There have been many gracious comments requesting a thread to be started on this topic so that all can glean and add to the study of the tabernacle. I have not yet responded because I've been "waiting" on it to take form "in" me as well. There are no dimensional studies to my knowledge on this topic. There are studies on it . . .just not revelational in the sense of seeing the connection between their symbolizations of Christ and also "me". What's been shared on this subject this far is just sharing what I "see" rather than relaying what has been taught . .so much of what's been shared has come in fragments.
A comment was made that one found it curious that all do not automatically go to the tabernacle and learn of this spiritual pattern referred to in Hebrews 10 . . .and I couldn't agree more . .it's actually not the first time this statement has been made. I had it birth in me as well about 5 years ago . .but back then, I was just beginning my dimensional walk and much of what I learned about the tabernacle is what I could pull up off the net. And to be honest, there is still nothing wrong with that. This is one area where really understanding the details literally will take on a life of it's own. But for starters . . .Hebrews 9 . . .
Colossians 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Hebrews 8
4For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount
Hebrews 9
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us
Hebrews 10
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
It is clear that God uses patterns to reveal other things. If we miss the pattern, we will only have an incomplete message. And the thing about patterns is, the pattern is not the core of the message . .it's simply something that's used as a sign that "points" to the core of the message. So if I'm to say that the pattern isn't the substance . . . then we'd also have to agree that the text that documented the pattern is the same, it's a sign "pointing to" the substance, but it's not the substance itself. This is in no way intended to take away anything from the Word, it's simply trying to put it into perspective as to the "purpose" of the Word . . .which for me, is to direct us to our salvation in Christ. These patterns that the Scripture comprises of do that same thing, they lead me to Truth that liberates me from myself. To him that knows the truth the Truth will "set him free". Truth is not knowledge, it's a person.
If you want to understand Christ . .the blueprint is in the tabernacle. It was located in the center of Israel's camp because that's where one's heart is . . .God wanted to be Israel's heart. In the spirit, there is neither Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female . ..we are grafted "back" into the tree of life through our relationship with Christ.
Okay, introduction out of the way . . .keep in mind, just sharing what I see as I see it . . .so this may be just a compilation of fragments that assemble together for the purpose of Christ revealing to you more things than just what I see.
The tabernacle is made up of three major components. The outer court, the inner court and the holy of holies. The relevence? God is made up of three major components, Father, Son and Holy Ghost . . .The Scripture is made up of three major components Spiritual, Moral/corporate and natural/physical . . our body is made up of three major components, Spirit, soul, and flesh . .. these three overlay the three of the tabernacle. Our spirit is connected to the holy of holies, our mind/soul is connected to the holy place and our body is connected to the outer court.
To understand why we do and think the way we do, understanding the activities of each of these components of the tabernacle will go a long way in explaining the reasons. This is all orchestrated by God. We were made in his image . . .which could be then saying "we" are also shadows of Christ. He is the substance, we are the outline of that substance. As he moves, so moves his shadow. Things that are meant to be temporary, our religious minds will declare them to be permanent . .and that which should be permanent, our minds try to convince us they are only temporary. If we are in God's image, and we are the shadow casting across the land . .then we should "move" and "change" when Christ moves and changes . . .you can't nail a shadow down, even though many a religious men have tried.
The outer court consists of two major articles . . .the altar of sacrifice, and the laver. The purpose of this entire structure is to remove the sin from the people for their righteousness . . .they had to physically do what Christ fulfilled in every dimension, spiritual, moral and physical. The blood of the animal had to be removed and taken from the entire process. The reason being is because life is in the blood, and this process was not manifesting due to life, but law. So life was removed from all of it. The only part of the blood that was used was that which was taken into the holy of holies and sprinkled upon the mercy seat once a year.
I feel like I could really get bogged down in much of this . . .so I'll try to just stay with the highlights . . of what I see and what is pertinent.
There is only one gate . . .always facing east . . .the rising of the sun . . .this whole thing is not about death and burial, but about resurrection. The experience of light, the removal of darkness . . .facing the east, for me, always depicts the resurrecting of the Son.
In the same manner as we did with the spirit/soul/body overlay of the tabernacle, the same also fits perfectly with spiritual/moral-corporate/natural. The outer court is illuminated with the natural light of the sun. The altar of sacrifice depicts the introductory into Chirst . . .salvation experience. We are circumcized spiritually, we sacrifice our sin-governed lives at the altar of Christ . . .this altar is made of bronze . .bronze is connected to judgment.
Rather than a judgment of death to men, Christ took on death so that when we accept him, death passes over us and we willingly then sacrifice, bring death to our carnal flesh in accepting his physical death as us. It's still first dimension . .still natural realm, still infant stage of our walk in him. The tabernacle layout is the journey of man. It's a walk of life and each element in this tabernacle is a milestone that each of us experience. Salvation first, baptism next . . .but again, these are first dimension in the sense that they are introductory experiences . .they are the milk stage of our maturity in Christ. And they are very necessary . .we can not enter into the Holy of Holies without first experiencing each of these milestones in Christ. It's a procession of life "in" Christ. The pursuit and goal is to enter the heart . .the 3rd dimension, the Holy of holies . . . but it's a process.
The altar of sacrifice is where the priests are bloodied up. This thought occurred to me just the other day . . . my brothers worked in a slaughter house years ago . . . cattle mostly . . .and one afternoon, they invited me to check out there process. It's a violent process. . . but it was also pretty efficient. It was an assembly line of death. And the odd thing was . . .you could really get the sense that even though the cows waiting there couldn't see it actually happening, there was this "sense" of death in the air. It was everywhere, not to mention the odors that are connected to it.
I don't know what your idea is of actually what transpired in the tabernacle, but it's basically an assembly line of death. This didn't just happen a couple times in the day . . .that's what they evolved into during the days of Christ . . .just certain times of the day an animal sacrifice was being done . . .but in Moses' tabernacle . . .it was round the clock. In the center of this massive group of people, was this assembly line of death. smoke in the air all the time, billowing of frantic animals . . .I'm sure there was a break out here and there of some disorder and that's just dealing with the first step of this thing.
But that's really what's happening to our carnality when we come to Christ . . .it experiences an assembly line of death. And a transformation happens at this altar just as it does to the altar of incense . . . matter is transformed into another form. Just as we are renewed in our minds from flesh to spirit . . . the animal was transformed by this fire from flesh and bone . .so smoke. This first step may be the introduction into infancy, but that's not to say it's just as powerful and profoundly life-changing as the Holy of Holies itself.
Our God is a consuming fire . . . our carnality can not withstand his presence. And that "presence" comes into us at this altar . . .and the more mature we become in this walk, the more our nature is consumed.
This is already good. What I am hoping for is that these revelations concerning the tabernacle will change me. I need changing. I feel so carnal lately. To study the word and get cool insights is one thing and to mentally see new things is good but to actually be changed in my very essence is a different thing altogether.
cp
An assemble line of death. That's interesting Nathan. It gives me a good feeling to really think this is going on 'in me' as I write.
cp
:cloud9: Good stuff Nathan..... :thumbsup: I posted most of this I think before a long time back....., where I don't know. I'll try to add more as I am able.
:cloud9: Hebrews 10 tells us the pattern of spiritual things is the tabernacle pattern. The outer court was where basically anyone could be in the presence of the Lord, albeit from a distance. Women (souls), all Israel, and even strangers (today would be like Hindus, Muslims, ect.) as well as ANYONE who has not had the baptism of the Spirit, the outward anointing, including (and listed SOLELY based on their doctrinal beliefs that exclude the baptism of the Spirit ie. Pentecost, as do the first groups mentioned also), such as Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, ect.
They were and are, all in the same outer court realm. He has given ALL men a measure of faith to receive Him and this is that realm. He is in all, but all do not yet know it, or Him. This is why all received the same wages whether or not they had been there all day (more light) or one hour (less light). This is the realm of soulish fleshly works. This portion of the tabernacle had no covering over it, so if the people in that realm looked up into the heavenlies or at heavenly things, they saw only a LITERAL heavenly host, ie. sun, moon and stars. They are still governed over by the letter, the natural "host", still eating of the wrong tree. He concluded ALL under sin.
This is the realm of the inner anointing, the salvation of the Spirit, ie. the spirit returns to the One that sent it. This is Christ in you, ie. He subjected the same in hope, Christ in you, the hope of glory. This is the realm of the brazen altar, where the works of the flesh are dealt with thru the dying to self. It had a veil between it and the next realm also, which veil is "rent" by dying to self works. It is the water baptism realm, ie. being baptized into the likeness of His death. Reckon yourselves DEAD. This is the passover realm. If we partake of the eating of the Lamb, we pass from death into life.
:cloud9: The inner court realm is the realm of the priesthood. The priestly tribe that was chosen by God Himself, could get a little closer to the God that had created all. A peculiar (means chosen) people, a priestly nation, ie. He would that they were ALL priests. This is the realm of the golden candlestick, representative of the light we receive from the outward baptism of the Spirit, ie. being baptized INTO the Spirit which is Christ, He becomes our covering, and this is why the commandment came that women (the soul/flesh) must have a covering, so as not to be "naked" and ashamed. The Spirit of Christ, which IS the Holy Ghost, is that covering of the women (soul/flesh).
This is the glory, the life of the Spirit that begins to consume the corruption that has made us take on another glory/image. As we have born the image of the natural (outer court, Christ in you), so too we will bear the image of the spiritual (inner court, you in Christ). Just as women, strangers, and all Israel were not allowed to come into this court because they were not priests, so too does God make this distinction now, spiritually.
The priests were only allowed to wear linen to come into the inner court to serve God. Linen speaks of the righteousness that is by faith, the faith of the Spirit of Christ, not the measure of faith to receive Him, that is typified in the outer court realm of experience. The Spirit baptism is the beginning of "putting on" Christ, ie. He becomes our "linen garment". This is why it says that our righteousness (ie. without linen garment/Spirit of Christ covering us) is as filthy rags. That's the pattern and it is not subject to change as far as God is concerned.
This is the realm of the Spirit, and the works of the Spirit. The Holy Ghost does the works. This is the realm of Pentecost, and this is the second of 3 feasts that the Lord God commanded the children of Israel to partake of FOREVER. We were grafted into the olive tree, and as we have a spiritual covenant now, these feasts are fulfilled in us spiritually, but they did not end and they were not a suggestion, which is why those in the outer court realm I explained above have the option of ignoring the rest of the pattern, but they do so at a loss, as in those that go thru the fire suffer loss, but they are saved. He concluded all under sin, that thru His Spirit, He might have mercy upon all.
:cloud9: So, without going into the 3rd part of the Tabernacle in detail, the whole pattern looks like this......
These are just a FEW correlations between the courts and specific three part scriptures, the last time I did this I had around 30 for each of the courts; the Word (both OT and NT) is literally full of them because He can't do anything but express His nature......as above, so below.
OUTER COURT INNER COURT HOLY OF HOLIES
Jesus Christ Lord
faith hope charity
called justified glorified
His good will His acceptable will His perfect will
saved being saved shall be saved
milk bread + wine hidden manna (meat)
body soul spirit
female male neither male nor female
spirit salvation soul salvation body salvation (glorified body)
30 fold 60 fold 100 fold
babes young men mature sons
water baptism Spirit baptism fire baptism
letter of the Word Spiritual Word Risen Word
bud bloom fruit
wool linen coat of many colors/glory cloud
brass silver gold
waters below firmament firmament waters above firmament
Passover Pentecost Tabernacles
Christ in you You in Christ Lambkin on Mt.
death life life everlasting
In the beginning, The Word was with God, And the Word was God
was the Word (Emmanuel, God with us)
And Jesus (outer court/female) was the Word (inner court/male) made (one) flesh (Most Holy place). They are neither male nor female in heaven, not because they are neither one or the other, but because they are BOTH. The male (Spirit) has possessed His female (virgin soul). All flesh, therefore, is "female" to God initially (and therefore in the outer court realm, the court of the "women"), because His Spirit is the one that plants the Seed, ie. IS the Seed. The natural realm bears this witness, as always, as babies are all female until a certain point in their development within the womb. Blessings to all........
Quote from: claypot on February 28, 2009, 04:13:34 AM
This is already good. What I am hoping for is that these revelations concerning the tabernacle will change me. I need changing. I feel so carnal lately. To study the word and get cool insights is one thing and to mentally see new things is good but to actually be changed in my very essence is a different thing altogether. cp
:cloud9: A good friend of mine brought it to my attention, what an excellent sentiment and post this is. :thumbsup:
"He is within this holy tent; the tabernacle of God, burning with love for all mankind, and ready to comfort the afflicted."
The wind tore through the trees with an anguish that tears the heart, as the veil was torn!
peacemaker
:cloud9: I pulled this over from another thread because I thought it might help here too.
I intended to add some more when I could and I can see I need to explain some of what I posted. There is a macrocosm (world view) and there is a mircocosm (personal view). What I listed in the Tabernacle thread is both at the same time. Let me explain.
In the personal view, all of us obviously have an outer court/body of flesh/desires of the flesh, but we don't all live exclusively out of that realm. But at the same time, in the world view, a lot of people do, that don't yet have a personal relationship with Christ.
The defining factor for whether or not you are in the inner court realm, is whether or not you've been baptized in the HG (regardless of whether or not you speak in tongues). This is an anointing, and the things of the Tabernacle and PEOPLE (priests) were anointed because it meant they were SET APART for service; that's the purpose of anointing.
This is why the candlestick was in this realm because the HG does the works, and the parts of the candlestick reflect both the fruits of the Spirit, and the gifts (gifts that do works empowered by the Spirit) of the Spirit. Hope this helps....
:cloud9: Looks like Taffy heard you, cp.... :bigGrin:
Cp. . .that is really the first question we all should be asking ourselves . . ."Where am I?" Okay, I'm a tabernacle . .but what part of this tabernacle connects with me the most? Is it the initial salvation? Is it the crucified Christ? Do I find myself "needing" to constantly repenting everyday for my sins? Am I one of those that feels the need to respond to an altar call no matter how often one is given? Am I happy living my life in "coast" with Chirst? Totally content on the outskirts of all the ministarial activity? Do I have absolutely no interest whatsoever to be involved in any kind of ministry at all? "I don't feel comfortable witnessing because I don't really have any testimony that stands out as a "real" change." I pretty much lived most of my life in that one.
Those who answer "yes" to the majority of those questions will be one who is living in the outer court. And for me, it's not all that healthy of a place to "live" or "remain" in. It's the milk of the relationship . .as opposed to the meat of the matter. Nothing wrong with milk . ..can't eat cereal without it. But "living" on milk alone isn't the purpose of milk.
Paul talks about speaking as a child, thinking and acting as a child when he was a child . .but when he matured, he "put away" the childish things . . .time to have a garage sale in your thinking.
Still haven't been able to move away from this passage in Hebrews just yet . . .this is the Message version of what it says . . .
1-3So come on, let's leave the preschool fingerpainting exercises on Christ and get on with the grand work of art. Grow up in Christ. The basic foundational truths are in place: turning your back on "salvation by self-help" and turning in trust toward God; baptismal instructions; laying on of hands; resurrection of the dead; eternal judgment. God helping us, we'll stay true to all that. But there's so much more. Let's get on with it!
There's a whole other dimension in God for those who find themselves embracing the tangible things that manifest. Remember what it is that the serpent eats? Dust. Is this saying that snakes eat dirt for their diet? Absolutely not. It's saying that the serpent thrives on flesh . .and those living in flesh become the next meal. As long as I embrace the natural realm of things, I will be consumed by them. Worry is a big part of that . . .fear is another. We react to what we see rather than ignore what the natural is doing and call out the spiritual to manifest. We're empowered to release and to bind in the spirit through our INTIMATE relationship with the Father through the Son. But we don't exercise that which is given to us. So . . .let's leave behind the elemntary things that got us here and move into the more profitable things . . .
2nd dimension . . .the door into the temple.
:cloud9: Good post Nathan; and you reminded me to add the dust, sand and the stars, to my lists, LOL.....
Good stuff Nathan! What gives me hope is that even when I want to stop growing, God doesn't stop gardening! I will grow by God!
cp
Here's another thought that's running through my cranium......
Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.acts15.14
Oh this is so cool. God first made the pot marred. Seems like God needed soil for His pet project to grow!
God first made Adam the natural. He did this to cause germination of a royal seed. Out of the 'dirt' came the live plant. God built a new tabernacle out of the old. Oh glorious day!!!!!
Why is God doing this?
So every God anointed aspect of every person will be saved.
cp
There is such a great tapestry being created here, I'm going to continue with the main theme of the tabernacle, you guys just keep doing what you've been doing in your conversations of weaving in and out around this and we'll all glean from each other . . .Cardinal . . .I just love that list you posted . .that's just so cool!!!
Okay, putting behind us the first dimension, and looking inward toward the second . . .
This is actually where the church is established . .in the second dimension. It didn't establish itself there . . .it was predestined by God to be established there. For me, God's intention is to touch his people with the hands of his people. And that is the ministry of the church. It's not just a ministry "in" a church . .it's the ministry "of" the church. Ministry is not just teaching a class or being involved in a worship team. I've seen some people just have a wonderful knack at being hosts to their friends and family.
The Samaritan that was beat up on the highway and was "ministered" to was a great picture of how ministry really should be working . . .it's actually intended to work "outside" the building structure of the church rather than just in the confines of the walls of a building. There are those who have found a ministry on forums even. The purpose of ministry is to equip others to equip others . . .to equip others. Making disciples of one another is the process of equipping people with the appropriate tools to equip other people. Equip them for what? Anything . . .Everything . . .it all depends on the specific anointing God has given you personally. But it's all for the reproducing of Christ in us and others.
Everything is a progression to prepare us to be led into something else. The purpose of the outer court is to prepare you for the inner court . . the purpose for the inner court is to prepare you for the Holy of Holies . . .now get this .. . .in the same way . .the salvation we experience is to prepare us for the ministry to lead others into that salvation . .and that ministry we experience is to prepare us to enter into more maturity and intimacy in the realm of rest . . which is essentially the place where the previous ministries are no longer necessary. It's much like the space shuttle for me . . . in order to get it into the outer atmosphere, they attached temporary boosters to it . .but once it leaves our atmosphere, the boosters are no longer needed so they detach themselves and fall away.
The ministry realm is the boosters that assist us to enter into the holy of holies . .into the kingdom Jesus spent so much time trying to explain . .but once we ourselves "enter" into that realm the emphasis of ministry is no longer necessary as we enter into a realm of rest from which we no longer live according to ministry works . . .but simply "function" as gates . . . becoming portholes through which others can enter into the kingdom as well. But so many are embracing their boosters that they won't allow them to release and freely flow into the kingdom.
This also reminds me of this true story of this guy that owned a boat arena . . .not large boats . . .more like fishing boats and recreational boats . . .had pretty good sized motors on them, but not like ocean stuff . . .anyway, a guy that had just bought a fishing boat from him came back and complained that the boat wasn't performing well at all. He couldn't get it up to a plain even though the motor was more than capable to do so . . and it was really sluggish in the steering . .it felt like it was plowing more than anything. It was a first-time boat owner so it could be "anything" or just normal for boats . . .so the owner that sold the boat went out to the dock where the boat was . . .started the motor . .everything was running fine . . .put it in gear and slowly headed out to open water . . .everything still seemed fairly normal . . . it did steer okay and even though it wasn't cutting the water like a canoe, it did seem to move okay, but this was all at a no-wake speed.
So finally he opened it up and sure enough, the steering was very unresponsive and the boat wouldn't plain at all. So he took it back to the dock and as he went to check out the prop . . .it was then he realized the problem . . .the new owner of the boat still had the trailor attached. Trailors, like spaceshuttle boosters . .have their purpose, but once you reach your destination, there's a separation from trailor and boat. And for me, it's the same way spiritually . . .when my ministry has taken me to where God intended for it to take me in my spiritual walk . . .there comes a time where the ministry is to be detached so that I can effectively and freely experience the realm of the kingdom of rest.
So even though ministry is necessary . . .I believe for those who come into the maturity of their relationships, the ministry emphasis is no longer necessary as we enter into the realm of rest. But that's not to say minitry in and of itself is no longer necessary . . . there are hoards of other people that "need" to experience the same route that others have already taken them that brought them into the holy of holies . .so we can't say that it's bad or needs to be removed . . .we're just simply saying there's yet a whole other realm beyond the one of ministry.
I've really jumped over some stuff going into this . . .I'll post another post that is detailing more of what the holy place is in regards to ministry and why we're seeing it connected as such.
In a sense, understanding the symbolism of the tabernacle will also explain to you, just who it is you are . . so they kind of "are" connected. But I appreciate your sensitivity bro.
In the overlay of an actual body in the tabernacle, the altar of insence being the feet . . .the laver beign the side . . .in the holy place, there are the three articles that comprise of the ministry of the church. In the body, this is likened to the chest cavity for me in that this is where all the vital organs of essential life are protected within the membrane that separates the heart and lungs from the rest of the functioning organs. The activity to maintain life. The living, the breathing, the heart pumping the blood throughout the rest of the body. The lungs pump in the air, the heart pumps out the blood.
The activity of the priests are what keep the temple active in this realm of the temple. They have to harvest the olive, crush them to collect the oil, keep the wiks trimmed so the fire never stops burning so the bread is always being illuminated . .this is how the Scriptures work . . the Scripture is the bread, the fire in the candlestick is the illuminator . .the candlestick is Christ, the flames are the same as the seven stars in his "right" hand in Revelation.
Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches
The branch represents the church . . .the light in the bowl containing the flame . . .same as the stars . ..stars are illuminators . . .angels simply mean messengers . . .doesn't mean winged creatures flying around in the invisible realm. A wandering star is considered to be a false prophet, according to Jude . . .same as a cloud without water . . .giving the promise of something it can't deliver.
A star that wanders is one that has an ever changing message . . .do you have any idea how many times the "rapture" theory has been revised? Promises and predictions keep being "prophesied" only to turn out to be lies in the end . . .and the prophesy'er must justify why they got it wrong . .every turn of every century, there has been a huge increase and inflation of the rapture doctrine . . .they continue to push it further and further into the future so that their doctrine can live on and continue.
But in the temple . . .these stars are stationed, they are fixed in one place . .they have one purpose . . .to illuminate the bread. Jesus said "he" is the bread of life . . . the message of the illuminators should be that Christ is all in all. Nothing less, nothing more. But instead, because they see they have been God "sent" they begin claiming God "said" and there message turns from Christ to man's current affairs . . .when the purpose for the fire in the candle stick is not to accomodate the current state of the priests . . .but it was to illuminate the bread.
May the message be clear, powerful and strong . . .you are called by God to "be" his witness. You are equipped by the Spirit to carry that call out. We're not to identify ourselves according to ourselves in what we feel, see, or do, but we're to identify ourselves according to what's been proclaimed over us . .and that is that we are kings and we are priests. And as priests, our message is to illuminate Christ. The lampstand illuminates the 12 loaves of bread . . .12 is the number of government . . .God's government is not religion, but righteousness and relationship.
The candlestick was created out of one solid chunk of Gold, it was pounded and pounded until it began to take shape and become a magnifisent work of hand-crafted art that formed a lampstand, a holder of the flames . . .as is also portrayed in Revelation when Jesus was seed "in" the candlestick.
Again, this is where the ministry of the church is. For the fire to burn, for the bread to be fresh, for the wine to be full, for the insence to burn . . .this all required labor and planning and constant ministering of the priests. For those who have any kind of ministry in any given body, be it in or outside of the church building . . ."this" is where that ministry is represented and established "in" us. This is where the desire to reach out to another in any form . .manifests in us. We become ministers to each other as some are illuminators of the bread, others are the ones that collect the ingredients for the bread to be made . .and others are there to handle the hot items and conversations as the bread bakes in the furnace of others. Everyone has their role of ministry predestined in their dna before they're even born.
Your ministry is that which manifests out of you with no plan or thinking on your part . .it just comes easy to you. Some people can speak in public . .others shudder to even think of that . . .yet they have a great talent with children . . .on and on. The reason God calls you to do a specific ministry is because he's already equipped you for it. It may not be as polished as you think others are . . .but he may not want "polished" to be part of your personal ministry . .. he has other people who fit that bill. When we just live "in" the ministry we're equipped to do, that's all that is requested of us.
So, the illumination of the bread then leads to the third piece and that is the altar of incense . . .
So Nathan, why is this tabernacle so mystical? Why is it so complicated? I suppose it's not complicated to one more attuned to mystical or spiritual vibes. There sure are treasures hidden in all this.
This tabernacle sure leaves the physical in the dust doesn't it? I mean I believe there was and probably will be a physcial tabernacle but the details of it all are clearly meant to be spiritual revealtions to us. It's like a message from home.
cp
Basically, I see it as the inner workings that makes us be us . .. we all have this activity within us . . .we all have a comfort zone . . . you know . . .that "space" that we all have that is invisible until a person comes up and breaches that space??? That's part of your outer court . . . Your natural appearance is your outer court.
I want to put this out there while it's in front of me . . .many struggle over the "mysterious" or "secretive" aspect to the truths lying beneath the surface . . . they'll even get defensive and tell you that there is nothing that is a mystery . . .yet Paul states it clearly that there are many things about God that are a mystery to man . . .the mystery of Christ in you . . .the hope of glory . . .In Peter's writings . .he comments about Paul's writings being hard to understand . .but really . .they're not, they're just coming from a level of intimacy in relationship . .and that level can not be measured by man either . . . when you watch kids interact with each other . . .there's an age they reach where they aren't quite so friendly with each other as they once were when they were younger . .they actually become quite rude and crude against other kids that are "different".
Spiritually, the same thing happens . . initially, everyone is friendly to every body . . .until their friendship gets a little age on it, then the measuring begins . .first in secret, then to their face. It's just the process of maturity that we all go through. So I wouldn't get to out of joint with the crowd that tend to sneer at the idea that you see something in Scripture they're not seeing. But here's the key to all of it . . .it goes back to the foundation of the temple . . . who builds it in the first place?
Did Christ give us the blue print and tell us that in our intellect we will be able to figure it out on our own? I think that was one of the most telling things that manifested when Jesus asked his disciples "Who do men say that I am?" Everyone had "their own" opinion of what they "reasoned" within themselves as to who Jesus was . . .and none of them were accurate. But Peter . .of all people . . this rugged, short fused, narrow-minded, stubborn, gruff man Peter got a kiss from the King and "saw" who Jesus was . .not because of his great ability to reason . . .but because God just simply uncovered the truth and revealed it to him.
The act of "revelation" or as I like to call it . . ."revelating" is the rock that Christ is building on. Christ is building his church upon the avenue that God uses to illuminate his Son to us . . .upon the act of revelation . . .uncovering . . .all we have to do is get ourselves in the realm where truth is illuminating . .. I just love that passage. Funny thing, at the end of that piece when the seed was planted and they were moving on to other things . . Scripture says that Jesus instructed them to keep this between themselves. Don't go out and tell people that revelation from God is the key to seeing who Christ really is. I believe there were two reasons for that.
One . . .you can revelate until you're blue in the face and if those you are with are embracing the things that are tangible to them . . they're just not going to see any of it. I have told my church time and again . .be careful who you share this with . .discern the fields that you enter . . .if they're ripe, then break out your sickle, if they are green, then hold your tongue . .there is a season for the planting and a season for the harvest. Can't plant a seed if their ground is froze solid . .and you can't harvest their field if they are still very green in their growth.
The second reason why I think Jesus told them to keep this to themselves is because their is an order to this . . .it doesn't come by knowing "about" God . . .it comes by experiencing him "in" you. We all have to experience the experience. Jesus was aligning these disciples of his in such a way that they would get to the point to where they themselves could hear from God directly . . .which is what the Peter experience is all about. But there was a process that they had to be led through . . .it's the same with everyone . . .it's the same with the tabernacle . .the priest could not just waltz into the holy of hoiies whenever "he" chose . .there was a series of experiences he first had to accomplish . ..salvation is simply the first step . . .and just because one is in ministry does not qualify one to experience personal revelation . . . it isn't until we enter into the "realm" of rest that we can see and accomplish the work of Christ from a position of rest . . .You may have met my wife . . .but only "I" am married to her.
Well . .there are a lot of people who may know "about" God . . .study up on where he's been . .what he's said . . .how he acted . . .but only a few are actually "married" to him. Those that are married are those that "know" him intimately . .and through that relationship, he let's the veil down so we can see his face . .his true identity. And at that point, we no longer argue about what we think we know, we simply share what we "see". Let the spiritual paragnas tear the message apart as they will, but there's a veil in our life that we pass through where our weapons of warfare truly do get transformed into plowshares. The tabernacle is simply a reflection of that process.
The things hidden are not hidden "from" us . .they are hidden "for" us. It is a special, unexplainable thing to be in the chamber room of Christ and see his nature in places others can't. Nobody is better than anybody else here . . . it's got nothing to do with measuring our knowledge and seeing who can spit the furthest . . .the disciples even argued over who would sit where . .they were still living in the old covenant while walking with the New.
One last thing . .in Revelation, John is instructed "not" to measure the outer court as it is going to be given over to the Gentiles . . .a Gentile is considered an outsider, not an insider. The outer appearance of a man is often measured and judged by the outsiders. .. but we're to judge no man . . . and that's really all that's saying there . . .stop measuring the outer court of another.
Jeeze, I feel like Mickiel on this thread . . ."and I want to get into that . . ." :laughing7:
The holy place can also be connected to the workings of our minds . . .it's all about the activity of man interchanging with the will of God. The fires can never go out . .the worm never dies . . . there's A LOT of labor involved into the ministry of the tabernacle. We can . . .I'm not so sure how much this will connect with the forum members beigns that most seemingly are not attending or are actively engaged in a church . . .and to you I want to emphasize . . .just because you're not in a church membership . .does not mean you are not in ministry. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that organized church really has little to do with the ministry of the saints. Having said that, I also want to state again that the organized church is what it is, with it's short-sightedness and stubborn boundaries and such . . . it's still a necessary part of our maturity in Christ. Maybe it's better simulated with boot camp . . . there is much complaining with how things are done, but God seems to be able to use the process to effectively mature Christ in us. You don't know your true self until you're exposed to pressure . .and the church can definitely come into play in that role.
This working mind . . . there are so many levels that the tabernacle can be relevant . . .you could actually step up even closer to this and see that the whole operation of the tabernacle could be the mind itself. The way we think . . .the mind being tied very closely to tangible matters . . . our thinking reacts very quickly to our feeling. Interestingly, just as there is a five-fold ministry . .there are also the physical 5 senses in our body . .everything seen is connected to everything unseen. I'll leave that one simmer in you for a bit.
You guys ever utilize the website "Earth Google"? It's astounding how you can literally drop in on someones back yard from the air. The first picture you see is the globe . . .as you zoom in, you're still seeing the same globe, but the closer you get, the more detailed your picture becomes. It has many advantages to that . . but the disadvantage is . .the closer you get to your target, the less you can see of the bigger picture. And that's the mystery of the spirit . .another mystery . . .when you're in the spirit, it magnifies the details of God's nature . .while at the same time, you still can see the over all picture . . .kind of like seeing the end from the beginning . . . they say eagles have the same ability with their eyes as well.
At any rate. . .there is much to be digested when dealing with the tabernacle. There is so much symbolism there. It is God establishing law to reveal the work that Christ completed, he's revealing Christ's nature, he's revealing man's nature . . .it's all in there on different levels. And they were right, this really does sorta require it's own thread because it can entail so many different levels of understanding.
Nathan, you got to write a book on all this stuff. I'm off to read it again. Thanks.
cp
Enjoying the Thread guys, Thanks , good stuff
:icon_flower:
ah . . .there are some actually reading this then . . . good enough . . .
You can take each separate article and spend hours and hours on what each one is to represent and it's effects on the other elements. Each "dimension" in the ark is also consistent with another pattern of God. When you read up on that statue in Daniel that Nebuchadnezzar saw, there was an order and a depletion of value to the elements used in the idol . . .the head was gold, the arms and chest were silver, the thighs were bronze and the feet were iron and clay . . .it was revealed that each of these different elements were connected to different nations overtaking Israel. And each time there was a change of possession, the purity of the elements diminished.
The tabernacle has the same pattern . .. showing us the importance of each dimension . . .in the outer court, the altar of sacrifice was made with bronze or brass . .as was the laver . . .it's the same element that Goliath was dressed in. It's patterned after judgment. The wages of sin is death . . .death was the judgment. The laver was also overlaid with women's looking glasses . . .or, what we'd call their mirrors.
Here's one for you . . .the guy who God hand-picked to fashion these articles for the temple, his name was Bezaleel. Just out of curiousity, I looked up the meaning . . .get this . . .it means "shadow".
Can you believe it!!! God chose Shadow to fashion the shadow of Christ in the making of the tabernacle. Man . . .you can't make this stuff up if ya tried!!
But he took the mirrors of the women . . .again, when reading patterns, and "woman" comes up . .that is always connected to your soul . . to your mind . . .these women offered their mirrors . .items used to reflect the "image" of your face . .your identity . . .the laver, the basin that was used to "wash" to "cleanse" the priest . . .it's what washes "you". Again, it's connected to the lake of fire and they both serve the exact same purpose. God's cleansing fire is used to purge and to cleanse . .the laver was used to wash the blood . . . the result of the sin offerings . .washed, purified and cleansed the priests . . .made of "womens" image reflecters . .are you seeing the connections of how this particular article in the tabernacle is connected with the renewing of your . . .MIND???
God doesn't require "you" to do this . . .it's the order he's established for ALL who come through the east gate . . .which is the entrance to the temple . . .by passing through Judah, the tribe that sets at the east gate . . Judah means praise remember . . .to even enter into the tabernacle, you must come "in" praise as you offer up your sacrifice (of praise) to the Lord as he releases you from the bonds of sin . . .sin removed, mind must then be purified through the baptism of water, spirit . .and fire . . .Christ is the ultimate sacrifice . . . he is also the laver. The word washes . .he is the Word. He purges and cleanses the imagry and idolatry from your mind as it's renewed here in the baptism of spirit . . .which equips you . .gives you "power" to BE his witness . . .and the baptism of fire is a much deeper and sometimes harsher cleansing . . . we got a lot a ugly in us that affects us on many levels . . .and God has a baptism for each one.
don't stop!...how it all connects,makes you want to sing!
thanks for sharing nathan :icon_king:
I'm going to still stay focused on the tabernacle . . .but I'd like to take a bit of a different approach on this post and relay what can be seen from the book of Revelation when seeing the tabernacle . . .when John received this revelation . . .he was on the island "Patmos" which means "place of my killing". which essentially is the east gate of the tabernacle where the altar of sacrifice is located. Death must always first occur before life can manifest. Jesus didn't come just to die, he came to bring resurrection life, but the order of God is that for life to come, death must first occur.
Before I enter the temple, there is a death in me that must first transpire. Just as the priests removed the life from the literal beasts that were offered to them by the people, so I to must also offer up the beast within me to be sacrificed that I may advance into the kingdom of life and light. Revelation also makes it clear the mark of this beast is simply the mark of man . . .carnality. My nature must be put to death . . .John the Baptist put it another way . . "I must decrease that he may increase" It all starts with a death. So it's no wonder that John received this revelation of life at the place of his killing . . .
Revelation 1
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
That's the text . . .I want to try to pull some stuff up here and hopefully others reading this will jump in and revelate what they've been shown also. I don't want to be a one-man show here . .hint, hint . ..
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Thet day of the Lord is a study in and of itself. But the book of Revelation is really not as unique from the other books as many people may think. It's written in the same manner as anything else Jesus spoke of . . .it's in parabolic form. Signs and symbols. John is in the spirit . . .and it's on the Lord's day . . .like everything else in Revelation . . .it's not depicting a literal day . .. meaning it was not on the Sabbath, or Sunday . .that really has no bearing whatsoever . .but when he refers to being on the Lord's day . . .it was a sign to those who understood what the day of the Lord was all about. It's not a measure of time, but it's the realm of Christ.
And here's the ironic piece . . .first understand nothing is coincidence, everything is revealed with purpose, on purpose. So when John hears a voice "behind" him . .it's drawing a picture on purpose. Before John could "see" he had to repent . . .he had to turn around. Even in the Spirit, even being at the place of his killing . . .he couldn't see until he turned. The trumpet speaks of a new proclamation. The year of Jubilee . . .Jubilee means long blast . . .it comes every 50 years. When one experiences Jubilee, in their culture that God established, if you lost the farm somewhere in the 49 years since the last Jubilee . . .on the 50th, no matter who had it for what reason . .everything you lost is returned to you, no questions asked. Israel was never to sell their land. It was theirs for all time. Debts were erased, families that had to go into slavery to pay debts were returned . .and land was returned. What this trumpet means to me . .beings it's the first of many blasts to come . .is that this is a proclamation that what John was about to see was the year of Jubilee had come.
11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea
For me, there are a couple things here . .one, if you had a map and marked out each of these churches . .it would form a circle . . .a wedding ring given to a bride . .we are the bride . .these 7 churches . .because it was not six, or eight, but seven . . then we want to be sure to grasp the meaning of the number . . . and seven is the number of completion and fulfillment. It's documented in Revelation more times than all of the other books put together times ten (fig of speech there). God is revealing his son, this is a Peter experience, the Rock that Christ built his church upon . . this is the documented form of that rock. This is a "revelation". It is not taught by flesh and blood, though many are trying . . .but it only comes by way of "unveiling" by the Father through our relationship with the Son.
12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle
Now were beginning to get into the reason why this is impressed in my heart to even go here . . .The revelation of Jesus Christ began "in" the temple . .this is "the" temple. That's why the blueprint was given first . .so when we came to the original mold and not a replica, we'd be able to identify with it on a more personal level. After John turned, notice again how he made it very clear that turning around was so important. If we don't bend, if we don't flex, if we don't turn, we'll never be able to see. The first thing John sees is the candle sticks . . .they are not in the holy of holies . .they are not in the third dimension, but they are in the second. This is why I stated that the church is established in the second dimension and not the third. I'll explain "why" later.
But Christ "is" the candlestick. Note again the number seven . . .this is a revelation of Christ . . .it's no longer something you see through darkly . .but it's full, it's complete, it's whole. The candlestick in Moses tabernacle was solid gold . .the other articles in the holy place were wood overlaid with gold. This is a picture of man "in" God. But when it's solid gold . . .it's all God. Remember the order we mentioned earlier about the diminishing quality of the elements things were made from? The more you advance toward the holy of holies, the more pure the articles are. It was brass in the outer court . .the boundary of the tabernacle was outlined by a 6 foot high canvas and the posts supporting the temple were inserted into footings made of silver . . .which is connected to redemption. But in the Holy of holies . .it was all gold. Because the candlestick was not wood overlaid with gold, but solid gold, that depicted it represents Christ . . .and here in Revelation it's clearly seen that Christ is the one holding the churches . .as the bread is illuminated "through" us . . . Just how true is our light that illuminates the bread?
:cloud9: Excellent Nate, keep pouring...... :thumbsup:
Nathan, you're killing me......and that's a good thing!!!!
I want to input more and I will but I fear what I will offer will be dross compared to the good stuff you are putting forth but don't worry, I will wax forth anyway!
The complexity of the tabernacle is so much like the complexity of a person. There are many facets to a person as there are in Scripture. I find this fascinating.
Revelation 1
10I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
In the Spirit on the Lords day........I'm alive, I've been born!
Heard behind me, write in a book.......I start thinking, storing things in my brain!
Send to 7 churches.......From my brain to the rest of my body!
Saw 7 gold candlesticks......Survival mode kicks in and to survive God must be center!
I saw life and it is amazing, clothed like nothing else. Nature, animals, light, flowers, insects, air, wind, fire and so on. Nothing is clothed like these!
Got to run.....
cp
For me . .the purpose of sharing what God has revealed is not so that you think I'm holier, it's not to become a revelation to Nathan "about" Christ . . . nor is it to be something that gives me, or you goose bumps and make you gasp in excitement . . .many of those things do happen . .but the purpose . .again, from my POV the purpose of me sharing what I see is to ignite, inspire . .to encourage others to enter into this wonderful house that God built and Christ has prepared so that where he is, we may also be. The more you comment, the more we all can benefit. Yeah, I started the thread . .but only to initiate the mighty Mo . . . to get the ball rolling in revelating with the family. It's in all of us . . .all we need to do is exercise what's there.
That's why I love the idea of revelating . .no matter how much you see, God always reveals even more through the eyes of others as they receive your piece to the puzzle and add theirs and it just keeps growing and growing . . .another thing about the kingdom of vision . . . everything is connected to everything else .. . you can "start" in Genesis . . .but you'll seldom finish there . .in fact, it never really finishes. In my pastoral schooling, they actually teach you how to preach . . . they approach a sermon like a cook does a recipe. There's an opening remark that overviews where you're going to be going . . .the text from which you are going to dissect . . .add in a personal experience . .not because that's the way God intended, but because you'll come across much more genuine to the congregation . . .it has a beginning, middle and an end . . . with an altar call of course for all the sinners going straight to hell . . .
But when revelating . . .it's a continual thing. It's like you going through your day . .the night comes, you go to sleep, get up the next morning and "continue" going through "another" day . . .you never have to re-evaluate the actities you did on your previous day before you're able to do any activities "this" day. Revelating is not a new recipe of delivering a sermon . .or a manufactured order of thinking . . . it's simply enjoying the fact that your personality is directed and ordained by God. It was in your dna for you to have your unique quirks. I tend to get loud when I get lathered up . .and I cry a lot . . that stupid book "the Shack" . . .I was a driveling idiot when reading that thing.
I'm also transparent . . .when something new comes in, I'm terrible at holding on to it for any length of time. When I did my first "nontraditional" teaching on Revelation, I transcribed a 34 tape series done by Randall Worley . . . he said that when he received his personal experience with Revelation . . .he was a Pastor and he held on to it for 10 years before sharing any of it with the church . . . I can't imagine holding on to anything more than 10 days let alone ten years. I hate doing anything in the church that must be behind closed doors .. . we're a family and as such, there should be no reason for keeping secrets from each other. Granted, there are probably a few exceptions to the rule, but for me . .very few.
Okay, I'm done rambling . . .next post . .back in this Revelation passage . . .
14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Head and hair . . .mind and thoughts . . .pure . .white . . .as wool . . a sheeps covering. Interesting that his eyes, tongue and feet were of fire. The word of life ignites us . . .the eyes don't see death, only life, just his very gaze purifies the hearts of those he loves. Okay . . .feet like fine brass . . .that's the same material the altar of sacrifice is made of . . .as if burned in a furnace . . what does the heat of a furnace do to metal? Does it not bring up the dross to the surface and purify the metal? The purpose of the altar of sacrifice is the same as the laver . .the same as the lake of fire . .it's to purify the people IN PREPARATION for them to enter into the tabernacle . . .to enter into God's house . . .to enter into GOD.
16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
There are the seven stars . .they are in his "right" hand. The seven stars are the seven messengers (messenger is the definition for the word angel). Seven . .the number of completion . .stars . . .again, the messengers . .and with God . . .it's not the messenger that gets the attention, but the message within them. Their identity is "in" the "message". The stars are prophets . . God's mouth piece . . .to the seven churches . .. this is speaking to those God has established and appointed to lead the churches . .the Pastors . .the evangelists, the prophets, apostles, the teachers . . the stars established. A false prophet is a wandering star remember. (Jude) And they are not in his "hand" but they are in his "right" hand . . . everything is said with purpose on purpose . . .my right hand is my authority . ..the stars of these churches are the authority of Christ . .kind of tough to swallow this when we look around and see all of the wife beaters at the pulpits in our generation today.
Now just for the sake of comparison, I'm going to throw in verse 8 before you read verse 19. You tell me what it is that John is writing . . .is it the past, present and future? Or could it be something all together differnt?
8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty
19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
This to me appears to be simply an instruction given to John not to document events for the natural realm, but instead, the unveiling of Christ in the spiritual realm.
20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches
Okay, the over all point that I really wanted to make with all of this is look at the first place that God took John in this unveiling . . .he took him into the tabernacle . . .and he is showing him where the church is . . .someone asked "what am I" Well, if this were a mall . . .this opening piece is a layout of that mall and on this map, there's a little red arrow pointing at the candlesticks in the temple and under the arrow would be the caption "YOU ARE HERE".
Why is the tabernacle so important? Because it is the framework of Christ. It holds the symbols of the redemption of Chirst in us. It reveals where we are in him. It shows us the end from our beginning. There is another passage that shows the completion of this activity in the holy place that I'll throw out next.
Oh . . .all right . . .I'll go ahead and say it . . ..
And I want to get into that . . .
:cloud9: I can't imagine holding onto stuff for a great length of time, either. Every time He gives me something new, suddenly it's all I can see in the Word. I knew two pastors once, who when confronted by myself and a friend about there being no rapture, they both admitted to knowing that revelation, FOR 20 YEARS. We were both stunned at this confession of theirs, and one replied as to why he had kept silent, "You'll never build a big church that way."
I think this is where if you don't give out, and become stagnant, revelation comes less and less, because (from His point of view) what is the purpose if it's not going to be shared with the body to edify? Got to put those talents to good use, else He will take them and give them to the one who already is using them. Blessings....
Somebody had to have sat down and contemplated what in the world he or she was to come up with this kind of poetry! It all fits. A human being. No wonder the Bible is a best seller. If you own a car it is good to have a manual for it even if you never read it or rarely read it. It's the same with the Bible. Most don't read it but because it's about us and how we work they just got to have one just in case. Sure the Bible is about God too but again you got to see it from different angles and you got to admit that one angle is the people angle.
And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
The light which lights every man that comes into the world is in control always. Even though I use my God given powers to rebel and become as dead, this Power within gives me courage and life to continue on.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty
19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Sounds like I'm talking to Zeek!
I can see someone sitting on a rock in the middle of a creek thinking and thinking and thinking. As things come to mind he logs them away. These things are things this person has used to live life and is using and will use.
cp
Great feedback! If I found out my Pastor was holding back . . .just to fill a church . . . don't that just make ya want to punch em??? It's true though . . .when I made the decision to leave the traditional walk for this one . . .I lost a third of the church . .and have been told by those nursing me into the new that I would also leave the church . . . not by my own choice, but by the denomination . .it's not a matter of "if" but "when". I'm trying not to focus on that piece so much . . . some days are better than others, but so far, whenever I stir things up and make the waves . . .God seems to put up a standard around me from them . . .I'm learning that there are several pastors that are very hungry for more . . .they just don't know "what" it is they're hungry for more of.
Since those had left, others have come in and embraced even more where we are. A pastor that has reached out to me when things got pretty rough, he . . . kind of a long story really . . . we have monthly meetings in our district . .consists of about 9 or 10 other pastors and their wives . . .and this year they decided to follow an agenda created by the pastors . .what is it they wanted to get out of these monthly meetings . . .turns out worship was one of the first things . . .so this pastor that reached out to me, asked me to lead the worship . .I was a little nervous about that beings that it was only 6 months ago that I moved out of the parsonage bracing myself to get kicked out.
But we did it . .no planning which was also a little nerve wracking . . .I don't sing their songs anymore as we sing the ones we write ourselves. But I still had the old stuff around so I brought it out. It turned out to be a great time of worship . . . it all went pretty smooth and things flowed really well. At the end . .. the pastor that invited me to lead announced to everyone there that they were going to begin having a Saturday night service where it was just going to be nothing but free worship . . .and he wants me to lead it . . . crazy huh. What grieves me though is, his body has the talent to lead worship, but they don't really worship, they basically just sing songs. And they can't just step out and dance or clap or just sing out words of joy as they come to us . . .he said his body wouldn't be comfortable doing that kind of thing, even though he himself is so hungry for it . .and loves to free worship . . .so to keep the sheep in their comfort zone . . .he refrains from to much emotion in the worship time.
I told him later . . . I'd sang one of my own songs with them, had an overhead for it . . .my church has their favorites of one's we've written and there was one they really wanted me to sing at the other church and it was a pretty safe song so I did . .but I told the pastor later, if this worship goes to where he wants it to go . . .and I'm pretty sure it will . . .then I will be breaking out the more dimensional songs that may appear to be more controversial . . .they say stuff like . . .Heavenly Father, you're my lake of fire . . .and . . . a day is as a thousand years, a thousand years is as a day, before there was Adam, before there was Eve, a pattern of rest was laid . . .
After our get together there, I did and do appreciate even more the place where God has brought my church family . . .such a great freedom and closeness to the Lord as he inspires worship to rise from us.
OK. . .note to self . . .next post on the finished tabernacle . . .
I think a lot of people are just not comfortable with the jumping and clapping and shouting for joy in large groups. Not to say that I don't do that sort of stuff all the time when by myself (if you were a fly on the wall) but I don't like being required to do it on command. I do it when the Spirit moves me, which can be any time of the day or night, as he renews my mind, restores my soul.
The High Priests didn't do that sort of thing in the temple.
But, King David did, and those following him, as both priest and king, before the tent containing the recovered ark of the covenant. So,yes, I could see it in that context.
:cloud9: I was like that at first too, because I thought quiet and somber equated with reverence (and there is a time for that too). Then I read that we are to raise up holy hands and praise the Lord, and that God sent the "praisers" out before a battle. Now, if I feel the Spirit moving me, I don't care who's around.
My second date with my now husband, was a double date with a friend of mine who was equally "unfettered". We had gone to a movie and on a country road on the way home, a song came on that the anointing just flowed over me and I couldn't stay still. I told her to stop the car, and we got out and started praising and dancing before the Lord. Her boyfriend, told my stunned date, "You'll get used to it."
He had a big smile on his face eventually, and I said to him, "I don't need alcohol or drugs to have a great time, I've got God!" He said, "I can see that."
He never really did get used to it, LOL.......Blessings
:cloud9: Nathan, can you explain what you mean about the 7 stars and the 5 fold. That one paragraph is not clear to me. Thanks, Card
There are the seven stars . .they are in his "right" hand. The seven stars are the seven messengers (messenger is the definition for the word angel). Seven . .the number of completion . .stars . . .again, the messengers . .and with God . . .it's not the messenger that gets the attention, but the message within them. Their identity is "in" the "message". The stars are prophets . . God's mouth piece . . .to the seven churches . .. this is speaking to those God has established and appointed to lead the churches . .the Pastors . .the evangelists, the prophets, apostles, the teachers . . the stars established. A false prophet is a wandering star remember. (Jude) And they are not in his "hand" but they are in his "right" hand . . . everything is said with purpose on purpose . . .my right hand is my authority . ..the stars of these churches are the authority of Christ . .kind of tough to swallow this when we look around and see all of the wife beaters at the pulpits in our generation today.
This is going to wander off track just a bit, but I'll bring it back.
Jude
12 When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord's love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you.[a] They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots. 13 They are like wild waves of the sea, churning up the foam of their shameful deeds. They are like wandering stars, doomed forever to blackest darkness.
14 Enoch, who lived in the seventh generation after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said, "Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones
Stars are established in the heavens to illuminate light in the darkness of night . . . darkness of night for me is as Paul speaks of "seeing things darkly" it's someone without vision, without understanding and God establishes stars through which one can navigate murky waters. The seven stars of Revelation for me are not about seven people or seven ministries . . .but seven is just as important as stars . . .those two componants together for me speak of completion . .the message in Paul's day was incomplete . .. he said it himself. But this revelation of Christ was complete . . .and it's to the "whole" church . .seven stars, complete revelation . .seven churches . . .complete body. Paul's message was always connected to resurrection . . . John's revelation is always connected to completion, fulness and wholeness . . . Actually, this dovetails into where I wanted to originally go.
But before I open that door, let me remind you that these things being revealed to John and John isn't writing them out in a simplistic form but in symbols and signs . . .so as we read them, we need to remind ourselves . .numbers don't necessarily carry numeric value in this book . . .colors, gems, even elements of thunder and lightning . . .rather than seeing it as literal lightning, literal sevens, literal angels . . .they all carry other meanings . . .It's God's way of giving his bride revelation without giving it to those who have no desire for intimacy with him. God doesn't take revealing the nature of his Son lightly . .he's not going to put it out there for just anyone and everyone. This is a precious thing he's doing . . . so what he's done is, he's put it out there for all to read, but only the bondservant will understand. Ever ask yourself why it was that when Peter, James and John saw Jesus in his glorified state that Jesus plainly instructed them NOT to tell another person . .not even the other nine??? Or when Peter received his first revelation and Jesus changed his name and told him about the rock, gave them the keys . . .and then instructed them NOT to share this with anyone else?
God cherishes the truth of his heart. If you want to see it . .he's more than willing to reveal it . .but there's an order to it . .and relationship . .true, intimate relationship is the highest of priorities for these things to be revealed . . .you have to be hungry for it and interested in it. If it's just another rock to add to your rock collection . .then he's not going to reveal it. You can't "reason" it out of Scripture or anyone else . . . It's not a natural reasoning of Jesus Christ . .but it's a revelation . . . it's like God over rides the laboring mind and just "shows" himself, his nature, his most precious valuables which is Christ himself.
Okay . . .I've only got a few minutes of my day left and I really want to get this out before going home. The tabernacle of Moses was established in a literal man's heart . . .it began with Abraham as far as the promise of a nation goes . . .and Moses was the manifestor of the governing of God's desire for this stubborn people. We always connect Moses to the law . . and rightly so . . .but the law isn't the sevens . . .it's only a part of them . . .it's like only half of the reality. Actually, it's not half, it's 1/3. The heart of God has the law . . .and the spirit . . .and the manna. Those are dimensions within dimensions of God. The law would be first dimension . . .it is connected to physically sacrificing the beasts. Not to mention physically being water baptized.
The budding rod of Aaron is the second dimension in that the spirit baptism is the eqipping of power to "be" God's witness and gifts of the spirit manifest within this baptism . . .which equip and empower the "ministry" of the church . . thus, the second dimension of the tabernacle. Very works oriented. People professing demonic cleansings and laying on of hands, calling out evil spirits, prophecying over others . .signs and wonders . . .follow any revival and you'll always see the gifts very vividly. . .but it's still all second dimension . .it's still focused on the ministry of men as they go into warfare in the name of the Lord.
It was the priests that had to keep the fire burning . . .to keep the wicks trimmed, to keep the oil full, to keep the oil supplied . .to keep the bread fresh, to keep the wine full . .to make the wine . . to gather the specific ingredients for the incense . . .to keep "that" fire constantly burning also . . .to take the temple down . . .to move the temple, to set it back up . . .to sacrifice, to give instruction, bring order . . .on and on and on . . .24/7 . . .all of this is in front of the last veil where God resides and remember . .all of this ministry activity "is" established by Christ as we see in Revelation where he's the candlestick and he's "holding" the sevens of the stars . ..the messeage to the church in his hand. . .in his right hand . . .they're not emptyhanded themselves . . .they're held in his authority . . now as to whether they are exercising that authority or not is another matter all together, but they are "equipped" with the authority of the Son as he has this complete . .this message of sevens he holds in his right hand. The stars are the fires of the church . . .their prophetic message . .not one about future events, but one that is the mouthpiece of God.
Jeeze I'm out of time . . .but let me post this passage of Scripture . . it is the end of the laboring temple and the establishing of a completely different realm . . . one that still accomplishes what the other temples accomplished (Moses and Solomon's) but something is glaringly missing . . .
A Lampstand and Two Olive Trees
1 Then the angel who had been talking with me returned and woke me, as though I had been asleep. 2 "What do you see now?" he asked.
I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl of oil on top of it. Around the bowl are seven lamps, each having seven spouts with wicks. 3 And I see two olive trees, one on each side of the bowl." 4 Then I asked the angel, "What are these, my lord? What do they mean?"
5 "Don't you know?" the angel asked.
"No, my lord," I replied.
6 Then he said to me, "This is what the Lord says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies. 7 Nothing, not even a mighty mountain, will stand in Zerubbabel's way; it will become a level plain before him! And when Zerubbabel sets the final stone of the Temple in place, the people will shout: 'May God bless it! May God bless it!'[a]"
8 Then another message came to me from the Lord: 9 "Zerubbabel is the one who laid the foundation of this Temple, and he will complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of Heaven's Armies has sent me. 10 Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand."
(The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)
11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"
13 "Don't you know?" he asked.
"No, my lord," I replied.
14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."
This is my all time favorite Scripture . .it's where I strive to live in all the time . . .can't elaborate on it now . . .time to go home . . .sigh . . .
Quote from: Nathan on March 04, 2009, 03:03:56 AM
(The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)
11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"
13 "Don't you know?" he asked.
"No, my lord," I replied.
14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."[/color]
I'm going to guess here. Seven lamps that are eyes of the Lord that search the world seem to be implying that there are forces within people like conscience and reasoning powers that keep a watch on us, guide us.
2 heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord could be heart and mind of people.
Hmmmmm. Just my :2c:
Quote from: claypot on March 04, 2009, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: Nathan on March 04, 2009, 03:03:56 AM
(The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)
11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?"
13 "Don't you know?" he asked.
"No, my lord," I replied.
14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."[/color]
I'm going to guess here. Seven lamps that are eyes of the Lord that search the world seem to be implying that there are forces within people like conscience and reasoning powers that keep a watch on us, guide us.
2 heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord could be heart and mind of people.
Hmmmmm. Just my :2c:
Scripture interprets Scripture . . .Jesus said he is the vine . ."we" are the branches. See, just like the shadow tabernacle, we are just as much a part of the substance as we are of the shadow. Just as the candlestick also shows . . .there are 6 branches, three on the left, three on the right, and the center shaft is Christ who makes up the 7th flame . . .he is our completion. Through us flows the golden (purely divine) oil (annointing) that keeps the fire burning . . .fire of life and refinement. For me, this is where the flatliners (two-dimensional beleivers . ..meaning everything is either right or wrong) seem to veer off the track a bit . . .the lake of fire itself is to never be quenched . .but the refining process does have a completion to it.
I would even say one's time in the lake of fire can be just as eternal as the lake itself . . .but when you see the fire is God, then you can also see there are different stages of maturity and purpose we experience in God . . .all the while, we never actually leave or get out of him . . .he is the lake of fire . . .and only those who's names are not in the book of life are cast into it . . .for the rest of us . . .for me anyway . . .I became a part of it the instant I accepted Christ into my heart.
Two witnesses . . . same response . .let Scripture interpret itself . . .They are in Revelation . . .
Revelation 11:3
"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
The 1260 days . . .that is 3 1/2 years . .the same exact time that Jesus' ministry lasted. Now check out the next verse in this . . .
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
See how it connects them up again? Question . . .who do you know in Scripture that they have fire in their message as they speak? And the words they spoke silenced those who came against them? This is all spiritual . . .Pharisees tried time and again to remove Jesus from the scene, but Jesus mysteriously always slipped through them. The killing isn't a physical killing . .the only killing Jesus did was carnal. The hevens being shut up from rain during their days . . .
Duet. 32
My doctrine shall drop
as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
No other prophets were bringing truth to the earth during the ministry of Christ . . . the curses released . . .Matthew 23 has the 7 woes given by Jesus . . .there was also the fig tree he cursed . . understand that the fig tree was more than just a simple bush . .it represented a nation . . .it's all there, and it all fits.
Revelation 11
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Jesus made it very clear that until his time came, he would continue going about his father's business. But when the hour had come, he went willingly. The reason he went, was because his testimony was complete. This beast . . .who was it that killed Jesus? It wasn't the ungodly . .those that never worshiped God or ever acknowledged God . .it was not the Gentiles . .but the Jews . . .the religious Jews, it was the beast within the bottomless pits of their carnal minds that killed him. And verse 8 also ties the two places together . . spiritually Sodom and Egypt . . .Sodom is remembered for it's perversion of intimacies . . .Egypt is the home of idolatry . . .that's what kept creeping into Israel . . .but he ties this into Jerusalem. It continues to say "they" but I'll explain what I see with that in a sec . . .
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Now for me, keeping in mind that the pattern of the spirit is always opposite from natural reasoning . . .Jesus did not remain on earth for another 3 1/2 years ... but his ministry to the Jews did . . the day of his baptism was the beginning of this week . . .3 1/2 days of it was with him walking and testifying of the transition that was about to take place. At that point, he was killed . .he was the ultimate sacrifice . .and it stopped. For the next 3 1/2 days, he may have left in body, but things were not fully completed in spirit. This is the last week of the 70 weeks of Daniel's prophecy. What brought this to a completion is at the maryrdom of Stephen . .it was at that point the focus went from Jew to Gentile . . .That was when Paul came into the picture . .and he made it very clear that his ministry was not to the Jews, but to the Gentiles.
Where I originally was going to go with this . . .if you can, put things in reverse and we'll come into this from another perspective. And that is in the overlaying of the 3 1/2 days . . . if it doesn't fit for you . .that's absolutely fine . .I'm not trying to imply this is the only way to see it . . .I'm giving you a couple different angles while observing the same event.
Jesus represented death before being driven into the wilderness . . .the Jordan river . .it means "descending" . . .it's connected to death. And when he was baptized in it, when he went under . . .the natural phase of his life came to a close . .he died to it . ..his mother, his Father . .brothers and sisters . .he essentially left home . . .he died to his past . . .death occurred. . .and for the next 3 1/2 years, the Jesus the world saw was a spiritual ministry manifesting . . . but his old nature was now dead . .so in a sense, they observed him being dead . . .for 3 1/2 days . .for the length of his ministry, but then God called him up . . .it rose out of the tomb . .he resurrected from that death in every dimension, and left here in a cloud . . .
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
This post is attempting to reflect what I see in dealing with the two witnesses . . .they are the two trees and we are the branches of those trees. But what of the second tree? If Christ is the first tree, there is only one other who is worthy to be presented in the same realm and level as Christ and that is the Holy Ghost. I believe that is why at the Jordan, the Holy Spirit manifested as "joining" to Christ as his ministry began . . .the two became the witnesses of testimony of the will of God to man.
Quote from: Nathan on March 04, 2009, 03:54:42 PM
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
This post is attempting to reflect what I see in dealing with the two witnesses . . .they are the two trees and we are the branches of those trees. But what of the second tree? If Christ is the first tree, there is only one other who is worthy to be presented in the same realm and level as Christ and that is the Holy Ghost. I believe that is why at the Jordan, the Holy Spirit manifested as "joining" to Christ as his ministry began . . .the two became the witnesses of testimony of the will of God to man.
So many dimensions to all of this. Tis good.
These 2 prophets that tormented them that dwelt on the earth. So graphic. So revealing. I know my 'earthiness' has been and is tormented by something working in me. I am much more sensitive to something higher. I think this is because of the presence of at least 2 witnesses.
I like how you bring in the Holy Spirit Nathan. I find it works for me to think of the Father, Son and HS as working together in all to become all in all. I like to think of the Father desiring all of us and the Son picking up on that desire and calling all that the Father is thinking of into existence and the HS jumping in to give all the Son is speaking forth into life, animation.
I know, weird but remember the diamond. Many facets of the same thing. God cannot be properly taken in via only one gate. He is way too dimensional and multi faceted. The temple and tabernacle prove this.
cp
1 Then the angel who had been talking with me returned and woke me, as though I had been asleep. 2 "What do you see now?" he asked. I answered, "I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl of oil on top of it. Around the bowl are seven lamps, each having seven spouts with wicks. 3 And I see two olive trees, one on each side of the bowl." 4 Then I asked the angel, "What are these, my lord? What do they mean?" 5 "Don't you know?" the angel asked. "No, my lord," I replied.
6 Then he said to me, "This is what the Lord says to Zerubbabel: It is not by force nor by strength, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of Heaven's Armies. 7 Nothing, not even a mighty mountain, will stand in Zerubbabel's way; it will become a level plain before him! And when Zerubbabel sets the final stone of the Temple in place, the people will shout: 'May God bless it! May God bless it!'[a]" 8 Then another message came to me from the Lord: 9 "Zerubbabel is the one who laid the foundation of this Temple, and he will complete it. Then you will know that the Lord of Heaven's Armies has sent me. 10 Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand."
(The seven lamps represent the eyes of the Lord that search all around the world.)
11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on each side of the lampstand, 12 and what are the two olive branches that pour out golden oil through two gold tubes?" 13 "Don't you know?" he asked. "No, my lord," I replied. 14 Then he said to me, "They represent the two heavenly beings who stand in the court of the Lord of all the earth."
This passage is Zechariah 4 . . .it's my most favorite passage in all of Scripture. The reason being is because this is the church in sevens. Remember we mentioned earlier that each part of the tabernacle is to prepare you for the next . . the first dimension prepares you for the second . .the second prepares you for the third. Salvation prepares you for baptism, baptism prepares you for ministry, ministry matures you for Rest. Read this first part of the chapter again . . .
I highligted it in purple (color of royalty) You have a centerpiece . . .the candlestick supporting the bowl containing the oil the seven flames draw from. you have two trees on either side of this . .two trees . .sound familiar? it began in Genesis . . went to Golgaltha, surfaced again in Revelation . .two trees with a river flowing in between. The two trees are the two witnesses . . .they testify of the manna . . .they illuminate the bread. Jesus testified of the Father, the Spirit testifies of Christ. There are two trees on either side of this lampstand supporting the oil and the fire . . .and out of the two trees are golden tubes . .they are the conduit through which the annointing flows from the trees into the bowl feeding the fire.
Now compare this with Moses tabernacle . .it had a lampstand, it had fire, it had oil . .it illuminated . . . but what's missing? What does Moses' tabernacle have that Zechariah's lampstand doesn't? I'll tell you . . .it doesn't have men of flesh manifesting ministries of labor. The oil flows right from the trees without any assistance of men . .but men are definitely still very much a part of this activity, just as before . .but they've taken on a different persona. They are the branches . .they are the golden tubes . .they are the conduit through which the anointing oil flows. But no labor is required . . .they simply "function" in the arena they were created to be in.
"That's" why this passage is so special to me. "That's" why I tend to get preachy on too much emphasis with ministry-based churches . . .works based thinking . .. natural reasoning . .the laboring mind . .all of that . . . "this" is the crux of where I'm coming from. I beleive that there is still a place and a purpose for those things. I beleive there is a reason why the church is established in a ministry based arena . .but it's not according to the Old Covenant tabernacle . .it's not according the the shadow . .but it's according to the original image . .the authentic body of God through which the shadow was cast.
We still accomplish the same things as before . .but now, it's from a position of rest rather than labor. "This" is why you see me commenting about the progression "from" spiritual warfare "to" spiritual rest. Our weapons are transformed into plowshares. The warring stops . .the "reasoning" stops and the planting begins. We simply share with one another what God is revealing to us, rather than debating with one another whether one is right or wrong.
Incidently, Zerubbabel literally means "descended of Babylon". That puts a bit of a different light on things also.
One last thing to this post. I found it most enlightening to see the answer given when Zechariah inquired of the meaning of what he saw . . the answer was . . .not by might, not by power . .but by his spirit . . . .this is the same picture Jesus drew when Peter saw who Jesus was . ."Flesh and blood did not teach you this . . ." It's what I've been saying all along . . .and these passages are why I say it . . . to see Christ in everything is to have Christ revealed "in" you. And that is not something that comes through study, reasoning, or discipline . .but simply in waiting upon the Lord until it's "revealed" in you . . . and from there, you're life will reflect his nature in everything you read, see, and do.
Nathan, with all this talk of flowing without the aid of people, just a flowing of oil and all, am I hearing you saying that all life flows. The good, bad and the ugly. People tend to get stuck in thinking they have to do good and if they do evil they will disrupt Gods plans and their own salvaion somehow. Are people getting stuck even in thinking in moral terms?
I'm thinking of a verse.....
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11
Lives lived are like the ocean waves. They just keep coming and coming and doing their thing, some ferocious and destructive while others are peaceful as a feather floating in a gently wind. People are like that. Look at all the self help books and all the ministries geared towards easing peoples burdens. Evil is still in major abundance.
Ya know, I listened to a Dr. Dobson show (a Christian phsychologist) and in his introduction he said how horrible the attack is on the family. Then I listened to one of his first shows, 20 or so years ago, and he was saying the exact same thing. I thought how interesting it was that after 20 some years of trying to fix family problems things have actually gotten worse!
I'm asking Nathan if what you are seeing in these teachings is the concept that life flows. If you lean towards worshipping God and being good you will do so and if you lean towards being one nasty so and so you will be.
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11
cp
I did a funeral last summer and the family of the deceased played a Johnny Cash song that had that verse in it . . .it's always been one of those that never made much sense to me . . .and here, while I'm reading your question on it . .this is what I can see with it now . . .
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be....rev22.11
The one thing the church has been really good at is dressing people up. When our outside activity becomes our focus, we are actually not "being" ourselves, but we're playing a role of an image we think is godly. You ever get so mad at someone or something that you had thought language that is not language you, yourself actually speak? Or, better yet, you ever just let your hair down when your alone . . .ever feel like much of your church life was putting on a front? Everybody does it. You don't really know a person in church until you start hanging around them at home or work . .away from the church setting.
And even then it can be kept in check until pressure comes . . .temperatures raise, stress grows . . .buttons get pushed . . .those times are when things hidden in us will come out. We're not what we think we are . . .often times we've gotten so good and being someone we're "expected" to be that we don't even recognize who we really are.
This passage you mention is really telling me . . .if you are unjust inside, you are unjust outside, if you are filthy inside, you are filthy outside . . .but if you are righteous inside . .you are righteous outside. What you do on the outside is not an accurate assessment of who you are inside. Because your outside can be controlled by your own power.
But in the light of truth . . .what you are on the inside, can not be hidden by what you personally try to control on the outside . .and it is there where judgment comes. Again . . .for me . .judgment is not for the believer, but for the unbeliever. If I put my faith in the finished works of Christ . . .why then would I still be judged for that which Christ has already been accredited for?
I have a few minutes left here . .got kind of steered away from the tabernacle a bit . . .would like to steer it back there for at least one more post . .and it's really the most important . .it's dealing with the holy of holies. This is where God resides . . .the presence of the Father literally filled this room. This room becomes his realm. Even there's no account of it actually happening, the high priest would have to tie a rope to his foot incase he entered in the holy of holies and was unclean . . .he would be immediately killed . .the rope was so the other priests could drag him back out without having to enter into the holy of holies themselves. I would liken this with communion in an unworthy manner.
God did kill two of Aaron's sons as they filled their sensers with a "strange" fire. Which is simply a fire initiated by man rather than God. God started this fire in the temple by way of lightining consuming the sacrifice at the onset. Even though they'd tear the whole thing down in order to relocate, they still kept the fire burning the entire time . . .kind of like running with the Olympic torch.
Up to this point, there were 5 articles in the tabernacle that were ministered to . . . the altar of sacrifice, the introduction into the temple . . .the laver . . .the baptism in preparation for ministry . . .the candlestick . . .which illuminates light . .the table of shewbread . .which consists of 12 loaves . . .representing God's established government engaging with the 12 tribes of Israel and also Christ as he is the bread of life . .this is his government being established in the temple of worship. And the fifth is the altar of incense . . .praise and worship and prayers of the saints.
When I first became the pastor of our church . . I had this wooden box, about the size of a shoe box . .and I had the congregation jot their needs down and I would go over on Saturday nights, go through each one and pray individually . . .when I was done, I'd anoint them with oil and light them on fire . .it was never really a big fire . .I'd just burn them one at a time in the church . . .I used a metal bowl and didn't give much thought to it . .one night I went through the normal thing, but I thought I wanted to do this right . . .so I took the bowl and sat it on the floor in front of the altar . . .did my thing, said the prayers, burne dthe papers . ..but when I was done and went to put stuff away . . .the bowl melted the backing of the carpet and was glued to the floor . . .I managed to finally tear it off . .but it left a big black charred spot right in the open . . that was my version of the altar of incense . . .
I'm not going to be able to finish this . . .my day here is done . . .probably a bit much to absorb all of this in one sitting anyway . . .this stuff takes time to digest before it becomes a part of our nature and we become a part of it . . .but when it happens . . my, oh my . . .how I love to feast on this stuff.
(I wrote this a while back, though I don't know if I posted it elsewhere on tentmaker.)
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I grew up in a church that called itself "Full Gospel." They taught what could be called two salvation experiences: 1.) "born-again," or, vivification of spirit and 2.) "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which over time refers to the guiding, teaching and forming of our consciousness, emotions and will. This is a progressive change of the soul by the work of the Holy Spirit, or, rousing of the soul. What I didn't then know was that there's a third dimension, a third salvation: 3.) "resurrection," or, raising of the body. Paul spoke of it as a race he was striving to win.
My idea of resurrection had been an acceptance of Jesus' historical resurrection and a belief in some future change for myself and even all humanity. This was not something I viewed as able to be affected by anything I could do. It took time and growth in knowledge of Scripture to understand we're racing against death. Will we mature enough, that is reach enough "finishedness" to not be taken out by the last enemy? If God is no respecter of persons, and we realize (even if they don't possess it like Jesus does) Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah entered into something of this full victory, then there is before each one of us an open door that no man can shut.
This 3rd dimension is definitely what the following Pauline references (ASV) from Phillipians 3 are about: "If by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead..." (v.3) "I press on toward the goal unto the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus..." (v.14) "For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself." (v.19-21) Resurrection followed by ascension is actually the at the finish of the race we are in. We've already entered something of the end because he who is the beginning and the end has entered us. He is the resurrection and the life. He has joined us here from his place in ascension. His increasing presence in us will bring about this change and manifest to the world with us until we rule with him for the thousands (though contested, "Millennium" is actually plural in Greek) of years.
The three Feasts (God entering into us, Christ in us) are 1.) Passover = new birth; 2.) Pentecost = manifestations of teaching rain for soul change; 3.) Tabernacles = transfiguration of habitation.
The three successive dimensions of The Tabernacle/Temple (our entrance into God, we in Christ) are: 1.) the outer court = through a veil, not measured, where the crowd is, in "natural" light, concerned with judgment and cleansing; 2.) the holy place = another lifting of a veil (paradigm change,) only by appointment of God to the priesthood, the light is from scripture (the lampstand has 66 parts) and the anointing in the Church (those united with the word hid in their hearts which is what God anoints, the oil that must be refreshed is burning, there's activity and most of what's there is made by man, concerned with prayer (fresh bread of faces--we are one loaf) and altar of incense; 3.) the holy of holies = another veil removed (Isaiah 25:6-9) veil removed is death destroyed,)1000 sq cubits (Millennium,) only once on day of atonement during feast of tabernacles the High priest (Jesus first born head of entire body--feet last born) enter in, the only light is from the Shekinah presence resting on the throne of mercy ruling over all. Changed by union with the Word Who is the Image and Glory of God, His throne must be establish in you for the glory to rest upon.
Look up the "third day" in Scripture. ("...on the third day I shall be glorified..." Consider the many threefold things; eg., "you have not many 'fathers'" (deriv., "starter"), Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac (lit., "laughter," "laugh causer" -- "in Isaac your seed shall be called") and Jacob (who has the name/nature change) unfold the Spirits progressive work in bringing forth mature nurturers, the Fatherhood realm.
The women are churches, or, the soul conceiving, or, covenants (Ga 4:21-31) if husband law dies she is free to marry grace (Rm 7:2-6) but even knowing that no learning more and trying harder which is works of law, even knowing there is no disciplined path of anything that can bring the voice of God into us (paraphrase of Ga 2:16) Orpah (30 fold) only goes as far as the borders of her natural birth land, her natural impulses; Naomi (60 fold, Pentecost not enough) says bitterly, " the hand of the Lord has gone out against me...I am too old;" Ruth for love goes all the way and lies at His feet in the middle of the night and says,"Cover me." "...not to be uncovered, but clothed upon; for this mortal must put on the immortal!"
Then I really like the mind to rule (what is kingdom of God mentality): (30 fold, born again:) King Saul, anointed flesh; (60 fold, gifts of Spirit:) King David (translated means "beloved,") another house (not the first man) defeats the enemies of the Lord, flesh subdued; (100 fold, tabernacle, body transfigured, resurrection:) King Solomon (peace, welfare) brings in the flesh (embodiment) glorified, his realm is marked by wisdom.
Without going anywhere else I'm striving and expecting to come into complete victory, even over death, walking with Jesus so closely all the time that I cross over, I change rather than sleep. This is what Jesus has me looking to him for. Ah, intimacy with God...
your brother, James Rohde
:cloud9: Amen, thank You, Father........ :thumbsup:
I've had this king David thought rattling around in my head lately as well. David's desire was to build the house of God . . . he didn't want God to remain in the old tent . . . but he so badly wanted to honor God by building a new place for him . . .and he wasn' allowed . . .Moses wanted to take the people across the river of death . . .the veil . . .but he wasn't allowed . . .in both of these situations, I believe the spiritual picture that lies beneath is the fact that both David and Moses were 2nd dimension . . .just as the church is. The second dimensions primary focus is on works . . .ministry . . .man laboring for God. They are very much in that "spiritual warfare" mentality.
But for David, that is what kept him from building the temple . . .God didn't want his house to be built by a man of war. And if David, a man after God's own heart, could not build the temple, what makes anyone think the church can build it? They are people of warfare, no different than David. As for Moses, his entire life was one who prepares. The first forty years he was raised in Egypt, to prepare for leading a nation out . . .the second forty years he was in the wilderness, to prepare him to find that leader within himself . .and the last forty years was the actual fulfillment of all the preparation of the first two sets of forty. But there was no crossing of the Jordan for him, he is the manifestor of the law . . .and just as warfare doesn't lead you into Rest . . .neither does the law. They are both for the maturity of the saints . .they are the preparers, but they themselves can't enter into the realm of Rest. But . . .their offspring can . . Their Solomons can.
Solomon was the third generation of kings. Think about this . . .Saul was the first king, but he was removed and David replaced him . . .Saul is the outer court experience But David is the temple and Solomon is the Holy of Holies "in" the temple . . .he came from David's loins . . .they are one building, but there are the two generations . . .holy place and holy of holies.
Being the third generation of kings . . .Solomons reign was beyond imagination in wealth, peace and prosparity. Just as the holy of holies is spiritually . . . With Moses . . .he was second generation as well . . .Pharoah was first generation and just as Saul was removed from the lineage of kings, Pharoah also was removed and never had any connections with God's chosen nation either. Moses stepped in, as did David . . .and Moses assembled all of the elements for deliverence, but never actually led the people out of the wilderness. In the same way, David assembled all of the materials needed to build the temple, but never actually had a part in the actual building of it.
Joshua steps in and all the work was complete . . .all he had to do was lead them into the promised land. Solomon stepped in and all the work was complete, all he had to do was assemble what was already there. The third dimension of God is where we are called to enter into as our final place of "Rest". In this realm the work is complete, the warfare is at rest, the weapons are changed into plowshares . . . why would people "not" want to pursue this realm? Why would they choose to remain in the warfare?
I think I just got the message for our church this coming Sunday . . . this is pretty cool stuff. For me anyway.
:cloud9: Another good one :thumbsup:. I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.
The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
:cloud9: Another good one :thumbsup:. I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.
The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
2Cr 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then
baptized for the dead?
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
:cloud9: Another good one :thumbsup:. I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.
The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
I really don't want to contradict what you feel God has shown you on this, but my reasons for connecting David with war comes from the book of 1 Kings 5 . . .he was reknown for his ability to win battles which much blood being shed . .yes, God directed many of them and he was with him in them, but that is also for me, the same as those who feel led to labor in the holy place . . .God calls them there to do his work and perhaps even keeps them there because he knows their heart . .they aren't willing to enter into rest . . .so they remain as laborers . . .David was a man of war . . . and God did bless him greatly . . .thinking about it in your terms . . .isn't it so much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building? And if God was telling David that he's not worthy to build a building because of this sin with this man, who was more than just a soldier in David's army, but that's another sermon . . .but if David is not worthy to build a physical temple . .how would he then be worthy to be "in" the lineage of Jesus?
3"You know that David my father was unable to build a house for the name of the LORD his God
because of the wars which surrounded him, until the LORD put them under the soles of his feet
:cloud9: My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually :winkgrin:. Blessings....
Quote from: Zeek on March 05, 2009, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 04:57:04 PM
:cloud9: Another good one :thumbsup:. I'd only like to add that the Lord showed me that David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.
The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
2Cr 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.
1Cr 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
:cloud9: Zeek, I'm sorry, but your comment went right over my head this morning..... :dontknow:
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 05:21:16 PM
:cloud9: My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually :winkgrin:. Blessings....
I understand . . . And I don't . . .yeah, sorry about that . . . your #2 . . . are you saying that because my flesh continually wars with my spirit that I can not build the temple of God?
If you are . .then I totally agree . .the temple being built is not ours to build . . .Just as Jesus told David that David would not build a house for him, but that He (Christ) would build a house for David, I believe it's the exact same thing for us . . .we are/were a people of warfare . .and you can't build a temple of rest by initiating warfare. For me, the warfare has it's place in the process of freeing and maturing the saints . .but the pursuit shouldn't be in reenforcing the armies with more weapons . .but the pursuit should be once the battle has been won, the weapons need to be transformed into plowshares in our lives. We may get recruited in God's army for a season . .but I don't see the warfare as something that is to be a permenant part of our life . .it is as you said . . I can't enter into rest when there is constant battling going on with in me that "I'm" trying to fight . .
Anyone have any understanding on the symbolism of a footstool?
Quote from: Nathan on March 05, 2009, 05:14:26 PM
thinking about it in your terms . . .isn't it so much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building? And if God was telling David that he's not worthy to build a building because of this sin with this man, who was more than just a soldier in David's army, but that's another sermon . . .but if David is not worthy to build a physical temple . .how would he then be worthy to be "in" the lineage of Jesus?
:cloud9: I replied the first time, Nathan, apparently before you modified your post and added the above.....
Yes it is much more of an honor to have the Messiah come through your lineage than to build a building.
Let's rephrase that; yes it is much more of an honor to build a spiritual house, than it is a natural one.
David's fleshly efforts weren't worthy, any more than ours are, but when he was anointed at the direction of the Lord, he received a new heart, ie. David has a heart after the Lord. And like all men (mankind) in the inner court realm which David represents, there is a battle between the flesh and the Spirit. David chose in that one instant, to allow the flesh to win out, and he paid for it dearly as the union he desired only produced death.
And then there's the matter of God visiting the sin of the father upon his other son, Absalom who rebelled against the King to overthrow him. Everywhere David looked the Lord had placed a mirror. Blessings...
Quote from: Nathan on March 05, 2009, 05:31:30 PM
Anyone have any understanding on the symbolism of a footstool?
:cloud9: I don't know if it's what you're referring to, but He has shown me something about a footstool......
Quote from: Nathan on March 05, 2009, 05:31:30 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 05:21:16 PM
:cloud9: My reason is, 1) the Lord showed it to me, and 2) the flesh WARS against the Spirit continually :winkgrin:. Blessings....
I understand . . . And I don't . . .yeah, sorry about that . . . your #2 . . . are you saying that because my flesh continually wars with my spirit that I can not build the temple of God?
:cloud9: Actually, what I was referring to there was the war that made David unable to build the temple for God. We looked at it and thought it was the natural literal wars, but what I was saying is that God showed me it was blood of a different type, and a different sort of war, that disqualified him. Blessings....
It's not connected to our previous conversation . . .it's just something I just came across when I was trying to find that passage I quoted in Kings . . .but I found this other passage mentioning a footstool and in the footnotes, it stated that the actual definition was "house of rest" and I realized that the footstool under God's feet is a postion and picture of rest . . .that God would make all of David's enemies his footstool is saying that Rest is coming to the house of David . . .and when God says the "earth" is his footstool . . .it's saying the same thing about the earth . . .Jesus is the manifestation of that Truth . . .Rest came to the earth and brought resurrection from sin and death.
What do you have on it?
:cloud9: Different teaching (too long and not on topic to add here) but same end result basically. There's a point in our walk where we agree with the adversary while we are in the way with him, and then he becomes our footstool, ie. that which elevates the feet (this generation that is to walk Him around in shoe leather). True peace is when the flesh is no longer warring against the Spirit, and when that happens the adversary is no longer needed (as an adversary), but becomes part of the righteousness of God (think Moses's snake swallowing up the other snakes). Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 05:22:59 PM
Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
This part of your post, spoke to me; in that the "inner court realm", to me; the firstfruits turn over the souls to Christ through their own death/baptism; which was "for" those who had not moved on into the inner court.
in other words, their baptism into death was for a purpose, and it was for others.
as in, Christ's death, burial, resurrection for the "body", the first fruits; and the first fruits baptism for the "harvest".
hope that makes sense, or maybe only makes sense to me. :bigGrin:
Yeah, that seems to make a lot of sense . . . between you and Cardinal . . .your comments are the best I've seen in connection with people being baptized for the dead . . .never made that connection before!!
Quote from: Zeek on March 05, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on March 05, 2009, 05:22:59 PM
Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them. Blessings....
This part of your post, spoke to me; in that the "inner court realm", to me; the firstfruits turn over the souls to Christ through their own death/baptism; which was "for" those who had not moved on into the inner court.
in other words, their baptism into death was for a purpose, and it was for others.
as in, Christ's death, burial, resurrection for the "body", the first fruits; and the first fruits baptism for the "harvest".
hope that makes sense, or maybe only makes sense to me. :bigGrin:
:cloud9: Ok, now I know which way you were going with that, thanks. Good point. I'm off caffeine permanently now as of two weeks ago, and I thought for a moment there, I needed that morning cup of coffee REAL bad, LOL.... :laughing7:
Yes, absolutely right. The Son is a servant. The firstfruits lay down their lives, and become as "dry land bridge" (waters of death have receded off of) for the others to cross over by. Same principle as seeing angels ascending and descending on a ladder. A bridge is nothing but a horizontal "ladder".
So with this principle we can see how the inner court (realm of Christ) is like a bridge or a ladder, between man and God, with "angels" (priests) ascending (to Holy of Holies) and descending (to outer court).
This is why the Spirit as a dove descended on Jesus in the Jordan. The dove (Noah's ark example) finally found a dry place to set her foot (the waters of death could not hold Him). Blessings.....
Okay . . .regrouping on the theme here . . .
Tabernacle overlay . . . altar of sacrifice = feet. Laver = His side. Lamp stand = right hand. Shewbread = Left hand. Altar of incense = head . . .veil of understand, but now removed . .the veil is what is over our minds . . Scripture says it's still over the minds of many who conitnue filling their pews, reading the Scriptures, but still can not see, hear the message, still can not hear . . .
Christ ripped the veil from the top to bottom . . .again . .the order is on purpose. Scritpure speaks of us being written epistles . . .our lives are documented tapestry of God's nature. His sovreignty, his power, authority, love . .on and on . . .each of us have his nature "in" us and we are walking testaments that testify of his righteousness, grace and mercy. This veil however was the separation between our understanding and God's reality. And when Jesus died, just like the will and testiment goes "into" affect, the veil did just the opposite, it no longer needed to be "in" affect. God exposed his heart to all men ... just as he exposed his heart previously to only Peter James and John . . a fraction of the 12 . . . only the death, burial and resurrection of Christ would be able to reveal that to all men . .and still . . .only a fraction can yet see it.
But the veil ripped from top . . .to bottom . .with purpose, on purpose. The blindness was rent from my mind, to my walk . .from my head to my feet. And now, as Paul so brazenly states, we can now go "boldly" to the throne . .with purpose, on purpose . . .we don't have to tie a rope to our feet in fear of death while approaching the source of life. Our worthiness has been made complete through the blood of the Lamb. . slain from the foundation of the world . . .which tells me that the death that occured 2,000 years ago was only a physical manifestion of what was already completed in the spirit LONG, LONG AGO...
5 elements in the tabernacle lead up to where we are now, beholding the ark itself. This truly is a Grace walk ordained and appointed unto man by God. Each step was a preparation for the next. And now, the two courts become one. The Holy of holies and the holy place are all one room. This is Zechariah 4 all over again. The two cherub that rest above the ark 'on' the mercy seat . . .what a great picture that is. the two witnesses, the two anointed ones that stand before God . . .Christ and the Holy Spirit peering across each other "eye to eye" . . .that's actually why "two or more" is relevant here.
The "agree on any one thing . . ." is actually saying that when two can see eye to eye. It's the same with Isaiah's misused and abuse passage of coming together to "reason". It is not men trying to reason with men, but it is God challenging us to reason wth "him". It's more of an alignment .. . coming to see "eye to eye" with light and life so our vision can be healed. The fact that it's called a mercy "seat" tells me to things . .one, it speaks of rest . .but this entire room wreaks of the message of rest . . .but also . . . the "seat" speaks of authority.
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
This is the opening lines of the heaviest scathing rebuke Jesus gave to the church. Through all of this chapter, Jesus is speaking directly to the scribes and Pharisees . .the religious of the religious . . .he cried over the fact that Jerusalem left herself empty and wouldn't let the love of God fill her. The first verse of Matthew 24 is one of the saddest . . .Jesus "left" the temple. It was actually this very religious system that brought the announcment of his coming . . .yet they rejected his presence and it even bothered his disciples to hear him be so hard on them. In Matthew 24, immediately following this rebuke, the disciples tried to get Jesus to lighten up a bit and give respects to the builders of the manmade buidings around them . . .including the temple he just turned his back on . . .
Nuts . .I gotta go . . .add more later.
Okay, the disciples were still feeling the stinging rebuke from what just transpired and as they left, these guys were trying to get Jesus to pay respects to the builders expertise in creating such magnificent work . . .now think about that . . .Jesus just ripped those guys up one side and down the other and yet the disciples want him to pay tribute to the ones who built what he just rebuked. Doesn't that strike you as odd?
Then Jesus gave another revelation . . .not one stone . . .he's not "just" talking about this building, and whether they realized it or not . . .neither were they when they wanted him to notice how great the buildings were. But both he and they were actually speaking about the entire house of the religious system . .and that's also who he was talking to when he verbally tore it down. First, he called it out, then . .it came to be.
The last verse of chapter 23 . . .there's something here that has struck me just now . . .
39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Think about that . . . "you won't see . .until you profess FIRST." You want to have a revelation of Jesus Christ? It takes an act of faith to proclaim it . . .and it is in faith where you can then "see" truth manifest. He's telling them AFTER they say "blessed is he that cometh in the name (nature) of the Lord THEN they will see him henceforth. Just thinking out loud there . . .
But the whole point to this was, Jesus was talking to the Pharisees and scribes, yes, but he was prophecying over the seat . .the authority of Moses . . the law . .the physical disciplinary system. But in the tabernacle . . .the message is not judgment, but one of mercy . . . and grace . . .
Zechariah 4
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
The message of God is no longer one of judgment and rebuke, but one of grace. Zerubbabel was the one appointed by God to rebuild the temple . . .he's a type of Christ as Jesus came and God removed the old religious system and Christ established a new temple . .he's the one that built it and it's not on law, religion and works . .but it's built on faith, hope and love. . . "in" us. So rather than us finding our identity in Christ be entering a church . . .his identity manifests through us as he took his church from without, to within.
That's what the mercy seat is all about. it is the sixth element in the tabernacle. The ark is in two pieces. The mercy seat is the covering, the ark itself is a simple box containing three more elements . . .and they are the heart of God. They are the three-in-one. The manna, the law and the budding rod . .the rod indicates to me, authority again. The law is rightness and the manna is the daily communion of Christ in us.
Manna was not collected on the earth . . .that's not where sustaining life ever is. It is actually a returning of the garden for them . . .Scripture says they were covered and led by a cloud . . . not of smoke . . .ever go out in the early summer morning and have the morning fog be so dense you could barely see in front of your face? The garden was much like that in the "mist" would arise from within the earth . .and wash the face of the ground . . .that's just so cool. The mist (spirit) would rise (ascend, elevate . .upper room experience) and wash . .(duh, cleanse, purify) the face (identity) of the earth (flesh). In another thread we were just talking about how the kingdom of God is "in" you. From out of "you", your earth, this mist does ascend, and it washes, it cleanses and purifies your ability to identify yourself with your creator . . .
At any rate, the mist would form on the surface of the earth and it was upon that dew that the manna would rest upon. Very much like how worship sets the atmosphere for the manna to be received into the hearts of the congregation. Worship is what brings all of the different opinions into the alignment of "unity" in Christ. We're all singing "the same" song. We're all in "the same" rhythm, we're all singing and haromonizing in "the same" key. It's not so much a balance scale where it's half and half . . .it's more like a compass . .or like the opening of a valve . . .the lever goes verticle which releases his anointing "into" us as we turn our eyes to him and not on us . . .we put our minds beneath our spirits . . .and all heaven breaks loose in us.
This is the foundation for the manna to rest upon our earth . .upon our nature . . . and we can feast upon the bread of life. Which by the way, tastes like honey. The manna is Christ, the Son of God. Aaron's rod, a dead branch that turned green, blossomed and produced fruit . . .three dimensions there as well. It is the spirit that breathes upon the word that makes it come alive in us.
The third is the law . . .it's the framework of rightness. It is what manifests in us when we accept him into our hearts . .along with the life of the spirit . . .along with the sustaining virtue of truth and substance. This is Christ . .this is God. This is why I just love the mount of transfiguration story.
Israel broke God's heart. The day Eli's sons . .Eli was the high priest of his day, his sons were supposedly upcoming priests but God removed Eli's dynasty from the temple due to his sons perversions and Eli's passiveness to allow it to go on. At any rate, they took the ark down to the battle front . . .the ark represents the presence of God . . .this is actually what almost got me kicked out of the denomination last October by the way . . . my superiors are extremely concerned about me sharing dimensional things . .go figure.
But the ark is where God resides . .so it's not that big of a stretch to then see that it represents God's presence. And there was only one way it could be moved, and that was on long wooden poles . . oversized rods . . .which again are what? Authority. Made of wood . . .dead trees . .a tree had to die before it could be crafted into something that God's presence could ride on. Men are as trees . . .
But instead of them winning that battle, they lost not only the battle, but Eli's sons were killed and the ark was stolen. The enemy didn't know honor from awe . . .in their eyes, it was another self-gratifying way to appease their own desires . . .serve another god, worship another idol . .made no difference to them . . .but this time . .it cost them much.
But to shorten the story . . ."when" Israel finally did get the ark back . . .the only thing ever mentioned being in it was the stone tablets. Remember what these three things represent? You had law, life, and daily manna, sustaining health. . . you had God, Christ, and the spirit . . . when they took God's presence and attempted to use Him for their own lusts . . .they failed miserably and even after the ark was returned, they were forced to live with the only identity left . . .and that was law.
If you think about it . . .Israel didn't even have their first king yet . . .and I bet there's a connection there as well in that Samuel was the last judge . . God didn't want them to have a king, but they saw what their neighbors had . . they compared themselves according to themselves and found themselves in want . ..so they demanded to have a king like that of their enemies . . .that just sounds odd.
But at that same time was when they assumed the ark was like a credit card and they could just wave it around like it was a cure all with out giving any thought to submission to God's order and for the entire time Israel had a king . . .through the entire Old Testament . . .all the way up to the mount of transfiguration . . .Israel went with the only identity left in the ark . . .the stone tablets.
But when Peter, James and John saw Jesus with Elijah and Moses . . they saw God's heart being healed. And it all had to do with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. That was the first time since the ark was lost, that all three elements were returned to their rightful place. The very temple Jesus turned his back on, he was also healing. When the temple's veil was ripped, the ark was revealed. Healing of the nations had come.
May be the last post on this directly, we'll see where it goes . . .
The ark of God comes in two pieces . . .one is the mercy seat . .the other is the ark itself that contains the three elements. For me, I see this to be a picture of the Father and Son . . .the nature of God is law, manna and life . . .the nature of Christ is . . .mercy. The room itself is where the Spirit fits in . . .10x10x10 . . .dimensions of the reign of rest. The more we mature in him, the more we realize it's his work being done in us, not us at all. Jesus rests in the Father, just as the mercy seat rests on the ark.
Another thing that struck me when they lost the ark . . .the enemy had no idea or formal instruction on how to move the ark . . .yet there is no record of anyone dying from touching the ark . . .and there is proof the ark had to have been touched . ..the manna and Aaron's staff were missing. I believe that only the Jews were to die from touching it but I've no proof of that. My only defense is that God doesn't require Gentiles to adhere to Jewish law. So why would he then kill them for touching it when that law wasn't for them, but for the Jews.
When Uzzah touched the ark and died, they'd already broken a cardinal law by building a wooden cart. What I'm about to tell you here, is what I shared at a pastor's meeting back in October that got me in very much hot water. Still am actually . . .spoke with the powers that be just yesterday and they're still giving me the same speech they gave me then . . ."we're not upset, but if God has you in a different place, then go with God . . .away from this denomination . . ."
Anyway . . .what I shared was this . . . by those guys building a new cart . .that is a picture of men building their own means, their own doctrine that they can then conveniently control the direction of God's presence. There was a specific order in which the ark was to be carried . . .the long poles again . . for me, they are extension of authority, ordained by God . ..and they are to rest upon the shoulders of the priests as they carry the ark . . .this represents a renewed mind . . .he is the "head" we are the body . .it's also why I emphasize the importance of having my mind submit to my spirit. I'm not to walk according to my own head, my own thinking and reasoning and choose the path that I want God's presence to go . . .but instead, by carrying the ark on poles resting on my shoulders at the head of the congregation . . .this is showing that God is leading me . . .not me leading God.
The cart was pulled by oxen . . .oxen are a sign of plowing ..of laboring . . the man-made cart hit a rut, a hole in the ground . . .flesh always has a way of confusing my doctrine . .or trying to. And it was at that point that man reached up to "steady" the ark . . .man is always trying to keep God in his cart. It even makes you wonder . . .how'd they get it in the cart in the first place? If they knew you had to lift it by using poles, then they would also of known that was how it was to be carried.
And the timing of this . . .jeeze, how awkward . . .in the middle of a full blown celebration. . . makes ya wonder about the worship in many churches . . .we get emotional and call it God . . .yet when God truly manifests . . .somebody dies. The order is all wrong . .and it's not about control or conformity . .it's just simply about knowing God. David had to drop everything . . .go home and do some research on how they moved the thing without dying . .when he learned the order . . .the curse was reversed into blessing.
May we get our crowbars and tear down our ox carts that we made according to our own reasoning and take up the extended authority of God and be led by the spirit rather than our own limited understanding and imagery.
Blessings.
"The life flows in the blood, filling the chambers of the heart and mind."
It took some time to catch-up on this thread, but it is a blessing!
peacemaker
:cloud9: I was going to re-write some things, but then I remembered that I covered some of what I wanted to add in another post. So pardon me for taking a short cut........
:cloud9: Church: this is what I see, and it's "radical", I admit. But from the Word I see a "church" that is comprised of born from above, Spirit filled individuals. This is the only kind of Christian I could find in the Bible the first time I read it, and my opinion has not changed. References, such as the "church at Rome", means those that fit the above criteria, are THE church, not a building with a name on it, and not one particular gathering of people in one spot, but rather many gatherings in many locations, IF they fit the criteria above. They do not require any specific building; most had the first, "home fellowships". Occasionally, certain ones got to teach in the synagogues, but that was the closest it got to an "organized" domain.
:cloud9: What would be the outcome of that? What would "church" be like if that was all we had? Would people still want to go if they found it required something of them, namely to press in (in a variety of ways) so that HE could have free reign to manifest through them making them to be a joint of SUPPLY, equal in "status" to all the others present, instead of sitting passively on a pew waiting to be fed? What if there was no preplanned "service", and all just came together to see what THE LORD wanted to do in our midst?
Paul spoke of that very thing, but it was overlooked as the enemy of our souls found a point of contention to use to divide in the next part of this chapter, ie. the debate over what, when and where of tongues. Look at what he said was going on IN CHURCH.
1 Corinthians 14:26-33
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
When's the last time you were in a church building, and every one of you was given a song by the Spirit, revelation of doctrine, a word spoken through tongue and interpretation, a revelation or an interpretation of part of the Word given by that same Spirit? And if you got it, were you allowed to "disrupt" the preplanned "service" to give it?
:cloud9: Christ was apportioned (earnest of our inheritance, earnest means portion, the priest's portion was God Himself) in the form of 5 divisions of His nature as it functions in the realm of the works of God. This was done by the Holy Ghost falling on them on the day of Pentecost, and was for ALL that went past those 5 pillars to get into the realm of the priesthood. When all were told they had to come to experience the feast of Pentecost, it meant ALL, it didn't mean some, and it didn't mean the supposed few "called" to be leaders over the others.
Feast to our mindset is totally different to what God means. The Hebrew word there for feast means, "a divine appointment".
Luke 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
:cloud9: A kingdom has a King, and that Kingdom functions exactly according to what the King has appointed or decreed, according to his nature. We were appointed His Kingdom and the King/Head wishes to function through us according to His nature.
:cloud9: His nature was/is to be revealed through the works of God in His form and function. Not through someone, in the sense of them just "holding the office", but HE HIMSELF manifesting though the individual AS the apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher and pastor. This manifestation of His form and function has laid dormant within the body for the most part and are withered from lack of use, like the withered HAND of the man who sat outside the temple.
:cloud9: The gifts of the Spirit that are what I call the "action" gifts, ie. something HAPPENS, are activated by the growth into one of these 5 fold gifts of form and function, generally also remain dormant except in a rarefied few.
:cloud9: The 5 fold was intended to be the formation of HIS mature body, which is SPIRIT, in OUR earth, and as the hand of God. The action gifts are HIS BODY'S "senses",
ie. how HIS body IN US, was to interact or react through us and in the world around us.
Such as; He speaks, He heals, He builds up, He teaches, He encourages; all of these are represented in word of wisdom, word of knowledge, prophesying (speaking gifts), gifts of healings, miracles, ect.
:cloud9: The church's primary reason for assembly is to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. The Spirit and the Word agree, and that's the Truth (pun intended). Put another way, when the Word (true 5 fold) and the Spirit (His "senses") are manifested equally, they produce the Truth and as He IS the Truth, they produce Him, fully matured in form and function, in our midst.
:cloud9: Just as with a natural hand it is impossible to dig a hole in the earth to bury a man and set up a tombstone (memorial stone) with only one finger, so too was it never intended that one finger (pastor) or even 2 fingers (evangelist) try to bury the "old man" and RAISE UP a memorial stone (Christ our Rock/righteousness) signifying the place where he died.
Those 2 fingers can't "smite" that Rock to get the living waters to come out (resurrect) either, because they can't grasp the rod of AUTHORITY (upright heart) as the hand of God without all the "members" of the hand operating in form and function as well. So we ended up with a body that was lame, blind and dumb, unable to see the pattern shown in the mount means HE couldn't fully walk, see, or talk through us. This is why we have not experienced the things the apostles did.
But He knew the end from the beginning and He knew it would take yet a new thing, to finish the WHOLE counsel of God. Blessings....
Hey Nathan (and others) I don't know if any of you have read/ heard him, but there's some good (IMO) tabernacle living stuff at
www.sigler.org both audio and written.
:cloud9: Yes, I know him, but I didn't know he had any stuff on the Tabernacle...... :thumbsup:
In calling out Abraham, a man for Himself, God was not finished. He brought forth from him nations, choosing one for Himself. They went into bondage in Egypt (Mizraim: double crowns) from whence God brought them out, showing His mighty hand with signs and wonders. His purpose was not only to bring them out, but to bring them into a rich land for their inheritance. He went farther, to establish in the midst of the Land of Promise a city called the navel of the whole earth. Yet, in the heart of that city on a mountain He had them build a temple. And on into the innermost chamber of that temple, the holy of holies, His ark of the covenant was placed. AT THE CENTER, RULING OVER ALL, IS THE WORD: WHO IS THE IMAGE AND GLORY OF GOD, RESTING ON THE MERCY THRONE.
To establish that throne of MERCY in the innermost of you is what is His purpose in calling you to Himself. Mercy in Hebrew chesed is the earnest passion to meet the need, the drive to fulfill. It is covenantal love in action. In Greek it is charis grace, the result of having been filled full. The manifest presence of God, the Glory...rests on the Mercy!
:cloud9: Loved it! :thumbsup:
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice.
--Merchant of Venice, Act 4, Scene 1
:cloud9: reFormer, your post reminded me of something the Lord told my friend once. He told her that He wanted her heart to be like a beanbag! She said, "Beanbag, Lord, what do you mean by that?"
He said that it was because a beanbag was soft and pliable and able to be molded into the shape of the One who sat and rested upon it. When He is finished with us, our heart becomes His throne, and He rests from His labors in us. Blessings....
Quote from: reFORMer on March 04, 2009, 11:06:37 PM
(I wrote this a while back, though I don't know if I posted it elsewhere on tentmaker.)
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I grew up in a church that called itself "Full Gospel." They taught what could be called two salvation experiences: 1.) "born-again," or, vivification of spirit and 2.) "Baptism in the Holy Spirit," which over time refers to the guiding, teaching and forming of our consciousness, emotions and will. This is a progressive change of the soul by the work of the Holy Spirit, or, rousing of the soul. What I didn't then know was that there's a third dimension, a third salvation: 3.) "resurrection," or, raising of the body. Paul spoke of it as a race he was striving to win.
My idea of resurrection had been an acceptance of Jesus' historical resurrection and a belief in some future change for myself and even all humanity. This was not something I viewed as able to be affected by anything I could do. It took time and growth in knowledge of Scripture to understand we're racing against death. Will we mature enough, that is reach enough "finishedness" to not be taken out by the last enemy? If God is no respecter of persons, and we realize (even if they don't possess it like Jesus does) Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah entered into something of this full victory, then there is before each one of us an open door that no man can shut.
This 3rd dimension is definitely what the following Pauline references (ASV) from Phillipians 3 are about: "If by any means I may attain unto the resurrection from the dead..." (v.3) "I press on toward the goal unto the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus..." (v.14) "For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself." (v.19-21) Resurrection followed by ascension is actually the at the finish of the race we are in. We've already entered something of the end because he who is the beginning and the end has entered us. He is the resurrection and the life. He has joined us here from his place in ascension. His increasing presence in us will bring about this change and manifest to the world with us until we rule with him for the thousands (though contested, "Millennium" is actually plural in Greek) of years.
The three Feasts (God entering into us, Christ in us) are 1.) Passover = new birth; 2.) Pentecost = manifestations of teaching rain for soul change; 3.) Tabernacles = transfiguration of habitation.
The three successive dimensions of The Tabernacle/Temple (our entrance into God, we in Christ) are: 1.) the outer court = through a veil, not measured, where the crowd is, in "natural" light, concerned with judgment and cleansing; 2.) the holy place = another lifting of a veil (paradigm change,) only by appointment of God to the priesthood, the light is from scripture (the lampstand has 66 parts) and the anointing in the Church (those united with the word hid in their hearts which is what God anoints, the oil that must be refreshed is burning, there's activity and most of what's there is made by man, concerned with prayer (fresh bread of faces--we are one loaf) and altar of incense; 3.) the holy of holies = another veil removed (Isaiah 25:6-9) veil removed is death destroyed,)1000 sq cubits (Millennium,) only once on day of atonement during feast of tabernacles the High priest (Jesus first born head of entire body--feet last born) enter in, the only light is from the Shekinah presence resting on the throne of mercy ruling over all. Changed by union with the Word Who is the Image and Glory of God, His throne must be establish in you for the glory to rest upon.
Look up the "third day" in Scripture. ("...on the third day I shall be glorified..." Consider the many threefold things; eg., "you have not many 'fathers'" (deriv., "starter"), Patriarchs Abraham, Isaac (lit., "laughter," "laugh causer" -- "in Isaac your seed shall be called") and Jacob (who has the name/nature change) unfold the Spirits progressive work in bringing forth mature nurturers, the Fatherhood realm.
The women are churches, or, the soul conceiving, or, covenants (Ga 4:21-31) if husband law dies she is free to marry grace (Rm 7:2-6) but even knowing that no learning more and trying harder which is works of law, even knowing there is no disciplined path of anything that can bring the voice of God into us (paraphrase of Ga 2:16) Orpah (30 fold) only goes as far as the borders of her natural birth land, her natural impulses; Naomi (60 fold, Pentecost not enough) says bitterly, " the hand of the Lord has gone out against me...I am too old;" Ruth for love goes all the way and lies at His feet in the middle of the night and says,"Cover me." "...not to be uncovered, but clothed upon; for this mortal must put on the immortal!"
Then I really like the mind to rule (what is kingdom of God mentality): (30 fold, born again:) King Saul, anointed flesh; (60 fold, gifts of Spirit:) King David (translated means "beloved,") another house (not the first man) defeats the enemies of the Lord, flesh subdued; (100 fold, tabernacle, body transfigured, resurrection:) King Solomon (peace, welfare) brings in the flesh (embodiment) glorified, his realm is marked by wisdom.
Without going anywhere else I'm striving and expecting to come into complete victory, even over death, walking with Jesus so closely all the time that I cross over, I change rather than sleep. This is what Jesus has me looking to him for. Ah, intimacy with God...
your brother, James Rohde
Truly have been blessed by all that you have shared....
Brother, I am believing with you for complete victory, even over death....and it is all His work...and He will finish what He has started within His firstfruits people....the change is happening even now within the physical body....
So be it.
Be blessed,
DoD
Quote
David was not permitted to build the temple because he was a bloody man, but it was not from warfare, after all God told him when to go to war.
The blood on his hands was because he desired a woman/soul who was not his to have, to join himself to her, and he was willing to kill her husband to do it. Those in the inner court realm, their ultimate responsibility is to turn over the souls to Christ that HE might be their head and be joined to them.
Wow, this was just quickened to me, most especially where you say, "he was willing to kill HER HUSBAND to do it (have her)." Instantly I could see the times when I have done this very same thing (not literally), but figuratively because of my flesh being weak. I hope those reading understand what I mean when I say this. Think of it - even we being people after God's heart can still fall to the desires of our flesh which is weak. - Anne
:cloud9: I know what you mean :thumbsup:
www.georgewarnock.com
Look for "From the Tent to the Temple"
Really edifying.
A few thoughts of my own about the tabernacle and growing in grace.
"And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them." Exodus 25:8
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:3
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.(tabernacle effect)
(Mat 18:20)
In the holy of holies was the ark of the covenant. The mercy seat corresponds to the heart of man, where the blood is applied and the Spirit comes to dwell. "having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil consciousness...."
The acacia box was gilded, man adorned by the divine nature, corresponding to the soul, that is being transformed through the renewing of the mind, converted by the kindness, discipline and revelation of God. Within it was the testimony of God.....thus it was called the ark of testimony
Above it were the cherubim, wings outstretched, corresponding to the spirit of man. All this corresponding to the pattern of the heavens, wheels within wheels, the tabernacle of God is with men."Holy Holy Hoy Lord god Almighty who was and is and is to come."
We have not received a spirit of fear, but of power(cherubim), love(mercy seat) and a sound mind(acacia box).
In the outer court, praise God, their is a lot of blood being shed, many sacrifices for sins- much forgiveness for babes and little children. Yet where there is much forgiven there is much love, and eventually gratitude draws us towards the holy place, and true discipleship.
At the entrance is the bronze laver, sitting atop of the bronze bulls. The entry to the holy place requires acceptance of progressive sanctification(the bronze sea) through submission of the will(oxen). To go in unwashed(having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water) was against the law and unwise. The prerequisite to life in the holy place is the acceptance of sanctification through the renewing of the mind/fellowship in the Spirit(lampstand) and Koinonea /fellowship among the saints (the table of presence/showbread). The lampstand was hammered by a skilled craftsman out of one lump of pure gold "tried in the fire 7 times". (I counsel you, by of me gold tried in the fire and eyesalve for your blindness)
(2Pe 1:2-8)
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We all stumble in many ways, but on the way toward the veil into the holy of holies there is a golden altar. This is a witness to a deeper sanctification. A deeper submission, brokeness and prayer. It corresponds to the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus, our high priest, before He entered once and for all(\o/), sanctified himself before the father in agony of soul, offering the last step of obedience, "Nevertheless not my will but thine be done". In the holy place maybe we can sleep a little but at the golden altar He chides us, "What can you not wait one hour?".
The blood of a firstborn male Lamb is sprinkled upon that altar, corresponding with the sacrifice of the son, the Isaac of God(our desire)-the sonship offering that qualifies us for life in the mature son- "Until we all attain."
This golden altar of incense is at the door of the heart, the way into the life of the spirit man, the overcomer. I believe Jesus could only enter through total humility and dependence on the Father....How much more do we need this grace.
It also corresponds to the 5th seal, the saints beneath the altar in Revelation 6:9, those "beheaded" for their faith,
and to the 7th seal in rev 8, the prayer of these saints are what brings judgment on the earth (thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven), as the angels add incense to the incense of the prayers of the saints upon the golden altar of incense and cast it down to he earth with the fire of the altar. "When your obedience is complete I will bring about their obedience also".
So all our life in Christ is a drawing further in, so that as the high priest entered we might join in the intercession and the warfare, seated with Christ in the heavenly realms, casting down imaginations, tearing down strongholds, living in the power, the love and the soundness of mind that comes from the Spirit.
(Php 3:8-16)
More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
:cloud9: Beautiful! :goodpost: :thumbsup:
Wow ! :HeartThrob: Very descriptive and yet very clear
love it :cloud9: Almost visualize these things in motion :thumbsup:
Tremendous Post :icon_flower:
:cloud9: Found this on the net. For those that have ears to hear what Heb. 10 says about the pattern of the Tabernacle, here is something to aid the study of it. Even though the DVD is $11.99, you can download some things free, if you click on it (purchase button).
I normally don't purchase much, but I am going to order this, as I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and I loan such things as I have, out all the time, and I think this would be good for illustration of principles. Blessings....
http://www.animmanstudios.com/tabernacle.html
Quote from: Cardinal on December 19, 2009, 02:26:57 PM
:cloud9: Found this on the net. For those that have ears to hear what Heb. 10 says about the pattern of the Tabernacle, here is something to aid the study of it. Even though the DVD is $11.99, you can download some things free, if you click on it (purchase button).
I normally don't purchase much, but I am going to order this, as I think a picture is worth a thousand words, and I loan such things as I have, out all the time, and I think this would be good for illustration of principles. Blessings....
http://www.animmanstudios.com/tabernacle.html
I had never pictured the pillar of fire over the tabernacle before. That is so cool.
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
:cloud9: Yeah, the first time I realized that it was a PILLAR of cloud and a PILLAR of fire, a whole bunch of things just clicked! Blessings.....
Looks awesome!
I OCRed the following from a book I've just started reading.
OCR is a process in which a computer "reads" a printed book and converts it to text.
It's far from perfect. If certain parts are unreadable lemme know and I'll correct it manually.
Foreword
Jesus was crucified near the southern summit of the Mount of
Olives. There can be no doubt that this location is correct. Though
the actual site has been hidden for 1670 years, its true place can
now be found in the clearest of ways. The simplicity it took in
locating the spot deserves an explanation. Since the account does
not take long to explain, and since it has the advantage of showing
the coherence of all sections of the Bible in a symbolic and geo-
graphical sense, I will mention the discovery in this Foreword. The
outcome was unexpected and unusual. It shows that paying close
attention to the text of the Bible can be rewarding in showing the
real teachings of the Scriptures. This is what all of us who are
engaged in biblical studies want to comprehend in this modern age.
The following is what happened a little over twelve years ago.
The Symbolism of the Temple
In the early part of August, 1983, I was writing a chapter for the
first edition of my book Restoring the Original Bible. Customarily
when writing a book, I isolate myself from regular office and social
duties, so I was writing my book a hundred miles east of my office
in Pasadena, California. For the previous six weeks I had been con-
centrating only on writing this new book.
One evening while composing a chapter in which I was endeav-
oring to show a relationship between the three sections of the
Hebrew Bible called the Law, the Prophets and the Writings with
the three divisions of the Tabernacle that Moses raised up in the
wilderness, I accidentally came to see that this same analogy could
be used to pinpoint the place for the crucifixion of Jesus. This
occurred to me because I had come across an additional extension
to this analogy in research that I had previously done. That exten-
sion came about because of investigations I had made (about six
years before) showing that the three divisions of the Tabernacle
(and the Temple of Solomon as well as the Temple of Herod) could
also be equated in a symbolic sense with the three divisions of the
Land of Eden mentioned in the early chapters of Genesis. But now,
in writing this new book, and while attempting to show that the
three divisions of the Tabernacle and Temples were equated in a
symbolic way with the three divisions of the Hebrew Bible, I was
now faced with the additional fact that the three divisions of the
Land of Eden could be equally applied to support the analogy. In a
roundabout way, this led me to seek out the place for the crucifix-
ion of Jesus. Let us see how this can be done.
Since Judaism had long recognized that the three divisions of the
Land of Eden were analogous to the three divisions of the
Tabernacle and the Temples, the consequences of this fact afforded
me a prime symbolic hint of a geographical nature that prompted
me to begin a new search for the site of the crucifixion of Jesus. The
truth is, the analogies just mentioned (as strange as they may appear
at first) have profound geographical information in them that can
help anyone in identifying the place where Jesus was crucified if
one is willing to slow down and examine the evidence. This means
to examine the plain and simple geographical facts that anyone who
has even a superficial knowledge of the biblical revelation would
have no difficulty in ascertaining. Look at the geographical factors
that can aid us in discovering the place of Jesus' crucifixion.
Geography is the Key
The first geographical fact to note is the biblical account that the
Garden associated with Adam and Eve was located within an
extensive area called the Land of Eden. We must be careful to rec-
ognize that the Garden of Eden and the Land of Eden are not the
same in meaning. The Garden was actually situated within the
boundaries of Eden and it made up only a part of Eden. Look first
at the Garden. Close examination shows that the Garden had two
sections to it. The first and principal portion was its inner area
where God periodically met with Adam and Eve. This inner region
in the Jewish symbolism associated with the Tabernacle and
Temples answered to the inner Holy of Holies where God was sup-
posed to have His residence. The second section of the Garden was
the remainder of the outer Garden area (excluding the inner sec-
tion) and it had boundaries that separated the Garden from the rest
of the Land of Eden. This second section of the Garden answered
to an area located just east of the Holy of Holies and called the Holy
Place in the Tabernacle and Temples. This is where the priests per-
formed all their ceremonial duties. Outside the Garden one would
find himself within the territory that was called the Land of Eden.
The Land of Eden surrounded the Garden itself, and in the Book of
Genesis, this was called "the Land of Eden" proper. Remember that
the Garden was placed within this larger area called the Land of
Eden.
The biblical account then tells us that Adam and Eve were
expelled from the region of the Garden but they were able to make
their home in the rest of the Land of Eden. It was in this area of
Eden just outside the eastern gate of the Garden where Cain and
Abel built an altar to petition God whom they considered to be in
the inner Garden. This altar was built at the east entrance to the
Garden and there they offered their sacrifices. This particular altar
of Cain and Abel came to be analogous to the Altar of Burnt
Offering located just east of the Holy Place in the Tabernacle and
the later Temples.
Now look at the Land of Eden itself. The early Jewish authori-
ties understood that the whole area of Eden was symbolic of the
Court of the Israelites in the Tabernacle and Temples and it also
included the extended area around the Sanctuaries which came to
be called the "Camp of Israel." So, the two parts of the Garden with
the Land of Eden (when combined together) were identified as rep-
resenting the three compartments in the Tabernacle and later
Temples: 1) the Holy of Holies and 2) the Holy Place represented
the two parts of the Garden itself, and 3) the Court of Israel with the
"Camp of Israel" represented the rest of the Land of Eden. Let us
now look at this extensive area called the Land of Eden.
The Land of Eden Had Borders Around It
Recall that Cain was expelled from the Land of Eden (which the
Court and Camp of Israel came to represent). Cain was forced out-
side the borders of Eden into the Land of Nod which meant "Land
of Wandering." This land was located east of Eden. In the time of
the later Temples, this region answered to the lands of the Gentiles
outside the sanctified region at Jerusalem (that is, outside the
"Camp" area of Israel). It was in this outer area east of Eden that
God said Cain would be provided with an animal sacrifice that
would "lie at the door" (Genesis 4:7). The Hebrew of this verse
actually suggests that this sacrificial animal would be "couching at
the door" and that it would be under a heavy weight. Since Cain by
murdering Abel had sinned against his brother, and consequently
Cain had sinned against God by his murderous act, the animal sac-
rifice that God would provide for Cain was understood to be a type
of sin offering bearing a heavy weight of sin and guilt. God told
Cain that this sin offering was to be presented alive "at the door."
This "door" was an entrance into a region that the text in the Book
of Genesis does not specify. But there is no problem in identifying
the area where this "door" was located. This "door" was actually
the entrance back into the Land of Eden from the Land of Nod.
Remember, Cain had been expelled eastward from Eden and he
could not re-enter the Land of Eden. This "door" before which
Cain's sacrifice was to be placed was located at the eastern bound-
ary line between the Land of Eden and the Land of Nod. Since it
was recognized by Cain that God dwelt in the Garden which was
within the interior of Eden, this sacrifice for Cain was to be locat-
ed on an altar facing God at His dwelling place within the Garden.
Cain with his sacrifice was to petition God who dwelt in the Land
of Eden, west from the Land of Nod. In a word, the sacrifice of
Cain was to be placed on an altar just in front of the east entrance
to the Land of Eden.
Now, what do these symbolic teachings (and geographical mat-
ters) about Eden and Cain's offering have to do with the later
Tabernacle and the Temples at Jerusalem? And how can these early
symbolic factors help in identifying the site for the crucifixion of
Jesus? This is easy to answer. Let us look further.
The Clue to the Place of Jesus' Crucifixion
In the time of the later Sanctuaries, there was an altar associated
with those Temples that was analogous to the one that God provid-
ed for Cain. This was an altar that the prophet Ezekiel said was
located east of the Temple and "without the sanctuary" (Ezekiel
43:21). Very few people pay attention to this important altar, but it
was a sacred piece of furniture associated with the sacrificial ser-
vices of the Temple. On this particular altar some of the main sin
offerings ordained by Moses were burnt to ashes. Indeed, the
important sacrifice of the Red Heifer was performed at this eastern
altar which was located as Ezekiel says "without the sanctuary."
Using the Land of Eden in ,its symbolic fashion, this meant the altar
was situated "without the Land of Eden" and on its east side.
Where was this altar situated in relationship to the Temple? In the
time of Jesus, Jewish records show that this outer altar was located
near the southern summit of the Mount of Olives directly east of the
Temple. It was also positioned just "outside the Camp" of Israel,
which made it to be analogous to being just "outside the Land of
Eden." This was the same type of altar on which the sacrifice for
Cain mentioned in Genesis 4:7 was to be offered at the eastern
entrance (door) to Eden. It must be kept in mind that the "Camp of
Israel" in the time of Moses (and also in later periods) was sym-
bolically analogous to the "Land of Eden" in the early Genesis
account. I will show these facts in detail in the body of this book.
These matters were well recognized in Jewish circles in the first
century, but here I was writing my new book and endeavoring to
show a connection between the three compartments of the
Tabernacle and the Temples with the three divisions of the Old
Testament. While this was an interesting and proper comparison,
the one thing that began to puzzle me was the fact that the altar on
which Cain was to be given his sacrifice was located at the eastern
entrance to the Land of Eden. This altar of Cain was analogous to
that of Moses (and later Solomon and Herod) which he positioned
just "outside the camp" of Israel. The prophet Ezekiel said it was in
the east and also "without the sanctuary" (Ezekiel 43:21) and that
it was, itself, an "outward sanctuary" (Ezekiel 44:1). Jewish
sources tell us that this particular altar was located some 2000
cubits east of the central part of the Temple. In the time of Jesus, it
was placed slightly down slope from the southern summit of the
Mount of Olives and in full view of the Temple located in the west.
In writing about this fact on that Saturday in the early part of
August, 1983, all of a sudden it came to my attention that this geo-
graphical symbolism of Cain and his eastern altar might provide a
clue to the place where Jesus was crucified. Since most conserva-
tive Christian scholars had long suggested that the animal sacrifice
that God was preparing for Cain was typical of Jesus and his sacri-
ficial act of crucifixion, it began to dawn on me that this sacrifice
for Cain could well be a hint to the location of the place where
Jesus was crucified, even though the illustration was purely sym-
bolic. If this were a valid indication, then it was suggesting to me
that this could truly be a geographical clue to the whereabouts of
Jesus' crucifixion. The impression prompted me to look in an east-
erly direction from the Temple where I had never looked before.
Also, in my studies up to that time, I had never read or heard of any
scholar suggesting an easterly direction as even possible. What is
surprising in all of this is the fact that in my previous discussions
with anyone about the site of the crucifixion, not one person had
ever commented or even hinted to me that the eastern part of
Jerusalem had positive credentials. But here I was with this new
geographical clue. This new factor was directing me to look east-
ward to the Mount of Olives as the site for Jesus' crucifixion.
Symbol Represents Reality
This symbolic teaching was suggesting that the analogous
agreement between the Altar of Cain in the Land of Nod and the
Altar of the Red Heifer on the Mount of Olives ("the OUTWARD
Sanctuary" of Ezekiel 44:1) indicated that Jesus may have been
crucified east of the Temple to agree with the eastern aspect of
Cain's special sin offering on the altar that God provided for him.
Recognizing this hint made me immediately cease the writing of
my book. To me, discovering the place of the crucifixion of Jesus
was more important than finishing the book I was then composing.
It encouraged me to say to myself: "Early tomorrow morning I will
begin to look again in the Bible and history for any clues that might
identify the place where Jesus was crucified as being east of the
Temple and Jerusalem." With this new geographical glimpse, the
next morning I began a concentrated study of the matter. To my
utter amazement, within two days I had arrived at a number of
solidly based evidences from the Bible and history that began to
show conclusively that Jesus was indeed crucified east of the
Temple. To be more specific, this new evidence coming from the
Bible itself (which will be shown in this book) revealed that Jesus
was crucified near the southern summit of the Mount of Olives near
where the type of symbolic "altar for Cain" was then located.
With this new research, I telephoned my office staff in Pasadena
with the news. I informed them that it looked promising that the
place of Jesus' crucifixion could now be found. Within three days,
I returned to Pasadena and called a meeting of the staff and other
friends to explain the new research. They offered suggestions and
some corroborative points. I then wrote a preliminary report con-
ceming what I had found and sent it to all my associates in various
parts of the world who were on our mailing list.
Since the time of the original research, I have written two
research reports and two major books about the true site of the cru-
cifixion of Jesus (the title of my first book was "The Place of the
Crucifixion"). These works have increasingly shown, without the
slightest doubt in my mind, that the area east of the Temple at
Jerusalem and on the Mount of Olives is the place where Jesus was
crucified and resurrected from the dead. »
The following chapters of this book will reveal the outcome of
this early research in greater detail. There are now literally dozens
of major proofs which show that this first geographical hint that
came to me regarding the matter of "Cain's altar" was indeed a true
indication for locating the place where Jesus was crucified, and
cumulatively over these past twelve years, a variety of further evi-
dences have been discovered which present a strong case that Jesus
was crucified on the Mount of Olives.
Chapter 1 THE GEOGRAPHICAL KEY TO Jesus' CRUCIFIXION
There is no longer any doubt. Jesus was crucified near the sum-
mit of the Mount of Olives about half a mile east of the Temple
Mount. This fact is confirmed in the New Testament in a variety of
ways. One such confirmation comes from the Book of Hebrews. It
states that the crucifixion occurred "without the gate" and "without
the camp" of Israel that was associated with the city of Jerusalem
in the early first century (Hebrews 13:11-13). These geographical
factors in the Book of Hebrews are of utmost importance in locat-
ing the place of the crucifixion of Jesus. In fact, these two phrases
in the Book of Hebrews of themselves are sufficient to pinpoint the
region where the crucifixion of Jesus took place.
With the geographical references in the Book of Hebrews that
Jesus was crucified "without the gate" and "without the camp,"
these are adequate indications to allow any school child in the first
century who lived in the vicinity of Jerusalem the ability to identi-
fy the area of the crucifixion. These geographical factors may mean
little to us who live in the modem western world, but to early
Jewish people in the Jerusalem area, they can mean only one thing:
:cloud9: Love this! This is a must read.....Blessings... :thumbsup:
CONSIDER: About 2,500 years ago, Ezekiel foresaw the future of the Temple Mount. The prophet wrote that the East Gate of the Temple Mount would be sealed, and remain sealed until the "prince" comes.
About 2,000 years later, a Muslim sealed the east gate with blocks and mortar. This same gate has remained closed for almost 500 years.
EZEKIEL 44:1-3
1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the LORD unto me; THIS GATE SHALL BE SHUT, IT SHALL NOT BE OPENED, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
Ezekiel wrote that the gate of the "outward sanctuary" will be "shut" and it will "not be opened." The word "sanctuary" comes from the Hebrew word "miqdash" which means "holy place." Of course, the holy place of Israel is the entire Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
The East Gate of the Temple Mount is known as the "Gate of Mercy" and the "Golden Gate." If you travel to Israel today, you can witness with your own eyes that the east gate into the Old City is now walled shut, as Ezekiel predicted.
GOD'S GLORY COMES THROUGH THIS GATE
In the previous chapter of Ezekiel, the prophet described a vision of God coming to the earth. When God came to the earth, he entered the sanctuary through the East Gate:
EZEKIEL 43:1-5
1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3 And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
After Ezekiel had this vision, he wrote that the East Gate will be sealed because: "the LORD God had entered in by it" (44:2). This vision describes God's Spiritual essence entering the gate. According to Jesus, God's glory will cover Him when He returns:
"Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." (Mark 8:38)
Although Jesus is God incarnate, God's spiritual essence will cover Him at the Second Coming. Therefore, God's glory will enter the "Gate of Mercy" at the same time He enters the gate. It is in this context that Ezekiel wrote these words:
"...this gate shall be shut, and it shall not be opened..." (Ezekiel 44:2)
Ezekiel wrote this prophecy in the 6th century B.C.
—About 600 years later, Jesus entered Jerusalem through the East Gate, riding on the back of a donkey. This is a scholarly deduction based upon Luke's account (Luke 19:28-48.) Furthermore, since Mt. Calvary is located outside of the Mercy Gate, it is evident that they took Christ to Golgotha through this gate. Thus the "prince" had "entered by the porch of that gate" and went out "by way of the same" (Ezekiel 44:3)
—Almost 2,000 years after this prophecy was written, the Gate of Mercy was permanently sealed. In the year 1543, Arabs under the direction of Sultan Suleiman "the Magnificent" walled up the gate with block and mortar. Since that time, the Gate of Mercy has never been opened.
Sultan Suleiman "the Magnificent" was the leader of the Ottoman Empire, and a member of the Muslim religion. Muslims obviously have no desire to convert anyone to Judaism. Yet, a Muslim fulfilled a Hebrew prophecy. In fact, it appears that Sultan Suleiman may have sealed this gate to prevent the Messiah's return:
"The gate is located in the middle of the eastern side of the Temple Mount. The portal in this position was believed to have been used for ritual purposes in biblical times. In Jewish tradition this is the gate through which Messiah will enter Jerusalem. It was sealed off in 1541 by Muslims, allegedly to prevent his entrance. The Muslims also built a cemetery in front of the gate, allegedly in the belief that the Messiah would not be able to pass through without risk of impurifying himself." From: Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. www.wikipedia.org)
"The Golden Gate, also facing east, is called in Hebrew and Arabic the "Gate of Mercy". According to Jewish tradition, this is the gate through with the Messiah will enter Jerusalem. To prevent the Messiah's entry, the Arabs sealed the gate several centuries ago." From: Israel: Jerusalem, Countries of the World, 01-01-1991 Embassy of Israel, Washington DC. and Jerusalem Within the Walls. Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
When Sultan Suleiman sealed the Gate of Mercy, he unwittingly fulfilled a Jewish prophecy. An attempt to invalidate a Hebrew prophecy fulfilled it instead.
THE GATE IS RESERVED FOR THE PRINCE
Ezekiel stipulates that this gate is reserved for the "prince." "Prince" is a term used by the prophets for the son of David, the Messiah. For instance, the prophet Isaiah wrote:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)
The Messiah is Israel's "Prince." God has ordained that no one will be able to open the Gate of Mercy until this Prince returns. The fulfillment of this prophecy has proven to be miraculous. Since the time Sultan Suleiman sealed the Gate of Mercy (in 1543), it has remained sealed year after year. Throughout all the years of violence, wars, and foreign occupations, no one has opened this gate.
http://www.testimonyofprophecy.com/pr001b.html
4This took place to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
5"Say to the Daughter of Zion,
'See, your king comes to you,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.' "
6The disciples went and did as Jesus had instructed them. 7They brought the donkey and the colt, placed their cloaks on them, and Jesus sat on them. 8A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, while others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. 9The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted,
"Hosanna to the Son of David!"
"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"
"Hosanna in the highest!"
--Mat 21
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
http://www.wequanta.com//tabernacles.html
Don't forget to check the other articles...
Fitting that an Islamic ruler should seal the gate of mercy. Edifying post, Molly :goodpost:
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(2Co 4:3-4)
Mat 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be."
For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"-- and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
(2Pe 1:16-21)
:cloud9: Hi.....this is something pertaining to Tabernacles the Lord gave me, that I wrote for my FB notes a few months back. I'm adding it here for obvious reasons. Blessings.....
Greetings.....this is a partial writing on revelation pertaining to the spiritual aspects of the Feast of Tabernacles. For clarity, please read "What About New Age?" note, before reading this.
He's making us a feast of FAT things. Fat things = those that have not allowed Him to circumcise their hearts by the processing of the work that is inherent in Passover and Pentecost. This is why the fat was an offering only for God the Father, and why we were told not to eat the fat of an animal in dietary laws (aside from making you sick).
Fat is above what is needed; as oil that has congealed, not flowing, LAID UP. It's not flowing because they have refused to go through the fire. Father allows us to receive the laid up riches in the others, as quickened revelation, if we submit to the fire. This is why the one who had one talent and did nothing with it but laid it up, his talent was given to the one who profited.
Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
Psalm 63:5 My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness; and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips: 6 When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.
This "fat" is representative of the wisdom of the Spirit which is Christ, that is hidden in the darkness of the uncircumcised of heart. This "fat" cannot be a light without the fire of the Holy Ghost consuming it. Uncircumcised ones, meaning those that have the wheat and the tares together still, that must still go thru the cleansing fire of the Holy Ghost.
Interestingly, the word for fatness in Psalm 63 above, literally means, "FAT ASHES, of blessing, of fertility", and comes from another root word meaning, "to anoint, to make fat, to prosper, to fatten oneself (of Jehovah's sword)". He gives us beauty (Christ's wisdom and nature) for ashes, fattens us with the sword, the Word of God, prospering our souls.
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. 2 And AFTER SIX DAYS Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an HIGH MOUNTAIN APART by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining , exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Mark 9:36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms , he said unto them, 37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
Psalm 66:10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. 11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins. 12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place. 13 I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows, 14 Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken , when I was in trouble. 15 I will offer unto thee burnt sacrifices of fatlings, with the incense of rams; I will offer bullocks with goats. Selah.
In the HARVEST, He will send His angels and they will GATHER (Tabernacles is called the Feast of Ingathering) up out of His Kingdom all things which offend and do iniquity, the tares which are then cast into the fire, Matt. 13. Fat is unappealing to look at, and does not appeal to the lust of the eyes, so many will not humble themselves to receive "meat" from the hand of the Lord from that which they consider to be "unclean".
The sheet that Peter saw had to be raised three times, the feast of Tabernacles is the third of the three main feasts. These unclean carnal beastly natures are being cleansed for us in this hour, that we eat the life of the Spirit hidden in the darkness of the flesh.
Without THIS FIRE being the one to do it, trying to consume this fat is as offering up strange fire, which is what you see happening to those that think it's ok to consume other things outside the Word, APART FROM THE LEADING OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD.
With the Spirit leading, no harm can come, for the tares are burned/consumed in the fire, REFINED in the refiner's fire, leaving the revelation which is hidden in the people, revealed by cleansing, distilled like wine. One of the best times of fellowship I have ever had, was with a Mormon, someone I would have never thought I could receive anything from.
But because the Lord's fire was present to consume the offering, what was of Christ's wisdom ascended as the smoke (cloud) of the offering, while the rest was dross. For our ashes He gives us beauty, the beauty of the only begotten Son. It's the same as refining gold, where the dross (doctrines without life) is consumed, but the gold (higher nature of God revealed, ie. revelations of the Word that IS life and Spirit) is retained.
John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him. 2 Now the Jews' FEAST OF TABERNACLES was at hand. 3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest . 4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world. 5 For neither did his brethren believe in him. 6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready. 7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil. 8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come. 9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. 10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were IN SECRET.
Isa 45:3 -And I will give thee the TREASURES OF DARKNESS, and HIDDEN RICHES OF SECRET PLACES, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
As I said, these treasures of darkness and hidden riches are none other than the wealth of the WICKED laid up (RESERVED IN HEAVEN/Christ IN them) for the just (those of the priesthood that are pressing in to celebrate this feast). Carnally minded man thought that this scripture dealt with physical riches (and that will follow), but the TRUE RICHES are things that be of Christ and the Father.
Starting with the above, the feast He went to IN SECRET in this passage, was literally the feast of Tabernacles.....and so too does He do this thing in secret with us spiritually, because it is unobservable, unlike Passover and Pentecost, and is typified by the fact the High Priest went in ALONE into the Holy of Holies.
Job 12:22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
1Ki 8:12 Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that he would dwell in the thick darkness.
God hid Himself in the last place man would ever think to look......IN MAN.
Da 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
2Sa 22:12 And he MADE DARKNESS PAVILLIONS ROUND ABOUT HIM, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.
The interesting thing about the word pavillions there, is that it is the same word translated booth or tabernacle elsewhere. He is saying He dwells in the darkness of the tabernacles. Know ye not ye are the temple of the living God?
Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: IF I MAKE MY BED IN HELL, BEHOLD, THOU ARE THERE.
Hell is separation from God, and there are many walking around that are in "hell" in this hour, and there is no greater darkness than that, yet HE is there. The lake of fire is that which the things that have us bound is cast into. As we are becoming one with Him who is a consuming fire, and He causes the "fat" to flow and give off light (understanding/revelation of Christ), we become that lake of fire that is used to bring the treasures hidden in the darkness, to light.
Psalm 139:9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 YEA, THE DARKNESS HIDETH NOT FROM THEE; BUT THE NIGHT SHINETH AS THE DAY: THE DARKNESS AND THE LIGHT ARE BOTH ALIKE TO THEE.
The reason they are alike is because He has hidden treasures in the darkness, hidden things of Christ, the true light. This is why the 7th day in Genesis was light. It wasn't because there was no darkness, but rather that the darkness had been swallowed up or covered over of light.
The ark of the covenant bears this witness, with the tablets of the law that were covered over by the mercy seat. The law ministered condemnation which ministered death to the hearer (the flesh), because of sin.
If you put a lid on a box, it's immediately DARK in there, and the ark was essentially a wooden box overlaid within and without with gold. The ark of the covenant also represents man as an overcomer with two anointings, one within (inner court) and one without (outer court), and a crown (mercy seat). To he that overcometh, will I give a CROWN of life. He sees those things that are not, as though they were.
This whole process those that ARE pressing in to partake of the Feast of Tabernacles, ties in with the bones Ezekiel saw.
Bones without meat on them = first veil of our flesh laid down. (earth shaken)
DRY bones=those that have laid down the Christ veil of His flesh, because Spirit is water/life of them. (heaven shaken).
This is why He has "dried up" many in this hour, just as He dried up the river for Elijah to make him move on. We have to lay down all the giftings, titles, ministries, ect. at His feet, to receive more. We must become those DRY bones, before He will clothe us with His glory. He took on the likeness of sinful flesh, and was made of no reputation, and those that are pressing into for the prize of the high calling in Christ Jesus, are expected to do the same. The servant is not greater than the master.
This is why He goes into unto this feast IN SECRET, because it begins as a sovereign work one on one with Him. Don't expect anyone to understand, unless they are going through it themselves. It looks bad, not pleasant to the lust of the eyes at all. It makes you look like a reprobate, having been called out of the churches, laying everything down. It also doesn't feel good to the lust of the flesh to be singled out as "backslidden", "reprobate", ect., to be made of no reputation. But the difference between the 60 fold and the 100 fold is 40 years on the backside of the desert, being led by Him and Him alone.
So what happens after we have been stripped of our flesh and laid down His flesh to become as dry bones? This is where He makes "fat" our bones. He puts the glorified word/flesh back on them, ie. that which has been thru the fire. Bread must be both pierced and baked to be fit to feed the nations.
They SHALL PICK UP serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing it will not hurt them.
When God told Moses to CAST DOWN His rod of authority = veil of Christ's flesh as it pertains to coming outside the camp and dying, ie. laying down of all, it then took on the IMAGE OF SINFUL FLESH, but it CONSUMED the serpent natures of the uncircumcised Egyptians.
This principle was also illustrated by God telling Joseph to take the Christ child and hide Him in Egypt (a type of the image of sinful flesh), that He might grow and mature in the things of His Father. He also told them to keep Him there until Herod was dead. Herod is a type of the carnal mind. "Herod" is seeking to kill all sons that are 2 years (2 days/2000 years) and under (Pentecost and Passover realms) right now, which is why we must obey the Father and get out of Bethlehem.
Bethlehem comes from two Hebrew words, Beyth and lechem, ie. house and bread. More on this in another note, but staying in the house of bread/letter, and not moving as the Spirit says move in this hour, is allowing Herod, the carnal mind in type, to rule and we must take on the mind of Christ and allow Him to finish the work in us.
Matthew 2: 12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. 13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word : for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14 When he arose , he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: 15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. 16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.
And then the Lord God told Him to pick the rod of authority back up, ie. after suffering with Him, we are glorified with Him = MIRACLES to set ALL creation free. He did His first miracle at Cana, which runs into word used in Psalms (I believe it was) that means "possessor of heaven and earth" ie. the ALmighty God, the Father God that is in our new heaven/glorified Christ AND our new earth/glorified body. This is why it says, God was IN Christ reconciling all men unto Himself.
This rod of Moses, ties in with the PICKING UP (catching up) of the TWELVE BASKETS OF FRAGMENTS = 12 tribes of humanity He "fragmented" Himself in, after the 5 (grace ministered thru ministry of 5 fold) fishes and 2 loaves (witness of Son and Spirit together = inner court) dispensation has ENDED. It is time for the Father to come on the scene, and FULFILL the promise with HIMSELF. Blessings....
Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
Isaiah 25:6,7 is one of my favorite scriptures of all. Beautiful post.
But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, and we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:15-18)
The word of God is veiled. Only a broken and contrite heart allows the unveiling. May the Bridegroom find His Bride willing to let Him lift her veil.
For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened(unveiled), so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe.
(Eph 1:15-19)
If we love Him we turn to Him and the veil is removed. If we love the world and the things that are in the world the veil remains.
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are lost, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
(2Co 4:3-6)
Oh My Lord God...... I feel as if I am about to soar. Your word is SO AWESOME!
Psa 43:3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
Let us go into His dwelling place; Let us worship at His footstool. Arise, O LORD, to Your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength. Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness, And let Your godly ones sing for joy. For the sake of David Your servant, Do not turn away the face of Your anointed.
(Psa 132:4-10)
:cloud9: AMEN
Not sure it really belongs in this thread:
http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/#Tabernacle (http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/#Tabernacle)
Click all the sub links because the patterns showed are :bgdance:
:cloud9: Interesting. Will read some more of this site when I have more time. Clicked on the "mirror" title, and that is a good description of my experience of seeing the cross, and then time backward and time forward "exploding" out of that. It would be like a mirror to each other. Thanks for the post...... :girlheart:
I have also seen this thing of time exploding backwards and forwards from the cross. The relationship between time and the eternal is sublime.
Just open the I gave. Don't scroll up or down (yet).
What you see now are Tabernacle related articles.
Just read the article about the size of the Temple curtain and you know what the articles is about.
Numbers like 1260 and 1320 pop up everywere in the Temple. But they also are the timespans between major events and prophesies.
Tabernacle = Temple of time
:2c:
Card, EW,
The year 0 is the mirror point. Things are mirrored backward in time. But does the mirror also works forward in time?
I once read the words, "Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever", and I saw this vision of the goodness of God behind me and before me, "For all things work to the good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose." The purpose is that we be conformed to the image of Christ. This is the goodness of God going on before me. Whenever a man turns to the Lord the veil is taken away, the kingdom of heaven comes within, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". "Repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, that you may receive times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord". He steps into the Now of God. He is living in the moment, the twinkling of an eye. "Today, if you hear His voice, harden not your heart. All that has gone before, though meant for evil, has worked for good. All that will come, will be the continuation of this good- as we "Abide in the Vine" and bear fruit that will remain- works prepared from the foundation of the world that we should walk in them.
If we get through the veil and we all live in that zero hour, the DAY approaches, drawing ever nearer to full noon, when all will shine with the glory of God. I think this is what was going on in the early church.
I think this is why the Lord exhorts us not to love the world and the things that are in the world. To be like the lily and the sparrow. To travel light. It is impossible to serve God and mammon because mammon takes us out of the Now and into the thorns and thistles that choke out the fruitfulness of the branches. Discipleship is surely more a discipline in lightness than it is a discipline of knowledge. Only within the unencumbered can the manifestation of truth grow beyond the "knowledge" of it.
The wind blows where it wills and you hear the sound of it and you don't know where it is going or from where it comes, so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 21, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
I have also seen this thing of time exploding backwards and forwards from the cross. The relationship between time and the eternal is sublime.
:cloud9: That's awesome, Eaglesway.....you're the first person I've met that has told me that. :thumbsup: It's hard to describe, isn't it?
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 21, 2010, 04:34:38 PM
Just open the I gave. Don't scroll up or down (yet).
What you see now are Tabernacle related articles.
Just read the article about the size of the Temple curtain and you know what the articles is about.
Numbers like 1260 and 1320 pop up everywere in the Temple. But they also are the timespans between major events and prophesies.
Tabernacle = Temple of time
:2c:
Card, EW,
The year 0 is the mirror point. Things are mirrored backward in time. But does the mirror also works forward in time?
:cloud9: I think it would have to. But what I saw was limited to scenes in the Word. It exploded so fast my mind was not able to catch and hold much of what was communicated to me about those scenes. It was as if it was a computer download. I knew it went into my spirit and would be retrievable (the Spirit will bring things to our REMEMBRANCE) as needed.
I felt my spirit actually spinning within me (whirlwind?) and I went to the floor. My one friend had the same thing going on, minus the "download". There were 5 of us in the glory of His presence for 5 hours; the others went face down. When it started, and I blurted out, "What's happening to us?", He spoke to me, "The priesthood is changing." I realized later it happened during Feast of Tabernacles that year. Blessings....
Quote from: eaglesway on October 21, 2010, 06:05:10 PM
I once read the words, "Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever", and I saw this vision of the goodness of God behind me and before me, "For all things work to the good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose." The purpose is that we be conformed to the image of Christ. This is the goodness of God going on before me. Whenever a man turns to the Lord the veil is taken away, the kingdom of heaven comes within, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". "Repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, that you may receive times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord". He steps into the Now of God. He is living in the moment, the twinkling of an eye. "Today, if you hear His voice, harden not your heart. All that has gone before, though meant for evil, has worked for good. All that will come, will be the continuation of this good- as we "Abide in the Vine" and bear fruit that will remain- works prepared from the foundation of the world that we should walk in them.
If we get through the veil and we all live in that zero hour, the DAY approaches, drawing ever nearer to full noon, when all will shine with the glory of God. I think this is what was going on in the early church.
I think this is why the Lord exhorts us not to love the world and the things that are in the world. To be like the lily and the sparrow. To travel light. It is impossible to serve God and mammon because mammon takes us out of the Now and into the thorns and thistles that choke out the fruitfulness of the branches. Discipleship is surely more a discipline in lightness than it is a discipline of knowledge. Only within the unencumbered can the manifestation of truth grow beyond the "knowledge" of it.
The wind blows where it wills and you hear the sound of it and you don't know where it is going or from where it comes, so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
:cloud9: Magnificent..... :thumbsup:
It is hard to express eternal things in the language of the fiinite....to see thru the veil of time and death. But before there was time. Before there was death. In the beginning, the thought in Gods mind was of a Lamb slain. I believe everything else- creation, chaos, redemption, reconciliation and restoration into the new creation- all proceed from that expression of love within which the invisible God spoke His love into the heart of every being. This elevates the cross to such an extent that its beauty overwhelms all else. I feel so inadequate in attempting to express it, but I try nevertheless, because all the wisdom and beauty of God's love and purpose are in it.
:cloud9: Amen..... :thumbsup:
Amen. The cross is eternal. He chose it. He never changes.
http://www.biblestudents.com/the_tabernacle.cfm
:cloud9: Wow....thanks, good reference site for the Tabernacle studies...... :HeartThrob: it...... :thumbsup:
Something for your Temple appetite
(http://www.pbnradio.com/news/images/2009-10-16_IT_PlansForTheTemple.jpg)
Most detailed Temple layout I could find.
Click here for a large picture and a 19 page article (http://www.pbnradio.com/news/code/displayIT.php?2009-10-17_THE_TEMPLE_MOUNT_-_PART_16)
Note it's part of a 19 page Temple article. Scroll down for the article menu.
(looks like there are big plans for a new Temple)
Bon appetit!
:cloud9: Thanks! Will check it out...... :thumbsup:
http://www.secret-evangel.site90.net/tabernacle_A.html
Another Tabernacle site.
Unfortunately most picture and charts don't load. :sigh:
(main siet: http://www.secret-evangel.site90.net/soundwords.htm)
http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/Tabernacle/tabernacle_temple-curtains.htm (http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/Tabernacle/tabernacle_temple-curtains.htm)
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
Tabernacle: Laden with Treasures
Moshe Ben-Chaim
On more than one occasion, I have heard sermons on these current Torah sections addressing the Tabernacle, where the Rabbi apologizes for its "dry nature" or his difficulty in presenting exciting ideas. The Jerusalem Talmud (Shviyis 2b) says as follows, "It [Torah] is not a vain matter from you". (Deut. 32:47) It is not vain, and if it is, then "from you" it is vain."
The Talmud addresses the usage of "from you" to mean this: Moses was teaching the Jews that if they view any part of Torah as vain or empty, it is due to their own shortcomings that they cannot see the gems within those verses. Let us now search for the exciting treasures in the Tabernacle!
In the opening chapter of Hilchos Bais Habechira, Maimonides says one of the essential principles governing the Temple 's construction is a room called the "Holy of Holies". Yet, in the very next law when listing the various vessels, the Ark – the centerpiece of this Holy of Holies – is glaringly absent from the list. How can the room be called a "essential principles" taking precedence over its centerpiece?
Even in chapter 4 when Maimonides touches upon the Ark, he focusses on the chambers where it was to be hidden upon the prophesied destruction of the Temple. And he does not focus on its measurements as he did regarding the other vessels. How do we explain this second omission? And why was the Ark alone hidden? No other vessel is hidden! What is this unique character belonging to the Ark alone?
Hilchos Klay Hamikdash chapter two addresses the incense. After formulating 11 laws governing this incense, Maimonides includes two final laws...concerning the carrying of the Ark! What are these two laws doing together with the incense? These two laws include restrictions of transporting the Ark via wagon or animal, and that it must me carried by man, with their faces towards the Ark, and not to remove its poles.
What's he meaning of the medrash that the Ark didn't occupy any measurement? Meaning, the Holy of Holies was 20 cubits square, yet if one measured from any side of the Ark to the wall, he measured 10 cubits. This means the Ark did not diminish space on this room. What is the need for such a miracle, and what is the lesson?
Maimonides states that the Ark rested upon the Evven Shesiyah (a stone) from which the formation of the Earth took place. Of what relevance is this stone to the Ark?
Exodus 30:36 says concerning the incense "...and you shall place of it in front of the Testimony (the Ark containing the Tablets of Testimony) in the Tabernacle where I meet you there..." The problem is that the incense altar is not in front of the Ark. It is furthest removed from it, and also, the Ark is behind the Parochess curtain . So in what manner is the incense burned "in front" of the Ark? I believe one answer addressees all of our questions.
Let us step back. Why did God command man to build the Tabernacle? Sforno teaches it was a response to the sin of the Gold Calf; a concession to man's nature. The Jews expressed an inability to relate to God purely abstractly. "Moshe, the man who took us out of Egypt, we know not what has happened to him" was said by the Jews before sculpting the Gold Calf. They were crippled by the loss of Moshe; a tangible relationship with God. Thus, they created the Calf as a replacement. God's response to this sin was to offer man a highly structured approach to his religious life...intended to prevent another Gold Calf catastrophe. The Temple is replete with laws governing each move the Priests make. There exists no room for man to outlet his religious emotions, as expressed when creating the Calf. He must conform to God's will and not imagine he knows how to approach God.
Thus, the centerpiece of Tabernacle is the Ark, an object housing the Law, which reflects God's wisdom. But this law is in a room – the Holy of Holies – which is off-limits. No one may ever enter, lest he suffer death, save the high priest on Yom Kippur. The purpose of this restriction parallels the restriction upon the Jews to ascend Mount Sinai at Revelation. Man must demonstrate that God is "unapproachable" or unknowable. Those who feel they can approach God, or feel there is something tangible about the Creator, forfeit their lives, as seen in Ahron's two sons who were killed for approaching God without being commanded; the Jews during the Gold Calf event; and the Jews who opened the Ark upon its return from the Philistines.
I addition to this room's restriction, God commanded us in the daily incense. When the priest enters the Tabernacle, he is first confronted with the incense altar. Although spatially distanced from the Ark and separated by a curtain, ideationally the incense cloud is to create a veil between us and God; between the priest and the Ark. In this sense, the incense is "in front" of the Ark. It is amazing how the verse indicates this central concept.
Now, although the design of the Tabernacle indicates a veil between man and God, simultaneously we must never lose focus of a life of searching out God; a life pursuing wisdom. Therefore, the carrying of the Ark on man's shoulders, facing it, and not placing it on wagons or animals all target one idea: we must never lose focus of our primary objective...the pursuit of God's wisdom. These two ideas – God's unapproachable nature and wisdom as life's focus – are two sides of one coin, and appropriately joined in Maimonides' laws of Klay Hamikdash. The laws of incense and carrying the Ark belong together, for it is in the transport of the Ark that one might view it as luggage or dormant. Not so. Wisdom is to be engaged at all times. The Ark is to be viewed and cared for at all times. We must never lose focus of God's wisdom or treat it lightly, as in transporting the Ark on wagons or animals.
This also explains why King Solomon commanded the Ark be stored in hiding. It is not something that man can approach. No other vessel was meant to teach this lesson, so no others were hidden upon the Temple's destruction. Perhaps also, the Holy of Holies is formulated as primary to the Tabernacle, and not the Ark. For it is the concept of "restricted area" that intends to convey our ignorance of God's nature. In that law (Bais Habechira 1:5) Maimonides also includes the laws of creating a courtyard around the Tabernacle, for this too intends to limit one's approach. So it is the approach that is the central lesson, not the object of the approach.
Maimonides omits the Ark in his listing of all the vessels in Tabernacle. This could be due to the fact that the Ark is not utilitarian. A "vessel" on the other hand is used, as were the altars, the Table and the Menorah. Therefore, Ark is simply not considered a vessel. But the Ark had to be made, so why does Maimonides omit mentioning the Ark's measurements, unlike the other vessels? A friend suggested the Ark was the one vessel made only once, therefore in his book of laws for all generations – the Mishneh Torah – Maimonides does not include laws about its creation. That is a one-time occurrence, not a perpetual law. However, I have no confirmation that this is true and welcome your sources.
What's he meaning of the medrash that the Ark didn't occupy any measurement? Meaning, the Holy of Holies was 20 cubits square. Yet if one measured from any side of the centrally-located Ark and to any wall, he measured 10 cubits. This means the Ark did not diminish space on this room. What is the need for such a miracle, and what is the lesson?
Perhaps this teaches that wisdom is not of this world. Yes, it is reflected in all of God's creations, but the physical world is a "result" of that metaphysical wisdom, and not a "location" of wisdom. The fact the Ark did not take up measurable space makes it akin to wisdom, directing us to this further realization or a world of wisdom "outside" Earthly confines.
Finally, the Ark rested upon the Evven Shesiyah – Earth's the formation stone. This relationship teaches the purpose of the Earth. Without man's pursuit of wisdom – what Ark represents – the Earth fails in its purpose. The Earth's very formation, inhabitable by humans, enables the existence of the lone creature that can perceive God.
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
This article shows that Solomon's Temple measurement represent time. 1000 years, 6000 years, 7000 years.
http://webpages.charter.net/defender/FIRST_TEMPLE_25.pdf
(http://www.sonstoglory.com/images/EzekielsTempleFloorplansSanctuary.jpg)
(http://www.sonstoglory.com/images/EzekielsTempleFloorplansGateways.jpg)
(http://www.sonstoglory.com/images/EzekielsTempleFloorplansAltar.jpg)
(http://www.sonstoglory.com/images/EzekielsTempleFloorplansPriestsChambers.jpg)
http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm
:cloud9: Both the tabernacle and the temple contain timelines..... :thumbsup:
We have a faithful high priest who entered "once for all" within the veil, by the offering of His own blood, who ever lives to make intercession for us, that we might have "bold access" through the NEW and LIVING WAY! :bgdance: :HeartThrob: :myahoo: :egyptdance: :Egyptdance2: :boogie: :boydance: :hithere: :banana: :dsunny:
He made known to us the mystery of His will,
according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to
an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth
Behold I am making ALL THINGS NEW!
Quote from: eaglesway on August 24, 2011, 03:56:01 PM
We have a faithful high priest who entered "once for all" within the veil, by the offering of His own blood, who ever lives to make intercession for us, that we might have "bold access" through the NEW and LIVING WAY! :bgdance: :HeartThrob: :myahoo: :egyptdance: :Egyptdance2: :boogie: :boydance: :hithere: :banana: :dsunny:
He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth
Behold I am making ALL THINGS NEW!
:icon_flower: :smile:
Amen!! And love those smileys !!!
:myahoo:
:cloud9: WW, I finally had a chance to re-read that article above and when I got to the part about the miracle of the measurement, and before I got to their explanation, it hit me it had to be suspended in the air in there!
And THAT explains the counterfeit of flesh that the demons are so preoccupied with, ie. levitation of MEN. I've always wondered what this manifestation of evil power was communicating, since all Satan can do is mimic, and now I know. Wow.
What I love about the way God does things (one of the many things I love) is how He even has His enemy "set up" to be a sort of witness to what He does, through mimicry. It is impossible not to see HIM if you are looking for Him, in EVERYTHING. Blessings....
it's in a hiiden chamber called the 'golden attic" shekinah... signifying mind of Christ/God..and us in His presence when we see Him
face to face....write in our hearts and mind.
I became a new member of the forum today. I am so very pleased that there is a discussion of the Tabernacle, because I have studied it for years and find it so fascinating. I will be posting on this topic from time to time myself. I hope it remains.'
In my opinion, we do not need some man like Calvin's systematic theology when we have the Tabernacle in the Old Testament and its fulfillment in the New. All the truth is bound up in the type of an earthly structure and the antitype of a MAN, the true Tabernacle (or temple) of God. :dsunny:
Quote from: maryc on September 17, 2014, 03:36:10 AM
I became a new member of the forum today. I am so very pleased that there is a discussion of the Tabernacle, because I have studied it for years and find it so fascinating. I will be posting on this topic from time to time myself. I hope it remains.'
In my opinion, we do not need some man like Calvin's systematic theology when we have the Tabernacle in the Old Testament and its fulfillment in the New. All the truth is bound up in the type of an earthly structure and the antitype of a MAN, the true Tabernacle (or temple) of God. :dsunny:
:thumbsup: The true tabernacle , the house not made with hands , whom the master builder is God found in Jesus Christ
and He makes the lively stones and builds them up upon one another in Love He done laid his life down being the Main /first corner Stone
1Peter 2 His testimony /witness by Holy Spirit of the good news revealing making interesting or significant information known, especially about a JESUS CHRIST attitude and character , reveling , great pleasure from a situation or experience of Knowing Him .
4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men,
but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE
, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED
Quote from: Nathan on February 27, 2009, 10:01:42 PM
If you want to understand Christ . .the blueprint is in the tabernacle. It was located in the center of Israel's camp because that's where one's heart is . . .God wanted to be Israel's heart. In the spirit, there is neither Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female . ..we are grafted "back" into the tree of life through our relationship with Christ."
:cloud9: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I just want to paste the things which MOST struck a chord with me.. If no one minds.. This thread is a great study and I'm given to things like summaries and outlines.. main points, etc.. :smile:
"An assembly line of death"
..makes me think also of the reality of "death" as non-life and the very real potential that God our Father, I believe is showing to every rational creature, to know that we know that we know that He is LiFe itself.. and also Perfection (what else is possible?) But the thing is with rationality/thinking ability, comes sooner or later, the ability to make choices (even when of such a very limited range). But, to choose any thing in thought, word or deed (the 3) that differs from what HE chooses, is to become imperfect, the opposite of life. It doesn't work. It cannot work. It can never work. Imperfect dies, fades.. Is mortal, cannot endure..
"Hebrews 10 tells us the pattern of spiritual things is the tabernacle pattern. The outer court was where basically anyone could be in the presence of the Lord, albeit from a distance. Women (souls), all Israel, and even strangers (today would be like Hindus, Muslims, ect.) as well as ANYONE who has not had the baptism of the Spirit, the outward anointing, including (and listed SOLELY based on their doctrinal beliefs that exclude the baptism of the Spirit ie. Pentecost, as do the first groups mentioned also), such as Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, ect. "
:gimmefive: in the world, the trampling of the court..
"He is within this holy tent; the tabernacle of God, burning with love for all mankind, and ready to comfort the afflicted." ...The wind tore through the trees with an anguish that tears the heart, as the veil was torn!
these feasts are fulfilled in us spiritually
Passover - forgiven -- Pentecost - baptism w/ Spirit -- Tabernacles - dwell (rest, each person as temple/stone of His temple/He all in all)
it's all for the reproducing of Christ in us and others.
much like the space shuttle . . . in order to get it into the outer atmosphere, they attached temporary boosters to it . .but once it leaves our atmosphere, the boosters are no longer needed so they detach themselves and fall away.. ...boosters that assist us to enter into the holy of holies . .into the kingdom Jesus spent so much time trying to explain . ...enter into a realm of rest ... and "function" as gates . . . through which others can enter into the kingdom as well..
The lampstand illuminates the ..bread ..The candlestick was created out of one solid chunk of Gold, it was pounded and pounded until it began to take shape and become a magnifisent work of hand-crafted art that formed a lampstand, a holder of the flames ...the illumination of the bread then leads to the third piece and that is the altar of incense . . .
There sure are treasures hidden in all this. ....It's like a message from home.
Peter . .of all people . . this rugged, short fused, narrow-minded, stubborn, gruff man Peter got a kiss from the King and "saw" who Jesus was . .not because of his great ability to reason . . .but because God just simply uncovered the truth and revealed it to him.... The act of "revelation" . . ."revelating" is the rock that Christ is building on
No one really "believes" until the insight/revelation comes from within, or that is, comes "to them".. but this is aided (encouraged) by seeing the kingdom in others..
discern the fields that you enter . . .if they're ripe, then break out your sickle, if they are green, then hold your tongue . .there is a season for the planting and a season for the harvest. Can't plant a seed if their ground is froze solid . .and you can't harvest their field if they are still very green in their growth.
doesn't come by knowing "about" God . . .it comes by experiencing him "in" you
Jesus was aligning these disciples of his in such a way that they would get to the point to where they themselves could hear from God directly . . .which is what the Peter experience is all about. But there was a process that they had to be led through . . .it's the same with everyone . . .it's the same with the tabernacle . .the priest could not just waltz into the holy of hoiies whenever "he" chose . .there was a series of experiences he first had to accomplish . ..salvation is simply the first step . . .and just because one is in ministry does not qualify one to experience personal revelation . . . it isn't until we enter into the "realm" of rest that we can see and accomplish the work of Christ from a position of rest . . .
...ever utilize "Earth Google"? It's astounding how you can literally drop in on someones back yard from the air. The first picture you see is the globe . . .as you zoom in, you're still seeing the same globe, but the closer you get, the more detailed your picture becomes. It has many advantages to that . . but the disadvantage is . .the closer you get to your target, the less you can see of the bigger picture. And that's the mystery of the spirit . .another mystery . . .when you're in the spirit, it magnifies the details of God's nature . .while at the same time, you still can see the over all picture . . .kind of like seeing the end from the beginning . . .
. .the laver, the basin that was used to "wash" to "cleanse" the priest . . .it's what washes "you". Again, it's connected to the lake of fire and they both serve the exact same purpose. God's cleansing fire is used to purge and to cleanse . .the laver was used to wash the blood . . . the result of the sin offerings . .washed, purified and cleansed the priests . . .the order he's established for ALL who come through the east gate . . .which is the entrance to the temple . . .by passing through Judah, the tribe that sets at the east gate . . Judah means praise remember . . .to even enter into the tabernacle, you must come "in" praise as you offer up your sacrifice (of praise) to the Lord as he releases you from the bonds of sin . . .sin removed, mind must then be purified through the baptism of water, spirit . .and fire . . .Christ is the ultimate sacrifice . . . he is also the laver. The word washes . .he is the Word. He purges and cleanses the imagry and idolatry from your mind as it's renewed in the baptism of spirit
The more you advance toward the holy of holies, the more pure the articles are. It was brass in the outer court . .the boundary of the tabernacle was outlined by a 6 foot high canvas and the posts supporting the temple were inserted into footings made of silver . . .which is connected to redemption. But in the Holy of holies . .it was all gold. Because the candlestick was not wood overlaid with gold, but solid gold, that depicted it represents Christ . . .and here in Revelation it's clearly seen that Christ is the one holding the churches . .as the bread is illuminated "through" us . . . Just how true is our light that illuminates the bread?
14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. ..
Head and hair . . .mind and thoughts . . .pure . .white . . .as wool . . a sheeps covering. Interesting that his eyes, tongue and feet were of fire. The word of life ignites us . . .the eyes don't see death, only life, just his very gaze purifies the hearts of those he loves. Okay . . .feet like fine brass . . .that's the same material the altar of sacrifice is made of . . .as if burned in a furnace . . what does the heat of a furnace do to metal? Does it not bring up the dross to the surface and purify the metal? The purpose of the altar of sacrifice is the same as the laver . .the same as the lake of fire . .it's to purify the people IN PREPARATION for them to enter into the tabernacle . . .to enter into God's house . . .to enter into GOD.
I think this is where if you don't give out, and become stagnant, revelation comes less and less, because (from His point of view) what is the purpose if it's not going to be shared with the body to edify? Got to put those talents to good use, else He will take them and give them to the one who already is using them. Blessings....
The light which lights every man that comes into the world is in control always. Even though I use my God given powers to rebel and become as dead... "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty"
Up to this point, there were 5 articles in the tabernacle that were ministered to . . . the altar of sacrifice, the introduction into the temple . . .the laver . . .the baptism in preparation for ministry . . .the candlestick . . .which illuminates light . .the table of shewbread . .which consists of 12 loaves . . .representing God's established government engaging with the 12 tribes of Israel and also Christ as he is the bread of life . .this is his government being established in the temple of worship. And the fifth is the altar of incense . . .praise and worship and prayers of the saints.
a footstool and in the footnotes, it stated that the actual definition was "house of rest" and I realized that the footstool under God's feet is a postion and picture of rest . . .that God would make all of David's enemies his footstool is saying that Rest is coming to the house of David . . .and when God says the "earth" is his footstool . . .it's saying the same thing about the earth
the best I've seen in connection with people being baptized for the dead . .
..also, I heard or read somewhere that it was an Old Testament (Judean) practice
we can see how the inner court (realm of Christ) is like a bridge or a ladder, between man and God, with "angels" (priests) ascending (to Holy of Holies) and descending (to outer court).
the veil ripped from top . . .to bottom . .with purpose, on purpose. ...as Paul so brazenly states, we can now go "boldly" to the throne . . .we don't have to tie a rope to our feet in fear of death while approaching the source of life. Our worthiness has been made complete through the blood of the Lamb. . slain from the foundation of the world . . .which tells me that the death that occured 2,000 years ago was only a physical manifestion of what was already completed in the spirit LONG, LONG AGO..
to my way of thinking - built/designed (purposed) from before creation
5 elements in the tabernacle lead up to where we are now, beholding the ark itself. This truly is a Grace walk ordained and appointed unto man by God. Each step was a preparation for the next. And now, the two courts become one. The Holy of holies and the holy place are all one room. This is Zechariah 4 all over again. The two cherub that rest above the ark 'on' the mercy seat . . .what a great picture that is. the two witnesses, the two anointed ones that stand before God . . .Christ and the Holy Spirit peering across each other "eye to eye" . . .that's actually why "two or more" is relevant here. ..The "agree on any one thing . . ." is actually saying that when two can see eye to eye. It's the same with Isaiah's misused and abuse passage of coming together to "reason". It is not men trying to reason with men, but it is God challenging us to reason wth "him". It's more of an alignment .. . coming to see "eye to eye" with light and life so our vision can be healed. The fact that it's called a mercy "seat" tells me to things . .one, it speaks of rest . .but this entire room wreaks of the message of rest . . .but also . . . the "seat" speaks of authority.
The ark of God comes in two pieces . . .one is the mercy seat . .the other is the ark itself that contains the three elements. For me, I see this to be a picture of the Father and Son . . .the nature of God is law, manna and life . . .the nature of Christ is . . .mercy. The room itself is where the Spirit fits in . . .10x10x10 . . .dimensions of the reign of rest. The more we mature in him, the more we realize it's his work being done in us, not us at all. Jesus rests in the Father, just as the mercy seat rests on the ark. .. May we get our crowbars and tear down our ox carts that we made according to our own reasoning and take up the extended authority of God and be led by the spirit rather than our own limited understanding and imagery.
"The life flows in the blood, filling the chambers of the heart and mind."
To establish that throne of MERCY in the innermost of you is what is His purpose in calling you to Himself. Mercy in Hebrew chesed is the earnest passion to meet the need, the drive to fulfill. It is covenantal love in action. In Greek it is charis grace, the result of having been filled full. The manifest presence of God, the Glory...rests on the Mercy!
reminded me of something the Lord told my friend once. He told her that He wanted her heart to be like a beanbag! She said, "Beanbag, Lord, what do you mean by that?"
He said that it was because a beanbag was soft and pliable and able to be molded into the shape of the One who sat and rested upon it. When He is finished with us, our heart becomes His throne, and He rests from His labors in us. Blessings....
"he was willing to kill HER HUSBAND to do it (have her)." ...this very same thing (not literally), but figuratively because of my flesh being weak. ..Think of it - even we being people after God's heart can still fall to the desires of our flesh which is weak. - Anne
about the tabernacle and growing in grace.
"And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them." Exodus 25:8
"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:3 ..In the holy of holies was the ark of the covenant. The mercy seat corresponds to the heart of man, where the blood is applied and the Spirit comes to dwell. "having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil consciousness...." ...
The acacia box was gilded, man adorned by the divine nature, corresponding to the soul, that is being transformed through the renewing of the mind, converted by the kindness, discipline and revelation of God. Within it was the testimony of God.....thus it was called the ark of testimony...Above it were the cherubim, wings outstretched, corresponding to the spirit of man. All this corresponding to the pattern of the heavens, wheels within wheels, the tabernacle of God is with men."Holy Holy Hoy Lord god Almighty who was and is and is to come." ..We have not received a spirit of fear, but of power(cherubim), love(mercy seat) and a sound mind(acacia box). ..At the entrance is the bronze laver, sitting atop of the bronze bulls. The entry to the holy place requires acceptance of progressive sanctification(the bronze sea) through submission of the will(oxen)
CONSIDER: About 2,500 years ago, Ezekiel foresaw the future of the Temple Mount. The prophet wrote that the East Gate of the Temple Mount would be sealed, and remain sealed until the "prince" comes. ..About 2,000 years later, a Muslim sealed the east gate with blocks and mortar. This same gate has remained closed for almost 500 years. ..EZEKIEL 44:1-3 ..After Ezekiel had this vision, he wrote that the East Gate will be sealed because: "the LORD God had entered in by it" (44:2). This vision describes God's Spiritual essence entering the gate. According to Jesus, God's glory will cover Him when He returns
Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
We have a faithful high priest who entered "once for all" within the veil, by the offering of His own blood, who ever lives to make intercession for us, that we might have "bold access" through the NEW and LIVING WAY!
it's in a hiiden chamber called the 'golden attic" shekinah... signifying mind of Christ/God..and us in His presence when we see Him.. face to face....write in our hearts and mind.
type of an earthly structure and the antitype of a MAN, the true Tabernacle (or temple) of God.
4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED
Great study! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: these were the main points that were a blessing but of course the whole thread is very good!!
:cloud9: Amen, Nate was/is gifted at explaining it. I miss him..... :sigh:
Quote from: Cardinal on February 28, 2009, 06:29:44 AM
:cloud9: Good stuff Nathan..... :thumbsup: I posted most of this I think before a long time back....., where I don't know. I'll try to add more as I am able.
:cloud9: Hebrews 10 tells us the pattern of spiritual things is the tabernacle pattern. The outer court was where basically anyone could be in the presence of the Lord, albeit from a distance. Women (souls), all Israel, and even strangers (today would be like Hindus, Muslims, ect.) as well as ANYONE who has not had the baptism of the Spirit, the outward anointing, including (and listed SOLELY based on their doctrinal beliefs that exclude the baptism of the Spirit ie. Pentecost, as do the first groups mentioned also), such as Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, ect.
They were and are, all in the same outer court realm. He has given ALL men a measure of faith to receive Him and this is that realm. He is in all, but all do not yet know it, or Him. This is why all received the same wages whether or not they had been there all day (more light) or one hour (less light). This is the realm of soulish fleshly works. This portion of the tabernacle had no covering over it, so if the people in that realm looked up into the heavenlies or at heavenly things, they saw only a LITERAL heavenly host, ie. sun, moon and stars. They are still governed over by the letter, the natural "host", still eating of the wrong tree. He concluded ALL under sin.
This is the realm of the inner anointing, the salvation of the Spirit, ie. the spirit returns to the One that sent it. This is Christ in you, ie. He subjected the same in hope, Christ in you, the hope of glory. This is the realm of the brazen altar, where the works of the flesh are dealt with thru the dying to self. It had a veil between it and the next realm also, which veil is "rent" by dying to self works. It is the water baptism realm, ie. being baptized into the likeness of His death. Reckon yourselves DEAD. This is the passover realm. If we partake of the eating of the Lamb, we pass from death into life.
:cloud9: The inner court realm is the realm of the priesthood. The priestly tribe that was chosen by God Himself, could get a little closer to the God that had created all. A peculiar (means chosen) people, a priestly nation, ie. He would that they were ALL priests. This is the realm of the golden candlestick, representative of the light we receive from the outward baptism of the Spirit, ie. being baptized INTO the Spirit which is Christ, He becomes our covering, and this is why the commandment came that women (the soul/flesh) must have a covering, so as not to be "naked" and ashamed. The Spirit of Christ, which IS the Holy Ghost, is that covering of the women (soul/flesh).
This is the glory, the life of the Spirit that begins to consume the corruption that has made us take on another glory/image. As we have born the image of the natural (outer court, Christ in you), so too we will bear the image of the spiritual (inner court, you in Christ). Just as women, strangers, and all Israel were not allowed to come into this court because they were not priests, so too does God make this distinction now, spiritually.
The priests were only allowed to wear linen to come into the inner court to serve God. Linen speaks of the righteousness that is by faith, the faith of the Spirit of Christ, not the measure of faith to receive Him, that is typified in the outer court realm of experience. The Spirit baptism is the beginning of "putting on" Christ, ie. He becomes our "linen garment". This is why it says that our righteousness (ie. without linen garment/Spirit of Christ covering us) is as filthy rags. That's the pattern and it is not subject to change as far as God is concerned.
This is the realm of the Spirit, and the works of the Spirit. The Holy Ghost does the works. This is the realm of Pentecost, and this is the second of 3 feasts that the Lord God commanded the children of Israel to partake of FOREVER. We were grafted into the olive tree, and as we have a spiritual covenant now, these feasts are fulfilled in us spiritually, but they did not end and they were not a suggestion, which is why those in the outer court realm I explained above have the option of ignoring the rest of the pattern, but they do so at a loss, as in those that go thru the fire suffer loss, but they are saved. He concluded all under sin, that thru His Spirit, He might have mercy upon all.
:cloud9: So, without going into the 3rd part of the Tabernacle in detail, the whole pattern looks like this......
These are just a FEW correlations between the courts and specific three part scriptures, the last time I did this I had around 30 for each of the courts; the Word (both OT and NT) is literally full of them because He can't do anything but express His nature......as above, so below.
OUTER COURT INNER COURT HOLY OF HOLIES
Jesus Christ Lord
faith hope charity
called justified glorified
His good will His acceptable will His perfect will
saved being saved shall be saved
milk bread + wine hidden manna (meat)
body soul spirit
female male neither male nor female
spirit salvation soul salvation body salvation (glorified body)
30 fold 60 fold 100 fold
babes young men mature sons
water baptism Spirit baptism fire baptism
letter of the Word Spiritual Word Risen Word
bud bloom fruit
wool linen coat of many colors/glory cloud
brass silver gold
waters below firmament firmament waters above firmament
Passover Pentecost Tabernacles
Christ in you You in Christ Lambkin on Mt.
death life life everlasting
In the beginning, The Word was with God, And the Word was God
was the Word (Emmanuel, God with us)
And Jesus (outer court/female) was the Word (inner court/male) made (one) flesh (Most Holy place). They are neither male nor female in heaven, not because they are neither one or the other, but because they are BOTH. The male (Spirit) has possessed His female (virgin soul). All flesh, therefore, is "female" to God initially (and therefore in the outer court realm, the court of the "women"), because His Spirit is the one that plants the Seed, ie. IS the Seed. The natural realm bears this witness, as always, as babies are all female until a certain point in their development within the womb. Blessings to all........
Just digging through the various posts and came across this one! I like it so I copied it and sent it to my e-mail to file and review occasionally. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I love that image of interpreting the temple pattern towards spiritual growth and the revelation of the children of God.
The only thing I wonder is.... it seems to me the outer court is male. There the word is, but it does not bear fruit until it is planted.....enters the holy place(female womb) coming out then as a mature fruit bearing child(neither male nor female) in the holy of holies(ministry of Christ).
:cloud9: I can see that pattern too, but I think in that, it's exclusive to Him. Remember the outer court held the court of the women and strangers to Israel could be there, too.
You can look at it as a pattern of humanity, or as a pattern of His body, literally, and as I know you know, even a timeline of history, past, present and future. It leaves NOTHING out. Any question I have ever had, could be "assigned" to one of the 3 courts.
A vision of Him laying down in the Tabernacle 30 years ago, is what prompted me to study it in the first place. I was astonished as He brought to mind scriptures that corresponded to my understanding. Blessings...
One of the signs for the Kingdom appearing on earth is "The tabernacle of God will be with men"...this revealing of the mystery of the tabernacle opens an infinite spiritual river flowing within our minds. After forty years of "interest" in the tabernacle as a pattern of earth and the divine being joined, about seven years ago it came to me to use this pattern as a seven step progression of meditation offering a deep and contemplative experience to anyone entering its mystery. It continues to daily release revelation and wisdom as I use this pattern to enter His presence within my physical body. This subject is not understood with intellect, but revealed by spirit. I am a
working artist and put together an art show to give a general invitation to meditate and behold the beauty of the Lord...feel fee to watch the video of the tabernacle mediation art show at vimeo.com/channels/tabernaclemeditation We need no man to teach us, but the spirit guides us into truth...this is the place spirit will speak, from within our own beings/mind. The living tabernacle of God made without hands.
once again either google... tabernacle meditation or go to vimeo.channels/tabernaclemeditation enjoy
:cloud9: AMEN yes it is. Will check out your video.....welcome to the board..... :dsunny:
:cloud9: Must have done something wrong. It led me to this thread on here. :Chinscratch:
Cardinal...Sorry you couldn't find the tabernacle meditation art show...again it is www.vimeo/channels/tabernaclemeditation
also I put an audio sample of how to use the tabernacle pattern to meditate...that is at www.sigler.org/klassen just click the audio meditation ...it takes about an hour to go through the seven pieces of furniture...I usually meditate in a dark room using deep breathing and allowing the power within the tabernacle to come alive within..there is no "one way" to use it..just be still and let it come alive.
It will take you into a heavenly realm...enjoy
:cloud9: Thanks for reposting it. You know we are to become one with the 7 pieces of furniture in there. We experience every part of it walking in the Spirit with Him. Blessings....