I am no longer a Christain

[jbertonbounds]

Mark this, there is but ONE way that man will be saved, and that WAY is by and through Jesus Christ.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Amen! :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

Mark this, there is but ONE way that man will be saved, and that WAY is by and through Jesus Christ.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Yep!  It's Marked.  And Matthewed, Luked, Johned, and Pauled.   :dsunny:

[lastpost]

"I Am The Way, The Truth, And The Life..."

"eimi hodos" ⇔ "I am the way"

"hodos" ⇔ "the way"

"hodos" ⇔
1. properly
  (a) a way, a travelled way, road
  (b) a travellers way, journey, travelling

2. metaph.
(a) a course of conduct
(b) a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding

I believe that the Word has spoken - He has shown the Way but it's too simple for man - man must create his dogmas to obscure the Way for it calls out effort and sacrifice. He said to His disciples: "And whither I go ye know, and the Way ye know (perceive)"...because they had been with Him, watched Him, listened to Him, loved Him.

Personally, I follow the teachings of the Word made flesh rather than the words and opinions of men who sometimes disagree as to truth however inspired or not they may be, or the words of men literalising spiritual visions and parables and calling it truth - although I will listen but not necessarily accept such words as true to Divine Truth, they simply are not and will never be the same as Divine Truth Himself, in my opinion.

Christ Jesus showed the Way by being the Example for man to follow during His earthly sojourn. He also gave man perfect teachings: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death"

"emos logos" ⇔ "my saying"

"logos" ⇔ "saying"

* a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
* what someone has said
* a word
* the sayings of God
* decree, mandate or order
* of the moral precepts given by God
* what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism
* discourse
* the act of speaking, speech
* the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
* a kind or style of speaking
* a continuous speaking discourse - instruction
* doctrine, teaching
* anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
* matter under discussion, thing spoken of, matter in dispute
* the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

"And whosoever liveth (zao -  breathes, is active in, is living and acting in character, is full of vigour) and believeth (pisteuo - places confidence in, trusts) in me shall never (ou me - by no means in any manner) die. Believest thou this?"

I believe Thee.

I hope that I ask in humility that my Lord and Master Christ continually guides me to abide by His sayings and through His unlimited grace I believe that I shall never see death at the end of this short life that I may serve Him all through the Aeon of aeons - no long sleeping, no waiting until a day of so-called resurrection from a dusty grave, no living in a putrefying earthly body for eternity, no semi-dazy existence, no unnatural cessation of consciousness. No death ever, never - You have promised.

How wonderful and demonstgrative of Love as well as Divinely fair to all that His laws govern all beings in the same manner. Thank you for revealing Yourself Lord. I know He lives in me, He fills me with a form of life that is beyond description - and I strive to reciprocate to live in Him and as shallow in comparison as I am He never leaves, He is with you always. Death? Shall man's words alter Christ who never changes?

And through both His Way and also through His omnipresent Spirit which emanates from the Godhead, the Father is open to all - and all shall know the Christ in something of His Love and out of reverence, gratitude and adoration all shall truly bend the knee in spirit to Him.

[misszoolander]

Ed said, "So you think it makes sense that God requires blood in order to forgive?"

No, I said that it was the way that God has chosen to deal with our sin.
God is Love, Love is sacrifice.
When you love someone, you make sacrifices for them. The ultimate sacrifice or "proof" of love
is a person giving up their life for someone else. How could we understand the truth about Love
and God without the example of pure love/pure sacrifice done for us? Ed also said that God transcends religion
which of course is true since God transcends everything but His infinite self. I was trying to put into perspective
that you said that You also (like God)had transcended religion. It must be nice. :Peace2:

Ded2, this is so beautiful!  I am copying this and saving it.  Thanks. :thumbsup:

I shall save this too, it brought tears to my eyes.  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

Thank you for all of the loving replies.

I am always impressed with the logic and tact that Christian Universalists bring to the table.

If I was a Christian, I would definitely be a univisalist.

:thumbsup:

[mplsfitter539]

Thank you for all of the loving replies.

I am always impressed with the logic and tact that Christian Universalists bring to the table.

If I was a Christian, I would definitely be a univisalist.

:thumbsup:

ed you don't have to be a "Christian" to inherit eternal life. If I had to fit into the mold that makes up 95% of Christendom I would have to believe all of the garbage that they believe and that ain't happening. I would rather not be associated with the title of "Christian" because of all of the negative press they get for being hypocrites and blind fools who follow bad doctrines. Just say no to labels! 

[lastpost]

Thank you for all of the loving replies.

I am always impressed with the logic and tact that Christian Universalists bring to the table.

If I was a Christian, I would definitely be a univisalist.

Dear Ed,

I believe that you are correct in your thinking as you have laid it out here. Personally, if I may burden you with my own perspective, finding God through Christ is the reason that I love God. I simply cannot separate Almighty God and Christ although I can write words to make a distinction - but God is so powerful that they are One to my little heart and mind.

And so I learn of Christ and see God revealed. I have been elsewhere and seen others have their God revealed to them and that is fine with me, I make my feelings of my understanding of God known to them should it be approriate, but I have found the God revealed to me through Christ is real to me, all-powerful, all-wise, all-tender, all-protective yes, but I have Him in a Form that I can relate to, the visible Gateway (Christ Jesus) to the unseen God. He has come down and displayed Himself for me to see Him and what He is really like. He instructs me - His Spirit and His Love instructs me - as to how to interpret what I read and hear and it often varys from others. Others may disagree with me but I'm so overcome with what He has given me so why should I care?

Why do I write this? I'm not sure but I think a reason is that I get to focus on Him while relating my understanding of Him. From my experience (not words) God is so Wonderful and truly Beautiful, so unthinkable and so Divine, and to think of Him is a great way to spend a couple of hours. But yet God is inexplicable!

Tony.

[eaglesway]

I was sitting in a basement in the ghetto in Detroit Mich in 1974 . I had been searching for God, like some crazed treasure hunter, for 3 years. I had studied metaphysics, eastern mysticism and the hippie love halucinagenic music craze- but always I was looking for the deeper meaning- to which I awas never exposed as the child of totally materialistic parents.

I was about to be inducted into a coven in the heart of the outer darkness that was the inner city in Detroit in those days when suddenly it was like a bubble burst in my soul. The knowledge that Jesus had died on a cross for me, and was calling me to come follow Him sprang up like a well through every part, every cell of my being and I wept.

I wept because I saw my life and everything I loved go under that cross and I mourned the loss of it. I wept because I could not follow becuase there were things I loved too much to let go. I left that place knowing the truth without any doubt but I ran from God just the same.

I bought a bible tho and began to read. Over the next year I would read things like, "If your right hand causes you to offend cut it off for it is better to enter the kingdom of heven maimed than to enter whole into unquencable fire" and it was like a flaming arrow pierced my heart.

Finally one night I got on my knees and prayed, "Lord, I will stick my hand out if you will cut it off".

I wont bore anyone with the details but the next day my world changed and thereafter I was on the trail of the core streams of the reality of God in Christ. Again, Like a crzy treasure hunter I went from church to church looking for something that aproximated what I had read in the Book and I was tested and disappointed for years.  I saw the glory of God continually dissapate before the relentless ambitions and presumptions of men (myself included)and despaired ever seeing what I was looking for.

For me, that first moment of revelation never left me.

"For He is the radiance of the Father's glory and the express image of theFathers nature"

I always knew that the foibles of men(including myself) culd not be laid at the feet of Jesus, who never did a soul wrong, but rather healed and delivered and became the sacrifice Lamb.

I understand losing faith in Christ, when the understanding has been defiled by the ways of men and the hopeleesness and futility of religion rises up and obscures the vision of who He really is and was.

The embodiment of love. The only begotten by a virgin daughter of Abraham, the friend of God- our Father the spirit our mother the earth. Jesus the only true avatar of God- the one actual INCARNATION thorough whom, as a seed- all things were created(Alpha)- through whom, as the Tree of Life(omega) all things will be gathered into one and through whom the living water will pour into the whole creation until every being in heaven, on earth, under the earth and in the sea will rejoice in the lgiht and color of absolutely universal joy and fulfillment in the new creation- a life as yet beyond mortal comprehension.

Ultimate universal reconciliation is the key to the door. The rosetta stone to all the diverse doctrines and the resolution of every paradox. It is THE ONLY WAY Jesus can be seen CLEARY for who He is and He is the "radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation of His nature".

He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. To know Him is to reach out and touch God. All theother shadows of God and all the pretend  versions of "Christianity" are deficient for a multitude of reasons but the failure to understand why God has done the things He has done and the glory of His plan and the beauty of the Lamb's Joy for which endured such pain and rejection and insult by a world for which He was willing to lay down His life- The reconciliation of all, the salvation of all, and the restoration of all to something BEYOND what was lost in the beginning- ALL BY DESIGN. That is something I can never forget. It shines like the brightest star in the foggy mist of my feeble mind :o)

[jbertonbounds]

I was sitting in a basement in the ghetto in Detroit Mich in 1974 . I had been searching for God, like some crazed treasure hunter, for 3 years. I had studied metaphysics, eastern mysticism and the hippie love halucinagenic music craze- but always I was looking for the deeper meaning- to which I awas never exposed as the child of totally materialistic parents.

I was about to be inducted into a coven in the heart of the outer darkness that was the inner city in Detroit in those days when suddenly it was like a bubble burst in my soul. The knowledge that Jesus had died on a cross for me, and was calling me to come follow Him sprang up like a well through every part, every cell of my being and I wept.

I wept because I saw my life and everything I loved go under that cross and I mourned the loss of it. I wept because I could not follow becuase there were things I loved too much to let go. I left that place knowing the truth without any doubt but I ran from God just the same.

I bought a bible tho and began to read. Over the next year I would read things like, "If your right hand causes you to offend cut it off for it is better to enter the kingdom of heven maimed than to enter whole into unquencable fire" and it was like a flaming arrow pierced my heart.

Finally one night I got on my knees and prayed, "Lord, I will stick my hand out if you will cut it off".

I wont bore anyone with the details but the next day my world changed and thereafter I was on the trail of the core streams of the reality of God in Christ. Again, Like a crzy treasure hunter I went from church to church looking for something that aproximated what I had read in the Book and I was tested and disappointed for years.  I saw the glory of God continually dissapate before the relentless ambitions and presumptions of men (myself included)and despaired ever seeing what I was looking for.

For me, that first moment of revelation never left me.

"For He is the radiance of the Father's glory and the express image of theFathers nature"

I always knew that the foibles of men(including myself) culd not be laid at the feet of Jesus, who never did a soul wrong, but rather healed and delivered and became the sacrifice Lamb.

I understand losing faith in Christ, when the understanding has been defiled by the ways of men and the hopeleesness and futility of religion rises up and obscures the vision of who He really is and was.

The embodiment of love. The only begotten by a virgin daughter of Abraham, the friend of God- our Father the spirit our mother the earth. Jesus the only true avatar of God- the one actual INCARNATION thorough whom, as a seed- all things were created(Alpha)- through whom, as the Tree of Life(omega) all things will be gathered into one and through whom the living water will pour into the whole creation until every being in heaven, on earth, under the earth and in the sea will rejoice in the lgiht and color of absolutely universal joy and fulfillment in the new creation- a life as yet beyond mortal comprehension.

Ultimate universal reconciliation is the key to the door. The rosetta stone to all the diverse doctrines and the resolution of every paradox. It is THE ONLY WAY Jesus can be seen CLEARY for who He is and He is the "radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation of His nature".

He said if you have seen me you have seen the Father. To know Him is to reach out and touch God. All theother shadows of God and all the pretend  versions of "Christianity" are deficient for a multitude of reasons but the failure to understand why God has done the things He has done and the glory of His plan and the beauty of the Lamb's Joy for which endured such pain and rejection and insult by a world for which He was willing to lay down His life- The reconciliation of all, the salvation of all, and the restoration of all to something BEYOND what was lost in the beginning- ALL BY DESIGN. That is something I can never forget. It shines like the brightest star in the foggy mist of my feeble mind :o)

What an awesome, beautiful testimony!
Thanks for sharing this, Eagle! :thumbsup:

[Eduard]

Bumping this so everyone can see eagle's post in case they missed it.


By the way, ed can be Ed the greater/older and I can be Ed the lesser/younger. Why only apostles should have these names? :icon_jokercolor:

[sheila]

   Thank you,very timely!

[sheila]

I AM A CHRISTIAN.............

     If you say...I am a jew,no-one will be moved...

     if you say,I am  Romn,no-one will be moved

     if you sy,I am a Greek,a barbarian,a slave a free mn,no-one will be troubled.

    IF you say,'I am  Christian,the world will tremble"

    Would that I may receive a name like that![no name higher]

  This is the person whom the powers will not be able to endure,when they hear His Name"

       Gospel of Phillip v 36

[Eduard]

I don't know if Phillip really wrote those words, but they ring true to me  :banana:

[marie glen]

The cross is dramatic enough to pierce every psyche.. God may transcend religion, it seems obvious that man(kind) is imperfect, and needs to be made whole. To my way fo thinking God is Life and Perfection, but endowed thinking ability, thus the ability to make choices, yet to make any teeny tiny choice other than God would, is to become the imPerfect, the opposite of life.. therefor a rescue needed.

Ppl's understanding of the Bible is flawed, much ado is made, for instance on the judgments/consequences/results which occurred in the Old Testament, but they don't realize how brutal and barbaric mankiind had become, to the point human, child and babe sacrifice was practiced! Yet even to these, God confirms, only one sacrifice is/was needed (to redeem all man and angel kind, and all creation).

blessings! :cloud9:

[marie glen]

So you think it makes sense that God requires blood in order to forgive?

Imo, it's not God who "requires" the sacrifice, but mankind's psyche does.. and the accusations of the opposer(s), who too are a part of "the plan" to educate us aLL.. plus Ded2daworld's summary about "love", and many other very good posts in this thread :smile:

I feel that I 'found' God through eastern religion/meditation, but it was a big struggle.. one again, off again.. if I was in the mountains.. God was there.. back to daily life, not so much.

Then someone gave me a New Testament :banana: :dsunny: then I heard the world's scoffing at the God of the Bible, but learned every claim lacked basis in fact.

What liberty when I realized it was "done" - no more struggling or even striving, but a resting.. a resting in the finished work.. and now I feel I have one rule/law, to love God. Period. For if I love God I will draw near in faith, and in the drawing near, be filled with Him, who is love and "love works no ill".. so by loving God/Yahweh, I will also love my fellow person.

to "not need the Bible" anymore, to me, is a very sad thing.. Oh how I love His Word, the words, and the whole narrative - of aLL learning good from evil.. something which must be understood for paradise to be instituted..

[marie glen]

I understand. 

And I don't subscribe to that modern "outgrown" stuff either.  I believe, yet without scripture to back it up, that those who never heard will not be dealt with harshly if they lived clean self-less lives - and I'm sure some of them do.  Surely they (the "good" ones who never heard) will be purified in the most humane way of all at the judgement.  However, I don't see how they would ever be able to be a part of the millennial kingdom either, since they never knew of Jesus.  This remains a big question in my mind - kinda seems unfair. :dontknow:

It's my belief that no one, yep, no one, tho I like to say almost no one, to be in agreement with brethren about "age-during cleansing in the LOF", and of course there could be some few very stubborn hold outs...  I believe what's called Judgment Day, and is the White Throne Judgment, will follow the 2nd resurrection / the resurrection of all who never believed or never even heard..

They will rise still in their imperfection, and will wtness, as we all will, and will live through what (surely?) must be a very long lasting review and examination of all things.. all human history. Why would Yahweh not use such an excellent opportunity to really hammer home what surely is His intent to teach and prove to aLL?

I read somewhere in the scriptures the other day, having to do with "name written in the book of life" (I believe) has to do with, in the original language, "making an entry". This seems obvious of course, but it struck me! I wrote that down somewhere.. oh, here it is Strong's Greek #3049 logizomai, root word logos. And it had to do with the word "credited" in ROMANS 4:2-5 "faith credited as righteousness".

"Credited" - logizomai in the Bible version I was reading interpreted in the margin as meaning, to "make an entry". This of course brought to mind "names written in the book of life" and what does it require to have one's name written in the Book of Life? to believe (surely?), "faith" credited.

If we look at REV 20, which has to do with 'judgment day' - "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LOF" is the very last verse of the chapter. Even following "and death and hell the grave/place of the dead, were thrown into the LOF".

It does say in chapter 19 that the false prophet/teaching/imo,darwinianism, which turned christendom/western civilization on its ear, and the (big) beast of rev 13:1-10, imo,a world beast/body are "cast alive into the LOF" the paradox, or irony being they may be active when they are seized, but they are not living beings..

My main point is, who, after experiencing being resurrected, and living through, and witnessing a long and intense review of allll human history, etc., who's not going to "believe"??

It may seem unfair some will miss the 1st resurrection (but will catch up to it!) but in any drama (God's Great Truth Drama) there has to be different characters. You can't have a drama with only one character (the saved in this life). :smile: