Hello everyone. Mike here. Today I spent some time thinking about this subject and I also responded to an et defender about this. I made the point that nobody actually "gets saved", and that there is nothing anyone can do to do that. Jesus Christ already did it all! He is the savior of the World(human race particularly) NOW. I stated that the message presented in churches is a false message and is NOT the Gospel that Paul preached. For example, when a sinner goes into your typical church, the sinner is told that if he/she does this , this, and that, then they will be saved. Thats not what Paul preached! Paul preached Jesus Christ, savior of the World. " How that God was in Christ, reconciling the World unto himself, not imputing their trespasses against them", and the ministry of reconciliation. In other words, Jesus already provided salvation, now believe in Jesus and what he did, and be reconciled now to God! Begin a relationship with God now, now that you know how much God loves you. You enter into this by turning your back from sin (repentance) , and turn to God , and then you begin a brand new relationship with Jesus Christ.
Now, you didn't just "get saved" by doing this. You entered into relationship with God because you found out that Jesus Christ already saved you, and made it possible for you to turn to God from sin. You were reconciled to God.
Now my point here is, I'm trying to understand just what was the Gospel that Paul preached. And how the message being preached in churches is wrong.
Just how should the Evangel , which was delivered unto Paul, be declared?
What do we say to sinners, about being saved? Why do churches have a condescending message to sinners? You know, they are all the unsaved, and until they do what we did, they are not saved?!!
Ok, thats about all. Any input here will be appreciated. :happy3:
It's all about ones perception of God. For He does not change — we do.
Mike,
This might sound like an oversimplification, but what about just sharing the gospel with them like Paul did, and call them to change their mind (which is what repentance means)? God will save them when he's ready. We're so used to the formula of saying; pray this prayer, or pray a prayer with these elements in it to receive Jesus as your personal savior. I see that nowhere in the scripture! When you speak to their inner man with the gospel, they will either receive it or they won't (right then). Paul and the apostles never threatened anyone with hell, either.
:cloud9: Hi fullarmor........He tore that down for me one day too. He told me He was in me all along, but I had to turn to Him with my whole heart, for Him to FULLY reveal Himself in me. I was stunned, and asked Him (since I had such a pronounced experience after "the prayer") how that could be? He told me that He had simply honored the faith where I was at at the time.
He has since stopped me from doing the sinner's prayer as a hard core obligation, but to move in His Spirit with people discerning their measure of faith, and talking to them about how He is in them, the very breath that they breathe, and they need only to acknowledge Him as being LORD and He will reveal Himself in their MIDST, where He was all along, but the darkness comprehended not the light. He is the light of ALL MEN that come into the world.
It seems to me the other route emphasizes SEPARATION, though He said He'd NEVER leave us nor forsake us. At what point was NEVER started/stopped?
He told me that the TRUE GOSPEL that comes with POWER had been obscured by the traditions of men, and that He was busy restoring it thru revelation thru and of His Spirit. It's not that hard to come to the conclusion that He is the savior of ALL MEN, if they are first informed He is IN ALL MEN, as He ever liveth (in us) to do intercession (between God and man).
Let the "rock throwing" begin..... :laughing7: Blessings....
Quote from: Doc on August 21, 2009, 09:19:41 AM
Mike,
This might sound like an oversimplification, but what about just sharing the gospel with them like Paul did, and call them to change their mind (which is what repentance means)? God will save them when he's ready. We're so used to the formula of saying; pray this prayer, or pray a prayer with these elements in it to receive Jesus as your personal savior. I see that nowhere in the scripture! When you speak to their inner man with the gospel, they will either receive it or they won't (right then). Paul and the apostles never threatened anyone with hell, either.
Well, where the prayer comes from is in place of water baptism which is what you find in the book of Acts. In the Gospels and Acts, there was always a "choose you this day, whom you will serve!" call to a decision, repentance, and faith in our Lord Jesus. The prayer is perfect to this end. I wish more folks read Charles Finney's book "Lectures On Revivals of Religion" 'cause then a real conversation on this could really begin that would probably be about a 75 page thread! roflol An interesting thread rather than banter about a subject the Bible is very serious about thru all of it's Apostles and Prophets of the Old and New Testaments. There are sooo many issues involved on the part of what bro Finney would refer to as a minister's work with the souls of sinners, and he advised against being hasty in these matters, but to do a thorough work in a life via the Spirit and the Word. If nothing else, his book is "food for thought," if not convincing to everyone here. He became an evangelist during the second great awakening after a career as a lawyer. Not sure how long he was a lawyer before going into the ministry, but reading him is a bit like reading St. Paul with the thoroughness he'll approach the subject with, again, even if you don't totally agree with him. You'll know you're arguing with a lawyer! :laughing7: