Hi all,
Just wanted to pour out a little of my heart because I feel like crap and have no one I can really talk to about it.
I guess to sum it all up I feel like a heretic. Why do I feel like a heretic? Because I've been called one or treated like one so many times by people who are supposed to love me. It's weird, believing in God's eternal love for me should draw me closer to Him but I feel farther from Him than I ever have. I think it's because I have always associated Him with the church/pastors, etc. and now that my own pastor (I guess I should say former pastor since I have not been attending church for a while now) considers me a heretic I think I must subconsciously think that God thinks I'm a heretic too... does that even make sense? :sigh: I don't know...
Apart from feeling like a heretic there are also so many things in the Bible that I don't understand... why would God burn up two people for offering "strange" fire before Him and then not even let their father mourn their deaths? I just don't know... there are many instances in the Bible that show God as gracious and merciful and loving and then you come to these passages and it just makes me wonder how I am supposed to relate to Him. How does He feel about me at any given moment? Is He going to burn me alive if I mess up? Why does He show such mercy to some and is so harsh with others? How do I know how which way He is going to deal with me?
I miss the days when I trusted Him with all my heart and was so madly in love with Him. I want to go back there sooooo badly.
Anyhow, glad to have had the opportunity to rant.
Quote from: lomarah on January 16, 2010, 03:55:44 PM
Hi all,
Just wanted to pour out a little of my heart because I feel like crap and have no one I can really talk to about it.
I guess to sum it all up I feel like a heretic. Why do I feel like a heretic? Because I've been called one or treated like one so many times by people who are supposed to love me. It's weird, believing in God's eternal love for me should draw me closer to Him but I feel farther from Him than I ever have. I think it's because I have always associated Him with the church/pastors, etc. and now that my own pastor (I guess I should say former pastor since I have not been attending church for a while now) considers me a heretic I think I must subconsciously think that God thinks I'm a heretic too... does that even make sense? :sigh: I don't know...
Apart from feeling like a heretic there are also so many things in the Bible that I don't understand... why would God burn up two people for offering "strange" fire before Him and then not even let their father mourn their deaths? I just don't know... there are many instances in the Bible that show God as gracious and merciful and loving and then you come to these passages and it just makes me wonder how I am supposed to relate to Him. How does He feel about me at any given moment? Is He going to burn me alive if I mess up? Why does He show such mercy to some and is so harsh with others? How do I know how which way He is going to deal with me?
I miss the days when I trusted Him with all my heart and was so madly in love with Him. I want to go back there sooooo badly.
Anyhow, glad to have had the opportunity to rant.
Your feelings are all understandable, I questioned what I came to believe when those in my personal religious life didn't really want to have much to do with me.
One of the problems we have with the depiction of God doing seemingly bad things to people is that we have yet to shed to religious shell that justifies it.
The ancient writings took literal events and painted a spiritual picture with them. God is seen destroying a place like haiti, when what we should see is that the events in haiti should be seen as what God will do to the bad inside of us, even things inside of us that seem "innocent".
Just some thoughts
The nature of God may be more human than we think. If we were created in the image of God, our emotions are a reflection of Him. In Ezekiel God expresses that His heart is broken like a young man betrayed by the unfaithfulness of his betrothed. In Hosea we see similar emotions expressed by Him as Hosea represents God and Hosea's faithless bride represents Israel. Perhaps if God can be sorrowful, and angry, and disappointed even as we, then we may understand Him better in His joy and in His pain. When the purposes of God become clear, His actions become clearer as well. I say this in hope, because I certainly do not understand all these things. Also, I do not believe that anger is automatically evil, though it can be evil. To say that God's mercy triumphs over His judgement is true. To say, however, that God does not judge based on His own transcendent wisdom and love for all(which means sometimes one or two must be disciplined for the deliverance of all) would be false- in my opinion. So I trust Him where I do not understand Him, and as I press into His love and His wisdom, crying out for understanding and seeking wisdom as the most precious jewel. I am learning that.....
Psa 85:8-13 I will hear what God the LORD will say; For He will speak peace to His people, to His godly ones; But let them not turn back to folly. Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him, That glory may dwell in our land. Lovingkindness and truth have met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth springs from the earth, And righteousness looks down from heaven. Indeed, the LORD will give what is good, And our land will yield its produce. Righteousness will go before Him And will make His footsteps into a way.
Heretic=not agreeing with orthodox (mainstream/the masses) beliefs
The "Church"/Ecclesia=the called out ones (no longer a part of the masses)
The masses don't like it - it can feel lonely, but please keep reading
God does "like it", that's why He chose you and called you out. He "trusts" you enough to reveal Himself to you. So there's a reason and a purpose. Press in, while at the same time, trusting and resting in Him and His intent to work IN and THROUGH you. He's doing it, so He know what He's doing.
See Hebrews 12:2 below.
Thanks guys. :girlheart:
I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood God" by Darin Hufford and he made an awesome point. He said that whatever type of attitude we have, that is what we will read as God's attitude in the Bible. If I am an angry person I will read mostly anger in the Bible. If I am a condemning person I will read condemnation in the Bible. If I am a fearful person I will see fear all throughout the Bible. Here are a couple of quotes from him because I think what he says is so true:
QuoteWhen we read Scriptures of Jesus' response to the Pharisees, we unwittingly insert a rude tone into His voice. We imagine Him talking this same way to people we don't like.
QuoteThe Bible says to speak the truth in love. Truth ceases to be truth if it is spoken in any tone other than love. We Christians mistakenly believe that being truthful is the same as being "correct". One plus one equals two. But that is not truth. Truth is a person with a personality and that personality is love. Truth and love are interwoven together. If you take out love, you also take out truth.
Brilliant!
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the comments and wisdom from you all.
Peace :cloud9:
Awesome quotes! I'm gonna read that book- thanx!
2Ti 2:23-26 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Mat 11:28-30 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
Jas 3:13-18 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom............But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
:cloud9: Keep your head up......we're ALL heretics, but we're heretics with an experience with God that no one can take away, and that's PRICELESS. Blessings....
Quote from: lomarah on January 18, 2010, 11:54:15 AM
Thanks guys. :girlheart:
I am reading a book called "The Misunderstood God" by Darin Hufford and he made an awesome point. He said that whatever type of attitude we have, that is what we will read as God's attitude in the Bible. If I am an angry person I will read mostly anger in the Bible. If I am a condemning person I will read condemnation in the Bible. If I am a fearful person I will see fear all throughout the Bible. Here are a couple of quotes from him because I think what he says is so true:
QuoteWhen we read Scriptures of Jesus' response to the Pharisees, we unwittingly insert a rude tone into His voice. We imagine Him talking this same way to people we don't like.
QuoteThe Bible says to speak the truth in love. Truth ceases to be truth if it is spoken in any tone other than love. We Christians mistakenly believe that being truthful is the same as being "correct". One plus one equals two. But that is not truth. Truth is a person with a personality and that personality is love. Truth and love are interwoven together. If you take out love, you also take out truth.
Brilliant!
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the comments and wisdom from you all.
Peace :cloud9:
Why couldn't the Bible (NT even.) been written in Japanese? It's not a very presice language, but you know can know their tone by the words they use. (In Japanese, there are different words you use, depending your status, and your relationship to the person you're talking to.)
Thanks Cardinal and eaglesway. :cloud9:
Lupac I know what you mean. I am coming to interpret every verse in light of knowing that God is love and that He is not willing that any should perish and that He does not willingly grieve the hearts of humans (or chastise us). Sometimes I find it hard to do so because some places in the Bible God seems extremely harsh, but I am trusting that He knows what He's doing and that it will all make sense in the end.
for some reason im reminded of the parable of the silversmith.
Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."
This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God.
One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible Study. That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver.
As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities.
The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot;then she thought again about the verse that says: "He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver."
She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed.
The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, "How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her and answered, "Oh, that's easy -- when I see my image in it"
If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God has his eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you.
Pass this on right now. This very moment, someone needs to know that God is watching over them. And, whatever they're going through, they'll be a better person in the end.
:cloud9: Loved that! :thumbsup: That's a keeper......Blessings....
A word about heresy and heretics.
Tit 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man(aihretikos) after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. NKJV
Tit 3:9-11 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned. NIV
Tit 3:10-11 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
I can only find this word a few times in the NT. The various translation make it clear, when read in context, that this is a factious/divisive person. Someone who is seeking to bind disciples to themselves in their own interests above Christ's. The issue of the doctrine taught is secondary, because even if there were someone whose doctrine was perfect, if they were seeking to separate disciples unto themselves in order to build their own agenda....they would be factious/heretics. Throughout history the majority position has always called the minority position heretics and used the label to persecute the truth out of existence. The Pharisees called the early Christians heretics.
Act 24:14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect(hairesis) I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
Gal 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: ................ selfish ambitions, dissensions(dichostasia), heresies(hairesis),....... and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Jas 3:16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions(dichostasia) and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned: and avoid them.
1 Co 3:3 For where there are envy, strife, and divisions(dichostasia) among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
1Co 11:18-19 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions(schisma) exist among you; and in part I believe it. For there must also be factions(hairesis) among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.
Jud 1:19 These are the ones who cause divisions (apodiorizo), worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.
Act 20:29-30 "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things(diastrophe), to draw away the disciples after them.
Col 2:18-19 Let no one who delights in (forced)humility and the worship of angels(exaltation of messengers) cheat you out of the prize by boasting about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without cause by his carnal mind. He does not hold on to the head, from whom the whole body, which is nourished and held together by its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that comes from God.
Those who divide and conquer the body of Christ are the heretics. Call no man "Father". Call no man "Teacher". You are all brothers and there is one who is your teacher.
Thanks chuckt. I had heard that one before and I absolutely love it. It's such a beautiful analogy of how God deals with us. :cloud9: I think I am going to print it out and tape it to my bedroom wall as a reminder.
Thanks for the info eaglesway. I had never thought much in depth about what a heretic really was before, I just know i've been called one and treated like one and it didn't feel very good.
QuoteThose who divide and conquer the body of Christ are the heretics. Call no man "Father". Call no man "Teacher". You are all brothers and there is one who is your teacher.
Amen!
hi there lomarah,
sorry to hear of your angst. But remember the prophets and even Christ were considered heretics! So your in good company to be sure.
Godbless
Nancy
I know. Thanks Nancy. :cloud9: