John Chapter 11:25

[CHB]

I believe that everyone is alive after physical death.  I also believe that in this life and the next, we can be separated from God, and this is a type of death.

Hi Molly,

Could you please explain this a little bit more?  You said "everyone is alive after physical death". If this is so why a resurrection, or do you think there will be a resurrection? I don't understand. How do you see the resurrection? If everyone is alive after death, where are they.

You said, "we can be separated from God in this life and the next. I know we can be separated from God in this life but would you explain about the next?

CHB

[Molly]

Hi CHB,

I'm not sure my personal beliefs are that important, but yes, I do believe there will be a resurrection of our physical bodies--there will be two resurrections according to the Bible.

I also know I don't need this body to remain 'alive.' 

I think our 'separation ' from God in this life is a matter of perception.  It will be the same in the next life. 

Where are they?  I think it depends.  Jesus said Lazarus was 'asleep.'  Sleep's ok, but not all will sleep [koimao].  A lot of the people I see at the mall are likewise asleep.  I don't believe in Hell, except one of our own making. Hell is an unsound mind.   I trust God and his goodness, mercy, and justice to do what is right by everyone.

Like I said, I expect to remain fully conscious and to spend eternity with Jesus and his friends.  :icon_king:


John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

[Beloved Servant]

The body of everyone will die.
The spirit of some will not die (in LoF perhaps)

I have no intention of laying this body into the dust.
I am eternal! Spirit, soul and body!
That! IS the promise! THAT is the hope of glory!
Die if you want to WhiteWings,
I will collect my inheritance!

[jabcat]

I believe it is not a one time confession but a continuous walk.
As I realize that sometimes I'm not remaining in Him and there I'm dead because I sin, but when I remain in Him, when I stand in His rest, I do not sin and I have life.

He is the life, those that remain/believe in Him to the end will not die (spiritually) during that time and even though they will die(physically), that death will not remove them from Him.

That may not be clear...only my  :2c:
:happygrin:

Hi Q.  In the final analysis, I probably agree with the spirit of your post, and we may be saying much the same things - just a little differently.   :bigGrin:   I believe we are born from above with a "one-time", specific event - a visitation by the Holy Spirit that brings us into Christ - but then He takes us on that lifelong walk, further into obedience and maturity as sons of God.

A few verses I look at are;

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."  Phil. 1:6

It's not our efforts, it's His works of grace through us;   "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."  Gal. 5:4  I interpret that to mostly be describing if we've stopped looking to the cross and depending on Him, and have begun to attempt to justify ourselves through our own strengths and effort.

So both daily, and in the end, He ensures the outcome;  "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."  Ephesians 2:10

Blessings, James.

[Quaesitor]

I believe it is not a one time confession but a continuous walk.
As I realize that sometimes I'm not remaining in Him and there I'm dead because I sin, but when I remain in Him, when I stand in His rest, I do not sin and I have life.

He is the life, those that remain/believe in Him to the end will not die (spiritually) during that time and even though they will die(physically), that death will not remove them from Him.

That may not be clear...only my  :2c:
:happygrin:

Hi Q.  In the final analysis, I probably agree with the spirit of your post, and we may be saying much the same things - just a little differently.   :bigGrin:   I believe we are born from above with a "one-time", specific event - a visitation by the Holy Spirit that brings us into Christ - but then He takes us on that lifelong walk, further into obedience and maturity as sons of God.

A few verses I look at are;

"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."  Phil. 1:6

It's not our efforts, it's His works of grace through us;   "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."  Gal. 5:4  I interpret that to mostly be describing if we've stopped looking to the cross and depending on Him, and have begun to attempt to justify ourselves through our own strengths and effort.

So both daily, and in the end, He ensures the outcome;  "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."  Ephesians 2:10

Blessings, James.

That's about what I had in mind.
:bigGrin:

[Beloved Servant]

25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

It feels like I am missing something here.  It says the one who believes in me will live even though he dies.  That seems simple enough.  But, then it states the one who lives by believing in me will never die.  Is Jesus talking about two different people?  Or is he just restating in other words for emphasis?

There is no reason to take the Lord's Words other than spoken.
Believe and live.

[CHB]

Like I said, I expect to remain fully conscious and to spend eternity with Jesus and his friends.

Molly, I pray you are right.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

The body of everyone will die.
The spirit of some will not die (in LoF perhaps)

I have no intention of laying this body into the dust.
I am eternal! Spirit, soul and body!
That! IS the promise! THAT is the hope of glory!
Die if you want to WhiteWings,
I will collect my inheritance!

Have a drink on me when I take a nap David :winkgrin:

I never understood even a single post of people who say we never die.
I can accept the spirit stay alive and immediately goes to God.
But the body of flesh...Isn't that really dead? Aren't there real bodies in the graves?

So David can you answer me in simple terms.
Say you are in a room with some people. You die on the spot. Will those people see your dead body or will you, including your body, suddenly disappear?
Im only asking about your body of flesh.

[Beloved Servant]

Hi WW,

If I die "on the spot" in front of a group of people, it will be just as any other person that drops dead.
They will call 911 and let the authorities take my body to the morgue.


BUT!
That's is not what the Sons of God speak of when they express the hope of glory.
Since Jesus tasted death once for ALL, I have no intention of having dust thrown on my face.

The promise is to walk eternally with the Father on these very feet that I stand on now.
The parousia of Christ in me.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: A thought just occured to me on this text. If you believe, then you shall never die. I think it's fair to say Lazarus believed, yet he died. Earlier it's implied that Jesus tarried getting there. It could be said He's "tarrying" in "getting here now", and ever since.

So there were two types of believers there, the living and the dead, yet when He appears on the scene proclaiming He is the last day, both the living and the dead are "caught up" out of death/darkness brought on by the carnal mind's propensity for sinning unto death. Just a thought to run with.....Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

I've just read "The restitution of all things" by Andrew Jukes. (book from Gary's site)

Jukes says Jesus the Greek does not say that Jesus saves us from death but Jesus saves us out of death. (or by death)

[CHB]

Would someone please tell me what they think about this idea, or how they see it? 

I always thought we would be like Jesus as far as dying and being resurrected. When Jesus was resurrected he didn't leave his body behind. Paul also talked as if we would be clothed UPON, {like putting on a coat} that is we would be resurrected with these bodies and PUT ON immortality. Otherwords, these bodies we have now will be changed into spiritual bodies when we are resurrected .

I find it strange that our spirit goes on at death to be with God. That we will be knowing of things, that we will be alive. If we are alive, why resurrect our old dust bodies from the ground? What need will we have of them if we are already in heaven with God, having a good old time?  Is God going to put our spirits back into our dead bodies? If so, why?

Am I wrong?

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Even if it are old bodies they very likely are "upgraded". I can't imagine blind people will be blind for eternity. Or handicaped people only be able to lay in bed for eternity.

[Cardinal]

Would someone please tell me what they think about this idea, or how they see it? 

I always thought we would be like Jesus as far as dying and being resurrected. When Jesus was resurrected he didn't leave his body behind. Paul also talked as if we would be clothed UPON, {like putting on a coat} that is we would be resurrected with these bodies and PUT ON immortality. Otherwords, these bodies we have now will be changed into spiritual bodies when we are resurrected .

I find it strange that our spirit goes on at death to be with God. That we will be knowing of things, that we will be alive. If we are alive, why resurrect our old dust bodies from the ground? What need will we have of them if we are already in heaven with God, having a good old time?  Is God going to put our spirits back into our dead bodies? If so, why?

Am I wrong?

CHB

:cloud9: Interesting thought......since He's the pattern Son, why didn't (IF He didn't) His spirit return to the Father immediately following death? Instead we read we went into Sheol and raised the dead souls from there. Or did His spirit return to the Father (to me His spirit is as His blood) entering in to "the Most Holy place" to remove those sins from those in Sheol (and those of the living, as well)? Day of Atonement, sins are removed; all other days they are just covered. Points to ponder......? Blessings....

[Quaesitor]

Reading the Scriptures about the spirit, what I see is that the spirit in man is the spiriti of God, Paul said in Athen, in Him we move and live.
When a man dies the spirit return to God from where it comes.
As was said in another thread, we are not spirit only like Plato tought but a combination of God's spirit in a dust body animated by the animal life (soul).
Like the word love has many words in greek, I find the word life having at least 2 words in greek, bios and zoe. One is carnal/animal/beastly and the other is spiritual/divine.
That's all really new to me... :dontknow:

[CHB]

Even if it are old bodies they very likely are "upgraded". I can't imagine blind people will be blind for eternity. Or handicaped people only be able to lay in bed for eternity.

I agree, we will be made whole but what I don't understand is, if our spirit is with Christ will he raise our bodies from the dust and put our spirits back into those bodies? To me this just doesn't make any sense. Also God BREATHED into Adam and then he became a living soul. Isn't this breath is what returns to God. I can't remember which verse but in Hebrew, spirit means breath. I guess this could bring up the question, what is the spirit in man? Right now I am interested in what happens to us after we die.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

I agree, we will be made whole but what I don't understand is, if our spirit is with Christ will he raise our bodies from the dust and put our spirits back into those bodies? To me this just doesn't make any sense. Also God BREATHED into Adam and then he became a living soul. Isn't this breath is what returns to God. I can't remember which verse but in Hebrew, spirit means breath. I guess this could bring up the question, what is the spirit in man? Right now I am interested in what happens to us after we die.

Return to God. Depends a bit on how you view that. I don't think things return exacrly to their former state becaus ethat would basicly means creation gets undone.

[Molly]

8 This is why it says:
"When he ascended on high,

he led captives in his train

and gave gifts to men."

9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

--Eph 4


"lower" [earthly regions]

G2737
κατώτερος
katōteros
kat-o'-ter-os
Compound from G2736; inferior (locally, of Hades): - lower.



18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

--1 Peter 3

[Molly]

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

--John 14



Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

[CHB]

I agree, we will be made whole but what I don't understand is, if our spirit is with Christ will he raise our bodies from the dust and put our spirits back into those bodies? To me this just doesn't make any sense. Also God BREATHED into Adam and then he became a living soul. Isn't this breath is what returns to God. I can't remember which verse but in Hebrew, spirit means breath. I guess this could bring up the question, what is the spirit in man? Right now I am interested in what happens to us after we die.

Return to God. Depends a bit on how you view that. I don't think things return exacrly to their former state becaus ethat would basicly means creation gets undone.

Ecc. 12:7) Then shall the dust return to the earth AS IT WAS: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(Job 34:14) If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit AND HIS BREATH: All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

(Psalms 104: 29) thou taketh away their breath , they die,and return to their dist.

CHB

[Beloved Servant]

2 Corinthians 5:17;
So that, if anyone is
in Christ, there is a new creation:
the primitive passed by.
Lo! there has come new!

[jabcat]

I agree, we will be made whole but what I don't understand is, if our spirit is with Christ will he raise our bodies from the dust and put our spirits back into those bodies? To me this just doesn't make any sense. Also God BREATHED into Adam and then he became a living soul. Isn't this breath is what returns to God. I can't remember which verse but in Hebrew, spirit means breath. I guess this could bring up the question, what is the spirit in man? Right now I am interested in what happens to us after we die.

Return to God. Depends a bit on how you view that. I don't think things return exacrly to their former state becaus ethat would basicly means creation gets undone.

Ecc. 12:7) Then shall the dust return to the earth AS IT WAS: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(Job 34:14) If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit AND HIS BREATH: All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

(Psalms 104: 29) thou taketh away their breath , they die,and return to their dist.

CHB

http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/christian_life/who_lives_who_dies_7187.msg81273.html#msg81273

[Beloved Servant]

Nice.
Thanks, James.

[Molly]

2 Corinthians 5:17;
So that, if anyone is
in Christ, there is a new creation:
the primitive passed by.
Lo! there has come new!

Yes, and we will no longer have bodies of dust.


1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...we shall be changed.


"moment"
G823
ἄτομος
atomos
at'-om-os
From G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G5114; uncut, that is, (by implication) indivisible (an "atom" of time): - moment.

[Beloved Servant]

"Lo! there has come new!"

But "has come" is present tense.