Paul got the gentiles to believe in Jesus Christ and got them saved. How did he do that when they had basically no knowledge of the Jewish religion?
:dontknow:
They were only required to follow 7 laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah :dunno2:
Gentiles understood Forgiveness.
When you have had a missed expectation ,you understand forgiveness.
Forgiveness from a Father.
There is a natural beauty in forgiveness
Quote from: ed on February 10, 2014, 10:17:30 PM
Paul got the gentiles to believe in Jesus Christ and got them saved. How did he do that when they had basically no knowledge of the Jewish religion?
:dontknow:
He said he became all things to all people in order to win some to Christ. You don't have to start with a knowledge of Jewish tradition to receive the Holy Spirit unto salvation. Here's how Peter got Gentiles saved:
Acts 10
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness,
that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words,
the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter,
because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Paul always started with the local Jewish communities first. From there, using contacts, good deeds done and hospitality no doubt people were attracted. He normally did this before the big preaching sermons in the street. It is important to have some context with the people you are talking with as most people wouldn't even know who Christ was. Plus a miracle or 2. That was his normal MO.
:banana: :banana: :banana:
This maybe a extraordinary view but the only thought that comes to my mind is that the power(glory) of the Father, the Holy Spirit, was with Paul, leading and guiding him. Just what is a barbarian gentile? I am pretty sure they were human beings who had not heard or perhaps denied that a man like Jesus could have lived. Besides just how do we preach that ALL men will be saved? Are we preaching to barbarians? [I wonder] either way I believe and accept that the power(glory) of the Father..... Holy Spirit is the very key. But that is just how I yield to walk. :2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on February 11, 2014, 02:24:20 AM
This maybe a extraordinary view but the only thought that comes to my mind is that the power(glory) of the Father, the Holy Spirit, was with Paul, leading and guiding him. Just what is a barbarian gentile? I am pretty sure they were human beings who had not heard or perhaps denied that a man like Jesus could have lived. Besides just how do we preach that ALL men will be saved? Are we preaching to barbarians? [I wonder] either way I believe and accept that the power(glory) of the Father..... Holy Spirit is the very key. But that is just how I yield to walk. :2c:
I wonder too. I chatting with some Christians who are really into the keeping of the law. To them the breaking of the law is what sin is.
I was raised Christian and really don't know Jewish tradition and what the law is. I'm like a fish our of water when when talking to them. For me sin has always been falling short of love. I don't get the whole law thing. Then I think how ignorant I am, because the whole lamb of God thing, shed blood for remission of sins basically come from the Jewish religion. I think that I am spiritually a barbarian. Much of the church seems to be spiritually barbarian.
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So you are hung up on the law eh? Why? I know very little about Jewish tradition and I really don't find a need to or want to. I know that it did have an important part and that there may be some things that would help understanding, but then only, in my opinion, to keep religion, theology in an order for studying religious history.
Quote from: micah7:9 on February 11, 2014, 06:32:50 AM
So you are hung up on the law eh? Why?
That is what I am trying to figure out. LOL.
I never had an interest before.
I've been talking to some folks that keep bring it up.
Here is a video that explains a little if it.
http://119ministries.com/the-deuteronomy-thirteen-test
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I know very little about Jewish tradition and I really don't find a need to or want to. I know that it did have an important part and that there may be some things that would help understanding, but then only, in my opinion, to keep religion, theology in an order for studying religious history.
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Hey ed you want to attempt to put the law, Hebrew history, and christianity together you need to get a hold of WhiteWings. I appreciate what he posts about it, but go no further than that. PM the brother.
I've studied history, and know that lots of those "gentiles" were no barbarians. Besides, does not "gentile" mean the same thing as "nation," and there are therefore no individual "gentiles"? The term "barbarian" was used (IIRC) like our term "foreigner."
Quote from: ed on February 11, 2014, 06:52:30 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on February 11, 2014, 06:32:50 AM
So you are hung up on the law eh? Why?
That is what I am trying to figure out. LOL.
I never had an interest before.
I've been talking to some folks that keep bring it up.
Here is a video that explains a little if it.
http://119ministries.com/the-deuteronomy-thirteen-test
I had a chance to watch the video and went to their website to see a bit of their reasoning etc. They do seem open to change which I appreciated. I also appreciate that they talk about how Paul did not downtalk the Law of Moses. Paul only had good things to say about the Law of Moses, but he also understood it as a marriage covenant and that there is another, new marriage covenant that the new High Priest brought with him.
To me, I began to understand the Law more, when I began to see the difference between
letter and
Spirit, and how that walking according to the Spirit means that while you may not be under the Law of Moses, you will still not behave in such a way that contradicts the Law. It's not that you are a debtor to it, but that you naturally behave in accordance with it's core purpose: to walk in love to your neighbor.
Where I disagree: They claim that Jesus did not change the Law, but I disagree. Hebrews 7:12 clearly states that a change in the Law occurred giving Christ, a non-Levite, the right to be the new High Priest. They say that Jesus was obedient to the Law of Moses, but that's also a bit of a misnomer.
Jesus was righteous and had no sin, therefore, he was not a debtor to follow the Law, even though he may have followed ordinances to fit in. For example, we know that the sacrifices were for the remembrance of sin, right? Jesus had no sin. So why did he offer a sacrifice, if he did? It would only be to fit in with the society he was raised in, not because he was a debtor to follow a Law not meant for him. In fact, Jesus says that he was Lord of the Law.
Anyway, in short, my clarity began with understanding the difference between "letter" and "Spirit." Then, everything fell into place.
Quote from: Seth on February 11, 2014, 08:29:22 AM
Anyway, in short, my clarity began with understanding the difference between "letter" and "Spirit." Then, everything fell into place.
I thought I had a handle on that. I just figured the letter was pretty much the laws of the OT. Never got much more technical then that.
Thanks for your response though. It is often hard to figure out just what people are getting at.
The gist of the doctrine of my friends is that I don't understand what Paul was truly saying. I figure they are right in some matters. That is why I wondered why we needed all this "religion of Jews" stuff to know Christ.
I pretty much have my own way of looking at things, which in my friends eyes makes me have a false religion, proud, self willed and lawless. I'm thinking he may be right, and wondering if I am OK with that. Can I throw the Bible away and just follow Jesus?
:eek:
The Bible helps understand doctrine, and understanding doctrine really helps the walk, or at least it helped mine. But you don't need the Bible to love thy neighbor, which is the fulfillment of the Law. All you need is faith and the Spirit.
Don't the questions boil down to:
Does one recieve the Holy Spirit of God by keeping the law?
Is there anyone that was ever saved by keeping the law?
Are we told to walk in the spirit?
Does the New testament ever say we must follow the law?
Does Jesus say we fulfill the law by loving God and Man? :Chinscratch:
Pretty much.
Does one recieve the Holy Spirit of God by keeping the law? No
Is there anyone that was ever saved by keeping the law? No
Are we told to walk in the spirit? Yes
Does the New testament ever say we must follow the law? Romans 2 says that those walking by the Spirit will do things of the law by nature (instinctively), without having the law. He meant loving your neighbor, which fulfills the law.
Does Jesus say we fulfill the law by loving God and Man? Yes
Quote from: ed on February 11, 2014, 03:03:12 PM
Can I throw the Bible away and just follow Jesus?
:eek:
Is that blasphemy?
I feel like I'm going through another time of unsureness. I seldom have feelings of guilt. When I do I often find them to be me not meeting up to the standards of man. I've had a great relationship with God, and known and walked in a fine fellowship.................almost as if God is a pear.
Above someone mentioned one of the laws that is still in effect is to not blasphemy.
So I get to thinking, all this stuff I've been talking about is considered holy stuff. The Jewish Christian that I have been talking to calls Jesus yahshua.
I have not had to repent in years. Guilt is this God or man?
I have not used the verse "confess your sins and God is faithful and just to forgive......." in years. I've just known that I am forgiven.
Weird stuff.
Guess I'll repent and not do that anymore..................
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The way I view guilt is like this: If someone hurts another person and feels no guilt, that person is a sociopath, or possibly psychopath. There is a place for guilt, or one could call it a convicted conscience. I don't believe that some laws are in effect, but that God's people are to move from one walk to another.
Ed, if you had to make a choice between "letter" or "Spirit" which one would you choose, and why?
If you go back and listen to that presentation, do they talk about the gift of the Spirit and explain in detail why the Spirit is given as a gift to man? I don't think they mention it once, and certainly they don't provide detail about that. This is one of the biggest problems I see in Christian theology, both ET and UR, not explaining the purpose for the gift of the Spirit. Why did God give us the Holy Spirit? What does it do in regards to salvation from death? How does it make us consistent with the Law without being under the Law?
Quote from: Seth on February 11, 2014, 08:54:08 PM
The way I view guilt is like this: If someone hurts another person and feels no guilt, that person is a sociopath, or possibly psychopath. There is a place for guilt, or one could call it a convicted conscience. I don't believe that some laws are in effect, but that God's people are to move from one walk to another.
Ed, if you had to make a choice between "letter" or "Spirit" which one would you choose, and why?
I love simplicity. I don't do the letter of the law too well. I see myself as being above it. Yes, I am a blasphemer. Pretty sure there is no way out if that. God has always dealt with me in wonderful ways. Climbing back into Christianity is having some odd effects. Going through some things that I have gone through before, and learning some new things. Wrestling with doctrine is a fancy of mine, but it drives me a little nuts too. Figured I confess my faults here and see if I could be healed. All in lightheartedness. All is good. Thanks for your replies Seth. I enjoy your take on the Christian walk.
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