The world war 2 holocaust was the most heavly document and sad truth of the 6 million jews death from the germany Nazi
However, there are increasing number of people around the world starting to doubt holocaust ever happen, when I heard this, it make me angry!
If you don't believe me, ask around some people, some of them have "doubt" thinking the jews lied about it because of "zionist"
Come on!
maybe people are getting sick of the holocaust stories as it only singles out a minority of people who suffered under the nazis and these very same people are doing the same as the nazis did to other people?
for instance...why is the death of 6 million jews more important than the death of 16 million russians which were killed in wwII ?
when mention is made of the jewish holocaust...they exclude the gypsies, disabled and many other "unwanted" who died with them?
why do we go back in time to wwII all the time when other holocausts have happened since?
6 million vietnames killed...millions of koreans...thousands of tootsies slaughtered in rwanda...a million iraqis killed and 4 million left to be refugees...hundreds of people dying dayly in afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, somalia, gaza and now yemen
is the injustice done to these people to a lesser degree? how many does a holocaust make?
Quote from: noname on January 07, 2010, 09:15:37 AM
maybe people are getting sick of the holocaust stories as it only singles out a minority of people who suffered under the nazis and these very same people are doing the same as the nazis did to other people?
for instance...why is the death of 6 million jews more important than the death of 16 million russians which were killed in wwII ?
when mention is made of the jewish holocaust...they exclude the gypsies, disabled and many other "unwanted" who died with them?
why do we go back in time to wwII all the time when other holocausts have happened since?
6 million vietnames killed...millions of koreans...thousands of tootsies slaughtered in rwanda...a million iraqis killed and 4 million left to be refugees...hundreds of people dying dayly in afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, somalia, gaza and now yemen
is the injustice done to these people to a lesser degree? how many does a holocaust make?
No, that not what I meant, What I am talking about is people starting to believe the holocaust never existed.
I don't know how they can deny it- the Nazis didn't exactly cover up their atrocities.
hi there,
This subject is close to my heart as i love the Jewish people and my husband is a Jew. I know that Jews are not perfect like any other people.
The point is noname is that although millions of people have been killed over the years, i don't think any race have been forced to live in ghettos being prepared for slaughter and the fact that Jews were killed BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS, nothing more. Not because they were feeble or considered unworthy of life or in the way, but because of their religion and race. Even if you were a productive member of society it didn't matter and i don't think any other race have had 'laws' against them such as the Nuremberg laws, such as having to wear an identifying mark.
i know most 'unworthy' people were singled out but i feel not like the Jews were as an ideology of a cruel government.
Godbless
Nancy
Just the devil at work again.
If thou eat of the tree...
If thou be the Son of God...
If the Holocaust never happened... (paraphrased)
One would think he would come up with something new.
BUT — history will repeat itself if forgotten, especially by the masses. So — lest us never forget.
This lie is probably birthing now because many, if not most, of the WWII Vets who were eyewitness to the atrocities have passed away. So, now, the lie, the IF, rears again its ugly head.
Just like Herod tried to kill the Word, the devil knows that he can bring ourselves to kill ourselves, potentially killing the Word of God in us.
War, murder, suicide, abortion all have the same purpose.
To silence the Word of God in man.
Behold!
Joseph is with the Child!
Quote from: Nancy on February 03, 2010, 11:34:35 PM
The point is noname is that although millions of people have been killed over the years, i don't think any race have been forced to live in ghettos being prepared for slaughter and the fact that Jews were killed BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS, nothing more. Not because they were feeble or considered unworthy of life or in the way, but because of their religion and race.
Hi Nancy,
if your hubby is a Jew, then you would know that being a Jew does not necessarily have anything to do with race...but religion...you can just have a look at Israel today (the "Jewish state") and will see that Jews are not just caucasian, but also africans, indians, arabs, etc
as for living in ghettos and being persecuted just because you're of a certain people...you should do a study on Gaza...you should do a study on Iraq...even before these modern atrocities you can go back as far as the 1900s and study the British empire's war on South Africa...look up "concentration camps" and "scorched earth" policy...compare the photos of dying children with those of Auschwitch...no difference
the point I was trying to illustrate is that it is not only the Jews who can claim persecution and/or a holocaust...there are many peoples all over the world who have been crushed, put into ghettos, whole nations almost annihilated
PS for what its worth, I'm from Jewish ancestry myself...so I understand more than you might think
Noname, the topic of the thread is concerning the denial of the Jewish holocaust as if it never happened. I do not see the OP point being about it being the "only" world tragedy nor is it trying to prop it up as the only one with any significance.
As far as I am concerned what happened in Rwanda is a holocaust, and why when someone talks about the UN peacekeepers I can't take it seriously. However, what is the point when the thread topic is not about Rwanda now is it?
Someone being tired of the attention it gets is no excuse. Trying to pin a number to what actually constitutes a holocaust is moot Do you believe it happened or do you deny it?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on February 04, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
Noname, the topic of the thread is concerning the denial of the Jewish holocaust as if it never happened. I do not see the OP point being about it being the "only" world tragedy nor is it trying to prop it up as the only one with any significance.
As far as I am concerned what happened in Rwanda is a holocaust, and why when someone talks about the UN peacekeepers I can't take it seriously. However, what is the point when the thread topic is not about Rwanda now is it?
Someone being tired of the attention it gets is no excuse. Trying to pin a number to what actually constitutes a holocaust is moot Do you believe it happened or do you deny it?
Paul,
I understand the point...Nancy was addressing me directly so I answered her directly...
I do not deny the holocaust, but I also do not like the idea that it has been used to create a state in someone else's land...or that it is used to install guilt in others...many that are denying it I think have been denied their own sufferings...so maybe its something like..."if you won't acknowledge our suffering, we deny yours too"...
Quote from: noname on February 04, 2010, 04:44:45 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on February 04, 2010, 04:10:21 PM
Noname, the topic of the thread is concerning the denial of the Jewish holocaust as if it never happened. I do not see the OP point being about it being the "only" world tragedy nor is it trying to prop it up as the only one with any significance.
As far as I am concerned what happened in Rwanda is a holocaust, and why when someone talks about the UN peacekeepers I can't take it seriously. However, what is the point when the thread topic is not about Rwanda now is it?
Someone being tired of the attention it gets is no excuse. Trying to pin a number to what actually constitutes a holocaust is moot Do you believe it happened or do you deny it?
Paul,
I understand the point...Nancy was addressing me directly so I answered her directly...
I do not deny the holocaust, but I also do not like the idea that it has been used to create a state in someone else's land...or that it is used to install guilt in others...many that are denying it I think have been denied their own sufferings...so maybe its something like..."if you won't acknowledge our suffering, we deny yours too"...
Israel existed before the holocaust. Who's sufferings have been denied among those who have made the idea that it didn't happen something to actually consider?
hi there,
Noname,
I feel that Israelis have been trying for peace especially when Yassa Arafat was alive and he seemed to have put a kybosh on it all the time.
I think that the arabs would only be satisfied if Israelis were pushed into the sea, as they say. I'm sorry if that sounds racist but i don't feel that the ideology of the palestinians is for peace. Maybe the people but certainly not the leaders. I'm not saying Israelis or Jews are perfect people but then who are.
Godbless
Nancy
Quote from: Nancy on February 05, 2010, 11:58:59 PM
hi there,
Noname,
I feel that Israelis have been trying for peace especially when Yassa Arafat was alive and he seemed to have put a kybosh on it all the time.
I think that the arabs would only be satisfied if Israelis were pushed into the sea, as they say. I'm sorry if that sounds racist but i don't feel that the ideology of the palestinians is for peace. Maybe the people but certainly not the leaders. I'm not saying Israelis or Jews are perfect people but then who are.
Godbless
Nancy
Nancy,
what would you do when China invades America tomorrow and confiscate all your land? what would you do when they bulldoze your house, put a wall around your city, cut off the water to your town, put up guard posts everywhere, refuse trucks with aid to come in...and then break a brokered seize fire and bomb the enclosed city...raining down phosphorous bombs unto a civilian population?
this is exactly what the Israelis have done...and still they steal more land from the Palestinians every day...do you also realise that many of "the Arabs" are Christian...do you realise that Israel has not just destroyed mosques in gaza, they also bombed Christian churches...Christian universities?
maybe you should take a trip to Israel and Gaza (if the Isarelis would let you in) and see these things for yourself...you have a very biased and unrealistic view of things...
Quote from: noname on February 08, 2010, 09:08:18 AM
Nancy,
what would you do when China invades America tomorrow and confiscate all your land?
That's not an accurate comparison. The Chinese have never lived here. The same cannot be said of the Jews and where modern day Israel is. They lived there for over a thousand years.
Quotewhat would you do when they bulldoze your house, put a wall around your city, cut off the water to your town, put up guard posts everywhere, refuse trucks with aid to come in...and then break a brokered seize fire and bomb the enclosed city...raining down phosphorous bombs unto a civilian population?
this is exactly what the Israelis have done
I'm sure that Israel isn't perfect but their enemies aren't exactly innocent either. Suicide bombers are notorious for targeting civilians. This conflict has been going on for a long time so to blame Israel and Israel alone also shows a very biased and unrealistic view of things.
hi there again,
Correct if i'm wrong but didn't the first Jews who started to migrate there buy some land off of the Arabs first and started kibbuttzis?
I feel that at the end of the day Jews needed a state of their own because of all the persecution. I'm not saying that the Israelis are perfect but correct if i'm wrong again but i read that during the 2nd world war, Arabs helped Hitler and agreed with his policies of ethnically cleansing the Jews.
If this is true maybe they are receiving their karma.
Godbless
Nancy
Quote from: Nancy on February 13, 2010, 12:14:52 AM
hi there again,
Correct if i'm wrong but didn't the first Jews who started to migrate there buy some land off of the Arabs first and started kibbuttzis?
I feel that at the end of the day Jews needed a state of their own because of all the persecution. I'm not saying that the Israelis are perfect but correct if i'm wrong again but i read that during the 2nd world war, Arabs helped Hitler and agreed with his policies of ethnically cleansing the Jews.
If this is true maybe they are receiving their karma.
Godbless
Nancy
Hi Nancy,
Modern Israel was "started" by the Irgun terrorists who bombed the King David hotel when Palestine was still under British control.
Subsequently, they started making war on the Palestinian people too...taking their land by force...people claiming to be Jews...
there are several peoples calling themselves Jews today...those of the tribe of Judah, descendants of Esau (Edom) who was brought into Jewry in 126AD when they were conquered, and those of the previous Kazarian empire who converted to Judaism...so in fact, there are three different peoples claiming to be Jews....there are also modern converts from all nations claiming to be Jews...africans, indians, etc...so there are numerous people who are not even from a Semite origin claiming to be Jews
do we now remove all Palestinians who have been living there for centuries and are also blood relatives of the jews and other former tribes of israel...to now make space for anyone in the world calling themself a jew? is it right to take their land, bulldoze their house, burn their orchards just so that settlers from foreign countries can have a home?
was it the Palestinians who drove Israel out of their land? no...it was the romans...the assyrians...the babylonians...the poor jews left behind and those of mixed blood which no-one wanted...became the modern day palestinians...to call everyone "Arab" is too simplistic a statement
it has been proven by dna analysis that modern palestinians in lots of cases are more jew (ie semite) according to bloodline than some of those claiming to be semitic jews...
if we take this further to a Biblical standpoint, surely you must know that God promised to bring back Israel into the land NOT by force, but only AFTER the Messiah has come...the current move in israel to establish a state by force thus goes against the Torah and prophets...
the Zionists are breaking every biblical law of the OT and goes against all declarations of the prophets
There are millions of Torah believing Jews all over the world not agreeing with what is going on there...
the Zionists are usurping the throne of David...but the Bible has even predicted this that Esau (those who claim they are Jews but are not) would try to take the birthright back from Jacob/Israel...see isaiah...he calls it the "controversy of Zion"
it has even been predicted as far as Genesis:
Gen. 27:40,
"and it shall come to pass when thou [Esau] shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his [Jacob's] yoke from off thy neck."
The Zionists also goes against the new covenant where a Jew is one only who submits to the King of the Jews (ie Jesus)...which very few are actually doing
1 John 2:23 says,
"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."
Jesus also tells us in Revelation that here would be people calling themselves Jews but they're not:
Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
pretty strong statements from a Jew himself, don't you think?
To understand who is a Jew and an Isarelite in the eyes of God ie according to the old and new covenants and what has historically happened in Israel/Palestine, please read the following by Dr. Steven Jones of God's Kingdom Ministries...they are fascinating reads which will enlighten everyone who reads it:
Who is a Jew?http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96 (http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=96)
Who is an Israelite?http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=97 (http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=97)
PS please read the above as I'd like to take this topic further with you...we must learn where God is on all of these things, not man, to truly understand and ensure that justice comes to all people who have been wronged
hi there,
You are probably right and i agree with you that nothing should be taken by force, land, rights, whatever.
I don't condone bad treatment of anyone but hey what would you have me do?!!! I am not going to get into an argument that can never be solved by this world's madness. We can only (with God's help) heal ourselves not others and especially not the world's mania!
I don't care who is a Jew or who isn't, we are all people.
But as i say you cannot argue with people who think they are right.
God bless
Nancy
Yar right Nancy :laughing7:
:cloud9: The ones calling themselves Jews that are not, according to the spiritual definition, are no worse than those of the New Covenant who claim to have the circumcision of their hearts accomplished already, and do not.
The body can only do what it sees it's head do, and those of the inner court realm, spiritually speaking, are supposed to be pressing in for this inner circumcision of the heart, so that those who don't have it can see it. This is a spiritual principle and cannot be broken.
Therefore judging those "outside the camp" such as the natural Jews, without the circumcision of our own hearts being manifested, is placing ourselves in line for judgment, for as we judge the same measure is meted out to us.
The reason being, to judge by sight itself alone, means the thing is in our heart else the "feet" (those in the natural realm like the Jews) wouldn't be doing outwardly what they perceive their "head" doing inwardly (in their hearts).
The only antidote to this "snakebite" we all have is to perceive Him high and lifted up, that we might be changed in the twinkling of an eye, so that our "feet" (those still walking in the dust realm of natural man) are washed by the washing of the Word as well. Come, Lord, come. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on February 19, 2010, 01:48:43 AM
:cloud9: The ones calling themselves Jews that are not, according to the spiritual definition, are no worse than those of the New Covenant who claim to have the circumcision of their hearts accomplished already, and do not.
I do not think that Jesus was referring to a "spiritual definition" when saying that there are Jews who are not...He was referring to people trying to elevate themselves as being "chosen" by bloodline or by religion, as modern Israelis like to do...
the "circumcision of the heart" thing was stated by Paul...not, Jesus
QuoteTherefore judging those "outside the camp" such as the natural Jews, without the circumcision of our own hearts being manifested, is placing ourselves in line for judgment, for as we judge the same measure is meted out to us.
those clinging onto the old covenant, would be judged by it...same goes for Jew or Christian
Quote from: Nancy on February 19, 2010, 12:02:37 AM
hi there,
You are probably right and i agree with you that nothing should be taken by force, land, rights, whatever.
I don't condone bad treatment of anyone but hey what would you have me do?!!! I am not going to get into an argument that can never be solved by this world's madness. We can only (with God's help) heal ourselves not others and especially not the world's mania!
I don't care who is a Jew or who isn't, we are all people.
But as i say you cannot argue with people who think they are right.
God bless
Nancy
i'm also not interested in an argument Nancy...but there is a huge blindness on the part of some Christians thinking that there are seperate paths to salvation for Jew and Christian...hence my request to read the info provided and get your opinion on that...