Hi there all,
Happy New Year and may God bring you all health and peace throughout this year!
The reason for this post is that when I come onto Tentmaker or other christian sites, I feel that I have to watch my p's and q's, make sure I listen to the 'RIGHT' music, watch the 'RIGHT' films, etc. I feel that I have to live my life as a nun in a nunnery!
Maybe it's me but I feel judged and that I have to be on my best behaviour as if people are flies on the wall of my life and will tell everyone what I get up to. I'm getting tired and sick of it to be honest. I get cross that other believers feel that they have a duty to tell others what to do. I have just come from another site where a member told everyone that listening to 'secular' music is bad for the soul and will turn you away from God! It may be bad for them but how dare they tell others what to do. It's like when church goers used to tell you that if you didn't go to church, you would forget God!
Forgive me if I sound angry but I have been told what to do all of my life and I've had enough. Maybe I am institutionalised in that I have been to one church or another for about 30 years of my life!
Is it me or am I paranoid about this?
Godbless
Nancy
Hi Nancy! In my own walk, I have found that I have absolutely zero control over what others think. The only control I have is over myself and my reactions to those who might respond in a negative way to me. So I have found that by shifting the focus to governing myself (by God's grace, of course) -- i.e., not blaming others for judging me -- I can eventually let it go. We can fall into a trap of judging those who judge us!!!
Jesus had many things to say about judging. In the gospel of Matthew, He says:
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that you be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you measure, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why behold you the speck that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the speck out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
Hope this helps you in some way. :smile:
phoebe
Quote from: Nacyhave just come from another site where a member told everyone that listening to 'secular' music is bad for the soul and will turn you away from God! It may be bad for them but how dare they tell others what to do.
It sounds like an orthodox site, well when you mix law and grace together, the law prevails hence the judging. As for the music, I listen to Josh Groban "You raise me up" and I see the soul of a man crying out to God with beautiful lyrics.
When I am down and, oh my soul, so weary;
When troubles come and my heart burdened be;
Then, I am still and wait here in the silence,
Until you come and sit awhile with me.
You raise me up, so I can stand on mountains;
You raise me up, to walk on stormy seas;
I am strong, when I am on your shoulders;
You raise me up: To more than I can be.
You raise me up, so I can stand on mountains;
You raise me up, to walk on stormy seas;
I am strong, when I am on your shoulders;
You raise me up: To more than I can be.
There is no life - no life without its hunger;
Each restless heart beats so imperfectly;
But when you come and I am filled with wonder,
Sometimes, I think I glimpse eternity.
You raise me up, so I can stand on mountains;
You raise me up, to walk on stormy seas;
I am strong, when I am on your shoulders;
You raise me up: To more than I can be.
You raise me up, so I can stand on mountains;
You raise me up, to walk on stormy seas;
I am strong, when I am on your shoulders;
You raise me up: To more than I can be.
Even John Wesley's music was criticized as being radical and offensive. I was looking for the quote and if you read it, it sounds like it was written yesterday.
Blessings
Hello, we all know that we are judged by others continually, and we whether intentionally or not often find ourselves judging others as well. I've learned that as long as I don't judge others, that I am at peace :Sparkletooth: (now if I could just quit doing it :sigh:) It seems, when I have set my mind, that I shall not talk about anybody negatively, that all of a sudden, I am given to a testing circumstance, where all of a sudden weird stuff starts happening and it seems people around me go wacky, attacking me, all of a sudden people start acting twisted, giving me more "good reason" than ever to be drawn into negative talking. :sigh:
:cloud9: I love that song too, Seeker........and AC, you proclaiming that (even in your mind) is EXACTLY why that happens to you everytime, LOL. Satan comes IMMEDIATELY to steal the Word/breath from our hearts. Rejoice though and overcome it thru the strength of the Spirit, because the fire only comes to bake that bread in you, so it can be broken and given out to feed the nations. Blessings to all.....
QuoteForgive me if I sound angry but I have been told what to do all of my life and I've had enough. Maybe I am institutionalised in that I have been to one church or another for about 30 years of my life!
Welcome to life.
Whether we are Christian, institutionalized religion, or not. People all tell others what to do all their lives. Right now, we are being told what to buy, what to eat, what to watch on t.v., what to read, what to vote, etc. We will never leave a world where someone or something is not telling us what we ought to do.
Next, most of the time, if it is an individual who knows us, it is for our own good they tell us, whether we take that advice or not is upto us. Yet, they can tell anyone what to do, there is no law against it, neither is it evil to do it. The only time it is wrong, is when we make wrong judgment and the only time it is unlawful is when it is unjust judgment. Taking offense over it, is plain pride and ego talking because we can just ignore them or we can tell them what to do with what they told us to do if you get my meaning; though, if we are against people telling each other what to do, the latter response would be rather hypocritical of us, now would it not?
Everyone who has had enough of it, I find are often telling what people should not do themselves and the reason they have enough is because nobody is listening to what they are telling them. So let us make sure we are not these people.
As for judgment, everyone makes judgments, we will never escape it, even God makes constant judgments. That doesn't mean it is bad, or evil, or malicious in nature. God's true judgments are one's which are impartial and sees all things. As I said in previous posts, judgment is not a bad, it is 'bad judgment' which is bad. There are judgments which are not ours to make, and to pass judgment over those matters, shows ignorance on our part.
So ignore it, or abide by it, but don't take offense over it.
QuoteMaybe it's me but I feel judged and that I have to be on my best behaviour as if people are flies on the wall of my life and will tell everyone what I get up to. I'm getting tired and sick of it to be honest. I get cross that other believers feel that they have a duty to tell others what to do. I have just come from another site where a member told everyone that listening to 'secular' music is bad for the soul and will turn you away from God! It may be bad for them but how dare they tell others what to do. It's like when church goers used to tell you that if you didn't go to church, you would forget God!
What does feeling judged mean? Does that mean one feels guilty? Does that mean one knows they are wrong but does not want to admit it except only on their terms? What is that feeling of being judged mean? Being judged is not at all the same as being told what to do!
From my experience, and from friendships and personal relationships where I have discussed this issue, the reason people tell us what to do, is because they genuinely care for us in some manner. What we can do is either accept their advice, or ignore it. Not everything someone tells us to do, is beneficial for us to do, but in order to know this, we have a responsibility to them and ourselves to be wise and knowledgable about what we think and do.
James 5:20Remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
1 Thessalonians 5:14And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone.2 Thessalonians 3:14-15If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but
warn him as a brother.
So I implore anyone who continues to mix up judgment with telling people what to do, that they are wrong. Warning a brother, is not judging them. Turning a brother from sin, is not judging him of sin.
The feeling of judgment is not judgment. If a person feels guilty, they have to investigate that feeling because the accuser can only make any accusation of guilt based on fact that wrong is committed and if there is any foot-hold of wrong we commit, we must close that door because we are doing the will of Satan in our lives.
1 John 3:6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
QuoteSo ignore it, or abide by it, but don't take offense over it.
I thought this was good advice.
If you are at peace with what you do, what others say should be like water off a duck's back. Who cares?
It is when you are not at peace with what you do or a people pleaser is when offense is taken.
I know from personal experience.
Love, Sarah
Hi, Nancy! Here's a big :friendstu:
Rejoice in the freedom God's given you! :HeartThrob:
I hope things improve for you, somehow. But some are right, it's the way of natural man.
The Lord talking to you about yourself will overcome it. You will know HE loves you,
and has already "judged" you to be seated with HIM in heavenly places. Remember Job
when he got turned over to the devil, the devil made him "judge" them for "judging" "him"
but look at what all he learned in that experience.........don't think you are the only one!!!
I bet Job learned too that God's Word was greater than anything the devil had put on him.
:cloud9: PS. for Nancy. Years ago, when I first came to the Lord, I had a dream I knew was from the Lord, but I didn't understand it. I shared this dream at a bible study I was having. Someone there who moved in the Spirit of the Lord normally, and had been walking with Him for many years, was having a really bad day. Apparently, my dream was enough to put her over the edge, and she railed at me for about 20 minutes. I could not figure out what this was coming thru her, it was plain to see it wasn't God.
For 3 days, I felt like a bucket of slime had been poured over me. Finally the 3rd day, the Lord spoke to me and said, "This is not of My Spirit, cast it down. This is the spirit of condemnation."
I did, and got my joy back. What followed was Him teaching me about the ministry of condemnation which ministers death to the hearer, instead of ministering the life of the Spirit. I know that spirit well, having dealt with it many times in the years following that experience. It always tries to cast a fowler's net over the Spirit of God in the individual. PTL, the dove cannot be contained. Blessings to you......
Hi there,
Thanks all,
I am very much a people pleaser!
But you are right I also tell people what to do!!!!
What a hypocrite i am!
I think that i am harsher on myself than God is.
Godbless
Nancy
Hey Nan: Yep, you are right - lots of Holier than Thou's out there. However, I find that most people, even over the internet, don't offer advice (or judgment) unless it's asked of them.
Nevertheless, from my perspective, I find it difficult to throw rocks from my glass enclosure! We are all different and our lives are not all in the same "place", so, "rock on with your bad self", if you like! You see, I can trust God with you! I assume that He will let you know when you are out of bounds. Aren't you glad you don't need my approval?
But, if you ask me what I think, well Lassie, THAT is another thing altogether!
Grace & Peace, John (Dad to five and part-time Cat Herder) :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: Loved the part time cat herder part, John, LOL......
It's funny but some people love their conscience to be the guide of others. The freedom we have in Christ comes with a blameless conscience and we can stand as such before God and before men.
Quote from: Nancy on January 07, 2008, 06:11:43 PM
Hi there,
Thanks all,
I am very much a people pleaser!
But you are right I also tell people what to do!!!!
What a hypocrite i am!
I think that i am harsher on myself than God is.
Godbless
Nancy
Just so you know Nancy, I did not mean my post in a harsh way. My apologies if for any reason I have offended you in my post. For myself, I have come to the realization that we tell people what to do and think all the time what we think and what they should think and what we do and what they should do. Sometimes it is for good, and sometimes it is for evil and sometimes it is out of ignorance. My conclusion is, we just need to realize that since we are people with choices and emotions, we have to learn to control our reactions and sometimes just ignore people. Glad you had the courage to bring up your concerns.
God Bless.
Quote from: jfraysse on January 07, 2008, 06:55:32 PM
Hey Nan: Yep, you are right - lots of Holier than Thou's out there. However, I find that most people, even over the internet, don't offer advice (or judgment) unless it's asked of them.
Nevertheless, from my perspective, I find it difficult to throw rocks from my glass enclosure! We are all different and our lives are not all in the same "place", so, "rock on with your bad self", if you like! You see, I can trust God with you! I assume that He will let you know when you are out of bounds. Aren't you glad you don't need my approval?
But, if you ask me what I think, well Lassie, THAT is another thing altogether!
Grace & Peace, John (Dad to five and part-time Cat Herder) :HeartThrob:
You rock John! :thumbsup: Great post
kept
Quote from: Nancy on January 07, 2008, 06:11:43 PM
Hi there,
Thanks all,
I am very much a people pleaser!
But you are right I also tell people what to do!!!!
What a hypocrite i am!
I think that i am harsher on myself than God is.
Godbless
Nancy
Hi again Nancy. As a postscript, I would say, be gentle with yourself. When you do, it becomes easier to discern the true from the false, the good from the bad, the right action from the wrong action. Keep in mind that if there is something you are struggling with, it's very likely many others are also facing the same challenges. I've been in both the "judging" role and the "judged" role, and neither place is very comfortable. God bless you!
phoebe
Hi there,
Thanks for all your encouragement!
SOtW I'm sorry if i made you feel that YOU upset me! I felt chastised I think, it's because i feel that of myself already! So no worries, my skin is harder than that!!!!!
God bless for your kind thoughts of me though.
Godbless
Nancy
Nancy,
I feel for you. What's helped me are the teaching from these links. Total grace. Amazing.
Thanks
Giz
www.gospelrevolution.com
www.glennkleinonline.com/webcast/guests/mwilliams.html
www.gospelogic.com/audio.htm
I'll pray for you Nancy.
Quote from: Nancy on January 06, 2008, 03:17:21 AM
I have just come from another site where a member told everyone that listening to 'secular' music is bad for the soul and will turn you away from God!
It's strange how the 'church' likes to put music in a totally different catagory than all other art forms.
Religion loves to seperate 'secular' and 'Christian' into nice neat distinct compartments.
To tell a Christian not to listen to 'secular' music is the same as telling them not to look at a secular painting or admire secular architecture. Of course any believer should have discernment about what to look at/listen too and what not to.
I admit there was a time in my early Christian walk to make a clean break from anything except hardcore Jesus based stuff but I see that more like fasting. It's good to get food out of your life for a season for the purpose of focus.
By the same token, to tell a Christian songwriter to only write songs about God is the same as telling a Christian painter to only paint pictures of Jesus or a Christian architect to only design churches :mshock:
All that being said - be obedient to God - it's nobody's business what you listen too!
- byron
PS - Coldplay rocks! :bgdance:
Quote from: firstborn888 on January 23, 2008, 10:15:01 AM
It's strange how the 'church' likes to put music in a totally different catagory than all other art forms.
Well, Byron, you see, that's because satan was once a giant tambourine...
:icon_jokercolor:
Quote from: hopeful on January 23, 2008, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: firstborn888 on January 23, 2008, 10:15:01 AM
It's strange how the 'church' likes to put music in a totally different catagory than all other art forms.
Well, Byron, you see, that's because satan was once a giant tambourine...
:icon_jokercolor:
:cloud9: :grin: :laughing7: I see you've been to some of the same churches I have, LOL.....
Quote from: Cardinal on January 23, 2008, 04:53:30 PM
:cloud9: :grin: :laughing7: I see you've been to some of the same churches I have, LOL.....
:happygrin: Yup! :faint:
OH NO!!!
Does this mean I will rot in Hell for liking Rock-n-Roll and having a Harley?? Nah.
:cloud9: What can I say, dude; you shoulda bought a Honda and listened to monks chanting........ :mshock: :winkgrin: :laughing7:
Bobbed fenders and springer front ends just dont look the same on a honda. Besides that Puck-a-ta puck-a-ta exhaust note is truly music to my ears!! Geez, I shouldn't a said that, now you guys are gonna run me off of the site and make me go join HIM (Hogs in Ministry). Gregorian chanting just doesn't do much for me most of the time, and none of them have any bluesy guitar licks in them.
Well, let's see Rev G... I think the general line of thinking is that Rock and Roll and Harley's will tempt you further down the slippery slope of eventually becoming a murderer or rapist. It's so very dangerous "out there" in the world. :icon_jokercolor:
Well, I guess if and when that happens at least I'll have a scapegoat for my actions!! The Harley made me do it!
Quote from: hopeful on January 23, 2008, 01:08:11 PM
Quote from: firstborn888 on January 23, 2008, 10:15:01 AM
It's strange how the 'church' likes to put music in a totally different catagory than all other art forms.
Well, Byron, you see, that's because satan was once a giant tambourine...
:icon_jokercolor:
ILMAO
ROFL
I guess if ANY of us were ever a giant living cosmic tambourine then pride would be sure to follow... right?
:laughing7: :bgdance:
Quote from: firstborn888 on January 24, 2008, 10:49:46 AM
I guess if ANY of us were ever a giant living cosmic tambourine then pride would be sure to follow... right?
:laughing7: :bgdance:
Well, for sure! I mean if I were a giant tamborine, I'd want to be God and start a war with Him. Who wouldn't? :dontknow: :ghaha:
Lord, help us!!! :Sparkletooth:
Hmmmm,
So does that mean if I listen to "Hey Mr. Tambourine Man" I am actually worshipping Satan?
:gamer: :surrender: :laughing7:
Quote from: Reverend G on January 24, 2008, 09:49:36 PM
Hmmmm,
So does that mean if I listen to "Hey Mr. Tambourine Man" I am actually worshipping Satan?
Yes, that's the root of all evil right there. And aren't 'byrds' symbollic of demons? see the connection?
- b
BTW Hopeful - your comment is getting RAVE REVIEWS among my UR friends
I think that's the funniest thing I've ever heard in my entire life
I believe that it is a logical falacy, a red herring, and a strawman argument concerning Mr. Tamborine Man in light of the Byrds also singing a song directly from Ecclesiastes (Turn, Turn, Turn).
Can you tell I don't understand what those debating terms mean?
John
Quote from: Kratos on January 25, 2008, 09:18:06 AM
I believe that it is a logical falacy, a red herring, and a strawman argument concerning Mr. Tamborine Man in light of the Byrds also singing a song directly from Ecclesiastes (Turn, Turn, Turn).
Can you tell I don't understand what those debating terms mean?
No.
(except for maybe the red herring thing)
Well the tamborine is a new one on me I must admit. Here they say he, satan aka Lucifer was not only the P&W leader of the angels, he was a beautiful instrument too, they described him more like a pipe organ.
Hence being the chief musician before he got kicked out, anything other than pipe organ music is not heavenly but satanic, seems he left his pipe organ bits behind and thus when the electric fuzz and whammy guitar entered the scene, the rebellious youth playing music using this device made music unto satan - horror of horrors. Never mind drums and bass, btw do you know in heaven we shall all sing on one note as the folk do in the "spirit" a sustained monotone without percussion
Hoo boy I can just imagine God like this:
(http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/compneurolab/images/loudnoisesmall.jpg)
Seems that the universal language of music Seven Keys (magic number seven) and all the minors, majors, augmented, diminished, sevenths et al are all going to be abandoned in heaven. There are 88 keys on a piano considered the most versatile/complete instrument ever, 88 significant?
:laughing7:
For me, the best comedy is when we can laugh at ourselves! :pointlaugh:
Well, I guess I can lose the Floyd Rose equipped guitars, but I'm holding tight to my Les Pauls. And I guess I'll be dragged down the slippery slope to Hell by the weight of my marshall stack? Maybe just a 50 watt bluesbreaker combo instead? Hey, I could trade it all in on that peavey motorcycle they built on orange county choppers, and be Satan's roving minstrel. Have my wife ride on the back with, well of course, a tambourine!!
Quote from: Reverend G on January 26, 2008, 02:21:30 AM
Well, I guess I can lose the Floyd Rose equipped guitars, but I'm holding tight to my Les Pauls. And I guess I'll be dragged down the slippery slope to Hell by the weight of my marshall stack? Maybe just a 50 watt bluesbreaker combo instead? Hey, I could trade it all in on that peavey motorcycle they built on orange county choppers, and be Satan's roving minstrel. Have my wife ride on the back with, well of course, a tambourine!!
Hey, I thought Peavey was the accepted Southern Gospel music brand.
Quote from: Reverend G on January 26, 2008, 02:21:30 AM
Well, I guess I can lose the Floyd Rose equipped guitars, but I'm holding tight to my Les Pauls. And I guess I'll be dragged down the slippery slope to Hell by the weight of my marshall stack? Maybe just a 50 watt bluesbreaker combo instead? Hey, I could trade it all in on that peavey motorcycle they built on orange county choppers, and be Satan's roving minstrel. Have my wife ride on the back with, well of course, a tambourine!!
Believe it or not, my favorite guitar is a Floyd Rose equipped Peavey Falcon. noname must be right - I'm the serpent seed :happygrin:
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Quote from: Nancy on January 06, 2008, 03:17:21 AM
Hi there all,
It's like when church goers used to tell you that if you didn't go to church, you would forget God!
Godbless
Nancy
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nancy,
Take this message from an old non-church joiner, never by joining of an institution built by the hands of men though I have friends in various churches and friends outside the churches and I have visited churches, that is me. I was not raised up in a traditional church going family so I have never been indoctrinated into any denominational or institutional church religion, yet I was taught about the gospel of Christ by my family, and yes the teacher has came into my life, however even when one has never joined a church we are still judged by men according to the flesh in this world, I don't know and probably couldn't count how many times I was told in years gone by that if I didn't go to church that then my life served no purpose to God, I do not even bother with being concerned with it now, of course these things I believe we all pass through and it rains on all alike. What helped me was that I know God works all things for our good, even the adversity we pass through is a friend in work clothes, and he blessed me with peace of mind and rest inwardly so that now when folks say such things I no longer take it personaly, if I do get too far away from him and into the flesh the spirit brings me right back to worshiping in spirit and in truth for God is a spirit.
Hope this message brings you some fresh air.
Peace
Fire Walker
Yes, my skin gets thicker every year, Nancy, and the things "they" say don't hurt as bad.
It's taken me a long time to grow up but we're getting there! :thumbsup:
Gotta watch out for them whammy bars!! Especially if you have a "d-dropper" attached. Everyone knows that drop d is the favorite key of Satan. Hmm, maybe the marketing of 7 string guitars was done to promote some satanic numerological thing?