I've gained some interest in the historian Josephus. Gary A. notes him while writing of some of the fulfillments in 70 AD, in that he states Josephus describes how many of the Jewish leaders went into a basement area of the temple and were burned up with their treasures.
I've begun some looking into Josephus, and I was surprised to find information that appears to indicate that he believed in an eternal hellfire. He references Plato in the writing, and I gather Josephus did not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. Perhaps he had much historical knowledge but still blinded to many things spiritual?
http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/discourse-greeks-hades/chapter-1.html
Any thoughts on this, and on Josephus in general?
Joshpus was seen as traitor by the Jews.
He was loyal to the Romans and was no Jew (anymore).
So likely he also followed one of the many Roman religions.
Or perhaps he mixed some religions.
I think he was the first Catholic :laughing7:
St. Josephus, eh? :bigGrin:
Seriously, if he was loyal to the Romans and followed a Roman religion, then that could explain some things then about his theology. :thumbsup:
Do you think he was at least trustworthy as a historian?
Quote from: jabcat on December 25, 2009, 08:25:51 PM
St. Josephus, eh? :bigGrin:
St. Josephus is the patron of carpentry. Earthly father of Jesus.
All who are called James are not NT writers :laughing7:
I'm named after a Roman general. Whoops :Sparkletooth:
QuoteSeriously, if he was loyal to the Romans and followed a Roman religion, then that could explain some things then about his theology. :thumbsup:
Romans didn't really mind what God or gods you bowed to. As long as you also did so to one of their gods.
QuoteDo you think he was at least trustworthy as a historian?
I think he was a good historian. But that said many historians are not 100% unbiased. Especially not in those times. I bet he has to take great care what he wrote. The number one priority is avoiding to insult (any high ranking person in) the empire.
That said I think he was trusworthy on what he wrote about Jesus.
It fits the Biblical writings and contains nothing bad about the Roman rulers.
He writes about wars and bloodshed. But that was everyday life back then. And likely a display of power.
I beleive there were a few Roman centurion's who beleived.
Matthew 8;9 the centurian replied, Lord, I do not deserve to
have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my
servant will be healed.
I noted Josephus writing speaking of the bosom of Abraham...
In the parable of Lazarus, Jesus spoke of the rich man and
Lazarus..and their two distinct judgements[or end]
I say, we have all had a 'rich man' that fed freely on the lusts
and enjoyments of this world'...and that we all have a 'poor man
'
of the spirit" that hungered and thirsted for righteousness,
peace, mercy and sahll have it in the Kingdom Of God
Quote from: sheila on December 25, 2009, 09:04:02 PMI beleive there were a few Roman centurion's who beleived.
And one got converted when he say water flowing out of Jesus when he stabbed Him with his spear.
(Hitler was obsessed by this socalled spear of destiny)
When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!" Mark 15:39
From http://www.bede.org.uk/Josephus.htm
The most important extra-biblical references to Jesus are found in the writings of Josephus. Although some have questioned the authenticity of the passages, modern scholarship has rightly recognized that one of them is completely authentic and the other, though embellished by Christian scribes, provides an authentic core of material confirming much about Jesus.
Having concluded that Josephus originally did refer to Jesus, would he have been in a place to offer any reliable information about him? Yes. According to leading New Testament scholar E.P. Sanders, "by the standards of the day, [Josephus] was a very good historian, and for some parts of his historical narratives he had excellent sources." (Sanders, The Historical Figure of Jesus, page 16). Moreover, having lived in Judaea and Galilee, Josephus would have been in an excellent position to learn from Jewish sources about the early Christians and Jesus. Indeed, according to Josephus' own writings, he was in Jerusalem at the time that James the brother of Jesus was martyred. Additionally, Josephus -- living as a member of the imperial family in Rome -- would have had unprecedented access to Roman records.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus
Josephus was an important apologist in the Roman world for the Jewish people and culture, particularly at a time of conflict and tension. He always remained, in his own eyes, a loyal and law-observant Jew. He went out of his way both to commend Judaism to educated Gentiles, and to insist on its compatibility with cultured Graeco-Roman thought. He constantly contended for the antiquity of Jewish culture, presenting its people as civilised, devout and philosophical. Eusebius reports that a statue of Josephus was erected in Rome.
........
Josephus' credibility as a historian has been questioned — his works are usually dismissed as Roman propaganda or as a personal or Jewish apologetic, aimed at rehabilitating his reputation in history.
........
Josephan scholarship in the 19th and early 20th century became focused on Josephus' relationship to the sect of the Pharisees (does that answer your Hades question Jabcat?). He was consistently portrayed as a member of the sect, but nevertheless viewed as a villainous traitor to his own nation[citation needed] — a view which became known as the classical concept of Josephus.
........
All works by Flavius Josephus=>Website (http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/index.htm#aoj)
All works by Flavius Josephus=>1234 page .pdf (http://www.swartzentrover.com/cotor/E-Books/christ/josephus/Works%20of%20Flavius%20Josephus.pdf)
Quote from: jabcat on December 25, 2009, 09:32:16 PM
Having concluded that Josephus originally did refer to Jesus, would he have been in a place to offer any reliable information about him? Yes. According to leading New Testament scholar E.P. Sanders, "by the standards of the day, [Josephus] was a very good historian, and for some parts of his historical narratives he had excellent sources."
Depents how Sanders defines "standards of that day".....
http://www.askelm.com/star/star009.htm
Whatever the case Father made things hard to figure out.
Some anchor points would have ended lots of debate. Like once in while "....??? years since creation...."