Lead and Temptation

[micah7:9]

`When ye may pray, say ye: Our Father who art in the heavens;
Luk 11:4  And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

This may have a very simple answer, why did Jesus say, "And lead us not into temptation..." when
in James we are told, "... neither tempteth he(Father) any man:..."

It just stuck me somewhat odd. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[CHB]

`When ye may pray, say ye: Our Father who art in the heavens;
Luk 11:4  And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

This may have a very simple answer, why did Jesus say, "And lead us not into temptation..." when
in James we are told, "... neither tempteth he(Father) any man:..."

It just stuck me somewhat odd. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

In (Gen. 22:1) it says "And it came to pass after these things that God did tempt Abraham.

Just my opinion but I think God deals with us sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly, but nevertheless he deals with us. Say for instance I come directly to you to make a payment on a debt. Maybe the next time, or maybe everytime I send someone else to give you the payment.

CHB

CHB

[ded2daworld]

I'm not saying it is the case, but it's possible that James is trying to prevent what is one of our favorite sins - the blame game.
From "the devil made me do it" To "why did Got let this happen" I think James makes it clear that when we sin, we have no excuse and no one else to blame for the Lord does not let "anything come to us that we are not able to overcome"
Remember, God already knew in advance what Abraham's response was going to be - in fact, in this case, God started the whole scenario of a Father being told to sacrificing his son and a lamb being put into place. :Chinscratch: :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

`When ye may pray, say ye: Our Father who art in the heavens;
Luk 11:4  And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

This may have a very simple answer, why did Jesus say, "And lead us not into temptation..." when
in James we are told, "... neither tempteth he(Father) any man:..."

It just stuck me somewhat odd. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

In (Gen. 22:1) it says "And it came to pass after these things that God did tempt Abraham.

Just my opinion but I think God deals with us sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly, but nevertheless he deals with us. Say for instance I come directly to you to make a payment on a debt. Maybe the next time, or maybe everytime I send someone else to give you the payment.

CHB

CHB

I knew you knew this CHB "tempt" Gen. 22:1 H5254 naw-saw'
A primitive root; to test; by implication to attempt: - adventure, assay, prove, tempt, try.

I do not for one minute, in my faith, believe that the Father God tempts anyone. I was just reading the prayer Jesus spoke, and found it very odd and curuous.

As for the "blame game," I do believe that trait it is invested in our natural carnal makeup. But anyone  who believes in Our Savior and Lord, knows, that we are not tempted by the Father. But thank you both. :dsunny:

[onlytruth]

My :2c:
God doesn't randomnly send temptation but only what is needed to accomplish his purpose.Us trying to tempt God to do something by some kind of blackmail, won't go very far either?!

[micah7:9]

My :2c:
God doesn't randomnly send temptation but only what is needed to accomplish his purpose.Us trying to tempt God to do something by some kind of blackmail, won't go very far either?!

"...randomnly send temptation...."?

[ded2daworld]

Does God do anything "randomly"? IMO no.

[Lazarus Short]

Einstein said something like "God does not roll dice."

[rosered]

    Hi ,   this   is interesting    , we are tested  and knowing we fail , Jesus was saying to  maybe avoid being tested And keep us from being tested ,being so weak in the flesh and our spirit may be willing ,  its better to not go into the test , knowing how bad it will  come out for  many


   Jesus was showing   how to  be  praying, not to be tested in the first place

[mplsfitter539]

Great thread by the way!
Genesis 1
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Exposure is not the the same as temptation. God exposed Adam when He put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil smack dab in the middle of the garden and then said don't eat from it. God is exposing everyone but............1 Corinthians 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
This is the pattern that was set by Christ himself.
We must be subjected/exposed to temptation if we are to become full brothers and sisters with Christ.
The decision to do this was made by a sovereign God who...........James 1
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

[sheila]

Amen Rose!!  Been my prayer,for sure.  Flesh and blood can not please God[weakness] spirit can.

  Doing unto others as ye would have them do unto you. Father doesn't like to be tested by us,either.

  but there is a wicked generation that does 'test' God that perishes in the wilderness..and this same

wicked generation tests and tempts man. and then accuses dy and night before God.

   satn hs demanded to sift ye as wheat

 

[onlytruth]

I was responding to" God doesn't send temptation"...I beleive he does,  in order to accomplish a purpose.
The random part was more tongue in cheek... as saying God isnt in control of what happens

[ded2daworld]

I think the difference is testing is incorrectly translated tempting.
IMO, God doesn't tempt but he does indeed test. :Chinscratch: :Peace2:

[lastpost]

Greetings.

I think, in "modern thought", this might come over as: "Do not allow us to be led into temptation by wicked spirits but sustain our faith, trust and love in Thee and grant us the grace and power to overcome temptations...".

I personally say: "When in temptation Thy Love sustains us...and deliver us from evil"

The God of my understanding does not "tempt" in the sense of: "Come on, if you do this you will be rich, famous and will be adored by the world" - that is the job of malevolent spirits.

Rather, God has created the laws which govern all existence and if there are fallen unseen spirits or those still in the flesh, who do try to make others fall and reap misery by tempting them to violate God's laws by influencing their thoughts, then that is because the fallen spirit and the one being tempted are both free-willed beings and naturally God's laws permit free-willed beings to make their own choices.

Either God is going to allow us to have choice in what we think and do or He is not. And as He has obviously allowed us to have freedom of choice, then He is hardly going to take that away as He designed Life to have free-will - hence His laws are there to rectify and restore through misery and suffering when His children break His laws of Life and Being.

But that is another subject.

[onlytruth]

Being tempted or tested usually have the same result...good or bad

[mplsfitter539]

 God is creating us in the image of His Son. Jesus was tempted by Satan and if we are to follow the example set by Jesus we also must overcome temptation. Jesus was the pattern. Jesus lived the life we are supposed to copy and if we were never tempted we would not be able to develop fully into full son-ship with Christ.

[CHB]

I believe God doesn't temp man directly but he gave that job to Satan, or whatever Satan is. Some do not think Satan is a being but I think he is.

CHB

[dajomaco]

Was Adam tempted to name the animals?
No No God brought the animals for Adam to name.

Was Adam or Eve tempted to eat from the tree of knowledge?

Yes Yes God wanted to show Adam that Adam and Eve were not God.

The Law was given and is perfect in it's purpose.
T o show Man that they are not God.
Man is not God and never will be.
The only way to not fall when tempted
is to be not tempted.
If you think in your mind that God does not want you to do
a certain thing .You will do that certain thing.

IMO I can say with all the certainty God temps no one.
We temp our selves when we see some one doing something we would not do.
   
 

[mplsfitter539]

IMO I can say with all the certainty God temps no one.
We temp our selves when we see some one doing something we would not do.
   

You contradict yourself in this post because earlier you said
"Was Adam or Eve tempted to eat from the tree of knowledge?

Yes Yes God wanted to show Adam that Adam and Eve were not God."

Does God in his sovereignty expose us to temptation not directly tempting us himself but not sheltering us from it? Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the earth which proves the fall of Adam (man) was a planned event.

[lomarah]

If you think in your mind that God does not want you to do a certain thing .You will do that certain thing.

Replace God with Mom and you just summed up my kids in a nutshell.  :laughing7:

[dajomaco]

IMO I can say with all the certainty God temps no one.
We temp our selves when we see some one doing something we would not do.
   

You contradict yourself in this post because earlier you said
"Was Adam or Eve tempted to eat from the tree of knowledge?

Yes Yes God wanted to show Adam that Adam and Eve were not God."

Does God in his sovereignty expose us to temptation not directly tempting us himself but not sheltering us from it? Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the earth which proves the fall of Adam (man) was a planned event.

Yes you are right that is a contradiction.

False messiahs[k] and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

"Then if anyone tells you, 'Look, here is the Messiah! Look—there!' do not believe it! 22 For false messiahs[j] and false prophets will rise up and will perform signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the elect.


God said it is impossible to be led astray.
God also says be on guard don't be led astray.

If I am walking along the way,(toward eternal bliss with God)
If I am then tempted, by myself, the devil, or an anti Christ.
To go away from Gods eternal bliss.

God tells me there is no way I can be deceived about eternal matters,
because they have nothing to do with me or my actions.



What then are we to say about these things?
If God is for us, who is against us?
32 He did not even spare His own Son
but offered Him up for us all;
how will He not also with Him grant us everything?
33 Who can bring an accusation against God's elect?
God is the One who justifies.
34 Who is the one who condemns?
Christ Jesus is the One who died,
but even more, has been raised;
He also is at the right hand of God
and intercedes for us.
35 Who can separate us from the love of Christ?
Can affliction or anguish or persecution
or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written:
Because of You
we are being put to death all day long;
we are counted as sheep to be slaughtered.

• 
  37 No, in all these things we are more than victorious
  through Him who loved us.
  38 For I am persuaded that not even death or life,
  angels or rulers,
  things present or things to come, hostile powers,
  39 height or depth, or any other created thing
  will have the power to separate us
  from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord!