Eternal???

[Gracewalker1985]

 :dunno:
So please bear with me, I'm completely new to the forum and the subject of UR. I have vigorously been searching this topic out for a little under a year now. With many tears as I've felt maybe like I was being deceived, all the while feeling very disillusioned with the traditional outlooks of popular christianity. I love Jesus so much, and desperately just want the truth; all of it! I am one who has always questioned interpretations, even my own when it comes to the scriptures. I guess I will start with asking about the word "eternal," and the implications thereof. I have found that through looking into this particular word in the greek and hebrew, has left me with even more questions than before I started to look. I'm also finding that even concordances don't properly render the original word in the original language, in other words, I can't fully trust them either. Just a lot of loose ends here.  :blahgreen:

[eaglesway]

Loose ends can be good. Sometimes the Lord unravels what we know a bit before he ties us back together with a better understanding :o)

If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me.

Behold, I am making all things new!

[Gracewalker1985]

 :dunno:
Thx for the reply, the awkward silence was starting to become deafening.  :hihat:

[eaglesway]

It is through searching that our foundations are dug up, and relaid, in true alignment to the chief cornerstone. It is difficult work, and sometimes even agonizing, but the result is that our better, deeper understanding has become part of who we are, and our sharing of it resonates with others who have begun the same process, and are in need of encouragement and illumination.

2 Cor 5:16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

He has given me the tongue of the disciple, that I might speak a word in season to the one who is weary. Isaiah 50:4


www.hellisamyth.com

[Lazarus Short]

Eternity - it's so huge, so deep, so unfathomable, that we fear to enter it.  However, if we stop to think about it, if we are God's people, and new creations, then eternity has already begun for us.  After the resurrection, it will be a piece of cake. :cloud9:

[Gracewalker1985]

Okay, so please bear with me again for another moment, bc I don't know the ends and outs of specifics beliefs concerning UR, and surely am not looking to step on any toes here. My question is if eternal punishment for non believers doesn't really mean eternal, but for an age, or ages. How does that fit for eternal 'life' for believers? Just honest questions here, not trying to be a smart alec and start a debate. Thx.  :thinking:  :dunno2:

[eaglesway]

In Matthew 25:46, Jesus says that those who did not, "give Him drink, etc" will go away "into kolassis aionion"

εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον

aionion is an adjective, not a noun, so, it is not exactly for an age but rather of the age. It could be read, "into the corrective punishment of the ages". (see Weymouth translation)

aionion is a Greek translation of the Hebrew word "olam". Olam is an indefinite descriptive word representing a long period that could range from the length of a bondslaves life(Exodus 21:6, Deuteronomy 15:17),to the 'far distant past'(Gen 6:4) to the length of the existence of the mountains(Hab 3:6), to the length of God's life(Jer 10:10), which is eternal. The exact application of olam depended on the subject it is applied to. Aionion should be viewed in the same light as olam, which is used over 400 times in the OT, to describe various indefinite time periods.

The life of the age to come is everlasting, because it is the life of God in us. The correction/punishment of the age to come is until it is completed.

There are some good resources for understanding olam and aion available on the Tentmaker homepage.

I highly reccomend Gerry Beuchamin's book Hope Beyond Hell which is available for free in pdf at

http://tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Here is an excerpt:

Consider how the following translations word this phrase

Young's Literal Translation : ―punishment age-during.

RotherhamTranslation: ―age-abiding correction.

Weymouth Translation: ―punishment of the ages.

Concordant Literal Translation: ―chastening eonian

These reputable translations use the word age and not eternal. These two concepts are diametrically opposed to one another.
They are not the same by any means. An age has a beginning and an
end; eternity does not.
Augustine raised the argumentthat since aionios in Mt. 25:46 referred to both life and punishment, it had to carry the same duration in both cases. However, he failed to considerthat the duration of aionios is determined by the subject to which it refers. For example, when
aionios referred to the duration of Jonah's entrapment in the fish, it was limited to three days.
To a slave, aionios referred to his life span.
To the Aaronic priesthood, it referred to
the generation preceding the Melchizedek priesthood.
To Solomon's temple, it referred to 400years.
To God it encompasses and transcends time altogether.

[marie glen]

Amen! "into the age" translated as "for" "ever".. "aion/eon"! Crazy how it became "forever"!

Paul, of course wrote how at the 1st resurrection at Jesus' return, believers would "put on immortality"

It's my belief our immortality is "in Jesus", and will be "put on" at the time of full redemption at His return/the marriage (supper, sup, union)..

However, I also do not believe many, if any humans, will actually make it to the Lake of Fire, as I believe Judgment Day will last 500 years (500 years having to do with the pattern of the ancient fall Holy Days) and that it's only at the , and conclusion end of that 500 years (of intense learning & review/proving) that is said "those not believing will go to the LOF" ("into the age")

Even the two thrown "alive" into the LOF at Jesus' return, the beast (world beast/body) and the false prophet (prophecy/teaching) are (imo) not individuals, but institutions of man active at Jesus' return (very active)..

After all, His word says the LOF(into the age) was "created for the devil/opposer and his angels" and who can interfere or negate God's Will?? that, oops, 2/3rds of humanity or more, will end up being there after all..

God is perfect and perfect makes no mistakes (and, of course, loses nothing) :smile:

[bushy]

Okay, so please bear with me again for another moment, bc I don't know the ends and outs of specifics beliefs concerning UR, and surely am not looking to step on any toes here. My question is if eternal punishment for non believers doesn't really mean eternal, but for an age, or ages. How does that fit for eternal 'life' for believers? Just honest questions here, not trying to be a smart alec and start a debate. Thx.  :thinking:  :dunno2:

I see the term 'eternal life' as meaning where that life comes from, not the length of it. It comes from God who is eternal. The life of the ages is from God. But never fear, we are promised life that never ends and it is called immortality.

1Cor 15:53  For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Read the whole chapter. It is about resurrection, life, and the end of death the last enemy. And the promise that because of Christ all will be made alive.

[eaglesway]

Yes, absolutely Bushy, 1 Corinthians 15 declares the end of death, its "nullification".

Isnt that wonderful? If death is nullified, being the "last adversary" subjected to Christ, then there will only be life remaining. The life you spoke of, which is the life of God, immortal, eternal- in all because God will be ALL IN ALL.

[Gracewalker1985]

 :goodpost: :Urock: thank you all so much! You guys have been very helpful