I'm looking for some thoughts on this... :dontknow:
This post has turned out longer than I thought it would but it details my grandad seeing Jesus before he passed away.
Now I don't personally believe in 'other people's' NDE stories. - ESPECIALLY the ones that have a book out or are benefiting OVERLY 'monetarily' from their experience. (I'm cool with 'making a living' from such an experience but If they have more than one book :mock: (into the light, back to the light, into the light again! etc!) and/or are selling 'angel dust' on their websites and other little 'money makers' and are collaborating with lying mediums etc then I especially don't believe them!!!
So stories like neurosurgeon Eben Alexanders' (who btw was not a surgeon of 'any' sort four years prior to his 'experience' and was in debt (being sued by THREE former patients)) for wrongdoings before his so-called 'NDE' (he changed medical records (fraud)) and so on apparently, or stories like Anita Moorjanis miraculous recovery from cancer (which when you dig deeper into it is also greatly suspect) (according to some of her doctors who treated her), or Dr Jeff Long's 'so-called' research on his website (which is basically 'fill in his questionaire about your NDE' and he will accept it as a fact no need to prove a thing!). :LH:
...All of these are nonsense (at least to me).
To be 'safe' I don't tend to believe any experience like these including UFO stories or miracles barr my own. (Which is why I don't expect ANYONE to believe what I'm saying here); (though please give me the benefit of the doubt in your response if possible).
I am a highly skeptical person. You have to be...Because 99% of what other people say about such things is usually bull. :URWelcome:
I 'test' things to see if they make sense...Even if it means going to places I'd rather not go to (in my mind). - I've done that all my life. I'd love to believe Ebens' story of flying around on a butterfly wing! But... Nah...Great as it sounds I do not. :laughing7:
Anyway... :banana:
Despite all this my grandad (before he passed away) (who wasn't religious btw) and as far as I know had just a simple faith in 'God' (I don't believe he had a bible or anything) said (a day or so before he died) that he:
'Saw Jesus with the children laughing together in a beautiful garden'.
He turned to my mother and said 'You do believe me don't you?'
My mother said: 'of course'.
Before this he had told us that his mother and father had 'come for him' to take him but he was 'not yet ready to go' and that they would 'come back to get him soon'.
Around this time (just a few days before he died) I experienced a telepathic communication with him after saying a prayer for him in my mind.
...His voice came into my mind and we started 'talking'.
I thought I was cracking up. I was still shaking a week later. It really 'got to me' that did because I never believed in telepathy until that moment...I'd tried it with people I loved, read about it etc (tested it) but had put telepathy down to 'total fake nonsense'. It was FAR FROM something I would ever expect to really occur in my life. :doh:
I asked my grandad to confirm THREE TIMES what he was relaying to me through thought by lifting his arm for me which he did. The third time I asked him he got annoyed (because i'd asked him to confirm twice before). I said to him 'this is the last time I'll ask but please I have to know this is real before I tell my dad what you want me to tell him!!!) and though he was weak and dying, he leaned forward on his bed, stared right into my eyes and lifted his arm slowly and deliberately as if to say "BELIEVE ME!" :girlheart:
He told me (through thoughts) that he was 'die on thursday' (which he did) (which was a huge shock to me as I thought we would have had him 'till christmas' (which was about 2 or 3 months away). - I did NOT expect him to pass so quickly... I thought he would pull through as he always had before. :dunno2:
He said other things to me through thought and I was forced to give the information to my father (as i'd promised my grandad) who accepted what I said but was rather 'blown away'. He wasn't the only one.
Now the Bible says that the dead know nothing.
I know that when we die though (and know nothing), we also won't 'know' 'TIME'.
So in other words (I am of the opinion) that perhaps when we 'die' we are suddenly 'somewhere else' (wherever you believe that to be) because there 'is no time'.
Do you understand what I mean by this?
It was actually my grandad saying that he 'saw Jesus' which really made me start reading the bible again of recent...Something I never thought I'd do again.
I've always believed in God (as love) but have always had great 'difficulties' with the Bible (which I won't get into here). I've spent most of my life just seeking 'God 'as love" in nature and in everyday life and so on rather than trying to find Him in a book... Anyway...Let's not get into that here.
My grandad was a serious man and a war vet, he had more medals than I'd ever personally seen anyone have. His father was a Captain of his own ship. He never talked about the war but he was missing an arm so it was obvious he had been an 'active soldier' and his funeral was 'something else'...I've never seen so many people...Friends, soldiers etc. Bear in mind my grandad was well into his 80's (so most of his 'friends' had already LONG since departed). He was a respected man is what I'm saying...Not prone to nonsense or making things up. :HeartThrob:
If my grandad saw Jesus then...'He saw Jesus' (to me) (Because I 'knew him' (my grandad) personally) ...I have to accept what he plainly said and as I say it's because of my grandad's seeing Jesus that made me start to look into the bible again after many years.
I believe in God.
I believe God saves all.
But (as far as I know) I am not 'saved'.
I don't even know what being 'saved' is.
Jesus says to be saved 'do this and that' and someone else says 'be baptised' and someone else 'says its not by works or this or that' and I'm lost with it all.
I don't care that much anyway...If God wants to save me then He can save me...If not, then fine. Not sure I deserve any special treatment to be honest and I don't seek it.
I'm not that 'hot' on the idea of 'someone paying my fine' for me either (Innocent Jesus being butchered on a cross for MY sins). - I just don't 'get it' and probably never will. That's not to say I don't love Jesus. I do...I dont' always do as he says though...But I try... God knows my heart.
I even include Jesus in my prayers sometimes...Sometimes I think of God as the 'Big Daddy' and Jesus as the softer more nourishing 'motherly' type figure who 'calms God down' for me if I step too far over the mark. - Or if God doesn't answer me right away it's usually then that I'll ask Jesus to 'ask God on my behalf' (or something like that).
I've nothing against Jesus... Far from it... I just don't get the whole 'cross' thing.
...Maybe it's just not for me to be 'saved' as such in this 'age' or whatever but God is still happy having me 'do some stuff' with the faith I have (and I have a good amount of faith in God as He has shown me incredible things and worked wonders in my life) (He has even saved my life before...Possibly twice when I hit rock bottom) in ways that I would never even attempt to explain to anyone. I know God is real. I know God is love. The rest...I'm just not there yet and not sure I ever will be.
Anyway...
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone had anything similar?
I don't even know what response(s) I'm expecting or why I've even shared this.
Some would say my grandad was 'just dying' and that was 'just his dying mind'...But 'Jesus'??? - Grandad wasn't even religious. In fact that was the only time I'd ever heard him mention Jesus (though weeks before he died he used to say things like: 'God will decide when my time is') (and things like that).
...Where did 'Jesus' come from all of a sudden?
Some would say he was just dying and 'seeing things'. But why then did he see his 'mother and father' of all people whom he hadn't seen for many years and whom had long since died... It just doesn't make sense.
It's difficult for me to get to grips with this. I'm delicate about the whole thing.
I've shared a very personal thing here, I'd appreciate people to be 'gentle' in their responses to me as much as they can. :Pray:
Sorry for the 'book' I've just written. Thanks for reading.
Jesusis the HEADof every man. On the cross of suffering death[as your Grandfather was] He told the man'you shall be with me in
paradise."paradise is a garden.the little children were partakers of flesh and blood,so He likewise partook[your grandpa also a partaker of
flesh and blood. Since Jesus IS the resurrection..and ALL shall hear His voice and come forth from the grave[ourbody undergoing
thisdeath]I personally see merit in this. Jesus can appear unto anybody He wants to at anytime,forany purpose[inline with the Father's
will..
Lordof the deadandtheliving..onthat crossthe old manof sin in rebellion..remainedrebellious still....unto death onone sideof Jesus.....on
the other side the new man of faith and hope confessing his past coarse request to be rememberd..andJesus assuredHim Hewould.
Because of my nursing background I know of similar expierences as you have shared.Moses knew when it was his time,as did Enoch and
Ezekiel and Jesus of their rising.Whetheranyone'knows' or are aware,or are taken totally by surprise..isintheHandsof God,asHewills.
Yet, I also know this...satan will work counterfeit signs etc..to confuse the truth and understanding of man..andasJesus said,Forgive
them,they know NOT what they do. And also,becauseofthis Godtestified,'they know not their right handfrom their left" Twowittness's there
Jesus and the Father.Again,reinterating why God's love/grace and salvation of all must exceed man's ability to understand/comprehend.
If all men's salvation is based on their having perfect understanding and obedience.....we are lost .But, if by the grace and
deliverance from sin and disobedience by an Almighty powerful loving God and son, bent on delivering His people from the wicked one,
NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD SHOWN THROUGH CHRIST JESUS,OUR LORD. :2c:
I believe it is very likely your Grandad saw Jesus. Whether it was in a vision or whether he was transported somehow, as Paul said(sorta)-who knows.
As far as your point about time, I think it is possible. When we deal with this mystery of "what happens when you die" we have some real strong doctrinal opinions but imo the scriptures are not as clear as people like to assert from their points of view so- we dont kno for sure if your grandfather was having visions(of a future time when he would awaken to greet his parents who may have been believers) or what exactly he was experiencing.
I can tell you that when my son passed away, after ten days in a coma, I was taking a nap in my pick up when I was suddenly wide awake and felt a presence in the truck with me. Then I heard my sons voice. He said, "I gotta go", and was gone. I went up to his room and they informed me he had passed.
I think we get in trouble when we try to define spiritual experiences in natural terms. Sometimes we cannot kno if we are in the "valley of vision"(revelations and visions) or the "mount of transfiguration"(actual bridges across the veil) or the "valley of decision"(God interacting with us through life experience).
SO people see a vision of the lake of fire and assume it is eternal when maybe it is a vision/picture of the present torment of souls in this world. People have a vision of their loved ones coming to meet them- just before they fall asleep to awaken- as far as they know- in a moment in a twinkling of an eye.... yet its a moment that may bridge a thousand years in time, because for the Lord, a day is as a thousand years and a moment can be the meeting place of all time and history if it is the moment of His appearing.
Quote from: sheila on July 21, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
Jesusis the HEADof every man. On the cross of suffering death[as your Grandfather was] He told the man'you shall be with me in
paradise."paradise is a garden.the little children were partakers of flesh and blood,so He likewise partook[your grandpa also a partaker of
flesh and blood. Since Jesus IS the resurrection..and ALL shall hear His voice and come forth from the grave[ourbody undergoing
thisdeath]I personally see merit in this. Jesus can appear unto anybody He wants to at anytime,forany purpose[inline with the Father's
will..
Lordof the deadandtheliving..onthat crossthe old manof sin in rebellion..remainedrebellious still....unto death onone sideof Jesus.....on
the other side the new man of faith and hope confessing his past coarse request to be rememberd..andJesus assuredHim Hewould.
Because of my nursing background I know of similar expierences as you have shared.Moses knew when it was his time,as did Enoch and
Ezekiel and Jesus of their rising.Whetheranyone'knows' or are aware,or are taken totally by surprise..isintheHandsof God,asHewills.
Yet, I also know this...satan will work counterfeit signs etc..to confuse the truth and understanding of man..andasJesus said,Forgive
them,they know NOT what they do. And also,becauseofthis Godtestified,'they know not their right handfrom their left" Twowittness's there
Jesus and the Father.Again,reinterating why God's love/grace and salvation of all must exceed man's ability to understand/comprehend.
If all men's salvation is based on their having perfect understanding and obedience.....we are lost .But, if by the grace and
deliverance from sin and disobedience by an Almighty powerful loving God and son, bent on delivering His people from the wicked one,
NOTHING CAN SEPERATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD SHOWN THROUGH CHRIST JESUS,OUR LORD. :2c:
Thank you for your reply Sheila, it means a lot to me.
Quote from: eaglesway on July 21, 2018, 04:57:39 PM
I believe it is very likely your Grandad saw Jesus. Whether it was in a vision or whether he was transported somehow, as Paul said(sorta)-who knows.
As far as your point about time, I think it is possible. When we deal with this mystery of "what happens when you die" we have some real strong doctrinal opinions but imo the scriptures are not as clear as people like to assert from their points of view so- we dont kno for sure if your grandfather was having visions(of a future time when he would awaken to greet his parents who may have been believers) or what exactly he was experiencing.
I can tell you that when my son passed away, after ten days in a coma, I was taking a nap in my pick up when I was suddenly wide awake and felt a presence in the truck with me. Then I heard my sons voice. He said, "I gotta go", and was gone. I went up to his room and they informed me he had passed.
I think we get in trouble when we try to define spiritual experiences in natural terms. Sometimes we cannot kno if we are in the "valley of vision"(revelations and visions) or the "mount of transfiguration"(actual bridges across the veil) or the "valley of decision"(God interacting with us through life experience).
SO people see a vision of the lake of fire and assume it is eternal when maybe it is a vision/picture of the present torment of souls in this world. People have a vision of their loved ones coming to meet them- just before they fall asleep to awaken- as far as they know- in a moment in a twinkling of an eye.... yet its a moment that may bridge a thousand years in time, because for the Lord, a day is as a thousand years and a moment can be the meeting place of all time and history if it is the moment of His appearing.
Eaglesway thanks for replying, it means a lot to me to hear back from others on this.
Thank you for sharing your sons' story.
Before my other grandad passed away (he was also my best friend in this world) I 'knew' he was dead. I was standing at my fireplace, messing around in front of my flatmate having a laugh when I just 'felt' my grandad go right through me.
It was like "Hi Marc See ya later"...Whooosh and he was off.
I suddenly stopped 'having a laugh' and my flatmate asked what was wrong all of a sudden.
I said: "My grandad...He's dead".
Just then the door knocked and it was my brother and cousin (with the bad news). I said (before they spoke).
"It's ok...I already know".
I swear to God on my life right now that's true as is my story of my other Grandad.
...I don't know what's going on...What a strange world...Just when you 'think' your making some sense of things...
Anyway...I'm greatful for these experiences...Though they confuse me somewhat.
I'm trying to make sense of these experiences (and I've had many others besides) so thank you for helping me with that.
Many years ago, my daughter, Roseann, was born with a serious heart defect. She passed away at 11 days old. It was a heart-wrenching journey, as the doctors misdiagnosed her, which left me to try to put the puzzle together of why she was behaving the way she was.
She was a beautiful little girl, who held my finger when she ate, and smiled from her second or third day of life. I look back now and believe that was a gift from God, knowing what was about to occur. He gave my those memories to hold on to.
My delivery for her was a natural one. Everyone was surprised at how well it went. For several days, though I suspected something was wrong, I had no concrete reason to think there was any serious problem. But, from the day of her birth, I had a recurring sentence run through my mind, especially when I prayed. The thought was this, verbatim: "I will be with you in the good times, as well as the bad."
I believe that was God's way of preparing me for what was to come. And, it did, actually. I would ask Him, what did He mean? I would wonder what the bad time was going to be. Or, if it was just my own thoughts.
Some young nurses in training had an assignment to do, to interview mothers, a few days after they had given birth. I had given my permission for them to come to my house, to do so. I shared with them some of my thoughts on motherhood, and interwove my faith into my discussion.
She died a short time after a surgery to correct her malformed aorta. I knew she was gone when a young, female doctor ran out of her operating room, crying. The thoughts I was having became crystal clear. I witnessed to her team of doctors the day she died, who were mostly non-Christians, of God's unending love, even in the face of the deepest sorrow. I was able to do this, because God had prepared me.
We serve an awesome God, who walks with us, through the 'valley of the shadow of death', and lets us know that He is near.
He tells us that He is near to the broken hearted...that He is our rock and our fortress....that He has counted every hair on our head.
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on July 22, 2018, 04:28:55 AM
Many years ago, my daughter, Roseann, was born with a serious heart defect. She passed away at 11 days old. It was a heart-wrenching journey, as the doctors misdiagnosed her, which left me to try to put the puzzle together of why she was behaving the way she was.
She was a beautiful little girl, who held my finger when she ate, and smiled from her second or third day of life. I look back now and believe that was a gift from God, knowing what was about to occur. He gave my those memories to hold on to.
My delivery for her was a natural one. Everyone was surprised at how well it went. For several days, though I suspected something was wrong, I had no concrete reason to think there was any serious problem. But, from the day of her birth, I had a recurring sentence run through my mind, especially when I prayed. The thought was this, verbatim: "I will be with you in the good times, as well as the bad."
I believe that was God's way of preparing me for what was to come. And, it did, actually. I would ask Him, what did He mean? I would wonder what the bad time was going to be. Or, if it was just my own thoughts.
Some young nurses in training had an assignment to do, to interview mothers, a few days after they had given birth. I had given my permission for them to come to my house, to do so. I shared with them some of my thoughts on motherhood, and interwove my faith into my discussion.
She died a short time after a surgery to correct her malformed aorta. I knew she was gone when a young, female doctor ran out of her operating room, crying. The thoughts I was having became crystal clear. I witnessed to her team of doctors the day she died, who were mostly non-Christians, of God's unending love, even in the face of the deepest sorrow. I was able to do this, because God had prepared me.
We serve an awesome God, who walks with us, through the 'valley of the shadow of death', and lets us know that He is near.
He tells us that He is near to the broken hearted...that He is our rock and our fortress....that He has counted every hair on our head.
D.
Well...You made me cry too.
Another thing I don't understand also is why some people die young (some only hours or days) and others have a long life to get through full of experiences and 'pruning' and lessons to be learned and so on.
Each of us have our own obstacles to overcome, our own path that God has laid out, and our own heart for God to know.
Proverbs 16:9
A person's heart plans his way, but the Lord determines his steps.
D.