  42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

I sense our own emotions have come to the surface against each other and rather than edifying, we're imploding.  The message and the reason for boards such as these and the thousands of others out there like them, is for the purpose of eagles gathering together.  Every flock tends to attrack vultures as well.  Eagles feed on the life of truth in each other, the vultures live for the death of others.  The focus for us is to look for and live in the room that illuminates the fact that you are a resurrected people.  You are not here to use your sword against another, but to let light shine through you that edifies and builds up another.  Let the discipline come to those whom authority is appointed to.  And when dealing with these forums . .with "this" forum, there is a short list of mods that have accepted that role . ..for the rest of us, can we not pursue the love of Christ for the maturity of ourselves?  

Quote from: NathanCould it be, instead of him mourning "with" them, he was disgusted "at" them for not believing that he could do what he said he'd do?  I think it's even more telling a couple verses later.

Hi Nathan, that's what I said--

I think it was a combination of frustration and empathy.  Imagine looking at it from his point of view lol.  Nobody gets anything he is saying...Plus they are suffering needlessly...

Just before this incident he goes back and forth with the disciples on this subject--

Lazarus is sick and dying

Lazarus is sleeping

Oh he's sleeping?  that's better.

Lazarus is dead

LOL

They don't understand a word he is saying.

I see what you're saying NOW.  the groaning threw me .. .stupid translators!

Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 02:46:34 AM
I see what you're saying NOW.  the groaning threw me .. .stupid translators!

yeah.  That's why the greek and Hebrew are so important.

I've decided to give everyone a one year extension to learn them. :cloud9:

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 02:52:25 AM

Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 02:46:34 AM
I see what you're saying NOW.  the groaning threw me .. .stupid translators!

yeah.  That's why the greek and Hebrew are so important.

I've decided to give everyone a one year extension to learn them. :cloud9:

and Five yrs Grace for me to learn English I hope Molly... :icon_flower:

Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 02:54:24 AM

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 02:52:25 AM

Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 02:46:34 AM
I see what you're saying NOW.  the groaning threw me .. .stupid translators!

yeah.  That's why the greek and Hebrew are so important.

I've decided to give everyone a one year extension to learn them. :cloud9:

and Five yrs Grace for me to learn English I hope Molly... :icon_flower:

"granted"  :icon_flower:

G1325
δίδωμι
didōmi
did'-o-mee
A prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternate in most of the tenses); to give (used in a very wide application, properly or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection): - adventure, bestow, bring forth, commit, deliver (up), give, grant, hinder, make, minister, number, offer, have power, put, receive, set, shew, smite (+ with the hand), strike (+ with the palm of the hand), suffer, take, utter, yield.

But take a look at this, --

Before Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead he is "troubled."


33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

--John 11


[was] "troubled"

G5015
ταράσσω
tarassō
tar-as'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to stir or agitate (roil water): - trouble.


To agitate, stir, or roil water---the precursor to miraculous healing--seen also at the Bethesda pools--it's the same word...


4For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.
--John 5

"troubled" [the water]

G5015
ταράσσω
tarassō
tar-as'-so
Of uncertain affinity; to stir or agitate (roil water): - trouble.

 :cloud9: I love that  :thumbsup:  I had always taken it that He was in travail in the Spirit when He groaned within himself, getting ready to "birth". Too cool........love His Word. Thanks for posting that, made my day........blessings

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 05:31:32 AM

Quote from: Taffy on January 21, 2009, 02:54:24 AM

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 02:52:25 AM

Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 02:46:34 AM
I see what you're saying NOW.  the groaning threw me .. .stupid translators!

yeah.  That's why the greek and Hebrew are so important.

I've decided to give everyone a one year extension to learn them. :cloud9:

and Five yrs Grace for me to learn English I hope Molly... :icon_flower:

"granted"  :icon_flower:

G1325
δίδωμι
didōmi
did'-o-mee
A prolonged form of a primary verb (which is used as an alternate in most of the tenses); to give (used in a very wide application, properly or by implication, literally or figuratively; greatly modified by the connection): - adventure, bestow, bring forth, commit, deliver (up), give, grant, hinder, make, minister, number, offer, have power, put, receive, set, shew, smite (+ with the hand), strike (+ with the palm of the hand), suffer, take, utter, yield.

:icon_flower:

Quote from: Cardinal on January 21, 2009, 07:20:45 PM
:cloud9: I love that  :thumbsup:  I had always taken it that He was in travail in the Spirit when He groaned within himself, getting ready to "birth". Too cool........love His Word. Thanks for posting that, made my day........blessings

:bgdance: :bgdance: :icon_flower:

Great.  Now will somebody please explain it to me? lol

Why do the 'waters' have to be agitated, before a miracle takes place?

Is each miracle some type of birthing?

Interesting question, Molly.  I'm sure there is a spiritual explanation for that.  It brings to mind Jonah.  The sea was greatly agitated until the sailors  threw him into it.  Then it grew calm again.  There must be some connection.

 :cloud9: Anything manifested in the natural was first birthed in the Spirit. The evidence (that which is birthed) is what we had the faith FOR, in other words. Blessings...

WOW. The second I finished writing the above, something hit me in a new way. All of creation is bringing the sons of God to birth. Put another way, ALL THINGS (created) work together for good, for those that love the Lord, and are called according to His purpose.

Hey, Molly, bet the word "waiting", as in creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God in Romans has in some way "rabbit tracks" back to an idea of bringing forth or birthing........

Molly..stirring,,,to awaken... ready to bring to life  :icon_flower:.

Quote from: Cardinal on January 21, 2009, 09:08:45 PM
:cloud9: Anything manifested in the natural was first birthed in the Spirit. The evidence (that which is birthed) is what we had the faith FOR, in other words. Blessings...

WOW. The second I finished writing the above, something hit me in a new way. All of creation is bringing the sons of God to birth. Put another way, ALL THINGS (created) work together for good, for those that love the Lord, and are called according to His purpose.

Hey, Molly, bet the word "waiting", as in creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God in Romans has in some way "rabbit tracks" back to an idea of bringing forth or birthing........

Yes!!  I see it to!!  As the spirit "moved" upon the face of the deep . . .the dove "hovered" over the head of Christ as he was baptized in the river of death.  The agitation of the waters is an act of intimacy.  For the seed of life to be released, there is a "moving" that comes first.

Quote from: Nathan on January 21, 2009, 09:42:01 PM

Quote from: Cardinal on January 21, 2009, 09:08:45 PM
:cloud9: Anything manifested in the natural was first birthed in the Spirit. The evidence (that which is birthed) is what we had the faith FOR, in other words. Blessings...

WOW. The second I finished writing the above, something hit me in a new way. All of creation is bringing the sons of God to birth. Put another way, ALL THINGS (created) work together for good, for those that love the Lord, and are called according to His purpose.

Hey, Molly, bet the word "waiting", as in creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God in Romans has in some way "rabbit tracks" back to an idea of bringing forth or birthing........

Yes!!  I see it to!!  As the spirit "moved" upon the face of the deep . . .the dove "hovered" over the head of Christ as he was baptized in the river of death.  The agitation of the waters is an act of intimacy.  For the seed of life to be released, there is a "moving" that comes first.

:cloud9:  OOH...... I see that too. Love it!  :banana: :ty:

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 21, 2009, 12:48:14 AM

QuoteQuite frankly my stomach often turns here regarding the seemingly vitriolic attitude towards all of Christendom, that isn't viewed as 100% pure UR.

Hiya,

If you are quite fine having your Savior misrepresented, then that is your prerogative to feel however you want.

:dontknow:

In what way do you consider Him misrepresented in this instance?

um . . .yy's been arrested for a fortnight . . . got a little to spicy earlier.

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 21, 2009, 01:01:24 AM
Hiya,

Now what does Jesus weeping over the loss of his friend Lazarus, is Jesus weeping over the lost?

Was Lazarus lost, and that is why Jesus wept?

I covered that as well as I know how in a privious post to this thred.

Quote
I would like you to explain how the reason my stomach turned was not because a religion was going out making people feel guilty by showing a corny picture of Jesus crying over the world.

Knowing full well the picture was created because the artist believes that 99.8% of the world will be lost and the organization that promotes the picture comes from a doctrine that says those lost will be tortured endlessly.

Then how about explaining to everyone, in your wisdom, how it turns your stomach when you perceive a vitriolic attitude towards Christianity just because it doesn't believe in universal salvation.

Do you truly believe that I have no grounds to be disgusted with it?

If you can take some responsibility to the words you speak, I would be happy to explain even further that it is not just because Christianity does not believe in universal salvation, that I appear to have a vitriolic attitude towards it.

Can you do that sir?

:Pray: :fool:

Well, first of all it's not that 99.8% of the world will be lost, it's that the a great portion of the world is lost. I can't help but feel that  Jesus is capable of weeping over those who are lost in the here and now. Unless we are to believe our relationship or lack thereof in the here and now, is of no consequence to Him

As for a doctrine of eternal torment, there really isn't a doctrine that needs to be formed. The Bible says quite plainly eternal punishment and eternal torment. When my pastor was teaching out of the Book of Revelation and got to the passage, "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night..." Rev 14:11. In my ears he said something to the equivalent that he/we would like to believe something else, but the weight of Scripture tells us otherwise. That's what he for instance is going by, the weight of Scripture. Not an evil God doctrine. But simply the weight of Scripture, painful or difficult as it is to do so. How on earth can I personally hold that against him?

And I'm quite sure you, along with many others here, have a long list of dislikes towards Christianity beyond UR. I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people who don't become apostates, become universalists. But in doing so they pretty much toss out Christianity and being a Christian. I'm getting the feeling I don't fit in here to a certain degree, because I'm too much of a Christian (and I consider myself a weak and struggling Christian BTW) It really seems too many here consider the "C" word as offensive as the "F" word. And yeah, that turns my stomach. It turns my stomach, because it makes it far too easy for those portraying such attitudes to represent UR as anti-Christian i.e. anti-Christ. If it weren't for Evangelical Universalists, there wouldn't be anyone for Christians to listen to regarding UR. Myself included.

Quote
Pray fool

Believe me, I am praying.

I think I'll go ahead and take the plunge in this one Brian.  It appears that you support the ET perspective, which is fine if that's what you choose to beleive, that's between you and the Lord.  The tone of your message strikes me as a bit disgruntled and I'm not sure if it's because of your conversation with yy or someone else.  But just for my own clarification, are you saying that the majority of posters on "this" forum are anti-Christian and "that's" what makes you feel uncomfortable?

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Great.  Now will somebody please explain it to me? lol

Why do the 'waters' have to be agitated, before a miracle takes place?

Is each miracle some type of birthing?
[/quote]


Part of a song:  "And the waters of Jordan are now rolled back
by the WATERS that come from ABOVE.
For the HOLY GHOST WATERS .............make a mighty heap.
The LIVING God is LOVE!!"

Molly, that's words or part of when the priests were told to
put their feet in the water and the people would follow them.

Notice there were two kinds of water.  Water and WATER from
Above. 

Notice in Genesis when "darkness" was on the face of the
deep, God divided the "water" from the WATER above
the firmament.  The firmament was the divider.

Yes, a MIRACLE happened when Jordan overflowed her
water............and LOVE was somewhere birthed.

Again, when the "woman" travailed in Revelation 12, she
brought forth a Son of LOVE.........tho she had to go into
hiding in the wilderness from the "face" of the serpent
who was spitting out his flood of words.  There God protected
her.  Another MIRACLE following agitation. 

ALL things are for YOUR sakes. 

Quote from: Redlettervoice on January 23, 2009, 01:27:57 AM

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Great.  Now will somebody please explain it to me? lol

Why do the 'waters' have to be agitated, before a miracle takes place?

Is each miracle some type of birthing?
[/quote]


Part of a song:  "And the waters of Jordan are now rolled back
by the WATERS that come from ABOVE.
For the HOLY GHOST WATERS .............make a mighty heap.
The LIVING God is LOVE!!"

Molly, that's words or part of when the priests were told to
put their feet in the water and the people would follow them.

Notice there were two kinds of water.  Water and WATER from
Above. 

Notice in Genesis when "darkness" was on the face of the
deep, God divided the "water" from the WATER above
the firmament.  The firmament was the divider.

Yes, a MIRACLE happened when Jordan overflowed her
water............and LOVE was somewhere birthed.

Again, when the "woman" travailed in Revelation 12, she
brought forth a Son of LOVE.........tho she had to go into
hiding in the wilderness from the "face" of the serpent
who was spitting out his flood of words.  There God protected
her.  Another MIRACLE following agitation. 

ALL things are for YOUR sakes. 

Oh . . .Redletter . . .you're right on the edge of something great . . .take it to the next level . ..when the Jordan river rolled back . . .WHERE did it roll back to??  It names a specific city . . . so profound a picture . . . totally a God thing.

And also, what does Jordan mean?  This isn't just any river . . . it's nature is always one that descends . . .connected to death . . . which even makes it more profound when you realize that there was a reason why Jesus chose to be baptized in "this" river . . .you're definitely on the edge . . . care to be pushed off??

Quote from: Nathan on January 23, 2009, 02:42:51 AM

Quote from: Redlettervoice on January 23, 2009, 01:27:57 AM

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Great.  Now will somebody please explain it to me? lol

Why do the 'waters' have to be agitated, before a miracle takes place?

Is each miracle some type of birthing?
[/quote]


Part of a song:  "And the waters of Jordan are now rolled back
by the WATERS that come from ABOVE.
For the HOLY GHOST WATERS .............make a mighty heap.
The LIVING God is LOVE!!"

Molly, that's words or part of when the priests were told to
put their feet in the water and the people would follow them.

Notice there were two kinds of water.  Water and WATER from
Above. 

Notice in Genesis when "darkness" was on the face of the
deep, God divided the "water" from the WATER above
the firmament.  The firmament was the divider.

Yes, a MIRACLE happened when Jordan overflowed her
water............and LOVE was somewhere birthed.

Again, when the "woman" travailed in Revelation 12, she
brought forth a Son of LOVE.........tho she had to go into
hiding in the wilderness from the "face" of the serpent
who was spitting out his flood of words.  There God protected
her.  Another MIRACLE following agitation. 

ALL things are for YOUR sakes. 

Oh . . .Redletter . . .you're right on the edge of something great . . .take it to the next level . ..when the Jordan river rolled back . . .WHERE did it roll back to??  It names a specific city . . . so profound a picture . . . totally a God thing.

And also, what does Jordan mean?  This isn't just any river . . . it's nature is always one that descends . . .connected to death . . . which even makes it more profound when you realize that there was a reason why Jesus chose to be baptized in "this" river . . .you're definitely on the edge . . . care to be pushed off??

haha

RED is not on the edge.  She's one of the priests standing in the middle of the river.

RED! :mfriends:


You know, Nathan, I hear what you're saying but that word Jordan also means 'boundary.'   Look here--

"Jordan"

H3383
ירדּן
yardên
yar-dane'
From H3381; a descender; Jarden, the principal river of Palestine: - Jordan.


H3381
ירד
yârad
yaw-rad'
A primitive root; to descend (literally to go downwards; or conventionally to a lower region, as the shore, a boundary, the enemy, etc.; or figuratively to fall); causatively to bring down (in all the above applications): -  X abundantly, bring down, carry down, cast down, (cause to) come (-ing) down, fall (down), get down, go (-ing) down (-ward), hang down, X indeed, let down, light (down), put down (off), (cause to, let) run down, sink, subdue, take down.



This is somehow all wrapped up in a study I'm doing on 'healing in his wings.'  There's something about a boundary, a border--the hem of the priest, the woman who touched the hem of Jesus' robe.   What does it mean?  Is Christ a border between man and God the same way death is--but with Christ the border is life?


2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
--Mal 4


"wings"

H3671
כּנף
kânâph
kaw-nawf'
From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: -  + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X flying, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).


Matthew 9:20
And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:

Matthew 14:36
And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.


"the hem'

G2899
κράσπεδον
kraspedon
kras'-ped-on
Of uncertain derivation; a margin, that is, (specifically) a fringe or tassel: - border, hem.




A border is the line between one thing and another.   Is that the place where we have to stand to do miracles?

13 "The priests will carry the ark of the Lord. He's the Lord of the whole earth. As soon as the priests step into the Jordan, it will stop flowing. The water that's coming down the river will pile up in one place. That's how you will know that the living God is among you."
14 So the people took their tents down. They prepared to go across the Jordan River. The priests who were carrying the ark of the covenant went ahead of them.

15 The water of the Jordan was going over its banks. It always does that at the time the crops are being gathered. The priests came to the river. Their feet touched the water's edge. 16 Right away the water that was coming down the river stopped flowing. It piled up far away at a town called Adam near Zarethan. The water that was flowing down to the Dead Sea was completely cut off. So the people went across the Jordan River opposite Jericho.

17 The priests carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord. They stood firm on dry ground in the middle of the river. They stayed there until the whole nation of Israel had gone across on dry ground.

--Josh 3



The priests carrying the ark actually stop the flow of the water from Adam to the dead sea when their feet touch the water's edge.   Is that symbolic enough? Death is cut off from Adam. Talk about agitated water.  They are creating their own boundary between life and death, a safe place of dry ground to cross over.  wow! :mshock:



"Most truly I say to you, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life."

--John 5:24

Quote from: Nathan on January 23, 2009, 12:31:54 AM
I think I'll go ahead and take the plunge in this one Brian.  It appears that you support the ET perspective, which is fine if that's what you choose to beleive, that's between you and the Lord.

To me it's not a matter of supporting the ET perspective, it's a matter of understanding why it exists, and not holding it against those who hold to it.

Quote
The tone of your message strikes me as a bit disgruntled and I'm not sure if it's because of your conversation with yy or someone else.  But just for my own clarification, are you saying that the majority of posters on "this" forum are anti-Christian and "that's" what makes you feel uncomfortable?

I think what's happening here, is now that I'm over my sudden onset of severe neurosis over hell, which I never really believed in personally, even before I discovered UR. Is that Christianity is becoming bigger in my life, and UR is becoming smaller. I would say that my need for belief in UR, is being overshadowed by my trust in Christ. I'm not saying that means I'm giving up on UR, it just means I no longer need to cling to it for support. (I'm not saying anyone else here clings to it, I'm just speaking of my own personal situation.) As for YY, I don't know that member outside of this thread. And "vitriolic" was too strong of a word to use. But I certainly feel "cynical" at least applies. YY's thread was simply the straw that broke the camel's back, this time around. I wouldn't say the majority of posters here are cynical towards Christianity, but I would say that too many for my taste are. I just don't see it being a good way to promote Christian Universalism. Fortunately these, so far, are the smaller voices. I certainly don't see such traits exhibited by Gary Amirault or Martin Cisneros for instance, thank God.

Quote from: YoungYuni on January 21, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Hiya Fireinfolding,

You were the one who brought up the question and made the statement:

Quotetwo peas in a pod 

Well enjoy yourself here, I much rather be among ETers

Therefore, you pretty much lost any credibility that your comments actually matter anymore.

I cautioned you, it is your choice to start a fight.

Would that not be considered baiting or trolling?

Let us find out.

:grin: :happygrin:

It could be considered that attitudes like yours, are turning people off to UR, instead of drawing them to it. Is that your goal? It would be an excellent tool for a troller/saboteur to employ after all.

.

"Most truly I say to you, He that "hears" my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life."


--John 5:Quoting Nathan
when the Jordan river rolled back . . .WHERE did it roll back to?? It names a specific city . . . so profound a picture . . . totally a God thing.

And also, what does Jordan mean? This isn't just any river . . . it's nature is always one that descends . . .connected to death . . . which even makes it more profound when you realize that there was a reason why Jesus chose to be baptized in "this" river . . .you're definitely on the edge . . . care to be pushed off??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RLV:: I hear you, Nathan.  You can tell us the city it was "rolled back to" .....I never
noticed that.  But it's akin in "my" understanding as to when God buried Moses "for
their sakes."  I sorta doubt if Moses lost "any" LIFE, just as you say, LIFE got into
the river of "death."  ha   Sounds like "death" to "death" to me.  Next time Moses was
on the scene, I think it was on the transfiguration.

...

Molly, I see now, you quoted that it was called
"Adam!" ha

Quote from: Molly on January 23, 2009, 05:07:20 AM

Quote from: Nathan on January 23, 2009, 02:42:51 AM

Quote from: Redlettervoice on January 23, 2009, 01:27:57 AM

Quote from: Molly on January 21, 2009, 07:50:35 PM
Great.  Now will somebody please explain it to me? lol

Why do the 'waters' have to be agitated, before a miracle takes place?

Is each miracle some type of birthing?
[/quote]


Part of a song:  "And the waters of Jordan are now rolled back
by the WATERS that come from ABOVE.
For the HOLY GHOST WATERS .............make a mighty heap.
The LIVING God is LOVE!!"

Molly, that's words or part of when the priests were told to
put their feet in the water and the people would follow them.

Notice there were two kinds of water.  Water and WATER from
Above. 

Notice in Genesis when "darkness" was on the face of the
deep, God divided the "water" from the WATER above
the firmament.  The firmament was the divider.

Yes, a MIRACLE happened when Jordan overflowed her
water............and LOVE was somewhere birthed.

Again, when the "woman" travailed in Revelation 12, she
brought forth a Son of LOVE.........tho she had to go into
hiding in the wilderness from the "face" of the serpent
who was spitting out his flood of words.  There God protected
her.  Another MIRACLE following agitation. 

ALL things are for YOUR sakes. 

Oh . . .Redletter . . .you're right on the edge of something great . . .take it to the next level . ..when the Jordan river rolled back . . .WHERE did it roll back to??  It names a specific city . . . so profound a picture . . . totally a God thing.

And also, what does Jordan mean?  This isn't just any river . . . it's nature is always one that descends . . .connected to death . . . which even makes it more profound when you realize that there was a reason why Jesus chose to be baptized in "this" river . . .you're definitely on the edge . . . care to be pushed off??

haha

RED is not on the edge.  She's one of the priests standing in the middle of the river.

RED! :mfriends:


You know, Nathan, I hear what you're saying but that word Jordan also means 'boundary.'   Look here--

"Jordan"

H3383
ירדּן
yardên
yar-dane'
From H3381; a descender; Jarden, the principal river of Palestine: - Jordan.


H3381
ירד
yârad
yaw-rad'
A primitive root; to descend (literally to go downwards; or conventionally to a lower region, as the shore, a boundary, the enemy, etc.; or figuratively to fall); causatively to bring down (in all the above applications): -  X abundantly, bring down, carry down, cast down, (cause to) come (-ing) down, fall (down), get down, go (-ing) down (-ward), hang down, X indeed, let down, light (down), put down (off), (cause to, let) run down, sink, subdue, take down.



This is somehow all wrapped up in a study I'm doing on 'healing in his wings.'  There's something about a boundary, a border--the hem of the priest, the woman who touched the hem of Jesus' robe.   What does it mean?  Is Christ a border between man and God the same way death is--but with Christ the border is life?


2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
--Mal 4


"wings"

H3671
כּנף
kânâph
kaw-nawf'
From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: -  + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X flying, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).


Matthew 9:20
And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:

Matthew 14:36
And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.


"the hem'

G2899
κράσπεδον
kraspedon
kras'-ped-on
Of uncertain derivation; a margin, that is, (specifically) a fringe or tassel: - border, hem.




A border is the line between one thing and another.   Is that the place where we have to stand to do miracles?

I would say to that, that "boundary" is "in" the definition . . .it's a symptom of what death and a descending mind actually does . . .it establishes limitations and barriers that prohibits others from entering into the primised land, the kingdom of Truth, from one gaining what is originally inherited to them. 

But when these priests followed the order established by God . .which was to carry the ark (the presence of God) upon their shoulders (which is to show "he" replaces "me" in that my head is removed) then in this truth, as we step into the descending river of death that established limitations to our inheritance and maturity, the instant our foot touches the surface of the waters of death, it rolls back . .it "flees" from us . .all the way back to the city of Adam . . .the origin of our flesh . . .it's the same picture as what Jesus did on the cross . . .he went to the belly of the earth . .he went to the core of man . .of carnality, and he "took" the keys, the authority that death and the grave . . .not physical death . .but spiritual death . . blindness . .he took the authority over that and gave it back to us.  All we have to do is exercise what's been given.

16That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan...

--Josh 3

the waters

which came down--descending from a higher place

from above--the upper part, the top

stood--abide, appoint, arise, stand

and rose up--ro rise, to accomplish, to help, to stir up, uphold

upon a heap--as one fleeing

very far--quickly removed

from the city --through the idea of opening the eyes, to wake, stir up self, master self

Adam

that is beside--to cut off a side, figuratively an adversary

Zaratan--to pierce





...and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

--Josh 3:16



I'm not making this stuff up! :laughing7:

The adversary is God!  :mshock:

Adam made God his adversary, turning the waters from above into death.

The only way to cut off the waters was to pierce the side of the adversary. :mshock:



1Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying,

2You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

3Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

4Will a lion roar in the forest, when he hath no prey? will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?

5Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all?

6Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

7Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

8The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?

9Publish in the palaces at Ashdod, and in the palaces in the land of Egypt, and say, Assemble yourselves upon the mountains of Samaria, and behold the great tumults in the midst thereof, and the oppressed in the midst thereof.

10For they know not to do right, saith the LORD, who store up violence and robbery in their palaces.

11Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; An adversary there shall be even round about the land; and he shall bring down thy strength from thee, and thy palaces shall be spoiled.


--Amos 3

20Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

24Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

25And ye shall serve the LORD your God, and he shall bless thy bread, and thy water; and I will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

--Exodus 23

...and those [waters] that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

--Josh 3:16



and those [waters] that came down--to descend, to go downwards to a lower region, a boundary,  figuratively to fall

toward

the sea--to roar, a sea, as breaking in a noisy surf


of the plain--in the sense of sterility, a desert


even the salt--properly powder, specifically salt (as easily pulverized and dissolved)

sea,

failed,--to complete in a good or bad sense, accomplish, cease, done


and were cut off--to cut [off, down, or asunder], by implication to destroy or consume, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces, covenant

and the people--a people, a tribe, a flock, troops, a nation

passed over--to cross over, specifically to cover, to carry over, deliver, translate

right against--to front, that is to stand bodily out opposite, against, by implication to manifest, to expose

Jericho.




17And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.
--Josh 3

.

Quoting Nathan

But when these priests followed the order established by God . .which was to carry the ark (the presence of God) upon their shoulders (which is to show "he" replaces "me" in that my head is removed) then in this truth, as we step into the descending river of death that established limitations to our inheritance and maturity, the instant our foot touches the surface of the waters of death, it rolls back . .it "flees" from us . .all the way back to the city of Adam . . .the origin of our flesh . . .it's the same picture as what Jesus did on the cross . . .he went to the belly of the earth . .he went to the core of man . .of carnality, and he "took" the keys, the authority that death and the grave . . .not physical death . .but spiritual death . . blindness . .he took the authority over that and gave it back to us.  All we have to do is exercise what's been given.

it's the same picture as what Jesus did on the cross.

Yes.

Whosoever "believeth" out of his "belly" shall flow
rivers of living water! And Jesus "believed." On the cross.

Yes, but he also took all our sin on himself, he paid the wages of sin for us, he reversed the curse, heaping the waters of death far away from Adam, cutting off death,  through the piercing of his side, the blood and water flowed, healing us so that we are able to enter into the city of God, the promised land--




1Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

2Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

--Isa 40



5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

--Isa 53

And that is then linked to his baptism Molly, he died in the river of our carnality . . .but more importantly, he brought resurrection to the river of death. . .it's the same river that goes by the same city of Adam . .but this time, it's redeemed, reconciled . .the second Adam "descended" from the first Adam to bring resurrection to the carnal man.  So that no longer do we walk according to our fallen nature, but now, we walk in a resurrected state . . .for me, that sounds very much like we have been IN the times of refreshing ever since the cross manifested in the flesh.  It's just that many have not been walking in that realm of refreshing . . .they've been so occupied with religion, that they've neglected the refreshing . . .and the river that was purified in the spirit, is magnified in the flesh.

But now, it's time we allow the spirit to wake us up . . .come out of our philosophical slumber and let go of our mentally established boundaries of understanding and trust God that this unidentified sound is one that is so true and pure that our limited minds and misled hearts have not been able to comprehend such illumination.  But for such a time as this, our hearts have been prepared without our minds awareness of such preparation . .and now the trumpet is sounding the long blast . .the day is upon us . . .the Year of Jubilee has come.

Quote from: Nathanthat this unidentified sound is one that is so true and pure that our limited minds and misled hearts have not been able to comprehend such illumination.  But for such a time as this, our hearts have been prepared without our minds awareness of such preparation . .and now the trumpet is sounding the long blast . .the day is upon us . . .the Year of Jubilee has come.

Hey Nathan, there is a new video on the opening page of this website, by Gary, called the lighning of God.

Have you seen it?  If not, will you go watch it and start a new thread on the lightning of God?

Something is going on that a lot of people have been seeing--we dance around it--but we need to grasp it fully.

 :cloud9: Good read, all....... :thumbsup:

I hope someone rescues me soon from this 'stomach turning' thread...


6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

--Gen 1


There's a firmament in the midst of the waters and it is dividing the waters above from the waters below.  That 'firmament' is heaven.


"firmament"
H7549
רקיע
râqîya‛
raw-kee'-ah
From H7554; properly an expanse, that is, the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky: - firmament.


Where then are those priests standing in Joshua 3?


16That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

17And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

--Joshua 3


The priests carrying the ark of the covenant on their shoulders are standing in the midst of the river, in a place where the waters above are divided from the waters below.  They are standing firm on the dry ground of heaven.