I recently was engaged in a drawn out discussion with Bible Students at Present Truth Forum.They believe that not all will be saved. Dispite their belief that that not all but most will be saved the moderator of the site and others do not believe that believers need to keep the 10 Commands. I do believe that we should keep the Commands which includes the 4th Command of keeping the Sabbath. What is the position of UR believers concerning this issue here?
Oh dear Uni
There is so many perspectives , it is according to your faith are some many foundations laid ....
Only One is Christ Jesus that stands the test ... Jesus told us all the law and prophets are hung on these two , Love God and your brother as yourself . .
To me JESUS IS OUR SABBATH DAY and rest this is my faith and live by it .. this may not be yours or anothers faith ....
Paul said in Romans 14 , let no man judge your faith or cause your brother to stumble because of your own faith before the Lord God , If you read this you will see it is not our place to judge the law nor your brothers faith in God ,,, continue to pray to the Lord for all including yourself to come to the knowledge of the Truth ..
God is the righteous judge of" all things" that pertain to Him and what is His ...
We can only share our faith in the Lord and why we believe as we do ....
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14+&version=NRSV (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+14+&version=NRSV)
God bless :HeartThrob:
I think it varies..individually. I do not keep the 'sabbath' outwardly but fulfill it spiritually...by resting in Jesus Christ and His finished work.
..thus,I know that I am not righteous by keeping the law/Sabbath as a command for my flesh[no flesh pleases God] but by ceasing
from my own 'works' as it pertains to having any righteousness of my own/and believing in Jesus Christ/having faith in Him and His
finished work...I am declared righteous through faith/apart from works.
for the whole law hangs on these two..love God with your whole mind/heart/body..and love your brother as yourself....
I worked for years..on Sabbath as a nurse..love for fellowman fulfilled the Sabbath[is it lawful to kill or heal on the sabbath?]
....let no man judge you as regard to a holy day...anyone that seeks to kill/judge/condemn a fellowman as to Sabbath keeping
is not keeping the Lords commands[judge not/kill or heal on sabbath lawful] nor following the holy spirit[and the holy spirit
keep from idolatry/things strangled/blood and fornication] my :2c:
:thumbsup: Yeah for nurses! They really deserve a big thanks! They have to put up with patients and doctors to help develop their patience. LOL :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :Peace2:
ps..Jesus fulfilled the law/that means He fulfilled the Sabbath,too.even though religious leaders condemned him for Sabbath breaking
when He healed on the Sabbath..and continued to do His Father's works on the Sabbath.
interesting aside..no court/judicial judgements were held on the Sabbath..or other holy days/due to law against writing on the Sabbath
so you see..if you are in Christ no man can judge you/or write down an account[love does not keep account of the offense]against you.
lest he himself not keep the law he is accusing you of/you that judge law/are not keeping the law.
I agree with Rose and Sheila.. I believe we are free.. Free to observe the sabbath -"one day above another" or to "esteem all days alike".. And believe the " sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath"..
I wish I could keep sabbath - but because I "adapt myself to my own husband" I simply can't, I would observe it as a choice tho and not commandment as I figure we have one commandment - "the law was our tutor before being in Jesus" and Jesus head of the new agreement/ treaty we have with God gave us the one commandment, love " love works no ill".
Actually "love God" for then we draw near to Him, the only source of goodness. And it is thru loving Him that we are enabled/filled, to be able to truly love others.
I'm also reminded of Paul wrote if we mix the law with "grace" we are fallen from grace..
So I would observe sabbath as a preference and choice but not as a new testament rule as I try not to fall under the spell of self effort as that doesn't work, I don't believe and actually believe it robs the gospel and word / spirit of its saving and transforming POWER.
And to me, self effort at goodness, rather than He as the goodness which fills us and transforms us from faith to faith, following the law and self effort seems to me to imply - I earned my salvation.. But it is a gift.
Although of course The Law is an excellent guide as to good and evil.. But sabbath I believe was to insure a day off rather than ceaseless work.. Hebrews 4 compares law and grace.. As does Galatians and others..
Sabbath as a privilege, to me, yes, but as a requirement, no, though quiet resting time in Him reading His Word and prayer, preferably daily is of great benefit.
God bless.. I am sure others here may view this differently, so "let no one judge you concerning the sabbath or meats" - Romans 14, Colossians ?
God bless! :smile: :Peace2:
Quote from: sheila on January 20, 2016, 11:24:37 PM
I think it varies..individually. I do not keep the 'sabbath' outwardly but fulfill it spiritually...by resting in Jesus Christ and His finished work.
..thus,I know that I am not righteous by keeping the law/Sabbath as a command for my flesh[no flesh pleases God] but by ceasing
from my own 'works' as it pertains to having any righteousness of my own/and believing in Jesus Christ/having faith in Him and His
finished work...I am declared righteous through faith/apart from works.
for the whole law hangs on these two..love God with your whole mind/heart/body..and love your brother as yourself....
I worked for years..on Sabbath as a nurse..love for fellowman fulfilled the Sabbath[is it lawful to kill or heal on the sabbath?]
....let no man judge you as regard to a holy day...anyone that seeks to kill/judge/condemn a fellowman as to Sabbath keeping
is not keeping the Lords commands[judge not/kill or heal on sabbath lawful] nor following the holy spirit[and the holy spirit
keep from idolatry/things strangled/blood and fornication] my :2c:
Good 2c.
I.M.O the Sabbath meant doing no works other than the basics of the day.
We are in our Sabbath as far as personal works for salvation goes. A day of rest.
:thumbsup:
Thank you for all of the replies. I keep the Sabbath because without the Commands we do not know what sin is. Only the Commandments tell us what sin is. Besides...
In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). Jesus then listed several, including enough of the Ten Commandments to make clear which commandments He meant: " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself' " (Matthew 19:18-19).
Today some people will tell you that keeping the commandments was fulfilled by Christ and obeying God's law is therefore no longer required. But notice what Jesus Himself had to say about this idea: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17).
Some try to deny His plain, simple statement by interpreting the verse to mean the law was not abolished until Jesus came and fulfilled it. They then interpret "fulfill" as "bringing to an end," "superseding" or some other synonym for "abolishing." In essence they have Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the law, but to abolish it."
Jesus, on the other hand, said heaven and earth would disappear before the smallest part of the law would do so (Matthew 5:18). He said the law would continue until everything is accomplished. Because the fulfillment of many biblical prophecies of Christ's second coming is yet to occur (the prophecies have not yet been accomplished), we know the law has not ceased to exist.
The truth of the matter is that Jesus was speaking to people who believed in keeping all of the Ten Commandments. He reaffirmed the necessity for all who come to Him to do likewise. In Matthew chapters 5-7 Jesus explained how God intended for the Ten Commandments to be kept. By giving this explanation and exemplifying it in His life, He was fulfilling a prophecy about Himself from Isaiah 42:21: "The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law and make it honorable" (King James Version).
The word fulfill in Matthew 5:17 means "fill up," "make full," "fill to the full" or "complete." Jesus came to magnify, or fill completely full, the meaning of God's law. Jesus' teaching that a man who lusts after a woman has already committed adultery in his mind represented Jesus' magnification of all of the Ten Commandments. He explained the full meaning—the spiritual intent—of the commandments. He showed that He expects more than just a legalistic, letter-of-the-law approach; He also expects a submissive, yielded mind focused on love for God and love for our fellow man.
Jesus further clarifies: "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).
Clearly, fulfill does not mean "abolish"!
Another common misunderstanding is that the New Testament Church came to believe that it is not necessary to follow Christ's example of obeying the law. But His apostles, who were personally taught by Him, certainly did not agree with this idea.
The apostle John said: "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked" (1 John 2:3-6).
Even the apostle Paul, who is most often cited by those attempting to do away with God's law, himself refuted this erroneous idea, saying, "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1). Far from condemning the law, Paul said, "The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Romans 7:12) and, "I delight in the law of God" (Romans 7:22). Indeed, he said that "keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19).
We must avoid reading our own ideas into the Bible. Quoting from the prophet Isaiah, our Savior warned against trusting our own ideas instead of the laws of God: " 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men ... All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition" (Mark 7:6-9).
Today people who do not understand UR think that we believe that we can sin everyday since Yahweh will restore everyone to eternal life. Of course we should be an example or salt to the world. That is why I believe that we must be sure we follow Christ's example instead of our own ideas
QuoteOnly the Commandments tell us what sin is.
IMO, the Holy Spirit tells us what sin is.
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
Paul was very clear about the law. The law is good, but it is only a tutor, leading us to a relationship with Jesus the Messiah in the Spirit. A shadow of the full reality of relationship with YHWH in Messiah.
Neither circumcision or uncircumcision is anything- but a new creation.
The law was good, but a higher law has come- the divine nature within, Christ in you the hope of glory.
A new commandment I give unto you. Love one another.
So with my mind I agree that the law is good, but another law is working in my members. Who will free me from the body of this death. Thank God for Jesus Christ! He lives within me and I live, yet not I, and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith if the Son of God.
Jesus plainly said that love fulfills the commandments, and that all the law and the prophets are summed up in those two commandments, to love God wholeheartedly, and love you neighbor as yourself.
People who walk in love fulfill the Ten Commandments through the life of Jesus Christ in them.
As to the Sabbath, if someone wants to keep the Sabbath, I think it is a healthy practice, but not something that should be required, because some people are walking in a Sabbath life that transcends individual days, which is what we are really called to do.
Quote from: eaglesway on January 21, 2016, 12:58:48 PM
QuoteOnly the Commandments tell us what sin is.
IMO, the Holy Spirit tells us what sin is.
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
Paul was very clear about the law. The law is good, but it is only a tutor, leading us to a relationship with Jesus the Messiah in the Spirit. A shadow of the full reality of relationship with YHWH in Messiah.
Neither circumcision or uncircumcision is anything- but a new creation.
The law was good, but a higher law has come- the divine nature within, Christ in you the hope of glory.
A new commandment I give unto you. Love one another.
So with my mind I agree that the law is good, but another law is working in my members. Who will free me from the body of this death. Thank God for Jesus Christ! He lives within me and I live, yet not I, and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith if the Son of God.
Jesus plainly said that love fulfills the commandments, and that all the law and the prophets are summed up in those two commandments, to love God wholeheartedly, and love you neighbor as yourself.
People who walk in love fulfill the Ten Commandments through the life of Jesus Christ in them.
As to the Sabbath, if someone wants to keep the Sabbath, I think it is a healthy practice, but not something that should be required, because some people are walking in a Sabbath life that transcends individual days, which is what we are really called to do.
Amen ! and amen , beautifully said , John !! :HeartThrob:
:thumbsup: the law etc a mere shadow of the reality...........the 1000 yr reign of Christ is the true Sabbath.
:thumbsup:
2 Cor 3
7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
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The law is holy, but unable to bring righteousness because of the lack of Spirit which was not given to the people until after Chris ascended. The Law on tablet and parchment could only tell a brick wall not to be a brick wall. The Spirit saves from sin because it is internal and changes the heart, and brings the wall down.
It's not that morality goes astray without the Law, it's that the Spirit changes the desires of the heart so that you don't need 10 commandments to tell you not to do something you already don't want to do, like murder or covet.
This is what I do not get. When our Savior was asked what must be done for eternal life it was always ...(something) and keep the Commands. How is it that respondents always quote other Scriptures (which are valid) which seem to eliminate the need to ignore the Commands. Yes our Savior gave us the new command of love but He did not say to ignore the Commands, In fact, He plainly stated that not dot of the law is now invalid but rather He came to fulfill the law. Does it make any sense that Yahshua (JESUS) and the Apostles state that we must obey (follow) the Commands but then one or a few other Scriptures seems to say the opposite. No, I thinks not. All scripture must
harmonize.
Jesus said "keep the commands" for someone who was under the Law. He hadn't died and been resurrected yet.
Again, people with the Holy Spirit, who WALK according to the Spirit don't need laws to tell them not to murder. They already don't want to commit murder.
That is why the Bible says that the Law is not for the righteous but for murderers (1 Tim 1:9)
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 20, 2016, 09:20:09 PM
I recently was engaged in a drawn out discussion with Bible Students at Present Truth Forum.They believe that not all will be saved. Dispite their belief that that not all but most will be saved the moderator of the site and others do not believe that believers need to keep the 10 Commands. I do believe that we should keep the Commands which includes the 4th Command of keeping the Sabbath. What is the position of UR believers concerning this issue here?
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/barnabas.html
To me Barnabas says it well.
CHAPTER XV.--THE FALSE AND THE TRUE SABBATH.
Further, also, it is written concerning the Sabbath in the Decalogue which [the Lord] spoke, face to face, to Moses on Mount Sinai, "And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart." And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them." The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it." Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, "He finished in six days." This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, "Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years." Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished. "And He rested on the seventh day." This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day. Moreover, He says, "Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. Further, He says to them, "Your new moons and your Sabbath I cannot endure." Ye perceive how He speaks: Your present Sabbaths are not acceptable to Me, but that is which I have made, [namely this,] when, giving rest to all things, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead. And when He had manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.
The simplest way I have been able to explain my understanding of it is that the Law tells a carnal man not to act carnally. That's like telling a wolf not to behave like a wolf, or a cobra not to behave like a cobra. That's what made the Law both holy and weak. Not weak in its ability to reflect God, but in its ability to affect change.
The Spirit makes the change happen so that we can live morally and also free from Law, because once the change comes we don't need to live by a legal code. Morality becomes instinctual and natural.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Seth, you said that perfectly!
...amen it's true we do keep the commandments, through His Spirit in us - "Love works no ill"
the 3 L's - law - love - license
"Grace" is not license and is not thought to be license by those truly indwelt with His Spirit.. for such a one "cannot sin" / practice sin..
The law says, don't commit adultery.. but Grace gets to the root.. don't be straying in your heart. Have your own mate and think of no others..
Do not murder.. grace says do not be angry without cause (hate)
Grace of His indwelling Spirit.. does not hate.. because His Spirit does not hate.. Jesus said 'why call me good, there is only one who is good" - no other source of goodness... beware lest you not enter His rest through unbelief.. as Israel did.. the law (self effort) is simply not good enough.. and there is no source of goodness which originates within us. If I pride myself on keeping the law.. well..
Hebrews 4 talks about what the true Sabbath of God is.. of which the 7th day was a shadow..
If I wanted to require the 7th day for myself.. perhaps that would be okay but never require it of others.. I may require it of myself not to eat meat.. but not if I'm counting on these things to earn me approval from Him.. the only approval from Him is Jesus.. all else the Word calls not up to par.. rags..
AMEN carnally minded is death , what does death have to do with LIFE ? 1 JOHN3 Love One Another!!
...13Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you.
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.... :HeartThrob:
Some thoughts.
Blessings for Sabbath observance
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exo 20:8-11
We see here there is a blessing for observing the fourth Commandment.
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Exo 31:15-18
It is a sign that we are God's Child and He is our Father.
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28+29
"Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my Sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;"
Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;" Isa 56:2-6
In the Bible the name frequently represents a person Character. When their was a change in character a new name was given ( Jacob to Israel and Saul to Paul). The blessing here is a transformed character - New Birth. Not earned but a free gift. ... "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" Heb 8:10
If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isa 58:13-14
The Messiah is the Heritage of Jacob. Jesus Christ is this heritage which will feed us. "I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." John 6:51
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD." Isa 66:22-23
Sabbath will be observed in the new earth. The Blessing will continue.
Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the Sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem;
Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the Sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the Sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.
But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.
And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the Sabbath day, but hallow the Sabbath day, to do no work therein;
Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever.
And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD.
But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched." Jer 17:21-27
There is a blessing to a nation for Sabbath observance, and a curse for violation. The reason the USA has and is currently blessed is because it has protected the religious freedom of those who follow all the Commandment of God. This nation is blessed because of the presence of Sabbath Keepers. If this nation should apostasies from it position of religious freedom, our national blessing from God will depart. God bless America!
"For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day." Mat 12:8
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read." Luke 4:16
Our Lord by Observing the Sabbath add a blessing to His day.
the law was written unto the lawless..and the sabbath law was for the lawless that they be restrained from any of their 'work' which is evil" on
that day[the law was added because of transgression] The Lord of the Sabbath says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
if you would examine the 1000year Sabbath day /reign of the Lord..you will see Satan is bound that Sabbath day from doing his evil
works..this should show you why the sabbath was created for the benefit of man..and not man for the benefit of the Sabbath.
He also told them to pray that their flight would not occur in winter or on the Sabbath...as He knew the offspring of vipers in the pharisee's
and sadducee's and even Roman armies surrounding..would kill rather than save life on the Sabbath. and even hinder the escape
for their lives.
...and I have a question for you..do you also keep the Sabbath 'year' every 7 years..no work..for the whole year/no planting/harvesting?
Lev ch 25..........
Good points from both sides of the Sabbath discussion.
I.M.O a key question is,
" Why did Christ specifically heal on the Sabbath?"
This was the point that was irking the scribes and Pharisees.
Paul specifies the law and grace difference in Romans and Galations.
Gal 3;18 " For if the inheritance is based on the law it is no longer based on the promise, but God gave it to Abraham through a promise.'
Gal 3;24-26 " The law was our disciplinarian until the time of Christ, so that we might be declared righteous by faith.. Now this time has come we are no longer under a guardian. For you are all sons of God through faith in Jesus."
Gal 4;4,5 " But when the fullness of time had come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive the adoption as sons."
This is really very simple. Paul made it clear. Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews from his youth. He celebrated the Sabbath according to his own pleasure and the needs of his ministry among his countrymen.
He taught however, that the Sabbath was no longer a requirement, and that it ought not be taught as one, especially to Gentile believers.
Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God....Rom 14
We may all do as we are convinced in regards to the Sabbaths. We may not teach others that they should or must do as we do. Teaching that Gentile believers were taught to keep the Sabbaths is false teaching.... they were not. Teaching that the Sabbaths will be kept in the New Jerusalem is an interpretation for which there is little support in the New Testament and is a theory, not a teaching or doctrine established in scripture. Since we(the ecclesia) are the New Jerusalem, built of living stones, a habitation of God in the Spirit, fitly joined together with the mortar of brotherly love, according to the lines of the chief cornerstone, imo, those things from which we are free today- will also be at liberty in the age to come
However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain. Galatians 4
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Col 2
Quote from: rosered on January 21, 2016, 10:54:12 PM
AMEN carnally minded is death , what does death have to do with LIFE ? 1 JOHN3 Love One Another!!
...13Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you.
14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.... :HeartThrob:
:thumbsup: :dsunny:
Always good things everyone :thumbsup: Gods blessings of great grace on all .. no doubt about that ..
I love this ,,, what of ,,, the Sabbath DAY on the 7th day GOD RESTED , was when all were GATHERED AS ONE [GEN2 ]
THE SAME GLORY I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS .....[Gen 1]
John 17 ...4"I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 8:58
"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
John 17:1
After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.[ THE HOUR OF THE CROSS] EVERY ONE HAS TO DIE TO , TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN CHRIST ...Jesus being the first fruit / one of a kind son to Gather into Himself what was scattered abroad and lost will be found in the SABBATH DAY /REST IN GOD
John 17:24
"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
:HeartThrob: WOW !!! :dsunny: LOVE HAS MADE A WAY HOME
1 Peter 1:21
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
the word made flesh , died in the flesh to make the Word Alive though faith in GOD same Spirit of life WILL BE GATHERED WHOLE AGAIN as it once was before the world / death entered though it
these works no man can boast about ,, All GLORY IS GOD ALONE ......
The Seventh Day: God Rests
1Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Hebrews 4:4
For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "On the seventh day God rested from all his works."
Hebrews 4:10
for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his
Jesus Christ is the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily /Complete /PERFECT /ENTIRE /WHOLENESS what was , IS , and will always BE ... DONE
No more death , no more pain , no more tears all those things are over with in Christ /SPIRIT /SON, as we cease from struggling against GODS DESIRE/Will /Word /two covenants ,
as our own cross is the finished work [goal ] IN CHRIST of LIFE for the dead in and though our Lord Jesus Christ of the dead and living BOTH in ONE ,
When He is Lifted Up He draws all dead to life again into Himself , Life from among the dead , whom is Gods whom is ALL , LOVE REIGNS SUPREME :HeartThrob:
Yes! That's what it is,Father haveing all His children restored and back home with Him. Also,Jesus prayer answered...I always do that
which pleases the Father.
Just a couple of other scriptures about the Sabbath.
Matt 12;1-8 " In that season Jesus went on through the cornfields, and His disciples hungered and plucked ears of corn to eat. But the Pharisees observing it said to Him,
' Behold your disciples are doing what is not allowed on the Sabbath.'
And Jesus said to them,
' Have you never read what David did when he hungered, and they who were with him? How he entered into the house of God and did eat the presence bread, which it was not allowable for him to eat, nor they who were with him, but only for the priests. Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests profane the Sabbath in the temple and are blameless. But I say to you something greater than the temple is here. However, if you had known what this means
" I desire mercy and not sacrifice"
you would not have condemned the blameless; for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
1 Peter 2;9 " But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a specific treasure, that you may tell forth of the excellence of Him Who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light."
1 Peter 2;15 " Yourselves are being built up as living stones, as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices well pleasing to God through Jesus Christ."
Quote from: Ross on January 23, 2016, 05:31:31 AM
Just a couple of other scriptures about the Sabbath.
Matt 12;1-8 " In that season Jesus went on through the cornfields, and His disciples hungered and plucked ears of corn to eat. But the Pharisees observing it said to Him,
' Behold your disciples are doing what is not allowed on the Sabbath.'
And Jesus said to them,
' Have you never read what David did when he hungered, and they who were with him? How he entered into the house of God and did eat the presence bread, which it was not allowable for him to eat, nor they who were with him, but only for the priests. Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests profane the Sabbath in the temple and are blameless. But I say to you something greater than the temple is here. However, if you had known what this means
" I desire mercy and not sacrifice"
you would not have condemned the blameless; for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
1 Peter 2;9 " But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a specific treasure, that you may tell forth of the excellence of Him Who has called you out of darkness into His marvellous light."
1 Peter 2;15 " Yourselves are being built up as living stones, as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices well pleasing to God through Jesus Christ."
Hi Ross ,
The sabbath to me is Jesus Christ ALONE and He is the Lord of the dead and living .. sabbath rest is to die in the Lord and the Lord is raised up in power in you , When He is Lifted up from death LIFE springs forth doing the works of faith in you from the Father LIVING GOD ...
Love also that when Paul was describing paradise of God and calling it the third heaven , the thief on the cross was given this gift of grace IN Jesus Christ ,that DAY it was not permitted for a mere human to speak of such glorious and exceptional things ...
What the law could NOT do , LOOK what the grace of God has done though the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ , He alone took death captive and now holds those keys making satan powerless over the law !! Jesus Christ opened heaven for all !!
Many do not understand the new heavens , and why there was 3 and not the old and new one , but 3 heavens mentioned in the WORD OF GOD , It is the Higher realm of GODS PRESENCE who has seen GOD at any time and lived to tell of it !Can God be seen face to face (Genesis 32:30; Exodus 33:11) or not (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12)?
Only the pure in heart shall see God , Jesus says differently in [Matt 5] true worshippers in Spirit& truth
John 4 ...23"But an hour is coming, and
now is HOUR ''LAST HOUR'' 1 John 2 , when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24"God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." :HeartThrob: Little children,
it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, the urgency in the message is this salvation is nearer than when we first believed !
He said , 1 Cor 12 Paul's Visions and Revelations
12 It is necessary to boast; nothing is to be gained by it,
but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the
third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know;
God knows.
3 And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows—
4
was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat. 5 On behalf of such a one I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast,
except of my weaknesses. 6 But if I wish to boast,
I will not be a fool, for I will be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think better of me than what is seen in me or heard from me,
7
even considering the exceptional character of the revelations. Therefore, to keep me from being too elated
, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me,
to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I appealed to the Lord about this,
that it would leave me,
9 but he said to me, "
My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." So, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses
, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 T
herefore I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities for the sake of Christ;
for whenever I am weak, then I am strong. Our Sabbath rest is in God battling for us salvation , than who can be against us ? not anything can separate us from this LOVE OF GOD ! :HeartThrob:
" .. sabbath rest is to die in the Lord and the Lord is raised up in power in you "
Indeed the very point of taking up the cross daily. Also why Paul says, 'I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who lives but Christ Who lives in me."
" 9 but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness." So, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities for the sake of Christ; for whenever I am weak, then I am strong."
[/u]
Key points made by Paul. Pretty much opposite to what the flesh promotes about self-righteousness and/or works.
Keeping the commands makes more sense when seeing them as a starter to life which is more courteous and considerate of others. Just like raising kids we have to establish boundaries, as they grow they expand. Hence we know that the rules are there yet live with freedom and confidence of mutual respect. And all this is only the beginning of fathoming the depth of love which goes beyond all the necessities of laws. As the word says, if we love the way in 1 Cor 13, then life has meaning. The greatest of all is love as beautifully demonstrated by Christ.
Amen, "love is the fulfilling of the law" - "The fruit of the Spirit is.. and against such, there is no law.."
Romans 3:21 was in my readings this morning - "But now the righteousness of God, apart from the law, is revealed, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."
And we know, which I believe Sheila wrote, that the Jerusalem council - Acts 15 - which was convened to determine from the Spirit what rules to give to gentile believers, said "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: to be abstaining from idol sacrifices, and blood, and what is strangled and fornication; from which, carefully keeping yourselves, you will do well. Fare ye well."
Anything we put on the throne with Jesus, dilutes the gospel. ..In "the new and living way" we keep sabbath by our resting in Jesus, the Sabbath rest of the LORD. - Hebrews chapter 4 goes into the "Sabbath rest" we are to enter.. and ends with, verse 16, Amplified Version "Therefore let us [with privilege] approach the throne of grace [that is, the throne of God's gracious favor] with confidence and without fear, so that we may receive mercy [for our failures] and find [His amazing] grace to help in time of need [an appropriate blessing, coming just at the right moment]." Which puts me in mind of verse which say not to hinder or throw a rock of hindrance in anyone's path.. And when a church or denomination makes requirements not required, they are diluting the gospel's power and hindering others.. imo ..they do not trust the grace of God..
:bdh: I know.. but I never tire of this topic and it's a very important one.. And it seems like every New Testament letter addresses the issue of law vs grace.. :Peace2:
We never tire because we are alive in Christ.
Grace and the law are the complete issue of faith and works.
:thumbsup: awesome Marie , :banana:
Amen Ross faith in God whom does the works though Jesus Christ,'' Our bread from heaven '' and Life !! The gift of Gods grace to build upon and LIFT UP and draw all men unto HIM
John 6
Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send.'
Romans 3:28,27
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Where is boasting then? It is excluded."
Verses 4:2-4
"For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about.. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (earned)
Verse 3:31
"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."
Colossians 2:16
"..do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."
Romans 14:5,6
"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; :thumbsup: and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it..." :thumbsup:
:Peace2: :HeartThrob:
.."This is the work of God, that ye may believe in him whom He did send" Amen Rose!
From Acts - "What must I do to be saved?" .."believe on the Lord Jesus.." If we search the scriptures, gentile believers were never told to observe the Sabbath(Acts 15) - Jesus rose on the the Feast of First-Fruits which always fell on the first day of the week (sunday) as it always followed the regular weekly Sabbath of Spring holy week..(Lev 23)
:Peace2: :coffee:
Scripture plainly states that the Sabbath was made of man (and woman). It does not say for the Jews or the House of Israel alone. Paul kept the Sabbath as well as the Gentiles of his time. If you do not believe that we must keep the Sabbath then I suggest that you believe you may commit adultery, covet, have false Gods, steal, murder, etc. Of Course no one who is law abiding both spiritually and worldly would commit these sins. The new testament is fillid with Scripture instructing us to keep the commands. Remember faith without works is dead.
:dsunny:
Commandments?
In Matthew 19:16, Jesus was asked what must be done to inherit eternal life. His answer: "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17). Jesus then listed several, including enough of the Ten Commandments to make clear which commandments He meant: " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself' " (Matthew 19:18-19).
Today some people will tell you that keeping the commandments was fulfilled by Christ and obeying God's law is therefore no longer required. But notice what Jesus Himself had to say about this idea: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17).
Some try to deny His plain, simple statement by interpreting the verse to mean the law was not abolished until Jesus came and fulfilled it. They then interpret "fulfill" as "bringing to an end," "superseding" or some other synonym for "abolishing." In essence they have Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the law, but to abolish it."
Jesus, on the other hand, said heaven and earth would disappear before the smallest part of the law would do so (Matthew 5:18). He said the law would continue until everything is accomplished. Because the fulfillment of many biblical prophecies of Christ's second coming is yet to occur (the prophecies have not yet been accomplished), we know the law has not ceased to exist.
The truth of the matter is that Jesus was speaking to people who believed in keeping all of the Ten Commandments. He reaffirmed the necessity for all who come to Him to do likewise. In Matthew chapters 5-7 Jesus explained how God intended for the Ten Commandments to be kept. By giving this explanation and exemplifying it in His life, He was fulfilling a prophecy about Himself from Isaiah 42:21: "The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law and make it honorable" (King James Version).
The word fulfill in Matthew 5:17 means "fill up," "make full," "fill to the full" or "complete." Jesus came to magnify, or fill completely full, the meaning of God's law. Jesus' teaching that a man who lusts after a woman has already committed adultery in his mind represented Jesus' magnification of all of the Ten Commandments. He explained the full meaning—the spiritual intent—of the commandments. He showed that He expects more than just a legalistic, letter-of-the-law approach; He also expects a submissive, yielded mind focused on love for God and love for our fellow man.
Jesus further clarifies: "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).
Clearly, fulfill does not mean "abolish"!
Another common misunderstanding is that the New Testament Church came to believe that it is not necessary to follow Christ's example of obeying the law. But His apostles, who were personally taught by Him, certainly did not agree with this idea.
The apostle John said: "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, 'I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked" (1 John 2:3-6).
Even the apostle Paul, who is most often cited by those attempting to do away with God's law, himself refuted this erroneous idea, saying, "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1). Far from condemning the law, Paul said, "The law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Romans 7:12) and, "I delight in the law of God" (Romans 7:22). Indeed, he said that "keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19).
We must avoid reading our own ideas into the Bible. Quoting from the prophet Isaiah, our Savior warned against trusting our own ideas instead of the laws of God: " 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men ... All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition" (Mark 7:6-9).
We, too, must be sure we follow Christ's example instead of our own ideas!
Exactly the carnal mind is the true enemy in us all to be carnally minded is DEATH
Holy Spirit is the true teacher , we are to Never lean on our own understanding .
You have an unction from the Holy Spirit 1 John 2 Beware of Antichrists
...19They went out from us, but they were not really of us;
for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us;
but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth....
Proverbs 28:5
Evildoers do not understand what is right, but those who seek the LORD understand it fully.
Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
Matthew 13:11
He replied, "Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Mark 1:24
"What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"
John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Acts 10:38
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
1 Corinthians 2:15
The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
2 Corinthians 1:21
Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Jude 1:5
Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
The thing is the learn to be as faithful to the Lord and He has always been to you , many have never come that far in this life ...
while you were yet sinners Christ died for you ....
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 07:29:06 PM
Today some people will tell you that keeping the commandments was fulfilled by Christ and obeying God's law is therefore no longer required. But notice what Jesus Himself had to say about this idea: "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17).
Jesus did fulfill the law. The things Jesus said about keeping the law was before his crucifixion. The law was still in force as long as Jesus remained alive but after his death and resurrection it became a law of death.
(Rom. 7:49 Wherefore my brethern, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;. (Gal. 3:13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us. (Gal. 3:24-25) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
(Heb. 8:13) In that he saith, A new Covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready
to vanish away.
Personally I think that for me to try to keep the law would be denying Jesus and what he did for me.
CHB
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
I guard his mitzvot as well, including shabbat. For clarification, when you say he fulfilled the ceremonial law, what do you mean by that? Fulfilled in what way? Just so you know, I am not trying to argue against your convictions, simply desiring to understand where you are coming from better.
Ronen
well,see...the spirit of Christ [Holy spirit]in you fulfills the commands..and becaus Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath,so,too,
is that spirit in you...and like He said 'the Father has continued to work unto know,and so I" it is the Father doing the 'work' in me..
if our Father continues to work on the sabbath..and the priests and High Priests..why wouldn't those that are called to be a Priesthood?
even followers and recievers of the Holy spirit..Be Counted blameless under the law.......also...the sons of the kingdom..are also free of the
obligation of the temple tax. the Sabbath was a day set aside in memorial of God resting when all His creative work is finished..of
which man 'let us make man in our image and likeness' was part of it. when Jesus said 'it is finished' on the cross..and laid down
His life willingly and obediently in the form of man..that was the finished work....the fulfilling of the first law covenant..the first and
only man without sin and obedient unto death..in the very image and likeness of God. In fact,Jesus was told to come home and sit
at His Father's right hand..while Father put all things under His feet. Jesus Christ is Father's rest and the 1000year day...and just
because they heal,raise the dead on it..as a priestly,High Priest service unto God on it does not profane it.
remember the sabbath to keep it Holy..is to sanctify it...a set apart unto the service of God...to rest from our own endeavours
our own interests..in loveing the Father and our brother's as ourselves. There is therefore now no condemnation[lawbreakers]
of those in Christ......
you break one..you break them all...through one man/and the breaking of one commandment sin/death entered to all men....thus
the breaking of God's law/command 'DO NOT EAT OF TOKOGAE} brought death unto all men......the very death of sin works/or the
works of the devil in man...enters it's eternal rest in the death..of the man of sin...the law of sin,as Paul spoke of may be at work
in his body members[the good that I desire to do..I do not! that which I do not desire to do..I do....Who will save me from this
body undergoing this death! Praise be to God and Jesus Christ
But the spirit of liberty/life and grace in Jesus Christ will quicken our mortal bodies..that which is mortal shall put on immortality
The law says and eye for an eye,tooth for tooth....Jesus fulfilled that......He laid down His life willingly to pay that penalty for
all who had died in Adam. He said..'no man takes it from me"thus..the law's requirement was fulfilled and the whole law was fulfilled as
far as the old covenant...and a new covenant was brought in...any man that believes God and Jesus,that Jesus is the son of God
may have eternal life[after all not believing God that if you ate from the tokogae brought death} and be granted to eat of TOL....
thus believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God opens the way to the TOL..again a reversing of the curse! for unbelief and
disobediance of His word/command!
Nothing can seperate us[cut us off-throw us out of His presence!] from the love of God that was shown us in Jesus Christ.
we enter into life through believing...just as we all entered into death by not believing............
the flaming cherubs that guard the way into the garden...and cover/ guard the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant...that
barred all out entrance into His presence...will not let you in as long as you remain in unbelief..it is through our very belief
in the 'word of God come in flesh" that we enter.
the curse of those under law/disobedience/unbelief..is reversed when man repents[rethinks]and the love of the truth[in Christ]
is their new mindset. Eve was seduced into believing the liar...and the love of the truth did not keep her from disbelieving
the word of God on the matter..as far as the command of God went..to not eat..lest ye die.......
we need to believe that the command to Not eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil..lest ye die..is TRUTH.....WE NEED TO
LOVE THAT TRUTH.....for it will keep us well.
then we have access to TOL......by BELIEVING JESUS CHRIST..THE WORD OF GOD THAT WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE>>AND
WE MUST LOVE THAT TRUTH.....I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA......FIRST AND LAST
WE ALL IN ADAM ENTERED INTO DEATH THROUGH OUR UNBELIEF IN GOD"S WORD....TO NOT EAT OF THAT TREE OF TKOGAE
MANY STILL THROUGH UNBELIEF IN THE "WORD OF GOD" DO NOT ENTER INTO LIFE!
note that word come to the first Adam and the last
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
I believe the Holy Spirit is what tells what sin is and convicts us.
There are a lot more things other than the 10 commandments that are "missing the mark"
Jesus said that 'the commandment was unto life" what was He talking about? He was speaking of the original commandment
of God NOT to eat from the TOKOGAE...God give that because He wanted man to live and have life.
Man being driven out of the Garden..lest he eat of the TOL and live forever....was God's will until man was made a believer
in the 'Word' of God..in that God did not want man to continue in His unbelief..eternally.
thus the whole ministry of death..including the law.[tokogae]..shows man that God's word is TRUE/TRUTH. and to this day...
if we shrink back to that tree.eat from it.....it kills us. a negative contrast lesson.
the Holy spirit convicts us of not believing in Jesus Christ.
the positive is the tol/belief in Jesus Christ..'the Word of God".
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
Jesus said he fulfilled the law and the prophets. He didn't say he fulfilled some of the law and the prophets.
IF you walk by the Spirit you don't need laws to tell you what sin is. Love does no evil.
Quote from: Seth on January 26, 2016, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
Jesus said he fulfilled the law and the prophets. He didn't say he fulfilled some of the law and the prophets.
IF you walk by the Spirit you don't need laws to tell you what sin is. Love does no evil.
Thanks Seth, your posts always seem to make such sense to me.
I love what Paul says in Romans 8 , that the law is fulfilled in us whom walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh
So I really love what you
all shared :HeartThrob:
especially this GODISLOVE ..
QuoteQuote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
I believe the Holy Spirit is what tells what sin is and convicts us.
There are a lot more things other than the 10 commandments that are "missing the mark"
It is the HOLY SPIRIT being the'' chastiser'' teacher and comforter [binding and loosing satan for the destruction of our flesh ] so in the Day of the Lord our Spirit is saved in Jesus Christ .
We learn from the WORD OF GOD & SPIRIT OF GOD total TRUTH that does fulfill '' all things '' :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on January 26, 2016, 12:29:56 PM
I love what Paul says in Romans 8 , that the law is fulfilled in us whom walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh
So I really love what you all shared :HeartThrob:
especially this GODISLOVE ..
QuoteQuote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
I believe the Holy Spirit is what tells what sin is and convicts us.
There are a lot more things other than the 10 commandments that are "missing the mark"
It is the HOLY SPIRIT being the" chastiser" teacher and comforter [binding and loosing satan for the destruction of our flesh ] so in the Day of the Lord our Spirit is saved in Jesus Christ .
We learn from the WORD OF GOD & SPIRIT OF GOD total TRUTH that does fulfill " all things " :HeartThrob:
Go Rose! :declare: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: sheila on January 26, 2016, 01:09:45 AM
Jesus said that 'the commandment was unto life" what was He talking about? He was speaking of the original commandment
of God NOT to eat from the TOKOGAE...God give that because He wanted man to live and have life.
Man being driven out of the Garden..lest he eat of the TOL and live forever....was God's will until man was made a believer
in the 'Word' of God..in that God did not want man to continue in His unbelief..eternally.
thus the whole ministry of death..including the law.[tokogae]..shows man that God's word is TRUE/TRUTH. and to this day...
if we shrink back to that tree.eat from it.....it kills us. a negative contrast lesson.
the Holy spirit convicts us of not believing in Jesus Christ.
the positive is the tol/belief in Jesus Christ..'the Word of God".
:thumbsup:
I agree and believe that this is the essence of all spirituality.
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom(tree of Life). 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing(tokogae). 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [m]reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.(TOL) James 3
The law was a tutor and a shadow, and as such it was good in its time. But now we have come into the reality which is Christ in you- the tree of life, bearing fruit of the Spirit. As we are renewed in the spirit of our mind, and strengthened with might by His Spirit in our inner man....as the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who is given us, we fulfill the law in the newness of the spirit- written on tablets of human hearts, the love of God. This is freedom, and it is freedom because it FULFILLS THE LAW, and transcends it.
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but love from a pure heart.
Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
The law itself was not able to transform. It was given as a guide and a form into which Christ the reality could be poured into a consciousness of the insufficiency of any law- because of the insufficiency of any human to keep it.
Hence grace and love and a freedom that transcends the law by initiating a higher law of fellowship in Jesus Christ the Lord- transformation by the Spirit.
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened;
for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and
where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, (by the Spirit, who is the Lord)".2 Cor 4
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.Rom 8
delighted you chose that 'choice' portion. Thinking of God's command when Peter asked if they should erect 3 tents....
'This is my Son,in whom I am well pleased..'HEAR YE HIM" and I give you a new command..Love one another"
Quote from: Patinak on January 26, 2016, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: Seth on January 26, 2016, 03:27:16 AM
Quote from: universalist1949 on January 25, 2016, 09:55:47 PM
You are mixing up the ceremonial law with the commandments. Jesus (Yahshua) fulfilled the ceremonial law not the Commands. The Commands are what tells us what sin is.
Jesus said he fulfilled the law and the prophets. He didn't say he fulfilled some of the law and the prophets.
IF you walk by the Spirit you don't need laws to tell you what sin is. Love does no evil.
Thanks Seth, your posts always seem to make such sense to me.
:friendstu: