Mat 24:34

[micah7:9]

Mat 24:34  Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.

What generation is Jesus speaking of?
Is it the people He is talking to now or?

Thanks

[CHB]

Hi Micah,

I think Jesus own words explains which generation he was referring to.
Not many want to take Jesus at his word though.

CHB

[micah7:9]

Thanks. So it was that generation.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: How could it be? Verse 21 says it will be the worst time in all of history. It wasn't. The Jews as a nation were supposed to return to Messiah, as prophesied in Zechariah. They didn't. All the armies of the world were supposed to come against Israel. They didn't, just the Roman one did.

Nero was supposed to be the antichrist according to full preterist view. He is supposed to be destroyed by the King of kings, he wasn't, he committed suicide. He was supposed to make a covenant with Israel (Dan. 9:26-2), he didn't. He died in 68 before the destruction of the temple even took place.

While SOME prophecy was fulfilled, not all of it was, as those that hold to this view, believe. My  :2c:Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

Nero  :pointlaugh:

[Beloved Servant]

I can't thank the LORD enough for not dragging me through the Protestant religion.

[micah7:9]

I can't thank the LORD enough for not dragging me through the Protestant religion.

Some of us had parents who thought it was the thing to do.

[micah7:9]

I believe its this generation. My  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

I believe its this generation. My  :2c:

The most spoken quote ever...

[Nathan]

Here we are again.  I sense sometimes we take things out of their context in order to support our personal opinions rather than letting Scripture remain entact and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal the most effective application for us, 2000 years removed.

I did a quick search on "this generation" in Scripture and I've found it to be referred to 19 times.  To those who feel Matt. 24 is referring to any other generation but "that" one Jesus was in 2000 years ago, my challenge to you is this . . .if you can also say that in all 18 of the other times the phrase is used, that all of those times are really referring to this generation we're in just like you're doing with "one" text in Matthew 24, then you may have an argument. 

If not, then, I'm not a big fan of using this term as it comes off as accusational and I don't want to be the judge of what's right and what's wrong, my personal vision is not about right or wrong, but about becoming "one" in the Father.  Having said that, the term "cherry picking" does seem to fit in this scenario.  If it doesn't fit with all 19 references, then I can't see how we can say "one" applies and another does not when Scripture seems to strongly indicate it was "that" generation that Jesus was calling out.

Genesis 7:1
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Psalm 12:7
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalm 71:18
Now also when I am old and greyheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come.

Psalm 95:10
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:

Matthew 11:16
But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Matthew 12:42
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Who was this person greater than Solomon that Jesus was referring to?  Was it not he himself?  And "when" was this taking place?  Was it not to "that" generation? 

Matthew 23:36
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I believe these two are linked together in the same context because Matthew 24 is simply recorded actions that are a continuance from what went on in chapter 23 where Jesus proclaimed the woes upon the religious church.  Two times he made it as clear as one could that things were coming to "that" generation that would horrify the nation of that day and all days following.

Mark 8:12
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.

Mark 13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Luke 7:31
And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

Luke 11:30
For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Luke 11:31
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

Luke 11:32
The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Luke 11:51
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Luke 17:25
But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Luke 21:32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

I guess my question is . . .if Jesus was really intending on these events of Matthew 24 unfolding on another generation, why then would he twice, elude to them happening to "that" generation.  Why didn't he just do what the angel did with Daniel and tell them that these things were for another time?  Unless they 'weren't" for another time. 

I've made the argument years ago and I'm hearing it now as well . . ."but he says that this is so bad that they've never seen things so unimaginable before and they'll never see them that bad ever again . . . which many will then refer to the events happening with the holacaust in how badly things were then.

But what if what Jesus was talking about was not about just the perils of destroying flesh . . .what if what he was talking about were the results of what happens when a nation rejects redemption for it's religious identity instead?  Perhaps he's saying never again would a judgment as with what happened in 70 A.D. would ever happen again due to spiritual rejection. 

There may be terrible destruction and horrific torture, but not because of a nations rejection of God's redemption.

[micah7:9]

Mat 24:32  `And from the fig-tree learn ye the simile: When already its branch may have become tender, and the leaves it may put forth, ye know that summer is nigh,

Mat 24:33  so also ye, when ye may see all these, ye know that it is nigh--at the doors.

Mat 24:34  Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.

Is Jesus talking about the generation of 24:4-31 or is He speaking of this generation 24:32-33?

I believe it is the later.   :2c:

[Nathan]

For me, they are both eluding to the same event.  Neither of which is for a generation 2000 years removed.  Can anyone who bases their opinion on Scripture point to the passage that ever says ANY of these things are for a later time?  As I mentioned before, Scripture already expressed things that were coming to later generations were explicitly explained in that manner.  We were told that things were coming later and that the one receiving the message was to do nothing and not worry about knowing all the details because it wasn't going to all unfold until hundreds of years later (Daniel).

So "if" Scripture clearly states that things that were to happen weren't for that generation in on passage, why would we think that Scripture wouldn't also do the same in any other passages?  There is no indication in Matthew 23 and 24 where the events foretold were to happen at a later time.

Mans doctrine is what's being protected here by trying to say it's for another generation.  (my opinion only) Scripture is clearly stating that it's not for another, it's for those who were within earshot of the things being said in "that" day.  If the Scripture isn't saying it, and you're one who bases your identity on what Scripture does say, then you "have" to be consistant with what is and what isn't being said don't you?

Where does it ever indicate it's for any other time, for any other generation, for any other era other than "that" one?  Look at it this way . . if it "was" to be for that generation, how do you propose Jesus would have said it?  What could he have said that would have made it any more distinctly clear that it was coming to them then?  For me, the answer is, nothing.  He couldn't have made it any more clearer than he already did.

Do you see anywhere in those passages where those who heard this message let out a sigh of relief because they understood this to be for another generation?

What of "this" passage then?
15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Those that believe these things are for "my" generation also see these things happening to the entire world.  Ever see any indication in these passages where Jesus is eluding to the whole world?  If it's to the whole world then why does he only mention Judea?  Why does he not "say" the whole world is in for unimaginable destruction?  Why is he only confining it to "that" region?

This isn't about a political war coming, this is about a spiritual uprooting.  Israel was about to lose her total identity.  Never again would she ever be the great nation she once was.  Never again would an entire nation honor Sabbath law as they did with the Old Covenant.  The destruction coming was going to be so thorough as never before and never again. 

Before, when they had wars and the enemy burned down their citites and destroyed their temples, they were able to rebuild.  But not this time.  That's why I stated I think this is more about a spiritual identity than it was a natural torture and destruction.  We measure the horror by body counts and extensive pain.  God measures by manifesting his identity and nature with us.  He removed it from that generation and Israel has never been the same since.

This is all irrelevant anyway.  It's not about what's going on in the natural that we need to emphasize and focus on.  It's the spiritual principles that lie beneath that feeds our souls and gives us nourishment to mature in Him.  But if we're off track on the elementary levels of understanding, it's extremely difficult to expect to be on track in the deeper things of God as well. 

[Beloved Servant]

Give us this day LORD our daily bread.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Nathan, I'm not saying things didn't happen in that generation, obviously they did. I'm saying all is not finished, period.

But unlike the full preterist view, I don't believe: all is done, the resurrection is past already, He's already come in the only way He's going to, Pentecost was for then only, all the books were written before the destruction of the temple, almost none of it applies to us, because they were talking to the Jews, ect.

It's a view of no hope for anything, because everything is already done, IMO.

Also, do you see any of what happened 70AD as being a spiritual application, a type and a shadow? Blessings...

[Nathan]

Oh absolutely.  But that wasn't from where I was coming from when I posted all of that.  I believe all has been accomplished that's necessary for natural men to receive spiritual redemption.  But spiritually?  That's a whole other thing.  I think EVERYTHING is to be spiritually applied. 

I believe that's what the book of Revelation is all about for "this" generation.  I beleive there is an Egypt, a Babylon, a harlot, a dragon, a bottomless pit, all of that is carnality "in" me coming to it's destruction.  My Euphrates river (literally means fruitfulness) must dry up in preparation for the entry of the kings of the east, we are all priests and kings . . .the east speaks of resurrection, the rising of the sun . . .all of us must first experience our rivers of fruitfulness to dry up . . .to all who are "thirsty".  In order to be thirsty, you have to come through dryness . . .

Yeah . .it's all spiritually applied now.  Walking in the spirit of truth transforms my desire for his morality which transcends all inward powers for the purpose of manifesting the glory of the Father through the sons of men.

[thinktank]

I agree Cardinal.


But concerning this scripture
Luke 11:31
The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

during the time of Solomon the queen of the south, must be the queen of Sheba, 1kings 10, which was a long time ago, but Jesus says here, men of this generation.

So maybe he means that/this this/that generation, this generation being the generation that Jesus is thinking about in his head, so he might be thinking about Solomon and queen of Egypt and then say the men of this generation. So maybe that what he's doing with the end time generation, in that hes thinking about them in his head when he speaks this generation. I hope that makes sense.  :2c:

[Nathan]

 :umnick: :scratchhead:

[micah7:9]

I made a mistake in my post sorry i deleted it.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi brother N... :hithere:

Oh absolutely.  But that wasn't from where I was coming from when I posted all of that.  I believe all has been accomplished that's necessary for natural men to receive spiritual redemption.  But spiritually?  That's a whole other thing.  I think EVERYTHING is to be spiritually applied. 

I believe that's what the book of Revelation is all about for "this" generation.  I beleive there is an Egypt, a Babylon, a harlot, a dragon, a bottomless pit, all of that is carnality "in" me coming to it's destruction.  My Euphrates river (literally means fruitfulness) must dry up in preparation for the entry of the kings of the east, we are all priests and kings . . .the east speaks of resurrection, the rising of the sun . . .all of us must first experience our rivers of fruitfulness to dry up . . .to all who are "thirsty".  In order to be thirsty, you have to come through dryness . . .

Yeah . .it's all spiritually applied now.  Walking in the spirit of truth transforms my desire for his morality which transcends all inward powers for the purpose of manifesting the glory of the Father through the sons of men.

I have really enjoyed your posts in this thread bro... I have the same viewpoint, even though I do not even know what the "preterist" view actually is... I only know that the book of the "REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST", has to do with the REVEALING of the WORD of GOD, which... as I see it... has to do with ALL of us, in ALL MOMENTS of time... 

Every single point of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST is pointed toward EACH INDIVIDUAL... for it is the WORD "revealed"...

ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God and IS PROFITABLE... for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in Righteousness -- 2 Tim 3:16 --  What value (profit) to the generation to which CHRIST spoke the wordings of this text, if it indeed was pointing to circumstances which did not concern them, but were projected to those in the FAR DISTANT FUTURE?  What "reproof" is found in it so far removed?  What instruction in Righteousness?

What "profit" is gained by the generation CHRIST was actually instructing, can be found in PROPHETIC visions thousands of years removed? :dunno:  Which had no application to those to whom He actually spoke?  Just doesn't make sense to me.

If God told me that MEN would turn into "half robots" 2K years from now, ...in what way would that profit or affect, the listeners of today, if they were informed of this?

Would anybody even give it a 2nd thought?  Or would it just go in one "ear" - then out the other?

REASON must be attached to any vision we might have of the pertinence of Scripture, otherwise, it is UNREASONABLE. 

If a view of any given thing, is completely disassociated with the generation being "taught"... what learning/profit, can be gained by that generation in the conveyance of that vision?  :dontknow:

One thing to keep in mind... JESUS is the SAME... at all moments of time.  So the WORD ...IS... profitable at ALL TIMES to ALL which give EAR to It, ...or It is not "PROFITABLE" at all.  :sigh:

...willieH   :cloud9:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I agree Willie and Nathan......exactly. And as you said Willie, it applies to all of us in all moments of time. He worded it differently to me when I first came to Him, but the gist of it is the same.

He said for something to be spiritual truth, it has to be eternal, and applicable to men, spiritually, regardless of the fabric of time. So that SPIRITUALLY, it applies to a 1st century person as well as a 21st century person. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

Neither Preterists nor Futurists seem to understand this.  Some things prophesied in Matt. 24 and 25 were to take place in the near future, in THAT generation.  Jesus was crucified somewhere in the 30's AD and Jerusalem was indeed destroyed by 70 AD.

However, when Jesus said that "THIS generation" in Matt. 24:34, He did not mean "THAT generation" living at that time.  Notice the words a few verses before:  "So likewise ye [whoever the 'ye' will be when these things happen], when ye shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that it is near, even at the doors" (Verse 33).

WHAT "all THESE things?" Why all the things that he mentioned leading up to this point. And included are the "Sign of the Son of man in heaven," and the resurrection and gathering of the saints, etc. (Verse 30). Now THAT did not happen back in the first century AD.  It is yet future. But the future generation who sees "ALL these things," that generation living at THAT time, shall not pass untill all these things be fulfilled, including the coming of our Lord.
Consider your "this or that" argument. The word "This" in verse 34 is translated from the following Greek:


G3778

οὗτος, οὗτοι, αὕτη, αὕται

houtos houtoi hautē hautai

hoo'-tos, hoo'-toy, how'-tay, how'-tahee

And here is what Dr. Strong says it means: "...this or THAT..." ! As in "this or THAT generation."
Including the nominative masculine plural (second form), nominative feminine signular (third form), and the nominate feminine plural, (fourth form). From the article G3588 and G846; the he (she or it), that is, this or THAT (often with the article repeated): - he (it was that), hereof, it, she, such as, the same, these, they, this (man, same, woman), which, who. (LRS)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, but do you really think THIS is THAT?  :mrflo:

Sorry, couldn't resist.... :winkgrin:

[thinktank]

It's important to remember thaat before Jesus talks about these events, the disciples ask this important question.

what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So here the disciples are asking Jesus about the event s that happen the same time as the end of the world.

So Jesus in that respect, answers the question from the view of the end of the world and therefore is looking at that generation that exists during that period called "the end of the world"

[thinktank]

:cloud9: Yes, but do you really think THIS is THAT?  :mrflo:

Sorry, couldn't resist.... :winkgrin:

lol

[Nathan]

It's important to remember thaat before Jesus talks about these events, the disciples ask this important question.

what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So here the disciples are asking Jesus about the event s that happen the same time as the end of the world.

So Jesus in that respect, answers the question from the view of the end of the world and therefore is looking at that generation that exists during that period called "the end of the world"

Exactly how I see this as well.  Yet another reason why if I'm looking at this from a literal perspective, that I see these things mentioned here in Matthew 24, along with what Daniel saw in Daniel 9 I believe it was, and what's relayed in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, all these things have already transpired in the removal of the entire religious system which Israel embraced as their identity.

It really was like a shadow of Christ.  The closer the time came for Jesus to come, the more defined the shadow became.  When Jesus arrived, they'd become so entrenched in the shadow of the light, they didn't recognize the Light.  So that once light passed by, the shadow moved "with" the light, but yet they still tried to embrace that which was only a passing reality.

But once redemption and resurrection were established, the shadow was transformed and became one "in" the light.  Remember how in Genesis darkness was created?  It was divided "from" the light.  when Christ came, the balance of light and darkness became "one" all over again.  But they still tried to identify with the light by embracing the shadow of it's image.

Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever . . .he's an imovable person.  Ever watch a time-lapse video of any kind?  As time passes, the shadows move around their source while the objects that create the shadows remain constant.  The reason the shadows move is not because the object moves, but because the light is continuously changing it's position.  God, who is the Father of lights, is continuously advancing his kingdom "in" us.  Our image of who he is continually moves as his light advances upon us.  Our inward laws of discpline and doctrine "should" be flexible so that as the true Light of the Father advances toward us, our understanding of him is able to live and breathe.  It changes.  It matures.  It grows. 

I think this is very closely connected to the new wine and old wine skin principle.  God is advancing whether we accept it or deny it.  But in our denial, we risk the same destruction as an old wineskin . . as Israel showed us by embracing an old covenant.  Shadows have their place, but when the source arrives, I don't want to be the one still trying to embrace the shadow of who he is, I want the light in which there is no shadow of turning. <3