This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?
Quote from: Deena on July 30, 2012, 03:44:28 AM
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?
"spiritual recluse" ???
Jeremiah 15:17
I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced: I sat alone because of thy hand; for thou thou hast filled me with indignation.
Now read Jeremiah 15:16
Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy of rejoicing of mine heart, for I am called by thy name, O Lord God of hosts.
also
Psalm 102:7
I watch, and am as a sparrow alone upon the housetop.
housetops are often places of prayer so I see this verse as watch and pray... Jesus uses this phrase on two different occasions. Must be important....
also (oh yes, I have many also's)
imo, now is the time of two or three gathered in His Name.... I believe that "name" includes the sum total of who Jesus is...
so do UR's go to church... well there about a zillion definitions of the word "church"... if one uses the definition of "the called out ones".... it seems to me, when two or three are gathered in His name... there is "church"...
so many words, did I say anything???
Yes, I see your point. It is my perception of church that needs to change.
Hi Deena. :)
When I first came out of the church that's what I felt like too. I prayed for a true friend (since all of my friends at that time were ET believers in the traditional church system and it was impossible to be as close to them as before, considering.) Anyhow, it took about 3 years of praying but God finally sent me Rebecca a few months ago and for the first time ever I actually experienced what it's like to be a part of the true Church! Words of knowledge, prophecy, giving, these are things that are alive and are supposed to be a part of the body! And it's wonderful. :) Ask the Lord, but I'm sure He's got plans for you anyway Deena! Plans to connect you with true members of the body. He didn't call you out of Babylon for nothing. :)
Blessings and love in Christ. <3
I love that! "Not called out of Babylon for nothing". Yes!!!
As you can see, that feeling is not unique, I also do not go to church anymore and sometimes feel alone,
but as goodreport stated, "watch and wait".
It was not only coming to this site to find like minded people, but I also wait for God to bring others across my path. They may not believe all that I have to say, but if they are willing to listen, I can keep on talking about the love of God all day long, and that is what I get excited about and they hear it in my voice when I talk about it.
I have found that when I ask God to bring others across my path so I can speak of His love, He never hesitates to answer and I find a lot of times, when they come across my path, they ask a question that has to do with what He has currently taught me. And that is what I find awesome about our Lord and Savior.
I have problems with the apostasy of most of Institutional Christianity, what they do as well as what they say. They're messed up more than enough for the people to seek escape without even once considering they make God a Master Torturer.
We must remember, if God gives us more light it is to find access to our brothers and sisters and shine on them. To get puffed up, saying, "Now that I have light superior to you I can't fellowship with you any more," is not God's will for them or us. Our mission, our witness, after the Holy Ghost is come come upon us, is in Jerusalem (the core of a believing group,) Judea and Samaria (those in the religious world,) and the uttermost parts of the earth.
The phrase, "Go to church," is not used in connection with anything in the Bible. It just isn't there anywhere. When there was a tabernacle or the temple we could say something like that, speaking of a place to go to God's presence, though He always denied He was confined in any way (unless it's by our sins.) Now that the fire fell on each of us at Pentecost everywhere we go we bring the church with us because we are the church.
We are in a period of transition. Returning the ministry to the people of God is on the agenda for those who will hear what the spirit says to the churches. Every member participating is God's way for us to be perfected. The true God is in many people, not just an individual you, me, or some lonely prophet somewhere. We don't know Him very well if He's confined to the God of our own heart.
But where is the belief in the Holy Spirit that Jesus says the Father sends in Jesus' name. He is present as head of His body. He would lead forth through His body but we are not allowed to be lead by Him. We have given our rights and blessings to come into the full image of Christ away to other mediators, usually honored by other men with the title "Pastor," rather than to meet without human headship. There may be times we function in a lecture structure meeting, and there are teachers in the body. But the normal format of the church should be a round-table meeting.
Read it in 5 little verses in Ephesians 411-16. The function of apostles, prophets and the like is to build up the saints so they'll corporately become the ministry one to another. That in turn brings in the perfect man that everyone of us is to grow into. That is what will reign in all the earth. It is a Royal Priesthood and it is "...by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part." This is all happening "...in love" (vs. 15)
I know there is the call to come out of Babylon: "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 184) I also know Jesus, "...as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day..." (Lukw 416) There is no directly stated warrant in the Hebrew Scriptures for the synagogue system. Considering ignorance of God's word to be the cause of the captivity, it was instituted upon the Jews return from Babylon as a measure to prevent such judgement from ever happening again. Yet it was Jesus habit to attend the synagogue services.
We may find ourselves in varying conditions, isolated for a season, then with just one or two others to be in agreement with, or, as Jesus, "...sat the people down in groups of fifty or a hundred" when He fed the hungry, multiplying the bread and fishes, which I consider to be the size of normal gatherings. There is definitely room for throngs and vast crowds too, depending on the situation.
Welcome to freedom. But it is only right to remind you it is an honor to suffer for the name of Jesus.
Yes reFORMer, I made the mistake of condemning my brothers and sisters when I first came out. I had been hurt badly by them and retaliated in my mind, holding contempt for them in my heart. It was only fairly recently that God brought it to my attention and really cleaned that out of me and brought me to repentance. They are only doing what they think is right, and only a few short years ago I would've done the same. They truly believe that they are serving God when they persecute the light. Many are held in extreme bondage to fear. It is not a fun place to be, having that strong delusion and being such a slave to fear. I have a lot of friends in the church system, family too. My biggest desire now is to see them all experience what I've since been able to experience - true fellowship! It's an amazing thing and I won't be satisfied until everyone has experienced being a part of His body!
Sister lo, you still there?
I've got a question for you. And yes, it is a trick question. :LH:
Quote from: lomarah on July 30, 2012, 08:28:34 AM
It's an amazing thing and I won't be satisfied until everyone has experienced being a part of His body!
Here it is :)
When/how long ago did the Holy Spirit convict you that you needed a Savior, and gave you the faith to believe on Jesus as your Savior?
Ah! I hate trick questions! Hahaha.
It was about 11 years ago. And I think I see where you are going with this haha. But I can honestly tell you that I didn't experience the fullness of His body until He brought Becs and I together. I was not living by the Spirit, and neither were any of the others in the system I was in. I'm not saying it's not possible for a group of church members to be living by the Spirit but I sure haven't seen anything remotely resembling the early church in that system. I was pretty much a dead member hanging out with other dead members. I mean at times we had great talks and shared our hearts with each other and those times were great. But the life of Christ was completely missing from there. I mean the fullness of the Spirit just wasn't there. When I would read in Acts about the early church I would think, wow, it would be awesome to be a part of that! And that is what we are truly called to be a part of!
hahaha, very good! You're smart!!! :bgdance:
First of all, let me say I appreciate what you're saying about coming out of institutionalization, He brought me out too. Also, appreciation for your heart of wanting all to participate. :gthumbsup:
The other consideration is though, I personally believe when you were spiritually reborn 11 years ago you became a part of the Body of Christ. IMO, that also s/w speaks to some other issues that have been discussed the past few days. IMO, that is a work of the Holy Spirit, giving you faith to believe - and then Him imputing His righteousness to you and by His grace, seating you in heavenly places with Christ. That's a finished work of the cross, made real in you. So I believe all those folks (who were truly saved) are all part of yours and my family (one faith, one Lord, one baptism). I Cor. 12 talks about the body, through and in Christ, how there are many members, some more and some less desirable than others - yet all necessary and all the same body.
Don't know what group (denomination) you were fellowshipping with, but again, from years experience, I know some are more alive and some much more dry than others. So I absolutely don't want to dis being led into deeper walking in the Spirit and deeper fellowship. I believe those things are to be desired and yielded to, according to His will. I also really like (and I'm thinking of it in different terms than before) good report's statement of "2 or 3 gathered in His name". That's all good stuff.
Anyway, is it possible there's a difference between being in the body, and being in deeper fellowship? Sometimes I think of it as, "I may have folks that are my family members, but that doesn't mean we eat a lot of meals together at each others' house". :Chinscratch: :gimmefive:
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: I long for each member to be able to experience true fellowship and to have eyes to see and ears to hear. I believe (like reFORMer) that He is in each one (I know, you don't but the reason I'm saying it is:) therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family. I am still very blind to many things so I honestly have no idea who is a part of His body, who or what the bride is, if they are the same thing, etc, etc. (I'm not asking for peoples opinions here, there are many, the Lord will show me when He sees fit.) I just know that the Babylonian church system has little to no life and since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)
Quote from: lomarah on July 30, 2012, 10:57:18 AM
since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)
Amen. :)
I think this is a very personal choice. I have spent quite a bit of time angry with the church. All the points above are noted and I agree. With that said, part of my Spiritual healing process is to find peace with believers who gather together. While I don't see eye to eye on some issues, I have found much we can agree on. Also, going to a grace, love, sound teaching oriented church has helped. So, yes I go to church, but understand why some do not.
I in no way will condemn or hold anything against those of the church, as lomarah said, I consider every man, woman and child family. For me it is more like mourning for them. Do I consider them dead? No, I consider them still inbed, we have been made alive in Christ, some just do not understand that they have been awakened to the truth, they just haven't got out of bed yet.
I repeat the words of our Lord and Savior upon the cross, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"
For me, there certainly is no pride rooted in the thought that i had anyrhing to do with God's revelation of UR to me. It happened like the dawning of a new day where the light gradually increases. One day i read Smith's book "unselfishness of God"which was the first time i had heard the message. I didn't understand at first, but i read it again and i "saw" it. Like her, the discovery was a great relief, and i wanted to find out more. I know it was all God's doing because i was the most miserable Christian who thought death was the only escape. There is no animosity from me towards those in "church". I more pity them, want to show them the way out of that lifeof bondage. I was in such emotional pain that i imagine many others are also. Now when i think of going to church i have a PTSD reaction of anxiety and fear. I never want to go back to that emotional state. I want to lead them to the liberty that i am discovering.
Quote from: Deena on July 31, 2012, 12:34:50 AM
For me, there certainly is no pride rooted in the thought that i had anyrhing to do with God's revelation of UR to me. It happened like the dawning of a new day where the light gradually increases. One day i read Smith's book "unselfishness of God"which was the first time i had heard the message. I didn't understand at first, but i read it again and i "saw" it. Like her, the discovery was a great relief, and i wanted to find out more. I know it was all God's doing because i was the most miserable Christian who thought death was the only escape. There is no animosity from me towards those in "church". I more pity them, want to show them the way out of that lifeof bondage. I was in such emotional pain that i imagine many others are also. Now when i think of going to church i have a PTSD reaction of anxiety and fear. I never want to go back to that emotional state. I want to lead them to the liberty that i am discovering.
Amen!
"Church" just has little attraction for me since my Jesus-Freak days. I take note of the infiltration of Christianity/Churchianity by the forces of the Illuminati:
I read an account on the www of a Mormon missionary in Australia who happened to call on a fellow who was some kind of Satanist. He urged the young man to join them, claiming that "...we have infiltrated all the churches, and yours will be next." Chilling, and that was in the late 1940's.
No wonder the current version of the glorious Gospel sounds more like Pabulum...
Quote from: lomarah on July 30, 2012, 10:57:18 AM
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: I long for each member to be able to experience true fellowship and to have eyes to see and ears to hear. I believe (like reFORMer) that He is in each one (I know, you don't but the reason I'm saying it is:) therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family. I am still very blind to many things so I honestly have no idea who is a part of His body, who or what the bride is, if they are the same thing, etc, etc. (I'm not asking for peoples opinions here, there are many, the Lord will show me when He sees fit.) I just know that the Babylonian church system has little to no life and since I have been able to experience that life I have a deep desire for others to as well. :)
Well, this is an opinion though...while scripture definitely says He's in all, "...one God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all" (Ep 4
6 Concordant Literal) in some He's crucified and in us He is risen (or, in the process of.)
That's a good distinction reF, I like that.
-----------------
Quote from: lomarah on July 29, 2012, 06:57:18 PM
Yes I totally see what you're saying jab and maybe I should word it this way: He is in each one therefore I consider every man and woman a part of my family.
I guess that's the main distinction for me, i.e., whether He's "technically" somehow in all, i.e. by His breath that sparks everyone, His DNA/a spirit of man He gave us, etc. (even though I'd suggest considering that the context of 'all' in Eph. 4:6 specifically is talking about those in the body of Christ) :2c: - either way, I don't believe literally all are saved yet. So I personally don't see everyone as already being a part of the body of Christ ("we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" 2 Cor. 5:20) So not to sound mean, but honestly, I don't see everyone as my brother or sister "in the family". Some are indeed enemies of Christ and I have no [INTIMATE/LIKE-MINDED] fellowship with them -- "Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14.
In my understanding, we are to love everyone and help others ("Therefore, whenever we have the opportunity, we should do good to everyone--especially to those in the family of faith." Gal. 6:10); share the love of Christ and live at peace with everyone as is possible ("If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Rm. 12:8); still, I believe one must be spiritually reborn from above through Christ's work on the cross and belief in Him, to come into the family/body. Blessings.
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)
Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!
Quote from: lomarah on August 23, 2012, 10:14:39 PM
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)
Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!
My favorite people to sit and talk with are drug addicts and alcoholics. I'm more comfortable in a meeting with recovering addicts than I am just about anywhere else. For me it's about authenticity. I like interacting with people that just lay it out there...no pretense...walls are down...just being real. That is when real relationship with other human beings begins. What I struggle with is dealing with masks, walls and fascades...how can you fellowship with someone who can't trust you enough to let you see them?
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 24, 2012, 01:50:25 AM
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...
As we were leaving my very first AA meeting, an elderly gentlemen approached me and said "I'm so glad that I am an alcoholic...." (having just listened to several members discussing their own pain at having inflicted so much pain on their spouses, children, friends... I wanted to reply "Are you crazy???!!!) but the man quickly added "I know my sin, and have gone before God and received forgiveness. My family and friends know only my sin, they don't know their sin and so they don't go before God ... so they cannot experience the joy of being a forgiven sinner."
reminds me of Luke 7:47 ...her sins, which are many, are forgiven; she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, loveth little.
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 02:17:45 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 24, 2012, 01:50:25 AM
Shawn, the answer is: Trust.
Tell a church member you were drunk last week and at teh next mass everyone wisphers behind your back...
As we were leaving my very first AA meeting, an elderly gentlemen approached me and said "I'm so glad that I am an alcoholic...." (having just listened to several members discussing their own pain at having inflicted so much pain on their spouses, children, friends... I wanted to reply "Are you crazy???!!!) but the man quickly added "I know my sin, and have gone before God and received forgiveness. My family and friends know only my sin, they don't know their sin and so they don't go before God ... so they cannot experience the joy of being a forgiven sinner."
reminds me of Luke 7:47 ...her sins, which are many, are forgiven; she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, loveth little.
I can honestly say that I am very glad that I am a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. There are many reasons including the one you listed above. I like the fact that it makes me sensitive to the cries of other addicts. My story comforts those who are suffering. I found a new understanding of God's love for mankind as a direct result of my recovery. God turned what satan meant for my destruction into my life's work...my calling. Also, so many people go around with these feelings of being defective, insufficient etc...and they never figure out what is wrong...spiritually bankrupt and don't know where to go, what to do...have zero insight into themselves. Recovery not only changed that for me, but for my entire family. My wife is in recovery from co-dependence and also works with me helping addicts and families of addicts. God used something dark, and destructive that I had done to myself an turned it into something beautiful. And for that I give Him the glory...the thanks...and my gratitude.
:)
re: "I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)"
To be clear, in case there's some misconceptions despite how clearly I tried to say it in my last post, I personally can't say anyone's not saved (though I have shared several scriptures about what that means and how it happens scripturally). But, that's ultimately between every person and God. If one has been given the faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the scriptures say "our spirits bear witness with His Spirit that we are the sons of God". IMO, that's internal, and I can't see what's inside someone. The point I'm trying to make (rather than "who I consider saved" or not is) what do the scriptures say about it, and how can we understand that to the best of our ability (given His help understanding it); and then living it out in the way He'd have us to. So just clarifying, that's really what I'm addressing in my previous post. However we each understand it, I'd hope we can still agree that's important, and then seek to do His will on it. I'm still "getting there". Even though He gives us some guidelines, still, who we each feel most comfortable with or who He leads us to associate with, I believe is also ultimately between each person and God. :thumbsup:
Quote from: lomarah on August 23, 2012, 10:14:39 PM
Yeah it is certainly easier to have fellowship with those who are walking in the Spirit, for sure, and who share similar beliefs. But in my experience I have a much easier time "fellowshipping" with those whom you would consider "not saved" (gentiles, if you will) then most of those in the church whom you would consider "saved". It's awfully hard to fellowship with people who think you're as good as Satan. (For believing God will save all.)
Give me the tax collectors and sinners anyday lol!
For me (and sometimes
because of me) some saved people (including UR) are not the easiest to be around or interact with, depending on personalities and what's being sought as common denominator/point of discussion. Some are great to be around. I have friends/family who are UR, some that are ET, some that do not profess to be spiritually reborn at all. I can have some level of fellowship with all them, but my most intimate would be with those with whom I share the most in common.
That said, isn't Jesus and Him crucified and risen again the critical point of unity all believers (ideally) should have in common, rather than completely dividing over doctrine, "as much as is possible and depends on you" living in peace as Paul said?
Some non-believers are great to be around, some not so much, again, depending on personalities and what's being sought as interaction/point of discussion. Some are outright vicious enemies of Christ. Show love if possible, share Christ if possible? Sure, but IMO, there is likely no basis for
intimate fellowship. Likely living in 2 different worlds ("in, not of").
Observation without digging into it; I could be very wrong, I see through a glass darkly and understand very little of how God actually works all things according to the counsel of His will. But I'm
guessing here, that perhaps Jesus' interactions went something like this? He loved and associated with the harlots and tax collectors, but His relationship with them was not intimate, but was as an Agent of change, as a Helper - not identifying or "joining/yoking together" with their unbelief and as-yet-to-be-reborn sinful nature, i.e., "light with darkness", but rather to bring them to the Light? He chastised and rebuked the Pharisaical religious, those who only pretended to believe and be pious. His deepest (earthly) intimacy was with His disciples, His followers, those He called friends. Even though they were far from perfect or even understanding much at all, there was a spiritual "connection"; this relationship was based on true fellowship of light with light. :2c:
re: easier fellowshipping with... not saved (Lomarah
re: Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts
re: ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)
A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer) Psalm 102:7 Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 06:48:45 AM
re: easier fellowshipping with... not saved (Lomarah
re: Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts
re: ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)
A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer) Psalm 102:7 Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.
Can you describe what is difficult? Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment? Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.
Quote from: shawn on August 24, 2012, 06:56:42 AM
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 06:48:45 AM
re: easier fellowshipping with... not saved (Lomarah
re: Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts
re: ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)
A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer) Psalm 102:7 Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.
Can you describe what is difficult? Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment? Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.
Shawn, you misunderstood me... what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray... I've given my testimony in front of very large crowds (prayer groups of international renown even). I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me... but thank you for your gracious offer.
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 07:09:21 AM
what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray... I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me... but thank you for your gracious offer.
:2thumbs:
Quote from: Goodreport--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
It's amazing how he keeps communicating to you through that one sparrow.
Same thing happens to me. He picks one thing that is very meaningful to me to artfully insert into my day at the right time.
It does make you laugh out loud.
Quote from: Molly on August 24, 2012, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: Goodreport--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
It's amazing how he keeps communicating to you through that one sparrow.
Same thing happens to me. He picks one thing that is very meaningful to me to artfully insert into my day at the right time.
It does make you laugh out loud.
It seems that yesterday's sparrow on scaffolding is just that...
yesterday's communication--a sort of graduation gift... next grade? Jeremiah sitting alone, weeping over his people's idolatry... and "...judgment must begin at the house of God... (1Peter 4:17-19)... and so much more... (house of God: church (called out ones) ...
like Jeremiah sit alone, watch, weep, pray (for God will have compassion according to the multitude of His mercies) NOT to sit in condemnation of any person, any group (I'm too aware of my own "flaws" ....)
He is so gentle with us. Is this judgment?
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
--Rom 8:1
Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
He just wants us to understand it all.
We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.
Quote from: Molly on August 25, 2012, 12:03:12 AM
He is so gentle with us. Is this judgment?
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
--Rom 8:1
Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
He just wants us to understand it all.
We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.
among meanings given in Strong's Analysis...
"to pronounce an opinion concerning right or wrong"
judgment can lead to condemnation or justification
judgment can also lead to correction, to chastisement...
What do you think Peter meant by "judgment must begin at the house of God"?
Quote from: goodreport on August 25, 2012, 12:31:00 AM
Quote from: Molly on August 25, 2012, 12:03:12 AM
He is so gentle with us. Is this judgment?
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
--Rom 8:1
Romans 5:16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
He just wants us to understand it all.
We have been set free...set free...set free...from the law of sin and death and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.
among meanings given in Strong's Analysis...
"to pronounce an opinion concerning right or wrong"
judgment can lead to condemnation or justification
judgment can also lead to correction, to chastisement...
What do you think Peter meant by "judgment must begin at the house of God"?
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
--1 Thess 5
Quote from: shawn on August 24, 2012, 03:01:42 AM
I can honestly say that I am very glad that I am a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. There are many reasons including the one you listed above. I like the fact that it makes me sensitive to the cries of other addicts. My story comforts those who are suffering. I found a new understanding of God's love for mankind as a direct result of my recovery. God turned what satan meant for my destruction into my life's work...my calling. Also, so many people go around with these feelings of being defective, insufficient etc...and they never figure out what is wrong...spiritually bankrupt and don't know where to go, what to do...have zero insight into themselves. Recovery not only changed that for me, but for my entire family. My wife is in recovery from co-dependence and also works with me helping addicts and families of addicts. God used something dark, and destructive that I had done to myself an turned it into something beautiful. And for that I give Him the glory...the thanks...and my gratitude.
Shawn, your phrase "...feelings of being defective, insufficient..." took me back some years to a time when I was beginning to face some negative issues in my own life. I prayed about it, and while still praying, I saw in my mind's eye a vast field strewn with potsherds. Some were very pretty with colored glazes and/or incised designs, and some were very plain. I knew that each shard represented a human being, and that my shard was among them. The lesson for me in that vision was that some are more beautiful, but WE ARE ALL BROKEN. It was not the answer I wanted, but I believed it, and still do.
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 07:09:21 AM
Quote from: shawn on August 24, 2012, 06:56:42 AM
Quote from: goodreport on August 24, 2012, 06:48:45 AM
re: easier fellowshipping with... not saved (Lomarah
re: Shawn and his wife's ministry to addicts and families of addicts
re: ...who He leads us to associate with... (Jabcat)
A few minutes ago, after reading the last several posts (including my own) on this thread...I needed to go for a walk, but first looked out my picture window (3rd floor apt) where much earlier this morning I watched the paint crew set up some scaffolding--I smiled almost out loud as I saw one, very tiny sparrow sitting firmly on the edge of a pipe looking directly into the SSW gusts at 27 mph!!!!
I was reminded once again that some of us are called to "watch, as a sparrow alone upon a housetop." (often a place of prayer) Psalm 102:7 Sometimes I really find this difficult... knowing the pain and struggle of alcoholism, I so want to share (and I've done that as an Evening Supervisor at a Christian Halfway House) but now for a season the Lord is calling me to watch and pray.
Can you describe what is difficult? Is it difficult to talk about your story because of embarassment? Feel free to PM me anytime, as I have known many who have struggled with this same thing, including myself.
Shawn, you misunderstood me... what I find difficult is to not share and just(?) pray... I've given my testimony in front of very large crowds (prayer groups of international renown even). I greatly rejoice and am eager to share what the Lord has done for and through me... but thank you for your gracious offer.
Ah ok...thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: Deena on July 30, 2012, 03:44:28 AM
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"?
Well, in my belief I live on earth so I "go to" church every day I wake up. ;-)
Or, from time to time I attend the Unitarian Universalist services that occur here at different times in the week, because the local synagogue allows the UU to use their temple for the meetings.
It's a wonderful experience to intermingle with an eclectic community of people from Wiccans unto Christians to Agnostics and even an atheist or two.
God Bless.
Quote from: Deena on July 30, 2012, 03:44:28 AM
This may sound like a dumb question, but since I've come to understand the real gospel i no longer go to "church" (i dont want to hear my God belittled), but it gets kind of lonely out here. If not for this blog and my books/articles, i would be a spiritual recluse. Is this the new "normal"
If you would put the 12 in a church for an hour; then after hour you ask what sort of building they visited the answer likely would be a Roman temple.
Church=religion=manmade
I think a small homebased Bible study group is much more to 'church' than Constantines military religion.
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?
Quote from: Deena on September 06, 2012, 08:44:49 PM
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?
I like the idea as well...even considered taking out an ad in local papers. Too bad you don't live in southern Ga. :)
When believed UR for quite awhile before I took a bold stand in it. I took a bold stand in it when I was fortified enough in the scriptures and in the understanding of the overall "whys" of God to feel confident that I could give a defense, or even go on offense if led, without getting angry or intimidated or forgetting love along the way to making a point.
But long before that, I was out of "church" for various reasons, but of course I still longed for fellowship. One day I prayed, Lord, you are head over all things to the body of Christ here where I live. I believe tere is fellowship here for me, or your word is not true, and I know it is. Not long thereafter, I found myself going on Monday nights to the home of a man I had known as an acquaintance for years, just three or four of us usually, in prayer, worship, fellowship. I never spoke to them of my belief in UR at that time, altho I did much later(this was maybe 10,11 years ago).
Wherever two or more of you gather in my name, there I am in the midst of you. To me, this is the mustard seed of the church, the body, the tabernacle of living stones.
My fellowship has changed over the years, I have moved a few times. I hav been waiting on the Lord for two or three here in NYC since I hav been here (nearly 2 years) I go to church once in awhile with and open mind and heart, and Thank God, I hav some dear friends I see once in awhile and talk to often who share this blessed hope with me- and that is all good church to me.
I have believed in the book of Acts style, Body of Christ, living stones, spirit filled 5 fold ministry, one heart one soul ecclesia of God for over 30 years and I still hold that vision on my heart of hearts......but if I ever get to see it it will be because a few believers fall in love with Jesus together and break through in love and prayer and serving one another until the Lord speaks GREAT GRACE upon them as the word of the Lord multiplies among them until He begins to add daily to their number those who are appointed for deliverance.
:2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:
Quote from: Deena on September 06, 2012, 08:44:49 PM
I like that idea. Are thereany UR believers in Souther California that would be willing to try it?
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/
===> Misc ====> Churches
Mayber something of use there.
Quote from: LordsDaughter on September 06, 2012, 03:34:29 AM
Or, from time to time I attend the Unitarian Universalist services that occur here at different times in the week, because the local synagogue allows the UU to use their temple for the meetings.
It's a wonderful experience to intermingle with an eclectic community of people from Wiccans unto Christians to Agnostics and even an atheist or two.
God Bless.
LD, are you really one in the spirit with wiccans, agnostics, and atheists? Tell us more about where
you are at spiritually...
LD is an atheist that posts here for fun.
Each and every of her posts is typical rant found on atheist blogs.
Ya know, I'm ok with debating atheists here...specially in a non public specific forum. Not all are angry...and I have had some productive ones. Recently, a seeking atheist I know...actually opened his mind to "some sort of diety" just didn't like the angry hellfire ones Christians believe in...lol. I truly think more atheists are created by visceral reactions to hellfire teaching than for any other reason.
Shawn it takes (a) God to be an Atheist :-)
Many are against religion. Against the mess church made in the past.
Others are against the unscientific teaching found in translations/sites.
Note I used the word translation and not (original) Bible.
Sure atheists don't believe inGod.
But many because what church did/does.
Many are just stubborn.
I'm sure of that :-)
LD makes some very astute observations. I enjoy her posts, even when I disagree with them- as with many of my friends(I hope :o) here on Tentmaker.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on August 25, 2012, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: shawn on August 24, 2012, 03:01:42 AM
I can honestly say that I am very glad that I am a recovering drug addict and alcoholic. There are many reasons including the one you listed above. I like the fact that it makes me sensitive to the cries of other addicts. My story comforts those who are suffering. I found a new understanding of God's love for mankind as a direct result of my recovery. God turned what satan meant for my destruction into my life's work...my calling. Also, so many people go around with these feelings of being defective, insufficient etc...and they never figure out what is wrong...spiritually bankrupt and don't know where to go, what to do...have zero insight into themselves. Recovery not only changed that for me, but for my entire family. My wife is in recovery from co-dependence and also works with me helping addicts and families of addicts. God used something dark, and destructive that I had done to myself an turned it into something beautiful. And for that I give Him the glory...the thanks...and my gratitude.
Shawn, your phrase "...feelings of being defective, insufficient..." took me back some years to a time when I was beginning to face some negative issues in my own life. I prayed about it, and while still praying, I saw in my mind's eye a vast field strewn with potsherds. Some were very pretty with colored glazes and/or incised designs, and some were very plain. I knew that each shard represented a human being, and that my shard was among them. The lesson for me in that vision was that some are more beautiful, but WE ARE ALL BROKEN. It was not the answer I wanted, but I believed it, and still do.
I must have forgotten to respond to this...my apologies. That vision is beautiful and profound. It certainly beats my crude way of saying...welp guys...gals...we addicts and alcoholics don't have the monopoly on crazy :). Yes, we are all indeed broken...and the solace comes when people openly share their brokenness with others.
There are so few people and places that one can reveal personal brokenness. That kind of fellowship is what I'm looking for, but you don"t exactly find it in the yellow pages.
That is so true Deena.
Quote from: Deena on September 09, 2012, 03:48:49 PM
There are so few people and places that one can reveal personal brokenness. That kind of fellowship is what I'm looking for, but you don"t exactly find it in the yellow pages.
You are very right. What I have noticed is that environment can be created. When I first visited my current place of employment, I was set back by something unique. People were open about their struggles, and defects of character. They were able to laugh at themselves, forgive themselves and be open to, listening to others without judgment. These are healthiest bunch of crazy people I have ever met. I don't know about you all, but I ache for that. There is something about bringing our struggles to light...dragging them out of the closet...and trusting other human beings with our secrets...taking the mask off. There is healing there. I truly believe God uses the open honest fellowship of broken people as a vehicle for healing.
Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed.
Am I right in assuming that most of you don't have anyone of similiar belief to fellowship with in person?
I am in a blessed place to be a part of a home group that meets fortnightly. It has really helped define my beliefs. I really appreciate the back and forth of ideas and scriptures rather than just listening to the sound of my own voice echoing round in my head. It really helps to sort my thoughts out by just the simple task of sharing them with another person who shares my faith. I walked away from my old church life, but I thank God daily that I do have fellowship. I believe we really need it to be perfected.
If I could encourage those of you who are considering to reach out to someone, please do so. It will make your walk richer. We weren't made to walk alone.
I have several people I can fellowship with in person having also the understanding of UR. It is a definite blessing.