It seems that the traditional mainline church denominations constantly harp on the sins of the world as if it were something new and awful attributed to the present times. There is nothing new that is new under the sun and that includes sins of this world, it goes clear back to Adam, the first Adam which is from the beginning of man in this world. Jesus Christ himself found the same things being preached by the religious leaders of his day, that the Pharisee exalted himself above the publican as though he were above other men by all his law keeping, even adding to the origional 10 God given laws 613 additional preverted man made laws to show everybody how they were below the Pharisees no matter how they lived their life, the Pharisees set themselves up to play God with mens lives and claimed authority to do so, this hasn't changed, many if not most traditionaly formal organized mainline church denominations today employ much the same deceptive manipulating authority so that no matter what anyone under their authority does it is never enough, you are made to believe you need to do more than you are doing constantly and relentlessly, rendering the good news gospel and grace of the word to no effect by holding on to these old covenant doctrines and traditions that man must serve out in the letter, with this is it any wonder the Son of man had no place in this world to lay his head in rest?
However when study of the word points to the fact that the Publican went down to his house justified before the other, Jesus said regarding the Publican that it was better to be as this man than to be ranked amoung the Pharisees.
The word justified appears about 43 times in the bible, but even better we are justified by trusting in Jesus Christ alone weather we have ever been told about this or weather we have ever read the bible or ever belonged to any organized church denomination or not.
And so I am going to ask how do you view justification and what part it plays in Gods devine plan for mankind? Personaly I see it appears to be a free gift from God just as grace is a free gift of God to uswords.
I know that Acts 13:39 tells us that all who turst in him ( Jesus Christ alone ) are justified from all things which we could not be justified by the Law of Moses, and with that weather we have ever been told about it or not it is still true, because it was already true before I ever heard.
And in Romans 3:28 we see where it is concluded that a man is justified BY FAITH without the deeds of the law, that doesn't mean we are lawless, we are given grace.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Dear Firewalker: I'm not sure if this accurately answers your question, but here's what I currently have in my notes on justification:
Galatians 2:16: having perceived that a man is not being justified by works of law, except alone through the faith OF Christ Jesus, we also believe in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by the faith OF Christ and not by works of law, seeing that by works of law shall no flesh at all be justified. (Concordant Literal New Testament)
Galatians 2:20: With Christ have I been crucified, yet I am living; no longer I, but living in me is Christ. Now that which I am now living in flesh, I am living in faith that is OF the Son of God, Who loves me, and gives Himself up for me. (Concordant Literal New Testament)
Romans 3:22: yet a righteousness of God THROUGH Jesus Christ's faith, for all, and on all who are believing, for there is no distinction, (Concordant Literal New Testament) - The way I (GraceFull) understand this verse is that God's righteousness via Jesus' faith (notice that it's Jesus faith - not ours) is not confined to believers, but as the verse says, it's for "all AND ... all that believe: for THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE." The verse speaks of two different groups here - those who believe AND all others (those who don't yet believe). In Philippians 1:29, Paul says, "For to you IT HAS BEEN GRANTED for Christ's sake, not only to BELIEVE in Him, but also to suffer for His sake." Belief (faith) is granted (gifted to us by Him and not anything we can muster up ourselves (Ephesians 2:8). Paul also says in 1 Timothy 1:13b-14: "Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in UNBELIEF, and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus." As Jesus said in John 15:5, apart from Him, we can do NOTHING!!!
Good post. I hope to answer at a more convenient time.
QuoteRom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
Years ago I heard a definition of Just-ti-fied as Just-as-if-I-never-did-it.
From answers.com
To declare free of blame; absolve.
To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God
Justificatation is a free gift of grace...IMO
Quote from: bhark54 on October 23, 2007, 11:24:00 PM
QuoteRom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
Years ago I heard a definition of Just-ti-fied as Just-as-if-I-never-did-it.
From answers.com
To declare free of blame; absolve.
To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God
Justificatation is a free gift of grace...IMO
I like it!
so..
God created life.
Because of his love, life is justified.
:girlangel:
makes sense to me. gives me a better outlook too... :gpg:
if God can see white instead of stains...i should be looking through his perspective
then life continues
Thanks for the imput, I appreciate all the responces, and am still looking forward to Hopefuls reply.
Yes, I understand that it is not our faith but the faith of Christ that justifies us, and as I have said in starting this thread that this was just as true before I ever heard the word as it is now, my personal believing has nothing to do with what Christ has aready done.
One of the main objects of this thread was to point out the manipulation that organized church religionists use to get the unaware caught up in the clutches of their church doctrines is that they lead people to believe they must earn or merit justification, salvation, faith and grace,, these things are given of God freely , every man in his own order, not by what you do or don't do for the formaly organized churches or anyone else, God doesn't need my help, I need his, and he provides the grace freely.
Again regarding religious teachings and doctrines most of us know that this is nothing new about religion, the religious institutions were teaching the same lies in Jesus day as they are today and he didn't hold any thing back from them when he told them what a den of vipors and self righteous hypocrites they were, or when he became angry with the money changing going on in the temple and chased the greedy changers out.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Quote from: fire walker on October 28, 2007, 08:45:13 AM
Thanks for the imput, I appreciate all the responces, and am still looking forward to Hopefuls reply.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Well ya know what? When I came back and read again, the Lord didn't give me anything to say! Believe me, you don't want to hear what I have to say when the Lord doesn't give me anything to say! :HeartThrob: Great thread though, Fire Walker.
:cloud9: Hi; my :2c:......sorry this is going to be a little long.....
Ro 4:2 - For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Ro 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace (true peace is the flesh no longer warring against the Spirit) with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ro 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified BY HIS BLOOD (blood of the Spirit Seed for flesh and natural blood cannot enter the kingdom heaven), we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Ro 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called
(outer court/Passover): and whom he called, them he also justified (inner court/Pentecost): and whom he justified, them he also glorified (Holy of Holies/Tabernacles).
There are several scriptures in there that line up with the understanding of the 3 compartments, and this is one of them.
Another is; Faith (outer court/without faith it is impossible to please Him)
Hope (inner court/Christ in you, the hope of glory)
Charity or love (Holy of Holies/no greater love has any man than this that he lay down his life for his friend/Abraham was God's friend).
Notice the progression. Abraham, who is called the father of our faith, was actually under the law. But by faith that he heard God, and by faith in God that He would keep His Word to him pertaining to his seed (which was the Spirit seed Christ IN the generations), he put his seed on the altar, knowing that even if He had him to kill the flesh (Issac) of that seed (Christ), God was able to raise up (another) seed to him, even if it was in the flesh of another son (after the flesh). This is why he told Isaac, God would provide the sacrifice. Christ IS the firstfruits offering.
This is why Abraham looked for a city (multiple habitations) made without hands (many membered body of Christ). He was looking for the multiple seed that was promised to him, and that seed was/is CHRIST. It was given to him to perceive the Spirit which is Christ, and to understand that the seed must be laid down/planted and allowed to "die", before it can bring forth the fruit of the righteousness that comes from faith in God and His ability to perform what He has spoken, even if it appears to be in direct contradiction to what He spoke previously. This is why it says the promise is unto SEED, and not SEEDS, as in many. God is going to perform what He has promised HIS SEED, and HIS seed is Christ in us, the hope of glory. It has nothing to do with the natural man that is us.
This is why Jesus speaking only what He heard His Father speak thru the SPIRIT of Christ, said to the Pharisees, paraphrasing here, if Abraham were your father, then you'd know Me, for before Abraham was, I AM. The Pharisees, looked at the flesh of the man Jesus, not knowing Who it was that was speaking to them. And so the religious spirit of the Pharisees that dwells in the heart of all men, kept us from knowing who it was that was speaking to us, also. But right before a lamb appears on Mt. Zion, this religious "leader" is exposed and dealt with.
Christ the seed, whom we meet in the inner court baptism IS the grace of God (divided into 5 fold gifts/workings of the Spirit), and it is this seed that we had to lay down to come outside the camp to "die", laying down all the promises He gave us, IN FAITH, knowing that what He spoke He will perform even if it doesn't appear to be so now. This is the true circumcision of Abraham, and it cuts thru the lust of the eyes (that which appears to be GOOD), the lust of the flesh (that which makes us feel good about our flesh nature and want to hang onto to whatever feeds it), and the pride of life (that which is produced by the union of the two others).
Though many may be unaware of it, THIS is the faith we are justified by, and are being justified now. It didn't APPEAR to be good, so our contemporaries didn't understand why we left the callings, titles, family member's acceptance or even presence in our lives, and the fellowship of the flesh behind. But Abraham left his kindred, country, and his father's house also.
It didn't feel good to our own flesh nature to be ridiculed, called backslidden, everything but a Christian, ect., and the lust of the flesh in us tried to pull all of us back into the fold, wanting a false comforter/false mother to make us feel better about the death of the cross, not understanding that both us and CHRIST had to "die", after taking on the image of sinful flesh, before we could (together) be resurrected and seated at the right hand of the FATHER, for we know that if we die together then we shall also be raised together.
And we were told that the gospel is......the death, burial, and resurrection of CHRIST (the seed). If the gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost. But we are not lost, the Father has called us out of the darkness of the carnal mind and into the light of the glorious gospel. The just shall live by faith. Blessings to all........