eternal life same as eternal punishment

[claypot]

Hey Guys, it's been forever (ages) since I've been here, my bad but one of my sons is asking about if eternal punishment is limited what about eternal life? Now I know what's up here but some refresher verses and thoughts would be appreciated.

mt 25.46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

cp

[Aleax]

Hi Claypot,

I'll just copy-paste some Martin Zender stuff for you, since his Bible knowledge and English skills are superior to mine.

Here goes:

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Yes, Matthew 25:31-46 does ring a bell. It should, seeing as how I've studied the passage for fifteen years. This is a judgment of nations, not individuals, a fact plainly stated in verse 42. Thus, this is not the general judgment of mankind, as you suppose. This judging takes place at the inauguration of the thousand-year kingdom. The majority of mankind are not even alive at this judging, for scripture says that, "the rest of the dead" (the unbelieving dead of all time) "do not live until the thousand years should be finished" (Rev. 20:5).

If this is the separation of all people into either heaven or hell, tell me: What is the criteria for judging? Is it faith in Jesus? Is it belief in the gospel? Reliance on the cross? No. The only criteria is: How did the nation being judged treat the favored nation Israel? Did they feed Israel when it was hungry? Give it a drink when it was thirsty? This judgment, which takes place in the Kidron Valley (the Valley of Jehoshaphat) upon Christ's return, does nothing more than separate nations that helped Israel (sheep nations) from those that ignored her (goat nations), and determines their placement during the millennium.

The "everlasting punishment" of the King James Version is actually "chastening eonian" in the Greek. ("Eternal" is a mistranslation of the Greek aion, meaning "eon," which always has to do with time.) The "life eternal" is correctly translated "life eonian." This passage has nothing to do with where people will spend eternity. The eon in question is the thousand-year kingdom, and the "people" are nations. Those nations that helped Israel will enjoy abundant life during that eon, probably near Jerusalem. Those nations that didn't will be placed in the outer reaches of the kingdom and will certainly suffer more than the sheep nations. This is the "fire eonian" of verse 41. Since Christ is said to rule these nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:27), it is evident that these nations are neither consumed nor writhing in literal flame. Thus, the flame of this context is a figure of speech for suffering.

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You might also want to read the Chapter 16 of Adlai Loudy's "God's Eonian Purpose", called Adjudication.

http://www.gtft.org/Library/loudy/GodsEonianPurpose/GodsEonianPurpose16.htm

The most important stuff starts at "IV. THE GLORY THRONE JUDGMENT".

I hope this helps!  :icon_jokercolor:

[sheila]

again....."I judge no man"....it is all about spirits......the spirit 'good' seed that God sowed.....and the spirit evel seed[tare] that the enemy sowed.


    tares crowd out wheat..suck up nutrients,choke out sunlight,hinder,stunt the developement and maturing of wheat.....

    symbolically   man made in the image of God is the 'good' seed...and is Israel...a spiritual nation.......

    symbolically all the nations represent kingdom of spiritual tares/darkness.....specifically gog's crowds deceived to encompass camp of city He loves


     How did they treat the 'little children'   note Babylon's judgement d/t the way she treated you........

   
   He promises a time when He does away with His longsuffering of these vessels fitted for destruction[tare spirits].......and the death of death is the beginning

  of life eternal

[PaoloNuevo]

Andrew Jukes puts it this way

the Ages of the Ages [mistranslated "forever and ever" in Revelation] or the Kingdom Age.. where Age-Abiding rewards and punishments will be given is in Christ's second coming where He must reign until He puts all enemies under his feet... so both states in Matt 25: 46 might as well be temporary until God becomes all in all (1 Cor. 15: 28)

but Aion can also mean [pertaining to, belonging to] eternity rather than [lasting through] it.

[WhiteWings]

Hey Guys, it's been forever (ages) since I've been here, my bad but one of my sons is asking about if eternal punishment is limited what about eternal life? Now I know what's up here but some refresher verses and thoughts would be appreciated.

mt 25.46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

cp

There are many views about that. For example this one: http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Aion%20and%20Aionios.htm
My personal view is even more simple but doesn't conflict with the above.

The people in Matthew 25:46 do not recieve eternal life.
To simplify:
a] Saints get 1000 years of fun ==> a 1000 year age "Eternal"
b] Sinners get 1000 years of correction ==> a 1000 year age "Eternal"
c] When the 1000 year ends both groups merge and endless life starts for the sinners and continues for the saints.




                         ------correction for the sinners---|
                        |                       
This life=========Death-|                                   |=====groups merge ===>Unending life for all.                             |
                        |
                         ------life for the saints----------|

[Nathan]

I'm on the side that "it's all inward" . . there are nations in all of us spiritually speaking . . .the ungodliness get's purged from the godliness.  To see it as individuals being cleansed while others celebrate again, negates the power of what the cross did.  It wasn't enough that Jesus sacrifice for sin on the cross could purge all men . . .so there still needs to be another period where those that didn't get the affects the first time, need to yet go through the second phase of it?

Not only that, but again, this is all "after" we leave this realm, for those who adhere literally to Revelation, it speaks about there no longer being any sun . . .no sun, no moon, no measuring of seasons . . .so how can one measure "how long" a thousand years literally is if there is no night and day to keep track?  What goes on in the spirit realm is "beyond" the reaches of time.  It can't be measured . . .so when we see times given, it's to refer to the happenings in "this" realm, not in the next.

[Molly]

Tell him about God's plan for the ages.

[EdwardTulane82]

I like what WhiteWings said. Makes sense to me. :)

I was gonna say, just today my eyes were opened to a very well known passage at the end of Revelation:

12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

   14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

   16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [Greek is plural] this testimony for the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

When reading Julie Ferwerda's book Raising Hell, she pointed out an interpretation that I'd never though of:
that the Spirit and the bride (that is, the church) are saying "Come!" to the people outside the city! Wow! :smile:
To think, I never saw that, because I was looking through the lenses of ET.  :bsad:
Things are starting to make sense.   :Yesss:

[PaoloNuevo]

.

When reading Julie Ferwerda's book Raising Hell, she pointed out an interpretation that I'd never though of:
that the Spirit and the bride (that is, the church) are saying "Come!" to the people outside the city! Wow!

Eternal punishment to the Adamic man is Restoration to the Spirit.

Amen.  :cloud9:

[WhiteWings]

Eternal punishment to the Adamic man is Restoration to the Spirit.

If you replace punishment by correction it simply means we keep learning/growing after death.

[WhiteWings]

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The verse is wrong if you use common defenitions. It's about contrast. About opposites. But the words used in the verse are not opposites.

The opposite of Life is Death. Not punishment. Not correction. Not torture. To undergo correction or punishment of any level, awareness is needed. It would be like a human judge that sentences a bankrober that was killed by the police to 20 years of jail.
Of course it can be argued that the verse isn't about opposites but different destinies. About the quality of life for the rest of eternity. That view seems ok until you put it into context.
No matter how miserible or happy, all life is life. Jesus is the only way to life. Those undergoing punishment did not  believe (enough) in Jesus but they recieved eternal life
Then of course there are verses (similar to) that Eward quoted. The god people obviously live in New Jerusalem and enjoy their eternal life. But they seem to be busy making sure the other people get the same eternal life. I think we can agree those verses are not implying the saints are bypassing God's judgements and smuggling the sinners into the city. Using the same reasoning the second death isn't death at all. Unless one believes in ED.
So if both saint and sinner recieve eternal life the verse must be about quality of life.