Identifying evil

[jabcat]

I have never owned a gun either. I don't think real born again's as in "The wind blows where it wills and you hear the sound of it but you don't know where it is going or from whence it comes, so it is with everyone who is born of the spirit" rely on guns to much. :o)
But if they did they would probably use them for shooting rats and poisonous snakes and pedophiles and such.

Hopefully none of us will never need one to protect ourselves or our family from someone trying to molest or murder them - such as that mentioned pedophile or crackhead or otherwise sociopath.

If anyone wants to avoid tools of protection and hope they're divinely protected, even if they had the means to prepare, then that's between them and God.  Ultimately, God either protects or harvests the wheat - according to His will.

I was talking to my son the other day about it, who is known for his succinct one-liners.  We were talking about the need to trust God, but I also said "we don't just stand in the middle of the road with our eyes closed either".  He simply said "some people do".   :hihat:

As I mentioned earlier, when circumstances were about to change and their lives were going to be in greater danger,  He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."  Luke 22:36   

I think everyone should be led by the Spirit as to what they should do - taking into account both God's sufficiency and His admonition to "do not tempt the Lord your God".   However He leads, however He provides individually.   :2c:

[reFORMer]

One of the evils commonly failed to be identified is belief in faith.  We are not saved by faith!  If I was audibly speaking to you I could pause and keep what I'm about to say better hidden from you while you object to this statement:  We are not saved by faith.  This misconception leads to people's untimely death.  There are untimely deaths.  It seems I remember a verse that says, "Be not overly righteous; for, why would you die before your time?"  Here it says, "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?" (Ec 7¹⁶, KJV)

An earnest American Indian Christian fellow in his 40's, very dear to a friend of mine who went with him to an Emergency Room, exercised real faith as I understand it.  The diagnosis was a ruptured abdominal aneurism. -- More Than 1 Million Americans Are Living With An Undiagnosed Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm (AAA) -- It was something they could easily treat, sewing up the rupture, suctioning the blood, cleaning the abdominal cavity.  Left untreated he would die withing a couple of hours, no more than a couple days.  They left ER praising the Lord, firmly committed to Jesus for healing and praying in tongues.  The fellow kept repeatedly calling on the name of Jesus..."Jesus, Jesus, Jesus."  He was dead in two hours.  We are not saved by faith.

Right now, to oversimplify, I have a friend that is exercising his confession of faith doctrine, saying he has already been healed by the stripes of Jesus.  He must not admit something different lest he break all he's built up by his good confession.  God, "Calls the things that are not as though they already were." (Rm)  and other scripture is on his mind.  He is set against going to the doctor.  I see this as demanding God fit in our preconceived "miracle box."  Keep praying while you call the elders of the Church to pray and anoint with oil.  Chase after one whose work in the world is wisdom about the human body, its diseases and medicine or therapy that can help.  That is, if you want healing.  The blessing of God is needed to make any of our efforts work.  A well known Biblical proverb is, "Laughter does good like a medicine."  Here not only is scriptural medicine refused, I suppose we can't allow laughter just because it would do us good.

We are not saved by faith.  We are saved by grace.  What kind of faith gets defined as that which accords with grace, which is God's activity.  You can't twist His arm behind His back to force Him into performing for you.  He can't be bought either.  There is no disciplined path that can bring about God working for you.  His acts are freely performed.  Without basing it on grace, faith can be a terrible mental work.  Salvation is by grace through faith.  The word is a body for the spirit that quickens according to that word.  "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God."  God's actual speaking to us precedes faith that avails.

Many have no experience with God upon which their faith is based.  Instead they have sewn together this verse here with that Bible phrase over there, like the fig leaf apron of their parents which could not effectually cover.  But, "what is born of God sins not," says the apostle.  It doesn't miss the target.  Grace, "The result of having the need met, of having been filled full," as is the meaning of the original Greek, this is the foundation upon which we can confidently rely and place our trust.  How all this works and our place in it we are to soberly evaluate.  In the midst of life and death matters is no time to too late find you've taken too high a seat at the feast and are being told to go down to a lower seat.

[ded2daworld]

I wanted to make it clear that I do not feel my position is somehow superior - it is not.
I've struggled with the question for 40 years and still am torn. I only know what has happened to me.

In desperate financial situation, I took a job repossessing autos.
One time I was shot at and the bullet literally parted my hair. Twice guns were pulled on me point blank range.
One of them was 2 hours before a riot started in that part of Miami. The other one he kept hopping from left foot to right foot, waving the gun 5 ft. away from me shouting, put the car down, put the car down.
Ten years later in financial straights again I took a second job as a bouncer. Twice I had knives pulled on me
within 5 ft.

During either these times, I never carried a weapon of any kind and me praying I wouldn't have to seriously hurt
somebody else.
I admit, I now keep a baseball bat next to my bed and praying I'll never have to use it but frankly, I'm glad other Christians
are armed. It's still a tough question. A christian friend of mine died recently(heart attack) that had over 50 guns. There is a good chance at least one of the guns will be left to me. I surely won't refuse it but seeing this as if God is telling me, NOW it's time for YOU to be armed.

[jabcat]

I wanted to make it clear that I do not feel my position is somehow superior - it is not.
I've struggled with the question for 40 years and still am torn. I only know what has happened to me.

In desperate financial situation, I took a job repossessing autos.
One time I was shot at and the bullet literally parted my hair. Twice guns were pulled on me point blank range.
One of them was 2 hours before a riot started in that part of Miami. The other one he kept hopping from left foot to right foot, waving the gun 5 ft. away from me shouting, put the car down, put the car down.
Ten years later in financial straights again I took a second job as a bouncer. Twice I had knives pulled on me
within 5 ft.

During either these times, I never carried a weapon of any kind and me praying I wouldn't have to seriously hurt
somebody else.
I admit, I now keep a baseball bat next to my bed and praying I'll never have to use it but frankly, I'm glad other Christians
are armed. It's still a tough question. A christian friend of mine died recently(heart attack) that had over 50 guns. There is a good chance at least one of the guns will be left to me. I surely won't refuse it but seeing this as if God is telling me, NOW it's time for YOU to be armed.

:thumbsup:

[dajomaco]

If you step out there, you had better have faith in your weapon.
Did you strip it properly? Where are the rounds? How many rounds do I have?
How many times have I used this weapon? Does it jam? Once I step out there is no going back.   

I didn't step out there, they stepped in. Lord have mercy. He did .I am free.

I have been training with my new weapons.

Real tears now not tattoos .

[Lazarus Short]

ded, your gun-owning friend dead of a heart attack puts me in mind of my own situation years ago.  I used to be a fairly hard-core survivalist, but in time, I realized that survival by the arm of flesh was futile, as [almost] no one gets out of here alive.  I stopped being so survival-minded, and got more content with my life and prospects as they were.  I came to realize that survival, real survival, depended on one's relationship with God, more than guns, stored food, and get-away packs.  Just sayin'.

[jabcat]

If anyone has the desire to not arm themselves, great.  If someone's faith is such they absolutely know they can call down angels at any moment and without fail 100% of the time, great.  If someone just wants to simply trust the Lord to the point of "whatever happens I'm OK with", then that's really great too.  In the end, that's probably the truth for a believer anyway.

Just a few things come to mind though;

do we lock our doors at night?
do we wear a seat belt?  (besides micah  :laughing7:)
should a believer stand in the middle of the road with their eyes closed?
should a believer work to provide food for self and family, or just trust it will be provided?
if someone is attempting to rape, capture, or murder someone within our reach, should a believer just stand by and watch?

IMO, God provides a way, according to His will for each us individually, to do practical things to get by in life.  If we don't, He either may decide to protect us, or "protect" us by calling us home (how much possible suffering in the meantime, if there were other means offered beforehand?).  If someone absolutely has not been provided some other means of taking care of life's needs, including protection, then still, God will either protect or call home, according to His will.

So IMO, as one considers one day as the next, while one honors the day - they both do it unto the Lord.  His will be done.

[jabcat]

ded, your gun-owning friend dead of a heart attack puts me in mind of my own situation years ago.  I used to be a fairly hard-core survivalist, but in time, I realized that survival by the arm of flesh was futile, as [almost] no one gets out of here alive.  I stopped being so survival-minded, and got more content with my life and prospects as they were.  I came to realize that survival, real survival, depended on one's relationship with God, more than guns, stored food, and get-away packs.  Just sayin'.

I agree with that Laz.  But don't you think there's a reasonable middle ground (per my post above)?  Although, I believe God truly may have one person be very prepared ("bring a [money] pouch, knapsack, and buy a sword"), while have another in total humility just surrender, kneel, and be stoned to death.  Each must follow the Lord's leading in their own life, including considering those any person may be "responsible for". 

I've struggled with this, and am currently at the place that I believe God wouldn't have us trust in "horses and chariots", that our trust should be in Him.  However, I also am reminded of Joseph, Noah, and of Jesus' words to His disciples, to be prepared and make provisions - including arming themselves.

The prudent man sees evil and hides.  The simple keep going and suffer for it.   Proverbs 27:12

However, my belief is this;  prepare as God enables, but realize that even if prepared, it's still all in His hands, whether one stands or falls.  He either enables the effective use of the tool He's allowed and provided, or if it's His will and His time, He will call us home.  :2c:

[ded2daworld]

Amen Jabcat. My friend was a survivalist and couldn't stand that I don't have a ton of meal replacement meals that last 25 years, don't have guns, don't live out in the woods, don't have an alarm system, etc. - All the stuff he thought was so important.
He was totally prepared for everything except for his own death while literally building a bigger storehouse.

[Molly]

Then it came to pass, at the end of two full years, that Pharaoh had a dream; and behold, he stood by the river. Suddenly there came up out of the river seven cows, fine looking and fat; and they fed in the meadow. Then behold, seven other cows came up after them out of the river, ugly and gaunt, and stood by the other cows on the bank of the river. And the ugly and gaunt cows ate up the seven fine looking and fat cows. So Pharaoh awoke. He slept and dreamed a second time; and suddenly seven heads of grain came up on one stalk, plump and good. Then behold, seven thin heads, blighted by the east wind, sprang up after them. And the seven thin heads devoured the seven plump and full heads. So Pharaoh awoke, and indeed, it was a dream.

Now it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled, and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt and all its wise men. And Pharaoh told them his dreams, but there was no one who could interpret them for Pharaoh. Then the chief butler spoke to Pharaoh, saying: "I remember my faults this day. When Pharaoh was angry with his servants, and put me in custody in the house of the captain of the guard, both me and the chief baker, we each had a dream in one night, he and I. Each of us dreamed according to the interpretation of his own dream. Now there was a young Hebrew man with us there, a servant of the captain of the guard. And we told him, and he interpreted our dreams for us; to each man he interpreted according to his own dream. And it came to pass, just as he interpreted for us, so it happened. He restored me to my office, and he hanged him." Then Pharaoh sent and called Joseph, and they brought him quickly out of the dungeon; and he shaved, changed his clothing, and came to Pharaoh.

And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have had a dream, and there is no one who can interpret it. But I have heard it said of you that you can understand a dream, to interpret it." So Joseph answered Pharaoh, saying, "It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace."



Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "The dreams of Pharaoh are one; God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do: The seven good cows are seven years, and the seven good heads are seven years; the dreams are one. And the seven thin and ugly cows which came up after them are seven years, and the seven empty heads blighted by the east wind are seven years of famine. This is the thing which I have spoken to Pharaoh. God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do. Indeed seven years of great plenty will come throughout all the land of Egypt; but after them seven years of famine will arise, and all the plenty will be forgotten in the land of Egypt; and the famine will deplete the land. So the plenty will not be known in the land because of the famine following, for it will be very severe. And the dream was repeated to Pharaoh twice because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass."

"Now therefore, let Pharaoh select a discerning and wise man, and set him over the land of Egypt. Let Pharaoh do this, and let him appoint officers over the land, to collect one-fifth of the produce of the land of Egypt in the seven plentiful years. And let them gather all the food of those good years that are coming, and store up grain under the authority of Pharaoh, and let them keep food in the cities. Then that food shall be as a reserve for the land for the seven years of famine which shall be in the land of Egypt, that the land may not perish during the famine."

.

So the advice was good in the eyes of Pharaoh and in the eyes of all his servants. And Pharaoh said to his servants, "Can we find such a one as this, a man in whom is the Spirit of God?" Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Inasmuch as God has shown you all this, there is no one as discerning and wise as you. You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you." And Pharaoh said to Joseph, "See, I have set you over all the land of Egypt." Then Pharaoh took his signet ring off his hand and put it on Joseph's hand; and he clothed him in garments of fine linen and put a gold chain around his neck. And he had him ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried out before him, "Bow the knee!" So he set him over all the land of Egypt. Pharaoh also said to Joseph, "I am Pharaoh, and without your consent no man may lift his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt." And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnath-Paaneah. And he gave him as a wife Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On. So Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.

And to Joseph were born two sons before the years of famine came, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him. Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: "For God has made me forget all my toil and all my father's house." And the name of the second he called Ephraim: "For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction."

Then the seven years of plenty which were in the land of Egypt ended, and the seven years of famine began to come, as Joseph had said. The famine was in all lands, but in all the land of Egypt there was bread. So when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread. Then Pharaoh said to all the Egyptians, "Go to Joseph; whatever he says to you, do." The famine was over all the face of the earth, and Joseph opened all the storehouses and sold to the Egyptians. And the famine became severe in the land of Egypt. So all countries came to Joseph in Egypt to buy grain, because the famine was severe in all lands.

--Gen 41

[ded2daworld]

Wha-a-a-t??? :dontknow:

[jabcat]

Wha-a-a-t??? :dontknow:

:laugh:

I'd say she's showing scripture about being prepared.  I had mentioned Joseph as an example of one preparing, and I think that's sort of a followup.   :2c:  (Awesome passage, BTW.)  Thank God for His provisions.

[eaglesway]

the word evil is used 613 times in the KJV(OT+NT). The Hebrew word "ra'ah", which is translated "evil" in Genesis 2:9 is actually used 668 times in the Old Testament alone.


In one example

Gen 24:50  Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said,"The thing proceedeth from the LORD: we cannot  speak unto thee bad(H7541 ra'ah) or good". Here the useage is about negative or positive. Paraphrased, "The Lord has done this, "We cannot gainsay or approve."

In another

Gen 26:29  That thou wilt do us no hurt,(7541 ra'ah) as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good, and have sent thee away in peace: thou art now the blessed of the LORD.

Here evil means harm, and the person being asked to do no harm has no evil intent.

By these and other examples(to numerous to list) "ra'ah" does not always mean "evil as in wickedness" but is defined in the context as calamity, hurt, bad, negative, gainsay, oppose, etc.

In My Opinion, :o), if God creates "evil as in wickedness" then the apostle James is deceived and does not understand what he says. To me, that God and the devil are "teammates" or that the devil is God's "marionette" misunderstands the fundamental relationship between God and the creation. God is "demonstating His wisdom through the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms". Why? What have they to learn and how to learn it? They are God's puppets!

Yet, the language of scripture presents another view along side the view that God is ultimatley in control of all and causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will. What is He teaching us in between the lines? :o) How can we learn it if we won't look there?

In the NAS

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
(Isa 45:5-7)

In the NIV

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(Isa 45:7)

In the AB

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical]  evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
(Isa 45:7)

This is at the very least an alternate view to the idea that the scripture teaches in one place that God creates "evil as in wickedness", and in another that God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He tempt anyman with "evil as in wickedness", but that man is the souce of his own "evil as in wickedess".

[Molly]

Wha-a-a-t??? :dontknow:

:laugh:

I'd say she's showing scripture about being prepared.  I had mentioned Joseph as an example of one preparing, and I think that's sort of a followup.   :2c:  (Awesome passage, BTW.)  Thank God for His provisions.

He hates to read.   :laugh:

Read THIS

God has shown Pharaoh what He is about to do.


God communicates to us in visions and dreams.  We know the truth, don't we?  He loves us and wants to protect us from evil.  If only we knew how to listen...

And to the one who listens and understands:


You shall be over my house, and all my people shall be ruled according to your word; only in regard to the throne will I be greater than you."

[ded2daworld]

See? This time you told me what point you were trying to make.
Ten people can just throw a quote or several quotes to post but if there is no accompanying input
Some of(mostly me :doh:) don't know what point is trying to be made.
We all "see" scripture slightly differently in what  it means to us and sometimes we read verses 10-20 times and still
haven't seen in it what others have. :friendstu:

[Lazarus Short]

Jabcat, I agree completely.  It's a matter of balance - prepare, but be aware that all your prepping may not keep you safe.  Know that ultimately it's all in God's capable Hands.  Did not God say that those who are destined to the sword, to the sword; those destined to die, to die; those destined for prison, to prison; etc?  Furthermore, don't worry, for in the end, we're all home free, anyway. :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

the word evil is used 613 times in the KJV(OT+NT). The Hebrew word "ra'ah", which is translated "evil" in Genesis 2:9 is actually used 668 times in the Old Testament alone.


In one example

Gen 24:50  Then Laban and Bethuel answered and said,"The thing proceedeth from the LORD: we cannot  speak unto thee bad(H7541 ra'ah) or good". Here the useage is about negative or positive. Paraphrased, "The Lord has done this, "We cannot gainsay or approve."

In another

Gen 26:29  That thou wilt do us no hurt,(7541 ra'ah) as we have not touched thee, and as we have done unto thee nothing but good, and have sent thee away in peace: thou art now the blessed of the LORD.

Here evil means harm, and the person being asked to do no harm has no evil intent.

By these and other examples(to numerous to list) "ra'ah" does not always mean "evil as in wickedness" but is defined in the context as calamity, hurt, bad, negative, gainsay, oppose, etc.

In My Opinion, :o), if God creates "evil as in wickedness" then the apostle James is deceived and does not understand what he says. To me, that God and the devil are "teammates" or that the devil is God's "marionette" misunderstands the fundamental relationship between God and the creation. God is "demonstating His wisdom through the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly realms". Why? What have they to learn and how to learn it? They are God's puppets!

Yet, the language of scripture presents another view along side the view that God is ultimatley in control of all and causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will. What is He teaching us in between the lines? :o) How can we learn it if we won't look there?

In the NAS

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
(Isa 45:5-7)

In the NIV

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(Isa 45:7)

In the AB

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical]  evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
(Isa 45:7)

This is at the very least an alternate view to the idea that the scripture teaches in one place that God creates "evil as in wickedness", and in another that God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He tempt anyman with "evil as in wickedness", but that man is the souce of his own "evil as in wickedess".

So basicly, you my friend just don't like the word evil and it's entire condensation to man, right? Evil is a dimension with many facets and with purpose. You don't seem to like the word evil, when it relates the the very one who created it for His  purpose. Evil only raising it's ugly head when man chooses to be delinquent. Man brings evil to the forefront because that is what man desires  Rom 8:20  For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope...
I'm surprised.

[jabcat]

Jabcat, I agree completely.  It's a matter of balance - prepare, but be aware that all your prepping may not keep you safe.  Know that ultimately it's all in God's capable Hands.  Did not God say...

:gimmefive:

[eaglesway]

Hi Micah,
    No, I don't consign all evil to man. I do consign a measure of the responsibility of wickedness to man. God need not forgive that for which we bare no responsibility.

Of cousre between you and I there is not much use to arguing it out  :LH: we see things differently on the level of my opinion that God has granted to man a measure of freedom to chose and that He holds us accountable for it.

If "everyman sins when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed" then the "provider of temptation" may vary, the devil, the impersonal principles of the "lust of the flesh and the pride of life", the "lust of the world and the pleasures of the mind"- whatever a persons view on that so be it- but God is not tempting anyone with evil- in my view.

[Molly]

Man is just a fall guy [I'm not excusing him, though].

These are the real culprits:


12 For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places.

--Eph 6

[Molly]

Even though you planned evil against me, God planned good to come out of it. This was to keep many people alive, as he is doing now.

---Gen 50:20



You meant it for evil, but God determined it for good, to save many people alive.

[micah7:9]

Hi Micah,
    No, I don't consign all evil to man. I do consign a measure of the responsibility of wickedness to man. God need not forgive that for which we bare no responsibility.

Of cousre between you and I there is not much use to arguing it out  :LH: we see things differently on the level of my opinion that God has granted to man a measure of freedom to chose and that He holds us accountable for it.

If "everyman sins when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed" then the "provider of temptation" may vary, the devil, the impersonal principles of the "lust of the flesh and the pride of life", the "lust of the world and the pleasures of the mind"- whatever a persons view on that so be it- but God is not tempting anyone with evil- in my view.

Gotcha, my friend and brother in Christ and His Love. PS I think you gave me that flu in one of your posts, feelin poorly. :sigh: :laugh:

[eaglesway]

Its a nasty bug, I hope you don't have it. :crywipe:

[micah7:9]

So evil is identified.... adversity, affliction, bad, calamity. And unless a person decides to use the word evil as the tool of the adversary, it ain't all that (evil) adversity, affliction, bad, calamity. And all the Lord God beheld was Gen 3:22  And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and adversity, affliction, bad, calamity: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

I've taken the privilege to insert, for better understanding.
Gen 2:9  And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and adversity, affliction, bad, calamity.
1Sa 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an adversity, affliction, bad, calamity spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1Sa 18:10  And it came to pass on the morrow, that the adversity, affliction, bad, calamity  spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
1Sa 19:9  And the adversity, affliction, bad, calamity  spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.
Deu 29:21  And the LORD shall separate him unto adversity, affliction, bad, calamity  out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
Jos 23:15  Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all adversity, affliction, bad, calamity   things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

In the NAS
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.
(Isa 45:5-7)
In the NIV
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
(Isa 45:7)
In the AB
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical]  evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
(Isa 45:7)

Or am I being too dizzy.

[ded2daworld]

As with Job, God allows the Evil one that He himself created to bring adversity, affliction, bad and calamity upon Job so, was responsible, in the sense that it was in the Plan of God that this should happen.

Micah - Ya never go dizzy using scripture to back a position. :Peace2: :laughing7: