feeling a bit stressed again!

[Truth seeker]

Sorry eveyone,

I guess the foundation to my worry is just the fact I dont understand enough on the bible yet. I do read daily so hopefully it will start to go in :Pray:

I was reading an article on something today but when I was reading the final thoughts it got me stressing again:

"Jesus warned us that in the end times there will come MANY false teachers. It will be a time of great spiritual deception to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. It would be difficult to deceive genuine Christians by the charismatic movement, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons. These deceptive teachings are more than obvious. But not so with the Pentecostal movement which has a godly appearance. Beware of the counterfeit, those who appear to be godly but deny Jesus by their rotten fruit (1 John 3:8-10). And when the Antichrist will arise, he will not be against religion or God. "Anti" means "instead" not ,,contra" or ,,against". He, like Absalom, will be handsome and very kind, little by little stealing the hearts of the people by warm hugs & tickling their ears with flattering deception.

The Bible says that the majority of the people will go to hell (Matt 7:14) and many of them will even be those who think they are believers! When I read Matthew 7:22-23 I can only think of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement because that perfectly describes what is going on there. "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!".




I just think i`m sure all of us on some points will be wrong, even on here none of us can be 100% right. Does this mean a loving God will come down on us and punish so serverely for just miss-understanding?? with so many denominations of christianity if a large % of them wont go to heaven because they got it wrong and on top of them a larger % of the world (those who dont believe) will also not got to heaven, Heavens looking like a mighty small place! from this statment I can only come to the conclusion Jesus came to save the world but failed and the devil won or Jesus is the saviour of a few 1000 compaired to the 144 billion thats estmated to have lived! Its no wonder sometimes its so hard to spread the word when messages like this are spread. Does this not suggest we are condemed by works that went wrong? and if we did the right works we would have been ok? if so this means we got to heaven by way of works? Obviously I know its by faith alone but sometimes I think do people not read what they have jus written and think about what they have just said!

It all drives me crazy and when my understanding is still fairly small it can really push me to worry and stress, have I got it all wrong? will he punish me? the old testament can be quite harsh maybe he will???

urgh need a coffee!!!

[Truth seeker]

I decided to reply to the article as it was winding me up!

"I find so much of this confusing! especially the comments that most will go to hell in the end including many who thought they would go to heaven. So in a nutshell this says Jesus is not the saviour of the world Jesus is possibly/technically/might be the saviour of the world but becasue we dont WORK in beliveing in him he wont be. He didnt save us while we was still in sin, it wasnt finished upon the cross there was more we had to do. Jesus is the saviour of a few thosand compared to the 144 billion that will burn forever in hell because they "got it wrong"

oh and its not God that sends us to hell  its becuase we chose wrongly even though God knows we get it wrong all the time he expects us to get it right on this occasion?"

[rosered]

Hello Truthseeker ,

     I do believe understanding what hell means   in the word , it is NOT the kind most carnally minded men think it means .....
hell meaning    grave in the old  testament    ..    to be carnally minded is death     , grave mode ...

Heaven and Hell are not  literal places  , but   thoughts in our minds     that torment  us  or  gives us peace

  How could David say  these things about his   life      Psalms 139 ; 8 You have Searched Me and Know Me


...7Where can I go from Your Spirit?

Or where can I flee from Your presence?

8If I ascend to heaven, You are there;

If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.


9If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea,...

How could Paul say  , we are seated with Christ in heavenly places ?     if it is not in our Spirit ?

  in Romans  14 Paul says   the Kingdom of God is peace and  joy and the HOLY SPIRIT

This is a state of being   , and not literal     ..

One of the  hardest things to do ,  is stop thinking so literally

  It takes faith in the  LORD  to change our minds   from thinking death to Life and it is a process  ,  God sees and knows your struggles  and He is your helper

LOVE is what makes all the  difference  , sounds  so cliche'   

But hearing His voice  above all the confusion / many voices /waters     
  Some are Above and some are below

  This helped me and hope it helps you as well   GOD BLESS YOU

Have been  looking into a  couple of translations  as of late ,  some are more accurate and some are much easier to read  and understand  ..

What good is a bible translation if you don't  ''get it '' ?  For me   we limit ourselves  , when we set in our minds only one way  to look at things . this makes a very small perspective  and view

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalms+29&version=NRSV

◄ Psalm 29 ►
Young's Literal Translation
Ascribe Glory to the Lord
1A Psalm of David. Ascribe to Jehovah, ye sons of the mighty, Ascribe to Jehovah honour and strength.

2Ascribe to Jehovah the honour of His name, Bow yourselves to Jehovah, In the beauty of holiness.

3The voice of Jehovah [is] on the waters, The God of glory hath thundered, Jehovah [is] on many waters.

4The voice of Jehovah [is] with power, The voice of Jehovah [is] with majesty,

5The voice of Jehovah [is] shivering cedars, Yea, Jehovah shivers the cedars of Lebanon.

6And He causeth them to skip as a calf, Lebanon and Sirion as a son of Reems,

7The voice of Jehovah is hewing fiery flames,

8The voice of Jehovah paineth a wilderness, Jehovah paineth the wilderness of Kadesh.

9The voice of Jehovah paineth the oaks, And maketh bare the forests, And in His temple every one saith, 'Glory.'

10Jehovah on the deluge hath sat, And Jehovah sitteth king — to the age,

11Jehovah strength to his people giveth, Jehovah blesseth His people with peace!

  Thoughts and prayers are with you ....

[Truth seeker]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

[rosered]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

  Well bless your heart   Truthseeker ,
  You are exactly right and being cautious  ,     the UR  seems to good to  be true , and it is  JESUS  and that  narrow path that leads to Life
  the UR   is despised , but  if   you really  think about it ,    everyone  rejects what they do not know  or understand ...

  The mind of Christ    is  understanding       Gods  desire /will  for all  , it is Gods will that none perish   we should all have that same attitude /nature working in us ..  1Cor2

Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Philippians 4:8 NRSV   

Trust in the Lord , it took time  for many of us here and some  it did not ,,,,  we are all  different   and yet the same    GOD BLESS YOU!!!! :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

Yes! that's it!! take the liberty to shut yourself away.. with Him...! It's the remedy. (Imo:) :dsunny:

He is in the quietness.. I can't speak for any others.. but God gave me a formula for deep inner healing.. (It sounds a little goofy, I know.. but hey.. it works! for me anyway!)

God is a God of order. (And even what seems the most complex of things, is basically simplicity.)
I was sitting on a bench under some plum trees and grape vines. Lo and behold I had found some plums that no worms had gotten! So I ate a couple and thanked the Lord. It was a very nice day. As I was musing it seemed as though a calendar opened up before me, in my mind's eye.. over a blue sky background. That there are four seasons with three times a day - 24/7. Each season with its particular spiritual lesson. I think of it as the 4 + 3 prescription. I see the big "Rexall" sign before it.. :laughing7:

..three times a day to worship Him.. "you make the places where morning and evening meet to leap for joy" (badly? paraphrased from Psalms)

Psalm 65:8 "You make the places where morning and evening have birth, to shout for joy.." ..and then there's gethsemane's moonlit hour.. Three times a day throughout four seasons every year..

It's a box and pattern I can put my mind in.. and put up a shield of faith/trust and deny every negative idea.. Turn from every negative thought.. The shield deflects the arrows and they fall to the ground bent and broken.

I believe we do well to allow ourselves much time(s) to rest quietly in Him. Listening to His quiet and soft voice.. of reason.
       :dsunny:

4+3= :cloud9: (  :laughing7: )

[marie glen]

  Well bless your heart   Truthseeker ,
  You are exactly right and being cautious  ,     the UR  seems to good to  be true , and it is  JESUS  and that  narrow path that leads to Life
  the UR   is despised , but  if   you really  think about it ,    everyone  rejects what they do not know  or understand ...

  The mind of Christ    is  understanding       Gods  desire /will  for all  , it is Gods will that none perish   we should all have that same attitude /nature working in us ..  1Cor2

Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Philippians 4:8 NRSV   

Trust in the Lord , it took time  for many of us here and some  it did not ,,,,  we are all  different   and yet the same    GOD BLESS YOU!!!! :HeartThrob:

Amen, amen, Rose! :thumbsup: :gsmile: "too good to be true" ..it took me a long time to unlearn the feeling of (what they call) "the ax is going to fall". When things are well, it's in the human psyche.. some more than others(?) that surely soon enough the ax will fall because it's too good to be true to exist without a problem going on. It got to feel like a threat.. and isn't that what 'the gods' were about? woe to any mortal that got too happy cause 'the gods' would shoot 'em down, put 'em in their place.. (sometimes rather drastically, those very mean old threatening 'gods')..

blessings Rose! :friendstu:

[Truth seeker]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

  Well bless your heart   Truthseeker ,
  You are exactly right and being cautious  ,     the UR  seems to good to  be true , and it is  JESUS  and that  narrow path that leads to Life
  the UR   is despised , but  if   you really  think about it ,    everyone  rejects what they do not know  or understand ...

  The mind of Christ    is  understanding       Gods  desire /will  for all  , it is Gods will that none perish   we should all have that same attitude /nature working in us ..  1Cor2

Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Philippians 4:8 NRSV   

Trust in the Lord , it took time  for many of us here and some  it did not ,,,,  we are all  different   and yet the same    GOD BLESS YOU!!!! :HeartThrob:

thank you again! :iagree: :iagree: It seems a lot of belivers have to have this hate and torture belief in their life for some reason.  I do feel God is guiding me. A long time ago I was directed to tentmaker but turned away when I saw the universalism belief. Yet again I was shown it as if to say "take another loo" I wonder why God would let others think this way but for now I have to grow my understanding personally with God I know he has a plan and I know he knows I struggle.

I always remember 2 Tim 2:13
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

and so even when im at my lowest with fear and doubt he seems to show me some light to carry on.  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 
  Amen sista Marie  :banana:

  went off to ''dig in ''    looking for ourselves if this be true  , like a Berean  :dsunny:

  Acts 17 10The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.


11Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. 12Therefore many of them believed, along with a number of prominent Greek women and men....

Can you imagine how hard it would have been to   receive this after knowing NOTHING   but the law   for centuries ?
  Than suddenly Jesus comes and tells them this good news ?     

He was persecuted   horribly    by all those whom  knew the Law   and they were  Jesus main opposers

  I do believe Paul was given that same measure ,  when   he was a main one     who killed many a  new Christians   and Jesus told Him ,Saul   why are you persecuting Me !!    the risen Christ on the road to Damascus       

   and told Him  how many things he would suffer  for His names sake     ,,,   lots of adversaries    speaking and plotting against the LORD JESUS CHRIST !!

  Sinners against Himself 

Hebrews 12

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,

2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross, disregarding its shame, and has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 Consider him who endured such hostility against himself from sinners, so that you may not grow weary or lose heart.

4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

5 And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as children—

"My child, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
    or lose heart when you are punished by him;
6 for the Lord disciplines those whom he loves,
    and chastises every child whom he accepts."

     The way of the Cross is a narrow path   that leads to Life , seeing that throne   whom Jesus sits and the promise you will  sit with Him and His Father [Rev 3]

  but the painful way  we first must go though   , many loose heart       as it is written and encouraged not too ....

  :HeartThrob:

[Truth seeker]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

Yes! that's it!! take the liberty to shut yourself away.. with Him...! It's the remedy. (Imo:) :dsunny:

He is in the quietness.. I can't speak for any others.. but God gave me a formula for deep inner healing.. (It sounds a little goofy, I know.. but hey.. it works! for me anyway!)

God is a God of order. (And even what seems the most complex of things, is basically simplicity.)
I was sitting on a bench under some plum trees and grape vines. Lo and behold I had found some plums that no worms had gotten! So I ate a couple and thanked the Lord. It was a very nice day. As I was musing it seemed as though a calendar opened up before me, in my mind's eye.. over a blue sky background. That there are four seasons with three times a day - 24/7. Each season with its particular spiritual lesson. I think of it as the 4 + 3 prescription. I see the big "Rexall" sign before it.. :laughing7:

..three times a day to worship Him.. "you make the places where morning and evening meet to leap for joy" (badly? paraphrased from Psalms)

Psalm 65:8 "You make the places where morning and evening have birth, to shout for joy.." ..and then there's gethsemane's moonlit hour.. Three times a day throughout four seasons every year..

It's a box and pattern I can put my mind in.. and put up a shield of faith/trust and deny every negative idea.. Turn from every negative thought.. The shield deflects the arrows and they fall to the ground bent and broken.

I believe we do well to allow ourselves much time(s) to rest quietly in Him. Listening to His quiet and soft voice.. of reason.
       :dsunny:

4+3= :cloud9: (  :laughing7: )

I do think at times we need nothing more than God. Church, friends, family can sometimes cloud our thoughts and understandings. In some ways I feel I have this ET disease thats being slowly treated. Thank you for your comment I will remember and apply this. I have started getting up just a little earlier for work so I can spend a little time to pray and read. I must develop this more. :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Many thanks again Rosered ou have helped me so much already.

I think its going to take time to break down the walls from being brain washed into eternal torment. Of course the path is narrow the only path is Jesus! I know this but I have this little voice in my head saying im getting it wrong and we will be punished. I have started to watch some of the tentmaker youtube videos as well as study on here and in my bible. I just feel like shuting myself away from all the things I keep hearing from church/facebook or ET belivers!!

I guess it will take time and prayer! :Pray:

  Well bless your heart   Truthseeker ,
  You are exactly right and being cautious  ,     the UR  seems to good to  be true , and it is  JESUS  and that  narrow path that leads to Life
  the UR   is despised , but  if   you really  think about it ,    everyone  rejects what they do not know  or understand ...

  The mind of Christ    is  understanding       Gods  desire /will  for all  , it is Gods will that none perish   we should all have that same attitude /nature working in us ..  1Cor2

Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.
Philippians 4:8 NRSV   

Trust in the Lord , it took time  for many of us here and some  it did not ,,,,  we are all  different   and yet the same    GOD BLESS YOU!!!! :HeartThrob:

thank you again! :iagree: :iagree: It seems a lot of belivers have to have this hate and torture belief in their life for some reason.  I do feel God is guiding me. A long time ago I was directed to tentmaker but turned away when I saw the universalism belief. Yet again I was shown it as if to say "take another loo" I wonder why God would let others think this way but for now I have to grow my understanding personally with God I know he has a plan and I know he knows I struggle.

I always remember 2 Tim 2:13
if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

and so even when im at my lowest with fear and doubt he seems to show me some light to carry on.  :HeartThrob:

  Amen , what helped me most    brother was  if they do not point to JESUS    ,    JESUS has to be the main focal point    , if they have some other  ideas of How salvations comes except  by Jesus Christ and His word and Spirit working in you   , not you working to    get to Jesus  but Christ coming to you  and  HOLY SPIRIT    teaching you  ,  we   become leery     of those  conditional     teachers  and talkers and religious experts , they lack the LOVE   FOR GOD in my opinion and   point in the other direction  scattering the sheep instead of pointing to JESUS OUR GOOD SHEPHERD     whom are to be gathered into Him !!   ...

[CHB]

I decided to reply to the article as it was winding me up!

"I find so much of this confusing! especially the comments that most will go to hell in the end including many who thought they would go to heaven. So in a nutshell this says Jesus is not the saviour of the world Jesus is possibly/technically/might be the saviour of the world but becasue we dont WORK in beliveing in him he wont be. He didnt save us while we was still in sin, it wasnt finished upon the cross there was more we had to do. Jesus is the saviour of a few thosand compared to the 144 billion that will burn forever in hell because they "got it wrong"

oh and its not God that sends us to hell  its becuase we chose wrongly even though God knows we get it wrong all the time he expects us to get it right on this occasion?"

Hi Truth seeker,

It was these very things that you have questioned that made UR sensible to me. Most of religion admits that we cannot save ourselves but we must do this or that or we will go to hell. They also say we send ourselves to hell. How do we send ourselves to hell when we cannot send ourselves to heaven? Duh!! I find this contradictory.

My personal search for the answers to these questions was prayer. I ask God to open my mind to know him personally and to show me the truth because only he knows the absolute truth. Believe he will show you and he will. My prayers are with you.

CHB

[Truth seeker]

Hi CHB
Thanks for helping. The more I read into UR like you the more it seems to make sense and not just wishful thinking. How much glory does it bring God that he can save even the most wretched of us.

[darryl]

Sorry eveyone,

I guess the foundation to my worry is just the fact I dont understand enough on the bible yet. I do read daily so hopefully it will start to go in :Pray:

I was reading an article on something today but when I was reading the final thoughts it got me stressing again:

"Jesus warned us that in the end times there will come MANY false teachers. It will be a time of great spiritual deception to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. It would be difficult to deceive genuine Christians by the charismatic movement, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons. These deceptive teachings are more than obvious. But not so with the Pentecostal movement which has a godly appearance. Beware of the counterfeit, those who appear to be godly but deny Jesus by their rotten fruit (1 John 3:8-10). And when the Antichrist will arise, he will not be against religion or God. "Anti" means "instead" not ,,contra" or ,,against". He, like Absalom, will be handsome and very kind, little by little stealing the hearts of the people by warm hugs & tickling their ears with flattering deception.

The Bible says that the majority of the people will go to hell (Matt 7:14) and many of them will even be those who think they are believers! When I read Matthew 7:22-23 I can only think of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement because that perfectly describes what is going on there. "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!".




I just think i`m sure all of us on some points will be wrong, even on here none of us can be 100% right. Does this mean a loving God will come down on us and punish so serverely for just miss-understanding?? with so many denominations of christianity if a large % of them wont go to heaven because they got it wrong and on top of them a larger % of the world (those who dont believe) will also not got to heaven, Heavens looking like a mighty small place! from this statment I can only come to the conclusion Jesus came to save the world but failed and the devil won or Jesus is the saviour of a few 1000 compaired to the 144 billion thats estmated to have lived! Its no wonder sometimes its so hard to spread the word when messages like this are spread. Does this not suggest we are condemed by works that went wrong? and if we did the right works we would have been ok? if so this means we got to heaven by way of works? Obviously I know its by faith alone but sometimes I think do people not read what they have jus written and think about what they have just said!

It all drives me crazy and when my understanding is still fairly small it can really push me to worry and stress, have I got it all wrong? will he punish me? the old testament can be quite harsh maybe he will???

urgh need a coffee!!!

much of the problem is due to the fact that we read the Bible in English translated by 'ET' translators and not in the original language(s)...anyway, in Mt7 : 23 Jesus says, "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness'.'Please note He doesn't say 'depart from me into 'eternal (aidios) torment in hellfire...'

....yes, they do depart but only into a period of corrective chastening, not eternal torment...how do I know this ?..one reason is because in Mt 25:46 Jesus says,

46. "And so, these folks will be going off into an eonian pruning (a lopping-off which lasts for an undetermined length of time; an age-lasting correction; a pruning which has its source and character in the Age).MITCHELLS TRANSLATION.

Jesus NEVER uses the Greek term for 'eternal torment' (aiodios timora). He uses 'AIONION KOLASIS' meaning 'age- during correction'.

Also in Jeremiah 32:35 concerning sacrificing children by burning them alive to Molech, God says burning people in fire is an abomination to Him..the very thought never entered His mind.So, God hates the act of burning humans alive for Molech yet will burn human beings, whom He created,  alive for all eternity ?. No, this idea of 'eternal torment' is obviously wrong.

[darryl]

Sorry eveyone,

I guess the foundation to my worry is just the fact I dont understand enough on the bible yet. I do read daily so hopefully it will start to go in :Pray:

I was reading an article on something today but when I was reading the final thoughts it got me stressing again:

"Jesus warned us that in the end times there will come MANY false teachers. It will be a time of great spiritual deception to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. It would be difficult to deceive genuine Christians by the charismatic movement, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons. These deceptive teachings are more than obvious. But not so with the Pentecostal movement which has a godly appearance. Beware of the counterfeit, those who appear to be godly but deny Jesus by their rotten fruit (1 John 3:8-10). And when the Antichrist will arise, he will not be against religion or God. "Anti" means "instead" not ,,contra" or ,,against". He, like Absalom, will be handsome and very kind, little by little stealing the hearts of the people by warm hugs & tickling their ears with flattering deception.

The Bible says that the majority of the people will go to hell (Matt 7:14) and many of them will even be those who think they are believers! When I read Matthew 7:22-23 I can only think of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement because that perfectly describes what is going on there. "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!".




I just think i`m sure all of us on some points will be wrong, even on here none of us can be 100% right. Does this mean a loving God will come down on us and punish so serverely for just miss-understanding?? with so many denominations of christianity if a large % of them wont go to heaven because they got it wrong and on top of them a larger % of the world (those who dont believe) will also not got to heaven, Heavens looking like a mighty small place! from this statment I can only come to the conclusion Jesus came to save the world but failed and the devil won or Jesus is the saviour of a few 1000 compaired to the 144 billion thats estmated to have lived! Its no wonder sometimes its so hard to spread the word when messages like this are spread. Does this not suggest we are condemed by works that went wrong? and if we did the right works we would have been ok? if so this means we got to heaven by way of works? Obviously I know its by faith alone but sometimes I think do people not read what they have jus written and think about what they have just said!

It all drives me crazy and when my understanding is still fairly small it can really push me to worry and stress, have I got it all wrong? will he punish me? the old testament can be quite harsh maybe he will???

urgh need a coffee!!!

Matthew 7:13-14 does not teach that most human beings are going to 'eternal torment in hell'.

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

if you study the original Greek you'll see the words for 'enter' and 'find it' and 'leads to ' are in the 'PRESENT TENSE' not the future tense...so please consider the original context..Jesus was looking around him at the people passing by and the people around Him and stating the simple fact that few of them were repenting, accepting Him, finding life in Him and thus receiving forgiveness and cleansing from their sins...SIN is very destructive so many of them who were rejecting Him were being 'destroyed' by their sins...this passage has nothing to do with 'eternal life in heaven' or 'eternal torment in hell'.

[darryl]

Sorry eveyone,

I guess the foundation to my worry is just the fact I dont understand enough on the bible yet. I do read daily so hopefully it will start to go in :Pray:

I was reading an article on something today but when I was reading the final thoughts it got me stressing again:

"Jesus warned us that in the end times there will come MANY false teachers. It will be a time of great spiritual deception to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. It would be difficult to deceive genuine Christians by the charismatic movement, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons. These deceptive teachings are more than obvious. But not so with the Pentecostal movement which has a godly appearance. Beware of the counterfeit, those who appear to be godly but deny Jesus by their rotten fruit (1 John 3:8-10). And when the Antichrist will arise, he will not be against religion or God. "Anti" means "instead" not ,,contra" or ,,against". He, like Absalom, will be handsome and very kind, little by little stealing the hearts of the people by warm hugs & tickling their ears with flattering deception.

The Bible says that the majority of the people will go to hell (Matt 7:14) and many of them will even be those who think they are believers! When I read Matthew 7:22-23 I can only think of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement because that perfectly describes what is going on there. "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!".




I just think i`m sure all of us on some points will be wrong, even on here none of us can be 100% right. Does this mean a loving God will come down on us and punish so serverely for just miss-understanding?? with so many denominations of christianity if a large % of them wont go to heaven because they got it wrong and on top of them a larger % of the world (those who dont believe) will also not got to heaven, Heavens looking like a mighty small place! from this statment I can only come to the conclusion Jesus came to save the world but failed and the devil won or Jesus is the saviour of a few 1000 compaired to the 144 billion thats estmated to have lived! Its no wonder sometimes its so hard to spread the word when messages like this are spread. Does this not suggest we are condemed by works that went wrong? and if we did the right works we would have been ok? if so this means we got to heaven by way of works? Obviously I know its by faith alone but sometimes I think do people not read what they have jus written and think about what they have just said!

It all drives me crazy and when my understanding is still fairly small it can really push me to worry and stress, have I got it all wrong? will he punish me? the old testament can be quite harsh maybe he will???

urgh need a coffee!!!

here's another interpretation of Matthew 7:13,14. "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be with go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (King James Version)

The entrance way into the fullness of the Life Jesus Christ desires for us to have is certainly strait and narrow. There is room for only one person to pass through and that is Jesus Christ Himself. No one apart from being crucified with Him an becoming one with Him will enter into this realm. Our pastors, elders, Popes cannot stand besides us. There is room for only one. Our traditions, creeds, "correct" doctrines cannot come with us. There is only One Word. There is room for only Him. Our prejudices, anger, bitterness, self-righteousness, self-pity etc., cannot come with us. There is only room for Love.

While millions of Christians think that their denomination is the way ...that is why they are it, they are greatly mistaken, and are on the road that leads to destruction, that is, they will suffer great loss. That is what that word translated "destruction" means. We will have to let go of our denominational titles to get in. We will have to let go of our self-righteousness which came from our theology, our traditions, our heritage, our "correct" keeping of His laws. All that will have to go. The list is endless of the things we will have to let go of which actually keeps us from experiencing the fullness of His Life. The unrepentant person will suffer great loss when facing The Door Who is the door. It is truly best to let go of these things now. Then we may enter into that "aionion zoên" right here on earth

[darryl]

Sorry eveyone,

I guess the foundation to my worry is just the fact I dont understand enough on the bible yet. I do read daily so hopefully it will start to go in :Pray:

I was reading an article on something today but when I was reading the final thoughts it got me stressing again:

"Jesus warned us that in the end times there will come MANY false teachers. It will be a time of great spiritual deception to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. It would be difficult to deceive genuine Christians by the charismatic movement, Jehovah witnesses, or Mormons. These deceptive teachings are more than obvious. But not so with the Pentecostal movement which has a godly appearance. Beware of the counterfeit, those who appear to be godly but deny Jesus by their rotten fruit (1 John 3:8-10). And when the Antichrist will arise, he will not be against religion or God. "Anti" means "instead" not ,,contra" or ,,against". He, like Absalom, will be handsome and very kind, little by little stealing the hearts of the people by warm hugs & tickling their ears with flattering deception.

The Bible says that the majority of the people will go to hell (Matt 7:14) and many of them will even be those who think they are believers! When I read Matthew 7:22-23 I can only think of the Pentecostal and charismatic movement because that perfectly describes what is going on there. "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!".




I just think i`m sure all of us on some points will be wrong, even on here none of us can be 100% right. Does this mean a loving God will come down on us and punish so serverely for just miss-understanding?? with so many denominations of christianity if a large % of them wont go to heaven because they got it wrong and on top of them a larger % of the world (those who dont believe) will also not got to heaven, Heavens looking like a mighty small place! from this statment I can only come to the conclusion Jesus came to save the world but failed and the devil won or Jesus is the saviour of a few 1000 compaired to the 144 billion thats estmated to have lived! Its no wonder sometimes its so hard to spread the word when messages like this are spread. Does this not suggest we are condemed by works that went wrong? and if we did the right works we would have been ok? if so this means we got to heaven by way of works? Obviously I know its by faith alone but sometimes I think do people not read what they have jus written and think about what they have just said!

It all drives me crazy and when my understanding is still fairly small it can really push me to worry and stress, have I got it all wrong? will he punish me? the old testament can be quite harsh maybe he will???

urgh need a coffee!!!

with 'difficult' passages like Matthew 7: 13, 14, one really needs to spend a lot of time praying about it, studying it (preferably in the original Greek) and thinking about it...

God often reveals deeper meaning, like gold nuggets or diamonds, in 'difficult' passages that one cannot see when one simply skims over it or takes it on face value, or just blindly accepts what 'eternal hellist' preachers say...

you have to see what the words mean in Greek (there are some great websites online which show the Greek words such as 'Biblehub') because many English translations have an 'eternal torment' bias and are faulty in how they translate certain crucial and key words ...

please, whatever you do, do not blindly accept the skewered interpretations of 'hellist' or ET preachers, teachers and theologians...they have an agenda which is to portray God as a being who pitilessly torments human beings forever without end...

once one realizes God's essence is LOVE ( yes some of His attributes are Holiness, judge, mercy, amongst others but his ESSENCE is Love according to 1 John 1:48 ) one is no longer bound by what the 'eternal hellists' say or preach..one becomes truly free to experience and share the beautiful Love of God.

[Truth seeker]

Hi Darryl,
:iagree:
firstly many thankyou`s for all the time you have spent replying to my topic. As many may now know I am just starting to see the light and by the help of you all here on the "tent"
there is a massive amount of great advice and proof from what you have written and I will be coming back to this post many times to re-read :dsunny: what I like about the people here is not only do you give the passage or scripture but also in context and also the original Hebrew or Greek which will be what I look to whenever I am not sure of the translated bible I am reading or the out of context Pastor I am listening too! I will look for a good online Greek/Hebrew - bible translator and use bible hub much more. You have helped me greatly, just a few nuggets that I will learn from but so much more also from previous posts too! 

"if you study the original Greek you'll see the words for 'enter' and 'find it' and 'leads to ' are in the 'PRESENT TENSE' not the future tense...so please consider the original context"

" they will suffer great loss. That is what that word translated "destruction" means"

" Jesus NEVER uses the Greek term for 'eternal torment' (aiodios timora). He uses 'AIONION KOLASIS' meaning 'age- during correction'".

[darryl]

Hi Darryl,
:iagree:
firstly many thankyou`s for all the time you have spent replying to my topic. As many may now know I am just starting to see the light and by the help of you all here on the "tent"
there is a massive amount of great advice and proof from what you have written and I will be coming back to this post many times to re-read :dsunny: what I like about the people here is not only do you give the passage or scripture but also in context and also the original Hebrew or Greek which will be what I look to whenever I am not sure of the translated bible I am reading or the out of context Pastor I am listening too! I will look for a good online Greek/Hebrew - bible translator and use bible hub much more. You have helped me greatly, just a few nuggets that I will learn from but so much more also from previous posts too! 

"if you study the original Greek you'll see the words for 'enter' and 'find it' and 'leads to ' are in the 'PRESENT TENSE' not the future tense...so please consider the original context"

" they will suffer great loss. That is what that word translated "destruction" means"

" Jesus NEVER uses the Greek term for 'eternal torment' (aiodios timora). He uses 'AIONION KOLASIS' meaning 'age- during correction'".

my pleasure, my brother (or sister, hehe !)...the journey toward understanding God's ways is a deep one...not easily found..I'm happy to share some of the things I've learnt since discovering UR..I too believed in 'eternal punishment' for many years..I believed there was a 'hardness' in God which allowed Him to turn His back on millions of millions of His own human beings he created, in hell...oh, how wrong I was !..but, I was brainwashed since the age of 9 years old when I heard my first hellfire church sermon which terrified me..which psychologically damaged me as a young child..in your journey of discovery of God's goodness in UR you will come across many perverse arguments from 'hellists' which seem convincing till you really look into it, study the Bible passages involved, pray and eventually you will   find their arguments are a crumbling facade..God bless you on your walk with Jesus..God bless us all !

[darryl]

Hi Darryl,
:iagree:
firstly many thankyou`s for all the time you have spent replying to my topic. As many may now know I am just starting to see the light and by the help of you all here on the "tent"
there is a massive amount of great advice and proof from what you have written and I will be coming back to this post many times to re-read :dsunny: what I like about the people here is not only do you give the passage or scripture but also in context and also the original Hebrew or Greek which will be what I look to whenever I am not sure of the translated bible I am reading or the out of context Pastor I am listening too! I will look for a good online Greek/Hebrew - bible translator and use bible hub much more. You have helped me greatly, just a few nuggets that I will learn from but so much more also from previous posts too! 

"if you study the original Greek you'll see the words for 'enter' and 'find it' and 'leads to ' are in the 'PRESENT TENSE' not the future tense...so please consider the original context"

" they will suffer great loss. That is what that word translated "destruction" means"

" Jesus NEVER uses the Greek term for 'eternal torment' (aiodios timora). He uses 'AIONION KOLASIS' meaning 'age- during correction'".

sorry, I spelled the Greek word for everlasting, 'aidios', wrong..its 'aidios' not 'aiodios'
from Stongs Concordance

126. aidios ►
Strong's Concordance
aidios: everlasting
Original Word: ἀΐδιος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aidios
Phonetic Spelling: (ah-id'-ee-os)
Short Definition: eternal
Definition: eternal, everlasting.

[GodIsLove]

Darryl--GREAT posts on this thread! Awesome  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[darryl]

 :dsunny: :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :gimmefive:

[marie glen]

For interlinear and Strong's numbers, I love this program which brother Tom turned me on to:
www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php  :banana: :banana:

And this online Hebrew, Greek concordance.. tho you sometimes have to scroll down to get to the meat and not just the (same old) translation of..
http://studybible.info/strongs/

(The ISA3 program, will supply the Strong's number, which can be copied n pasted by clicking on the #number, and can copy/paste the verse version in the right column, which I think comes set on the Concordant version which I think is even better than the Young's Literal version; by using right click twice; took me a little while to find that option:)

And this website - if not yet known, is awesome for not having to type out verses by hand, and also for finding a verse when ya can't quite remember exactly where it is..
www.biblegateway.com/passage/
www.biblegateway.com/keyword/
    :Peace2: :girlheart:

[Truth seeker]

For interlinear and Strong's numbers, I love this program which brother Tom turned me on to:
www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php  :banana: :banana:

And this online Hebrew, Greek concordance.. tho you sometimes have to scroll down to get to the meat and not just the (same old) translation of..
http://studybible.info/strongs/

(The ISA3 program, will supply the Strong's number, which can be copied n pasted by clicking on the #number, and can copy/paste the verse version in the right column, which I think comes set on the Concordant version which I think is even better than the Young's Literal version; by using right click twice; took me a little while to find that option:)

And this website - if not yet known, is awesome for not having to type out verses by hand, and also for finding a verse when ya can't quite remember exactly where it is..
www.biblegateway.com/passage/
www.biblegateway.com/keyword/
    :Peace2: :girlheart:

thank you so much, going to take a look now, im sure these will become invaluable :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:!

[marie glen]

the right column, which I think comes set on the Concordant version which I think is even better than the Young's Literal version; by using right click twice

Oops! that would be, "right click" on the right pane verse, choose "copy verse" highlight, then "edit" and click "copy" :mblush: :smile:

you're very welcome, I think they're awesome..