I ask a very simple question here ?

[rosered]

  And   hope I can get some kind of imput  from others
   My husband  asked me  today  while we were  talking about  the Lord  and His will 
and said to me
  "  why  Are we here  to suffer if God loves us ?"
  and I could not for the life of me  give him any kind of answer ,  except to Glorify God  some how 
  I need some deep thinkers here  , I have no good thoughts to share with Him on why we are here struggling in a world  that is  so against 
  the Spirit of God and His Will ,  He said'' I  fail at it  all the time  and yet I got no answers from God about it ''..

  thanks for any replies 
  peace  in Christ rose

[martincisneros]

The only answers I've been able to come to have been through re-interpreting absolutely everything, whether New Testament or Old or anything/everything else through Mark chapter 4.  Jesus said in that chapter that if you didn't understand that particular teaching, then you'd be at a loss for understanding anything else that He said.  I'll post additional comments later, but want to hear President Bush's comments on the total financial crash we're just dodging by the skin of our teeth.

[Paul Hazelwood]

That is a very reasonable question, one that when we answer we hope that words are adequate enough.  There is one thing that I have found and that is that we cannot readily hope to convince anyone that suffering is the will of a loving God.   As you feel like maybe you have failed, understand that not being able to adequatly satisfy anothers inquiry does not mean that what you believe is incorrect.  However, questioning an inibility to answer is as well thoughtful and indicative that spiritual growth is impending.   Meaning when we question our beliefs we are in a position to learn.   

The development of faith comes to know this through a life of trials that have proven in our lives that certain things of the glory of God would not have come about any other way.

There are some things that just are.  Whether we think God could of made life a different way, he didn't and not liking that doesn't change anything.  A scientist might not like the direction of the rotation of the earth, but so what?

So, like it or not, life is a path of suffering to one degree or another.   So then, we need to resolve the fact of suffering rather than wish it was not that way.


The best analogy that I have been able to reason is the goal of earthly parents to shape and mould our own children in the way we think best.

Lets remove morality from the equation for a moment.  You can take any parent no matter how wrong we may think they are and all parents have one goal and that is to raise their children in a way that might make them worth something.  Even abusive parents can have a twisted mentality that the way they are raising their children is good for them somehow.

Of course all types of ways to raise children can be debated, but, there is one aspect of child rearing that is very very seldom challenged;  that is children will not often like the methods we choose to raise them in no matter what.

If we really are children of God and we are beings that cannot fully understand Gods ways and thoughts then it stands to reason that we can make a comparison between us and God in the same way we can compare young children to adult parents. 

How much further away in understanding would we be to a heavenly father that knows what is best for the learning of righteousness for his children.

Children, even in the most loving of families can express hatred for what the child feels it is going through when they do not get what they want or are disciplined for disobedience.

If we analyze the spiritual nature of our path to become spiritual beings far greater than anything we can guide our human children to be on earth, what suffering might we have to experience to end up worthy of such a destiny?


Hope this helps


Paul H

[sparrow]

The following is just my ideas.
I do not believe that God WANTS us to suffer. But we suffer, nonetheless because that is what this world IS...a study in contrasts.  If we only knew a perfect world, would we TRULY know how perfect it really was? No. We would not. We must first travel through this world so that we can understand God, and understand the immensity of...LOVE.

Perhaps we were with God before, and we came to earth to learn. To have our eyes opened.

The rain falls on the good and bad. If the rain only fell on the bad...then the motivation to love would be a shallow pursuit. We're here to learn about love and what it truly means. God doesn't cause suffering, Man without God causes suffering.

This world has to play out to the bitter end.
This world where man depends on man, instead of depending on God, instead of depending on LOVE.

To learn about something, sometimes you need to step back and observe from afar. Sometimes you have to have something taken away from you for a short while in order to fully appreciate it when you hold it in your hands again.

This life is but a necessary stepping stone on our journey back home.

peace.

[sparrow]

by the way, when I said "this world has to play out to the bitter end", I think that has a lot to do with the suffering. Meaning, as far as mankind will go with evil....there is nothing that man can do that God (being love) cannot fix or redeem. Evil will go as far as it will go, man will take it as far as it can go in this world... but the plan is that there is nothing more powerful than LOVE. That is what will be shown. That is a key lesson here.
LOVE will overcome all....
the evilest of evils..
LOVE WILL ULTIMATELY OVERCOME.

remember, we are here to learn, and this world is not our HOME!
We are travelling BACK HOME, but must travel through this world to get back there.
Any suffering here is but for a short time... though it seems endless. it is not.
Though evil seems to win... nothing could be further from the truth.
it's just an illusion.
Love has already won.

[rosered]

  Thanks Martin , I am going to go read Mark chapter 4   right now
  God bless you .. rose

   Thanks Paul , I  think  your right , being in a postion to learn  spiritually   and needing  Gods help and Faith is a   Big deal , I  believe that without ''faith it is impossible to please God ,   and doubting is a  bad thing ?  I was  struck by surprise  , like when a tree branch hits you in the face  when your walking and talking  along with someone , I was caught off guard  and it did sting  at the moment leaving me speechless ..  a first for a woman huh ? lol
  that is a  great  point !
  thanks God bless you !

  Sparrow  Thanks for taking the time to answer  my question ,
Yes, there is some kind of spiritual awaking  that Must  happen 

  and I do believe that is why  my husband feels this way !?
   He is wondering Why ? Why God , Why ?

awakening !   He did have  an experience a couple of years ago  , that I do believe  was the Lord    drawing him  to Himself /Jesus 
  My Husband , is trying   and reading   the Word and wants to be good  and do good , but finds he fails as do I  at times ,

and this is what is causing  him to  question , I just struggle with faliure in silence  , you know cry out to God and  repent in private , I am so tired of repenting / being sorry for my   ways / failures to keep doing good / personally
  you could say my soul is on  the line here , I guess ..
  and this has turned into an open confession .. hummm
   having a hard time  , and I guess there is good that could come from  this ''time '' ? 

  I love  God and want to please Him  but ,  my tests  of faith are  not up to par ,  that may be why I cannot answer  my husbands  question ,  I may be  doubting  also  myself , like  him   ?
   How  do you make the tree good and the fruit good  when  the old nature will not die at will ?   
I do pray for some relief ,  it is a hard pressed time  for my soul right now , and  my hubby  was just confirming / bringing it to Light   for my own struggle
  you see I can say anything  and it may sound right , but   in my doing   , thats where I am  doubting /  uncertain about

     maybe a castaway myself  , he already feels he is /my hubby 
  and you know , I know it is God  who is in power , not us , thats my only comfort in this ,
I have to ask myself do I love , the  in the  right way  ?  the  way I am supposed to LOVE The way God/Jesus  Loves us , to love one another  truely ?

  the age old question !
   we overcome in Love just as you say , but I find it is easy to say and  hard to do !
God sure has been merciful  in all this
   God bless you for making me think harder about  it all ,
  sure hope there is a end  that is  bitter / sweet  to it ,
  I am at battle thats for sure ...
     His peace to you all ..rose

[rosered]

  ps , Sparrow ,

  I do find Jesus words true , in that my love may be   waxing cold ..
I   know that  , I had more  love at  one time in my heart , than now  but I am so sick of  sin/ evil  , not just in this world /others, but in myself too :(
, I am so tired of failure/powerlessness  i could DIE and Yet I also Know Jesus NEVER FAILS  
Dont want to appear holy/good/pure   to men  and God knows my heart ,  be disgusting to Him / Jesus 
when I can say all matter of Good things  about God /Jesus  and cannot do any good at all
  I guess you could say  hypocrisy at its finest could be how I am feeling now ? my hubby too ? we are not doing good just talking about doing good , and even our talking becomes foolish jesting , I feel terrible/fear  !!!
  here is a silly
  example     we were talking  and he said  ''so and so'' /mans name   does  not like  Bush / president  and I said ,  he  must like peter than ?

  and my husband  said ,'' See ''  thats what I am talking about !''  this kind of thing  ,  we cannot be good all the time ! 
  to  me  this makes me think , I am double minded  and unstable in all my ways ?    this is what I hate   as well as letting    the Holy Spirit ''prick my conscience ''  and feel bad  for  behaving  as a fool but not  for Christs sake  , but  for the sake of being funny / vain

   Paul the apostle  knew  it was serious buisness  and  I am  so tired of feeling  this way , it makes me angry /guilty and worn out with  it all ...even trying  anymore whew.......  its hard to be good  when your bad  , I am  not in some warm bubble now feeling everything is OK ...
though I have been before ..

  Does anyone  else  have such battles  within  that comes out constantly like this ???

  God bless  rose

[Nathan]

Mind if I try to release some things from you on this?  I have a saying . . . I would love to put this out on a sign in front of the church, just to stir people up . . . I would say "It's impossible to live for Jesus."  Because for one, it's true, and two, it would come as a shock to most people because we've been conditioned to believe our relationship with God is based on our performance "for" God. 

God is not mad at you for being a human.  You did not "choose" to have this nature in you, you were born with it . .right?  You did nothing on your part to become human, it was what began thousands of years ago.  Well, if you didn't "do" anything to become a sinner . . .then why the frustration of "doing" things to be a Christian?  Scripture states in Phillippians that God is working in you, both to will and to do . . .not the law, but "his good pleasure".

God not only gives me the desire to pursue him, but he gives me the strength as well.  And if it's wearing me out to try to live up to what I believe to be his standards . .perhaps, the standards are not his, but they are standards conjured up by the mind of man.  Paul speaks of this same frustration and his conclusion was . . .to rejoice in the trials because they are not here to bring us down, but to build us up.  Rejoice in the fact that you are incapable to work toward purity.  It's this weakened state that illuminates the fact that . . .God's grace is enough.  God doesn't require perfection from us . . .because his perfection is already "in" us. 

It's the perceptions of man that infect us with guilt and shame because we don't do certain things, we can't seem to shake certain personality traits, addictions . .what have you.  Paul said you can do anything you want . .but not all things are beneficial to you.  You didn't do anything to gain this wonderful gift of salvation, it was all God.  And as such, there is nothing you need to "do" to keep it, or even grow it . . .it's all God growing through you.

Why do we have trials?  Because they make us stronger.  It's the way we were put together.  You go to an exercise machine to build up your muscles.  It's not a pleasant experience, it's a lot of work, but it makes your body so much more healthier.  Romans 1:20 . .God uses natural means to reveal spiritual truths . . . just as I must experience the burning of tiring muscles from working out in order to maintain health, God allows trials and tribulations to come my way to build up my ammune system against becoming spiritually sick.  John quotes Jesus saying "In this world you will have tribulation . . .BUT . . . be of good cheer, I have overcome the world!!


I'm out of time . .but do you know how a pearl is made?  Take a look at Revelation with that in mind and read about the GATES of pearl . . .we are the gates that lead others into the kingdom of heavenly things . . .but it doesn't come easily.

[sparrow]

Why are you struggling so much when you know that God loves you unconditionally? Just because we know something of the love of God, does not mean that we are instantly transformed into perfect human beings, you know that as well as I do. Why sit and stew in your failings? Get up, dust yourself off and keep going. You create a neverending trap for yourself. For example, It's just like smoking cigarettes. You smoke a cigarette to feel "normal", but in reality that cigarette you are smoking right now is creating the feeling inside of you in about 15 minutes that will make you feel "not normal", so then you smoke another cigarette in 15 minutes to quench that "not normal" feeling that the first cigarette caused. It's neverending. Non-smokers feel that "normal" feeling all the time. You create the need to smoke by smoking. Once you quit smoking and get past those first set of cravings, you're really fine. Your mind may still want a cigarette...but you have to just push through it until you're like everyone else again and feel "normal" all the time.

It's the same thing. You are constantly worried about your failings, so when you end up failing at something (which you will keep failing at stuff all of your life, that's just the way it is, we're human beings.) when you end up failing at something, you get to sit and lament and struggle about the fact that you failed and that you're not good enough, blah blah blah.... Then you do ok for awhile, but then that feeling rises up in you again, and you fail. Then you sit and lament and struggle about why you failed and you're no good, blah blah blah.
It's a neverending cycle that people get stuck in. You are subconsciously trying to make yourself feel better about failing by punishing yourself with these thoughts of being a failure. You have to STOP the cycle.

You ARE FREE. Sin has no power over you. Love others. Focus on loving others as much as humanly possibly while you are here on this earth. When you do something that you feel is a failing, pick yourself up QUICKLY, dust yourself off and realize that it was a learning opportunity and keep on GOING. I have to pick myself up and learn and push forward all day. Do I sometimes slip into a "ugh! I suck!" mode? Yeah, but not for long. Because it is not profitting my soul.

We are here to LEARN...We are NOT here to be perfect. Remember that.
Have peace in your heart, LOVE OTHERS as much as humanly possible (this will help you with your own weaknesses) and just KEEP GOING, don't look back. TODAY is all that we have. Yesterday is GONE and tomorrow is uncertain.

Keep a journal. Think about the fact that each MOMENT is precious and what you do with that moment is up to you.... At night, write down things you were grateful for that day. I do it, and it helps me to keep a positive attitude.

There is nothing wrong with not liking the actions of others. I know you mentioned something about not liking bush? I don't like the McCain/Palin ticket because I don't like their views. There is nothing wrong with that. Do I get frustrated and spout off about them, and how I can't stand Palin... YES! I do and I'm not proud of the fact, because I should be talking purely about their actions and not the person him/herself... but my humanness pushes through and gets all riled up. I spout off at the mouth and then of course, I end up feeling bad because dang... it's not personal and I'm making it personal. But then I try to learn that hey, I need to stick to their views and policies next time. You just keep learning and growing. You don't grow if you never fail. Failing (at whatever you are working on at the moment) just makes you stronger if you use it as a stepping stone for growth instead of a stumbling block.

Peace, I know I rambled, but I hope at least something up there helped you in some way.

[rosered]

 
Thanks Nate , that was pretty encouraging ,  but I do feel that the Holy Spirit  lets us know when we are ''in the wrong ''    
thats  more of what I am experiencing  , than mans conditioning /precepts  .  I have let all that baggage goes ...  

 you said here ..............

Code Select Expand

Why do we have trials?  Because they make us stronger.  It's the way we were put together.  You go to an exercise machine to build up your muscles.  It's not a pleasant experience, it's a lot of work, but it makes your body so much more healthier.  Romans 1:20 . .God uses natural means to reveal spiritual truths . . . just as I must experience the burning of tiring muscles from working out in order to maintain health, God allows trials and tribulations to come my way to build up my ammune system against becoming spiritually sick.  John quotes Jesus saying "In this world you will have tribulation . . .BUT . . . be of good cheer, I have overcome the world!!


 thats Is  good bro , I know Paul  says  somewhere when he is weak , than he is strong , maybe the  flesh/verses spirit    inner man outer man  
thing   is what he meant  ,I sure hope so ......

 God bless you     and thanks  rose

[sparrow]

P.S. when I said loving others as much as humanly possible will help you with your own weaknesses, it's because when you are softer on others, you end up being softer with yourself. When you see a murderer on death row, and look past the hardened exterior and see the frightened lonely child inside who only wants to be loved... you no longer see a monster, but a fellow human being who God loves. When you can see past things in others, you start to be able to have more compassion with yourself as well.

peace.

[sparrow]

Thanks Nate , that was pretty encouraging ,  but I do feel that the Holy Spirit  lets us know when we are "in the wrong "      thats  more of what I am experiencing  , than mans conditioning /precepts  .  I have let all that baggage goes ...  

And you will keep experiencing it every single day for the rest of your life!
That is what life is about, rosered....
Those feelings are there to help you learn more and more and more about LOVE.
Don't look at them and shrink back, look at those feelings and feel STRENGTH that you are growing.

peace.

[rosered]

Why are you struggling so much when you know that God loves you unconditionally? Just because we know something of the love of God, does not mean that we are instantly transformed into perfect human beings, you know that as well as I do. Why sit and stew in your failings? Get up, dust yourself off and keep going. You create a neverending trap for yourself. For example, It's just like smoking cigarettes. You smoke a cigarette to feel "normal", but in reality that cigarette you are smoking right now is creating the feeling inside of you in about 15 minutes that will make you feel "not normal", so then you smoke another cigarette in 15 minutes to quench that "not normal" feeling that the first cigarette caused. It's neverending. Non-smokers feel that "normal" feeling all the time. You create the need to smoke by smoking. Once you quit smoking and get past those first set of cravings, you're really fine. Your mind may still want a cigarette...but you have to just push through it until you're like everyone else again and feel "normal" all the time.

It's the same thing. You are constantly worried about your failings, so when you end up failing at something (which you will keep failing at stuff all of your life, that's just the way it is, we're human beings.) when you end up failing at something, you get to sit and lament and struggle about the fact that you failed and that you're not good enough, blah blah blah.... Then you do ok for awhile, but then that feeling rises up in you again, and you fail. Then you sit and lament and struggle about why you failed and you're no good, blah blah blah.
It's a neverending cycle that people get stuck in. You are subconsciously trying to make yourself feel better about failing by punishing yourself with these thoughts of being a failure. You have to STOP the cycle.

You ARE FREE. Sin has no power over you. Love others. Focus on loving others as much as humanly possibly while you are here on this earth. When you do something that you feel is a failing, pick yourself up QUICKLY, dust yourself off and realize that it was a learning opportunity and keep on GOING. I have to pick myself up and learn and push forward all day. Do I sometimes slip into a "ugh! I suck!" mode? Yeah, but not for long. Because it is not profitting my soul.

We are here to LEARN...We are NOT here to be perfect. Remember that.
Have peace in your heart, LOVE OTHERS as much as humanly possible (this will help you with your own weaknesses) and just KEEP GOING, don't look back. TODAY is all that we have. Yesterday is GONE and tomorrow is uncertain.

Keep a journal. Think about the fact that each MOMENT is precious and what you do with that moment is up to you.... At night, write down things you were grateful for that day. I do it, and it helps me to keep a positive attitude.

There is nothing wrong with not liking the actions of others. I know you mentioned something about not liking bush? I don't like the McCain/Palin ticket because I don't like their views. There is nothing wrong with that. Do I get frustrated and spout off about them, and how I can't stand Palin... YES! I do and I'm not proud of the fact, because I should be talking purely about their actions and not the person him/herself... but my humanness pushes through and gets all riled up. I spout off at the mouth and then of course, I end up feeling bad because dang... it's not personal and I'm making it personal. But then I try to learn that hey, I need to stick to their views and policies next time. You just keep learning and growing. You don't grow if you never fail. Failing (at whatever you are working on at the moment) just makes you stronger if you use it as a stepping stone for growth instead of a stumbling block.

Peace, I know I rambled, but I hope at least something up there helped you in some way.

  Thanks Sparrow , it does help ....... alot  !!!
    I think your right I am stumbling  over  Jesus  maybe? 

  God love ya  rose

[Paul Hazelwood]

Rosered,

What kind of religious background do you and your husband have?  This is not a loaded question, it is to know maybe what influences could be affecting how you are both dealing with this issue.

It may help me to give any additonal responces that may help.

If you would rather not answer that, it is ok.

[rosered]

Thanks Nate , that was pretty encouraging ,  but I do feel that the Holy Spirit  lets us know when we are "in the wrong "      thats  more of what I am experiencing  , than mans conditioning /precepts  .  I have let all that baggage goes ...  

And you will keep experiencing it every single day for the rest of your life!
That is what life is about, rosered....
Those feelings are there to help you learn more and more and more about LOVE.
Don't look at them and shrink back, look at those feelings and feel STRENGTH that you are growing.

peace.

wow ! yeah dont give up , thats what it feels like though , I  just want to stop it all !    get off the  roller coaster , I am  dizzy  /head spinning    with it .

  trying to keep my  heart open  and my conscience clean  ,
  it did come easy for a long while , but now  I am  in that  stale/stagnant  place   and   it is making me  miserable  ;(

 
  God bless you

[rosered]

Rosered,

What kind of religious background do you and your husband have?  This is not a loaded question, it is to know maybe what influences could be affecting how you are both dealing with this issue.

It may help me to give any additonal responces that may help.

If you would rather not answer that, it is ok.

No, its ok  Paul , I   believe  everything  hidden should be revealed   ,     
we dont go to church  and I have  been into UR  for about 5 years now , My first exposure was KT  Before Bill Gorton  died suddenly and enexpetedly
  lots of awesome  folks  alot like here bro 

  and my hubby was raised in the hell fire and brimstone  environment 

  made to feel guilty  , you see my husband is one of the most precious souls I have ever met ,  he does the good  ,  that I only talk about !
  but his shortcomings  are getting to him and it makes me examine my own   
thats a  catch 22 if you know what I mean ,but   I know I love him !!
and when he suffers so do I ..
   I read Mark 4  awhile ago like  Martin said , and I always felt like the seed fell  on stony ground , I had joy , but when the trials come i was scorched   not enough  ''root''  Love in other words
    I have  a test now thats  driving me crazy , and cannot wait / be patient  enough till its over ,  this is what I am talking about , seeing my faith tested in  KNOWING IT IS GOD  ,who  helps us , but I get tooo anxious  over them  tests
     over and over  again , thats why I am  soooo  tired of it right now I think .   :sigh:

  peace  rose   

[Nathan]

Hebrews 4 . .we need to come to this place of Rest and find our identity there.  It's not that the trials will cease, but it's that no matter what kind of storm you face, there is a knowing that God is never disappointed in us.

In reading and feeling your heart Rose, it reminds me of one of the characteristics that an eagle must experience.  An interesting phenomena happens when an eagle matures to the age of molting.  The feathers of an eagle, like most other birds, does a number of things.  Most importantly, it equips the bird to fly.  Without feathers, an eagle is just another earth-dwelling animal.  Secondly, feathers are protection.  Jesus used the parable of a hen gathering her chicks beneath her wings when referring to Jerusalem and his desire to bring her under his protective covering.

And thirdly, feathers are also a visual display of splendor.  They give the bird it's character and even play a role in interactive positioning with other birds.  You never see a mangy duck at the head of the "V" that flies over you.

Spiritually, we have those same characteristics.  We are eagles.  Jesus refers to this in Matthew 24 . .where the eagles gather together . . . God has brought us to a place of maturity where we can fly in the spirit of Truth, we can soar above all the noise of the earth below.  We don't need to flap our wings and put up a great effort that "resembles" flying.  We simply open our spirit wings and let the wind of Truth lift us up into the upper room of the Spirit.  It is in the spirit where our dominion is, and also it's where our protection is.  If my spirit is secured in Christ, then nothing in my physical realm can penetrait my heart.  And . . . there is a glory that comes with these wings.  It is not one that we brag on or intimidate others with . . .there is much to be said in Scriptures about our outward apparel . .always dressed in "white". 

But when you come to a low place in your life, it's a sign of molting.  The feathers come off, the ability to fly in the spirit becomes nearly impossible.  And if it were left up to you, you would die of starvation in this place because you don't have the energy, or the ability to feed yourself.  And this is where the most awesome display of God's wonder manifests.  When an eagle goes into this stage of molting, they find a secluded place where they are either going to die, or come out stronger than ever. 

As they become earthbound . . . other eagles begin showing up . . .they come with their talons full of fresh meat for the one who is molting.  They circle above on the look out for a predator looking to take advantage of your weakened state.  And they scream at you with words of encouragement, promise, and just to let you know, they got your back.

Well . . . I just want you to know . .we're watching your back.  You're feathers of faith will return to you, stronger and more beautiful than ever before.  Your new wings will take you to your old familiar places in God once again, and they will carry you to even more places than your mind can comprehend.  But this is your time to rest, regain your strength, let the other eagles bring you the fresh meat and build you back up to become even stronger in the things of the kingdom that God has already ordained for you.

Blessings my sister.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Thanks Rosered,


I'm going to just give you my perspective of what can happen to us when being raised in that fire and brimstone / guilt environment.


In that environment there is constant attention paid to every little thing we do.  And if you do not conform to a certain way of behavior then you are evil and you are defying God.   Depending upon the church it can be as simple as wearing shorts or posessing a deck of playing cards.

So as you grow up in that environment you begin to doubt your every move, because what if you do something you think is harmless and God sits there holding it against you?


The next thing this does as it builds and grows in your mentality is that you begin to believe that your circumstances, emotions, and worth is directly proportional to how well you please God.   If you forgot to read your bible as you woke up late and rush around to get to school or work and something bad happened that day, you relate that to a displeased God.   This kind of emotional processing can run deep especially for people who was raised from a young age in this.


Now, the next thing that this environment causes is the misperception of our accountability and restoration.

Even if a person get to a point where they do not fear the fire and brimstone, they then still process this teaching of pleasing God.   

So lets say, you screw up and create some circumstances for yourself.  You immediatly begin to worship God, talk right, think about what you do, read the bible, pray and pray and do a whole slew of things that you have been taught will please God.  you do all this and still your are neck deep in crap,  you will begin to believe you still have not done enough,  you know God can forgive you but you have been falsely conditioned to think that if you just please God enough you will move him to take away the circumstances as well.

So as your neck deep is all this your believing that it is possible to just figure out the correct thing to do to make God remove it.

In truth, all that has been a lie in your life all along.   God gives us an experience to humble us.    I told that verse to a friend and He outright denied it while it was staring him in the face.

I was not even being judgmental,  it was because it exposed something he had believed in all his life to be a lie.   


Not sure if that is helpful,  but often times when we ask WHY GOD WHY it is because we are holding on to the lie we have been taught because it sounds so good and we think, if I can just please God enough, I will get what I want.


In reality, God has been pleased with us all along and he is teaching us that what we want is not the best for us and yes, indeed, that is "suffering" and the bible says  even Jesus learned righteousness through suffering.

[sparrow]

RoseRed, here is a little something that I found awhile back and have saved on my computer and pull up from time to time when the world (and myself) starts to get to me. It just makes me pause and take a deep breath and get my priorities aligned properly. It kind of gives me a little sense of peace and opens my eyes again to what is really important:


1.Learn from my mistakes as well as those of others, and then let them go.

2. Only my own thoughts hurt me and only my own forgiveness sets me free.

3. The purpose of my relationships is to join, not separate.

4. Ask myself the question daily: Am I here to love or am I here to judge?

5. Remind myself that I am a spiritual being.

6. See no value in punishing myself with my thoughts.

7. Be willing to see the light and not the lampshade in others. See them as they will be, not as they are.

8. Be willing to see no shadow in anyone's past, including my own.

9. Remember that forgiveness is the greatest healer of all.

10.See no value in hurting others or myself with either my words or thoughts.

11.I may not be able to control the outside world, but I can control the thoughts in my own mind.

14.Choose to see others as either loving, or as fearful and giving a call for help.

15.Be willing to ask each other for help, rather than attacking each other.

16.The best way to prevent burnout is to let go of all of my judgments.

17.Resist the temptation to gossip and spread rumors.

18.Be willing to be vulnerable.

[sparrow]

#7 ESPECIALLY is what I hope you pay attention to.  :HeartThrob:
See others (AND YOURSELF! :HeartThrob:) as what you WILL be.. :icon_flower:

:happy3: :happy3:

:Sparkletooth:

:winkgrin:

Seriously. That thought helps me more than anything else in the world.
I know I said the future is uncertain and not to worry about it...lol. But this is one part of the future that we can depend on and find joy. See the world and everyone in it as what it will be like in the future when all of creation is basking in God's love. This world is fleeting... a mere second in eternity.

[sparrow]

hey... I just realized I left off a few!  :laughing7:


19.Let go of any need to control others.

20.Others don't have to change in order for me to be happy.

21.Trust that positive change ultimately will bring positive results.

22.Accept responsibility for my own peace of mind

23.Choose peace of mind as my own goal each and every day.

24.Forgiving others and myself totally and with no exceptions,
is the key to inner peace, happiness, hope and freedom.

[Nathan]

Sparrow . . .THAT IS SO COOL!!!  Thanks for sharing it out. :icon_flower:

[rhellis]

My answer, and I believe it is a biblical one, goes like this:

This life is merely the schoolroom of our greater existence.

The twelve years we spend in school, struggling, getting disciplined, experiencing boredom, etc.-- shapes us into adults capable of experiencing a reasonably good life. There are people in this world who cannot do the most basic math. Most of us are capable of keeping checkbooks, calculating and challenging our bills, measuring for new curtains, etc. There are people in this world who cannot read. Most of us are fluent readers, capable of enjoying literature, keeping up with news, following the order of service at a wedding ceremony, etc. Would we have ourselves any other way? No. The suffering of school was well worth it, taking us to a higher level than we ever would have attained otherwise.

The question then is-- could it have been done any other way? Why couldn't we have been born with all the knowledge we needed?

The answer is this: If we had been, we would not be ourselves, exactly ourselves, perfectly ourselves-- who we have been, who we are, and who we are becoming.

That brings us to something that for me it is the hinge of it all: Would I really want to be someone or something else? Somewhere, in a part of me that is deeper than any words I can find to express that part of me, I prefer, enjoy, and expect this life of suffering I am leading (I'm physically sick even as I sit here writing this). So be it. It's all good. For this reason we are born into this world, this womb of our higher existence.

And yes, we suffer for the next level, but even in the midst of this present suffering, there is joy here and now-- from that place that cannot be expressed with words (joy unspeakable). 

[rosered]

  Wow ! Thanks all ,
  Nate that is so cool about the eagles i did not know that !  good analogy bro , and very heartfelt  thanks so much ,

    and Paul your so right God does humble us  , to let us know we do need Him always , and  its better the GOD wills it  that  we  suffer  for doing good  more so  than  doing evil as Peter put it some where  ?
  1st Peter  3 :17 looked it up

  Oh Sparrow  that was a keeper..  Thanks a million  :) !!!

  I can forgive  others real easy Praise God !!    my struggle is  forgiving  myself  perhaps ? I never concidered that before lol ..  my exams are harsh ?

   you all have been so encouraging  I do feel alot better  than this moring , a Dear Sister   Red , called me today and was as chipper as
  I ever saw and lifted my spirit  greatly ,
 
  rhellis  your right  there is  joy in the morning after a long dark night of waiting !  and God gives gifts to whom he will .... being oh so  grateful right now ...  :thumbsup:
Thanks  to you all  for helping  me up 
God love you all ...rose

[Sarah]

Rhellis,

I enjoyed your analogy of the struggles of learning in school to the value of it later in life. I teach 1st and 2nd grade and I see that learning to read isn't easy for many, but somehow most learn by the end of first, and a few mature into it during 2nd. The funny thing is that there is such effort and mental alertness and patience and love required to teach these basic skills and the fact is that in the future I will be but a blur in their memory and they will not remember not knowing how to read.  And what a skill that affects the rest of your life!! Perhaps if a first grader came to me and said, why couldn't I just know how to read and not go through this, then I would understand it slightly from God's perspective.

The truth is I could break out into a dissertation on how Reading is composed of 5 strands; Phonemic Awareness, Vocabulary, Phonics, Comprehension, and fluency. They are intricitly entwined strands where each skill depends on and feeds the other. They could not possibly be born with this ability because then mothers would have to give birth to babies with full brains, full of understanding of all vocabulary, speech sounds, and comprehension. I don't know if such a baby could make it out of the birth canal. But then the baby would have to be fully grown and requiring grown up food because in order to have the vocabulary to have the comprehension of 'the taste of honey toast', the baby would have had to have tasted honey toast.  So this is impossible unless of corse we did away with babies. And I'm just not willing to do that because I love babies!!