Deliberate Sin

[shawn]

I would like to discuss Hebrews 10:26-31 (NLT)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

   "I will take revenge.
      I will pay them back."[h]

   He also said,

   "The Lord will judge his own people."

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I have heard and read some thinking that God really isn't concerned with our sins.  The blood of Christ has forgiven past, present, and future transgressions...now we need to live in a grace walk.  I have never fully accepted that explanation.  I do believe if we sin either without knowing or with knowing we are called to move foward into spiritual maturity...focusing on Christ's sacrifice and abiding more in relationship...rather than hiding ourselfs like Adam and Eve did in the garden.  But, this appears to be a very stern warning about deliberate sin, and it's directed towards believers.

I would love to read a discussion on this topic as pertaining to these verses.

[Beloved Servant]

2 Samuel 12
New Living Translation   

Nathan Rebukes David

1 So the Lord sent Nathan the prophet to tell David this story: "There were two men in a certain town. One was rich, and one was poor. 2 The rich man owned a great many sheep and cattle. 3 The poor man owned nothing but one little lamb he had bought. He raised that little lamb, and it grew up with his children. It ate from the man's own plate and drank from his cup. He cuddled it in his arms like a baby daughter. 4 One day a guest arrived at the home of the rich man. But instead of killing an animal from his own flock or herd, he took the poor man's lamb and killed it and prepared it for his guest."

5 David was furious. "As surely as the Lord lives," he vowed, "any man who would do such a thing deserves to die! 6 He must repay four lambs to the poor man for the one he stole and for having no pity."

7 Then Nathan said to David, "You are that man! The Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king of Israel and saved you from the power of Saul. 8 I gave you your master's house and his wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more. 9 Why, then, have you despised the word of the Lord and done this horrible deed? For you have murdered Uriah the Hittite with the sword of the Ammonites and stolen his wife. 10 From this time on, your family will live by the sword because you have despised me by taking Uriah's wife to be your own.

11 "This is what the Lord says: Because of what you have done, I will cause your own household to rebel against you. I will give your wives to another man before your very eyes, and he will go to bed with them in public view. 12 You did it secretly, but I will make this happen to you openly in the sight of all Israel."

David Confesses His Guilt

13 Then David confessed to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."

Nathan replied, "Yes, but the Lord has forgiven you, and you won't die for this sin. 14 Nevertheless, because you have shown utter contempt for the Lord by doing this, your child will die."

15 After Nathan returned to his home, the Lord sent a deadly illness to the child of David and Uriah's wife. 16 David begged God to spare the child. He went without food and lay all night on the bare ground. 17 The elders of his household pleaded with him to get up and eat with them, but he refused.

18 Then on the seventh day the child died. David's advisers were afraid to tell him. "He wouldn't listen to reason while the child was ill," they said. "What drastic thing will he do when we tell him the child is dead?"

19 When David saw them whispering, he realized what had happened. "Is the child dead?" he asked.

"Yes," they replied, "he is dead."

20 Then David got up from the ground, washed himself, put on lotions,b and changed his clothes. He went to the Tabernacle and worshiped the Lord. After that, he returned to the palace and was served food and ate.

21 His advisers were amazed. "We don't understand you," they told him. "While the child was still living, you wept and refused to eat. But now that the child is dead, you have stopped your mourning and are eating again."

22 David replied, "I fasted and wept while the child was alive, for I said, 'Perhaps the Lord will be gracious to me and let the child live.' 23 But why should I fast when he is dead? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him one day, but he cannot return to me."

24 Then David comforted Bathsheba, his wife, and slept with her. She became pregnant and gave birth to a son, and David named him Solomon. The Lord loved the child 25 and sent word through Nathan the prophet that they should name him Jedidiah (which means "beloved of the Lord"), as the Lord had commanded.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: He was speaking to Jews who understood the principles of the sacrificial system. Under it, it didn't matter how many times they did the same things (if it wasn't a sin unto death) as long as they brought their sacrifice, the priests were obligated to perform what was necessary and cover their sins, BECAUSE the law could make none perfect: perfect, meaning an upright cleansed heart that no longer DESIRES to do those sins.

With the addition of His Spirit, which is able to make us perfect or complete, we have the greater accountability, because unto whom much is given, much is expected. As for the fire consuming His enemies, His enemies are not flesh and blood but powers and principalities of the air.

Continuing to allow THEM covenant with us (covenants based on blood sacrifices) when we know better, does bring the fire of judgment to them (powers and principalities) first, and because of the joining of our flesh with them, it also burns us because of allowing that stronghold a place to join itself to our hearts.

Ever do something over and over He was dealing with you about? After so long a time, the situation gets uncovered and dealt with one way or another, and it's always much worse than it would have been had we willfully dealt with it and come into covenant (agreement) with Him about whatever it was. That's the fire that WE kindled.

The fire will come regardless (to prove us like steel is tempered), the difference is if we have not joined our hearts to that thing He is dealing with, the fire only burns the bondages. Blessings..... :2c:

[shawn]

:cloud9: He was speaking to Jews who understood the principles of the sacrificial system. Under it, it didn't matter how many times they did the same things (if it wasn't a sin unto death) as long as they brought their sacrifice, the priests were obligated to perform what was necessary and cover their sins, BECAUSE the law could make none perfect: perfect, meaning an upright cleansed heart that no longer DESIRES to do those sins.

With the addition of His Spirit, which is able to make us perfect or complete, we have the greater accountability, because unto whom much is given, much is expected. As for the fire consuming His enemies, His enemies are not flesh and blood but powers and principalities of the air.

Continuing to allow THEM covenant with us (covenants based on blood sacrifices) when we know better, does bring the fire of judgment to them (powers and principalities) first, and because of the joining of our flesh with them, it also burns us because of allowing that stronghold a place to join itself to our hearts.

Ever do something over and over He was dealing with you about? After so long a time, the situation gets uncovered and dealt with one way or another, and it's always much worse than it would have been had we willfully dealt with it and come into covenant (agreement) with Him about whatever it was. That's the fire that WE kindled.

The fire will come regardless (to prove us like steel is tempered), the difference is if we have not joined our hearts to that thing He is dealing with, the fire only burns the bondages. Blessings..... :2c:

I really like this response.  Thank you for that Cardinal.

[CHB]

I would like to discuss Hebrews 10:26-31 (NLT)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

   "I will take revenge.
      I will pay them back."[h]

   He also said,

   "The Lord will judge his own people."

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I have heard and read some thinking that God really isn't concerned with our sins.  The blood of Christ has forgiven past, present, and future transgressions...now we need to live in a grace walk.  I have never fully accepted that explanation.  I do believe if we sin either without knowing or with knowing we are called to move foward into spiritual maturity...focusing on Christ's sacrifice and abiding more in relationship...rather than hiding ourselfs like Adam and Eve did in the garden.  But, this appears to be a very stern warning about deliberate sin, and it's directed towards believers.

I would love to read a discussion on this topic as pertaining to these verses.

I guess I see this a little bit different than most on the forum.

I believe the New Covenant was only for Israel. Covenants have rules and agreements associated with them  (Acts 3:25)  (Rom. 9:4) (Heb. 8:8).  All of the apostles were apostles to the Israelites, including Paul at first but then he turned to the Gentiles. Paul was given the final revelation of salvation but most of his messages were still New Covenant related. Paul wasn't able to preach what he wanted to and kept asking for prayer that he might be able to preach the gospel as he should but he wasn't allowed to preach much of the Mystery.

Paul came to see that we have been forgiven and require no more sacrificing or repenting over and over. We are forgiven of all sins, past, present, and future. We are sitting on the right hand of God in Jesus Christ. If we are sitting in Christ and that statment is true, we no longer need to ask for forgivness over and over. Wouldn't that be like offering sacrifices? If Christ has forgiven all sins why do we keep asking for forgivness? Is it because we don't trust him enough, or think that he did a good enough job?

If I paid a debt for you, would you still try to pay it again, or keep asking me if I was sure I paid it?

This might not be what you were looking for?  :dontknow:

CHB

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

I would like to discuss Hebrews 10:26-31 (NLT)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

   "I will take revenge.
      I will pay them back."[h]

   He also said,

   "The Lord will judge his own people."

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I have heard and read some thinking that God really isn't concerned with our sins.  The blood of Christ has forgiven past, present, and future transgressions...now we need to live in a grace walk.  I have never fully accepted that explanation.  I do believe if we sin either without knowing or with knowing we are called to move foward into spiritual maturity...focusing on Christ's sacrifice and abiding more in relationship...rather than hiding ourselfs like Adam and Eve did in the garden.  But, this appears to be a very stern warning about deliberate sin, and it's directed towards believers.  This is not So, It is directed towards His people, Law people transitioning out of the law

I would love to read a discussion on this topic as pertaining to these verses.

Another good read using bible referances totally is a good little book sold by the concordant.org called          How to Scripually Study Study the Scriptures

[shawn]

I would like to discuss Hebrews 10:26-31 (NLT)

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

   "I will take revenge.
      I will pay them back."[h]

   He also said,

   "The Lord will judge his own people."

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I have heard and read some thinking that God really isn't concerned with our sins.  The blood of Christ has forgiven past, present, and future transgressions...now we need to live in a grace walk.  I have never fully accepted that explanation.  I do believe if we sin either without knowing or with knowing we are called to move foward into spiritual maturity...focusing on Christ's sacrifice and abiding more in relationship...rather than hiding ourselfs like Adam and Eve did in the garden.  But, this appears to be a very stern warning about deliberate sin, and it's directed towards believers.  This is not So, It is directed towards His people, Law people transitioning out of the law

I would love to read a discussion on this topic as pertaining to these verses.

Another good read using bible referances totally is a good little book sold by the concordant.org called          How to Scripually Study Study the Scriptures

I thought believers were considered Israel.

[jabcat]

I guess I see this a little bit different than most on the forum.

I believe the New Covenant was only for Israel. Covenants have rules and agreements associated with them  (Acts 3:25)  (Rom. 9:4) (Heb. 8:8).  All of the apostles were apostles to the Israelites, including Paul at first but then he turned to the Gentiles. Paul was given the final revelation of salvation but most of his messages were still New Covenant related. Paul wasn't able to preach what he wanted to and kept asking for prayer that he might be able to preach the gospel as he should but he wasn't allowed to preach much of the Mystery.

Paul came to see that we have been forgiven and require no more sacrificing or repenting over and over. We are forgiven of all sins, past, present, and future. We are sitting on the right hand of God in Jesus Christ. If we are sitting in Christ and that statment is true, we no longer need to ask for forgivness over and over. Wouldn't that be like offering sacrifices? If Christ has forgiven all sins why do we keep asking for forgivness? Is it because we don't trust him enough, or think that he did a good enough job?

If I paid a debt for you, would you still try to pay it again, or keep asking me if I was sure I paid it?

This might not be what you were looking for?  :dontknow:

CHB

This is a very interesting thought C, one I need to "study on" some more...hmmmm

I thought believers were considered Israel.

Hi Shawn.  My own personal belief is, believers are called Israel as well, not in place of.  I think some may call it a spiritual and a natural Israel. 

One thing I base that on is where Paul talked of us (Gentiles) being adopted, grafted into the tree - not replacing it.  I believe some here (and many elsewhere) believe in a replacement theology, I do not - although God alone knows exactly who  natural Israel is.

Again, personally, I'm one that doesn't believe God is through with natural Israel.  That though they're sort of set aside for a time (until the fullness of the Gentiles) there will then come the time when they too are reconciled, when "all Israel shall be saved".  My 2 cents.  :)

[CHB]

Hi jabcat,

This is just the way I see this:

Concerning the Covenants. A Gentile had to either become an Israelite or be grafted into Israel to partake of the promises and Covenants that were made with Israel. This is what Paul preached until he was shown the Mystery. Paul came to see that Gentiles no longer had to become a part of Israel to gain salvation but that we would be a part of the Family of God. We, and Israelites who God chose to understand this are no longer required to be grafted into Israel, be baptized, or do all the things that New Covenant requires and there were some rules that were supposed to be kept. 

Israel isn't our guarantee to receive salvation anymore, it is through Jesus Christ. We no longer have to be grafted into Israel to be saved. We should be IN Jesus Christ, not Israel. We have our citizenship in the heavenlies now, not in earthly Israel.

All of that was true for a time, as far as Covenants and promises and belonging to Israel,  at least this is what was given to everyone at the time it was given. I believe truth has been a progressiveness from the beginning. Everyting won't be completely known until Christ returns.  In the beginning when the law was given to israel the only way a Gentile could be saved was to become a part of Israel. This was what everyone understood at that time. I believe from the very beginning God had planned for the whole world to be saved he just kept it hid as Paul said in (1Cor.2:7-9) (Eph. 3:4-9)  (Col. 1:26). Paul only spoke of this a few times because he was imprisoned and prevented from preaching this Mystery. I wonder if God isn't still hiding this from the world, it seems he is because most can't see that everyone will be saved and that Israel has nothing to do with it.

Here is an article that explains this better than I can. Martin isn't the only one who has written about this.  There are articles on the Concordant page as well. I don't agree with everything either of these have written about this but it makes perfect sense once you read all of the material on this. You have to get the overall picture to understand what this is about.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess009.htm

CHB









http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess009.htm

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

Hi jabcat,

This is just the way I see this:

Concerning the Covenants. A Gentile had to either become an Israelite or be grafted into Israel to partake of the promises and Covenants that were made with Israel. This is what Paul preached until he was shown the Mystery. Paul came to see that Gentiles no longer had to become a part of Israel to gain salvation but that we would be a part of the Family of God. We, and Israelites who God chose to understand this are no longer required to be grafted into Israel, be baptized, or do all the things that New Covenant requires and there were some rules that were supposed to be kept. 

Israel isn't our guarantee to receive salvation anymore, it is through Jesus Christ. We no longer have to be grafted into Israel to be saved. We should be IN Jesus Christ, not Israel. We have our citizenship in the heavenlies now, not in earthly Israel.

All of that was true for a time, as far as Covenants and promises and belonging to Israel,  at least this is what was given to everyone at the time it was given. I believe truth has been a progressiveness from the beginning. Everyting won't be completely known until Christ returns.  In the beginning when the law was given to israel the only way a Gentile could be saved was to become a part of Israel. This was what everyone understood at that time. I believe from the very beginning God had planned for the whole world to be saved he just kept it hid as Paul said in (1Cor.2:7-9) (Eph. 3:4-9)  (Col. 1:26). Paul only spoke of this a few times because he was imprisoned and prevented from preaching this Mystery. I wonder if God isn't still hiding this from the world, it seems he is because most can't see that everyone will be saved and that Israel has nothing to do with it.

Here is an article that explains this better than I can. Martin isn't the only one who has written about this.  There are articles on the Concordant page as well. I don't agree with everything either of these have written about this but it makes perfect sense once you read all of the material on this. You have to get the overall picture to understand what this is about.

http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess009.htm

CHB









http://www.askelm.com/essentials/ess009.htm

CHB   I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the return of Christ.  If you want to meet the living son of God in the flesh, then come fly to Maine and you can stay in my camper and the whole week you can eat drink talk and even shake his hand.   Oh forgot to tell you. He uses my body to do this. Through ME

[Molly]

wow.  I love Maine in August.  Blueberries, lobster, and Jesus.  Sounds like heaven to me. :winkgrin:

[CHB]

CHB   I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the return of Christ.  If you want to meet the living son of God in the flesh, then come fly to Maine and you can stay in my camper and the whole week you can eat drink talk and even shake his hand.   Oh forgot to tell you. He uses my body to do this. Through ME

Well, you are right in a sense. We are the temple and he dwells in us spiritually. We are also sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies NOW. So, are you sure you will be in your camper? I am still here in the flesh and so are you. Christ is still in the heavens, even though he resides in us. I believe he will come again.

CHB

[jabcat]

CHB   I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the return of Christ.  If you want to meet the living son of God in the flesh, then come fly to Maine and you can stay in my camper and the whole week you can eat drink talk and even shake his hand.   Oh forgot to tell you. He uses my body to do this. Through ME

Well, you are right in a sense. We are the temple and he dwells in us spiritually. We are also sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies NOW. So, are you sure you will be in your camper? I am still here in the flesh and so are you. Christ is still in the heavens, even though he resides in us. I believe he will come again.

CHB

I agree, it's both things.   I believe His Spirit is in us now (those spiritually reborn) and one day we will see HIM face to face. 

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

CHB   I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the return of Christ.  If you want to meet the living son of God in the flesh, then come fly to Maine and you can stay in my camper and the whole week you can eat drink talk and even shake his hand.   Oh forgot to tell you. He uses my body to do this. Through ME

Well, you are right in a sense. ( so I feel a little of the old church system in that statement)  We are the temple and he dwells in us spiritually. We are also sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies NOW. So, are you sure you will be in your camper? I am still here in the flesh and so are you. ( I sense a major seperation between you and God in the last statement , in the sense that you feel seperated from Him in some way. That cant happen when you know where He really is. IN us for ever...) Christ is still in the heavens,   ( the heavens,, Well the heavens are within )even though he resides in us. I believe he will come again. I believe He will 'never' stop comming
and coming and coming and coming, every time life births in this new heaven he made, us. ( where in there is life )  or I should put it more point blank for some people... if there is a place where there is an atom and space between the atoms , there in He is....

CHB

[CHB]

I believe He will 'never' stop comming
[/color] and coming and coming and coming, every time life births in this new heaven he made, us. ( where in there is life )  or I should put it more point blank for some people... if there is a place where there is an atom and space between the atoms , there in He is....

Would you explain that a little bit more please?

I believe at some point in time there will be an end to things as we know them now, else how could there be no more tears, sorrow, or evil.?

CHB

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

to my understanding  it is simple.

no more tears, pain sorrow, death, (evil)  When God LIVES in you , all those things that were threatening in your past life of ( without God within ) are no longer an issue when they happen. They just fall off you like water in a down pour.  And All things will keep happening for many generations , earth quakes, floods, and many more. For as long as God is Alive.

An end to all things. Yes. I believe that when my wife dies, that all her essence goes in God and Me. God and me and you are forever.....

[Molly]

When God LIVES in you , all those things that were threatening in your past life of ( without God within ) are no longer an issue when they happen.

I agree with this, even when God is close to you.  He is the comforter.

[CHB]

to my understanding  it is simple.

no more tears, pain sorrow, death, (evil)  When God LIVES in you , all those things that were threatening in your past life of ( without God within ) are no longer an issue when they happen. They just fall off you like water in a down pour.  And All things will keep happening for many generations , earth quakes, floods, and many more. For as long as God is Alive.

I wish that were true but my husband is suffering terribly,  so am I from the sorrow of watching him suffer. I will have to say that I think I can handle things a lot better than those that don't have God in their lives but the pain, sorrow, death, evil, even sin is still here for us all to deal with. Surely God has better things in store for those that love him? Does this mean that death, pain sorrow and every thing else will be around till ages without end?

An end to all things. Yes. I believe that when my wife dies, that all her essence goes in God and Me. God and me and you are forever.....

I got the idea from what you said that we were already there?  :dontknow:

CHB

[Beloved Servant]

When God LIVES in you , all those things that were threatening in your past life of ( without God within ) are no longer an issue when they happen.

I agree with this, even when God is close to you.  He is the comforter.

Philippians 4:7;
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

[Beloved Servant]

John 14:27;
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

[Beloved Servant]

Acts 12:6 ;
The night before Herod was to bring him to trial, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains, and sentries stood guard at the entrance. 7 Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. "Quick, get up!" he said, and the chains fell off Peter's wrists.


Here, Peter shows the peace that can only come from God.

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

to my understanding  it is simple.

no more tears, pain sorrow, death, (evil)  When God LIVES in you , all those things that were threatening in your past life of ( without God within ) are no longer an issue when they happen. They just fall off you like water in a down pour.  And All things will keep happening for many generations , earth quakes, floods, and many more. For as long as God is Alive.

I wish that were true but my husband is suffering terribly,  so am I from the sorrow of watching him suffer. I will have to say that I think I can handle things a lot better than those that don't have God in their lives but the pain, sorrow, death, evil, even sin is still here for us all to deal with. ( IMO death is gone, evil is a made up belief , sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year. )Surely God has better things in store for those that love him? Does this mean that death, pain sorrow and every thing else will be around till ages without end?

An end to all things. Yes. I believe that when my wife dies, that all her essence goes in God and Me. God and me and you are forever.....

I got the idea from what you said that we were already there?  :dontknow:

CHB

high lighted and added what I think is ok, sorry about your other Half

[Beloved Servant]

Acts 12:6 ;
The night before Herod was to bring him to trial, Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains, and sentries stood guard at the entrance. 7 Suddenly an angel of the Lord appeared and a light shone in the cell. He struck Peter on the side and woke him up. "Quick, get up!" he said, and the chains fell off Peter's wrists.


Here, Peter shows the peace that can only come from God.

Matthew 14:30;
But seeing the wind strong, he was afraid: and when he began to sink, he cried out, saying: Lord, save me.


Here, Peter shows us what happens when we take our eyes off Jesus. We sink right back into our own understanding.

[CHB]

( IMO death is gone, evil is a made up belief , sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year. )

This is just like the thing where we are sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father.

We know spiritually that these things will be finished and spiritually they are finished but as long as we are here in this body of flesh and blood these things exist. As far as sin existing, it does, because there are those today who still keep the Old Law of Moses. I see it all as a process. Just like progressive revelation, it started in the garden and has been revealed more and more as time goes by.  Are you a full preterist?

CHB

[HartleyIrvinDamboiseII]

( IMO death is gone, evil is a made up belief , sin is no longer , unless your a Law follower then Christ will profit you nothing and you have to use the law to get clean again for a year till next year. )

This is just like the thing where we are sitting in Christ on the right hand of the Father.

We know spiritually that these things will be finished and spiritually they are finished but as long as we are here in this body of flesh and blood these things exist. As far as sin existing, it does, because there are those today who still keep the Old Law of Moses. I see it all as a process. Just like progressive revelation, it started in the garden and has been revealed more and more as time goes by.  Are you a full preterist?

CHB

For one thing. sin existing ?   " I do NOT think SO "  well there are millions of people in the flesh living out a life not knowing that God " has made them eternal beings" past tense. i.e. they just have not been awakened by God YET. that does not mean that they are not of God. It means they don't know Him. When YOU come to the understanding that He knows you and You know Him and another step is to become one , when that happens for each person, things change in your thinking.

As for your thinking of " this body of flesh" where do you think God LIVES sense the resurrection?????  In this earth and that is and was His Second Coming.

As far as preterist, I don't use labels because for one I don't completely understand that word. Most people that have called me that mostly mean something bad. so I guess I have to disagree

but if you want to tell me what is the issue of a preterist to you that is ok. because I am not a person that can be offended in any way. I take all words as wisdom
lee