Literalness of the sacred scriptures

[fullarmor2]

For a while now I have been studying the theological perspective of the people who promote the Concordant Literal New Testament.  I noticed that they hold very literal understandings of scripture. And I will say that I like what they teach. It seems to be a very solid and scriptural theology.  I guess my question is,  how does anyone on the forum here determine what is literal or what is figurative or spiritual.   For example, in first Thessalonians chapter four, Concordant people say that this is a literal return of Jesus to snatch away the body of Christ.  But I've heard interpretations here that spiritualize these scriptures and saying it all ready happened or is happening or something.  So, is it just "to each their own" here or what? :happy3:

[Molly]

Unfortunately, 'to each his own,' is the state of the Christian religion in this age.

...and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.--Mat 24:11

Especially at the end of the age...

Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.



I do read the Bible literally myself [as much as possible] and I cling to a literal Jesus Christ.  But what mysteries we are privy to is really up to Him.

[WhiteWings]

I think there are several steps involved.

a] Find an accurate translation.
That's the starting point.
Missing/added verses obscure understanding.
Same for wrong translations.

b] Figure out what it means.
A good translation just gives the reader a headstart.
Idioms, culture and OT references are things a literal translation doesn't explain. It requires study.
While I still greatly prefer literal translations I think they are flawed too.
The Greek -> English translation is fine. But some words/tenses can't be translated correctly. Nothing to blame he translators but it's a problem.
I'm get more sure every day the NT at least partly was written in Hebrew. Meaning in depth (grammar) studies of the 'original' Greek are a waste of time. Simply because teh original used Hebrew grammar.
So imo the only correct translation will be:
Translate Greek --> Hebrew
Translate Hebrew --> English
That English translation needs lots of footnotes explaining how 1st century Jews understood a certain idiom.

I'm trying to use lexicons in such  away.
a] Pick an English word in the NT.
b] Look up the Greek word.
c] Find the Greek word in the LXX (OT)
d] Find the Hebrew word.
e] Look up the Hebrew word in a Hebrew lexicon.

We all know lexicons often give many word meanings. Sometimes even conflicting.
Word meaning can have changed over time. The Hebrew of Moses was diffrent from that of Jesus.

Assume a Greek word has the following meanings: A, B, E, G
The matching Hebrew word: A, B, C, D, F, H
I think that possibly narrows down the true meaning to A or B

[fullarmor2]

All we can do is just do the best we can I guess. I think I'm going to keep listening to Concordant's teachings. I downloaded a bunch of them so I can listen while driving my semi truck. The main thing is they got the salvation of all right, plus their New Testament is very good. I also noticed that they are big into dispensational teaching which I don't mind. I got this chart from them that shows the five ages, and the twelve administrations, its very neat and scripture based.
   One more thing I wanted to share. I discovered that Martin Zender and Dan Sheridan did a radio program for around a year or so on this message!  I downloaded over 100 programs and listened in my truck and let me tell you,  it was good!  Very informative and they were funny. But they got booted off the air! :sigh:   Anyway, I would recommend these to anyone interested in a very entertaining presentation of the basics of the Evangel. And they also go a little deeper here and there as well.
        http://www.salvationofall-av.org/indexEN/Sheridan/Sheridan.htm

[eaglesway]

I would say there are believers of several different perspectives as to what is literal and what is figurative and what is both and where the balances are. What we all agree on is that the scriptures teach the salvation of all. Any believer can find the salvation of all through even a literal reading of the bible- especially if they check the seeming contradictions in a greek lexicon or a literal translation such as Young's or the Concordant. The Concordant Literal translation is meant to be a direct translation from the original languages into modern english. "Literal" means direct translation of the words, it has no meaning towards whether the scriptures themselves are to be interpreted figuratively or not- it just means they tried to stay true to the original languages.  :2c:

[WhiteWings]

I agree EW.
Partly  :laughing7:

What exactly is a literal translation?
Should idioms be translated word by word?
I don't have an example but I know if I mechanically translate Dutch to English it:
- often is quite understandble (but I let you be the judge of that  :laughing7:)
- doesn't make any sense.
- means the opposite.

Imagine translating English to Greek. A cool guy and a hot girl.
I know translating idioms is a downward slope because if often will be abused to push doctrinal views.
I think a perfect translation is impossible.
Dare I say it... even God can't do it. It's not a matter or skill but the laguages are so different.


If 'you' don't like literal translations consider: The Christian Bible. Modern (1995) English that reads very well.
Personally I'm considering an electronic version of: This             Example
I'm especially fond of the notes/commentary because, as you should have guessed by now  :laughing7:, I think a translation greatly benefits from cultaral backgrounds.

[Sherman]

Many years ago the Lord challenged me with Prov. 3:5, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and rely not upon your own understanding."  At the time I was studying scripture concerning the baptism with the Spirit and was torn as to whether or not the manifestations of the Spirit were for today or not.  I came to a place where I had to trust God more than my own understanding.  Declaring my trust in Him his presence overwhelmed me and revealed to me what I sought. 

Anyhow, the long and short of it is that we need to trust the Lord and I trust Him to reveal to me truth as I need it.  I've come to accept that God and spirituality is far beyond my understanding, and I'm ok with that.  I still seek understanding and knowledge but it because I trust in God to reveal truth to me and I assume that I have much more to learn.  In fact, I often say that I'm likely 30% to 70% wrong in my beliefs, I just don't know which ones.  Trusting in the Lord frees me to learn and grow.

So trust in the Lord with all your heart and rely not upon your own understanding.
Blessings,
Sherman

[eaglesway]

Many years ago the Lord challenged me with Prov. 3:5, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and rely not upon your own understanding."  At the time I was studying scripture concerning the baptism with the Spirit and was torn as to whether or not the manifestations of the Spirit were for today or not.  I came to a place where I had to trust God more than my own understanding.  Declaring my trust in Him his presence overwhelmed me and revealed to me what I sought. 

Anyhow, the long and short of it is that we need to trust the Lord and I trust Him to reveal to me truth as I need it.  I've come to accept that God and spirituality is far beyond my understanding, and I'm ok with that.  I still seek understanding and knowledge but it because I trust in God to reveal truth to me and I assume that I have much more to learn.  In fact, I often say that I'm likely 30% to 70% wrong in my beliefs, I just don't know which ones.  Trusting in the Lord frees me to learn and grow.

So trust in the Lord with all your heart and rely not upon your own understanding.
Blessings,
Sherman

Beautiful, Edifying, So True.... :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Love this too Sherman , and ditto  with Eaglesway !!!Beautiful and true
   
Let the Lord  lead us all by His Holy Spirit of Truth  , I found what  I believe how God will do everything according to His will  , is according to faith  , 
but    Love never fails and always edifies everyone  all the time !   
I   will  share this what gave this week in my heart
as  the thankfulness poured out for His  mighty  power to save ,  was struggling so bad this past few weeks   with trying to love my enemies , as the Lord God is kind to His enemies ,    the carnal mind is an enmity against the SPIRIT ,  Jesus on that cross proved it in forgive  them Father for they know not what they do ...
and instead of looking around  at every ones sinful   nature  and examining mine own , its dawned on me to look to God   and SEE GOD  who has given us  Jesus Christ  and in ''all things '' are for His own  glory   and we are to glorify God  in ''all things ''  in heaven and earth as Jesus was sent and showed us exactly how to overcome   though Him   and did glorify  His Father  in ''all things ''     rev 21 5;7:  And He who sat on the Throne  said , Behold I make'' all things new ''  and He said to me  Write ; for these   words  are true and faithful   He  that overcomes''  shall inherit all things '' ; and I will be His God  and He shall be my son

Strongs  G 3956 -pas   including all forms of declension    1) individually   a) each ,  every , any , all , the whole  , everyone , all things , everything   2 ) collectively  a)  some of all types
and ''all things ''in the WORD OF GOD   if you look and check  them out , you will be so amazed !!

[eaglesway]

I agree EW.
Partly  :laughing7:

What exactly is a literal translation?
Should idioms be translated word by word?
I don't have an example but I know if I mechanically translate Dutch to English it:
- often is quite understandble (but I let you be the judge of that  :laughing7:)
- doesn't make any sense.
- means the opposite.

Imagine translating English to Greek. A cool guy and a hot girl.
I know translating idioms is a downward slope because if often will be abused to push doctrinal views.
I think a perfect translation is impossible.
Dare I say it... even God can't do it. It's not a matter or skill but the laguages are so different.


If 'you' don't like literal translations consider: The Christian Bible. Modern (1995) English that reads very well.
Personally I'm considering an electronic version of: This             Example
I'm especially fond of the notes/commentary because, as you should have guessed by now  :laughing7:, I think a translation greatly benefits from cultaral backgrounds.

White Wings, You slay me... :laughing7: