Christmas

[gijane02]

I was wondering what everyone thought of Christmas?I know there is a post about Santa, but I was just curious. I am assuming most of us know about its pagan origins, and that Jesus was not born on that day. For me the holiday season is just about my family and that's it. I don't like to go out shopping during this time(I'm broke!) and I don't bother with decorations because I'm too lazy  :happygrin: How does everyone like to celebrate Christmas and New Years? I'm bored talk to me! :girlheart:

[hopeful]

Well, gijane, I see you're not on line now but I'll still talk to you!!   :HeartThrob:

Through the years I've been asked if I celebrate Christmas and I like to say, "It depends on the year!"

Seems like I'm always trying something different;  celebrate- not celebrate, all spiritual - not spiritual at all...  I always like to decorate to one degree or another.  It's a pretty season.  I love to see the reflection of lights in my little boy's eyes.   :giveheart: I love Christmas cookies and Christmas presents and I love to say, "Merry Christmas!"

I bless everyone whether they observe days or not and I'm all for celebrating anything and everything- most of all life!

[gijane02]

cool! :Sparkletooth: You're right, it's definitely pretty. We used to drive around when I was a teen with my mom and look at the decorations on peoples houses. We saw Evander Hollifields house once and WOW! :mshock:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The Lord took it away from me once; once I laid it down, it didn't matter anymore, as once laid down it was just another day, to celebrate or not celebrate, as He leads. Like Paul pointed out, the idols themselves are nothing; it's the spirit behind the idols that He is interested in making sure we are free from. ANYTHING we can't lay down, the moment we can't lay it down, it becomes an idol,  but all things are cleansed by going thru the fire (of laying it down).

I think this will be my last year probably, as He is leading me in another direction, yet again. Doesn't matter; what does matter is following His leadings. Blessings to you.....

[noreputation]

:cloud9: The Lord took it away from me once; once I laid it down, it didn't matter anymore, as once laid down it was just another day, to celebrate or not celebrate, as He leads. Like Paul pointed out, the idols themselves are nothing; it's the spirit behind the idols that He is interested in making sure we are free from. ANYTHING we can't lay down, the moment we can't lay it down, it becomes an idol,  but all things are cleansed by going thru the fire (of laying it down).

I think this will be my last year probably, as He is leading me in another direction, yet again. Doesn't matter; what does matter is following His leadings. Blessings to you.....

Hi R.C.

The Lord took Christmas from me many years ago.  It wasn't hard to give up because it was always such a depressing time since it was a reminder of my parents divorce and the poverty I experienced as a child. 

Diana and I never wanted NOT celebrating Christmas to be a negative with our children so since we didn't celebrate it, we would go to a homeless shelter and make breakfast for everyone.  That gave the workers who did celebrate Christmas a chance to stay home with their families.

Several years later my wife wanted to exchange gifts to keep peace with her family so we did compromise in that way. 

R.C.  what do you mean by that you are being led in a new direction?

Doug

[Redkora]

I enjoy celebrating the season with my family.

[Molly]

ANYTHING we can't lay down, the moment we can't lay it down, it becomes an idol,  but all things are cleansed by going thru the fire (of laying it down).

Boy, I hear you.  I know exactly what you mean.  There was a time in my life when idols were coming down so fast I could hear the cords binding me to them snapping.

Christmas is one of them, but I still love the season and would wish everyone the happiness it has given me.




Luke 14:28
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

[Kratos]

We laid it down about 15 years ago. It was harder on my wife than on me because her family really makes a bod deal out of it. My son is 15 and mentioned for the first time this year that he felt her missed out. I never thought he felt that way.

It is definately less of an offense to me now as it once was. I no longer focus on the pagan part (Jer. 10 idolatry and all). Now it is just following the Lord's example that a Son only does what the Father tells him to do and the Bible does not tell us to do it.

Definately a "to each his own thing" now. One person esteems the day to the Lord and one does not esteem it to the Lord.

John

[reFORMer]

If some of you have detracting evidences concerning Christmas celebrations in a form easy to post could you put them here?  I'd like to review what the seemingly legitimate complaints are.  Some I remember.  Some I found missed the truth of the matter.

I enjoy the truth part, singing carols with friends (night after night this year,) and it is a good excuse for showing kindness to others.  I believe a disciple of Jesus more and more loves to give.  This season takes the personal question, "Why would you do this for me?" out of the way.  After all, it's Christmas!  You can get away with showing affection without getting blamed.  Think of all the great books that can be given in the guise of a Christmas present, books they might actually read and become changed.

One very dangerous thing about any holiday is years of repeated celebrations become a trained response in our consciousness that when it for some reason occurs in an opposite manner we can undergo extreme depression.  One year I'd been trying to find a room to rent in Northern Minnesota.  A couple of friends of mine said that if they hadn't seen it they wouldn't've believed it.  It was that unusual, the string of events making me have nowhere to live.  While this wasn't the first or last homeless Christmas, it was the first right at Christmas.  My friends had things they had to do with their own families.  They weren't old enough to demand their own way at home (if we ever are.)  I'm not sure they realized what happened to me.  I still felt abandoned by them.  I was older, in my mid twenties and supposed to be able to get my own food by then.  Of course it doesn't actually grow out from under anybody's arms.  The supply of our need is of mercy.  I did have keys to the basement of a condemned building so I was at least out of the wind.  It was well below zero but I was OK, bundled with blankets.  Nevertheless, I bawled my eyes out, begging God for some kind of understanding, some kind of answer for the week or two I was there.  I determined to not allow my heart to be trapped like that again.  A lot of people don't survive the emotional suffering that a bad holiday can compound.  If you do partake of these seasons of joy, teach your children a certain detachment for their own good.  Tell them a story like mine or even someone whose depression caused them to so wastefully kill themselves.  They can do better with such a reference in their memory for their protection should the need arise.

---James Rohde

[Kratos]

Not sure I exactly understand the question, but here are a few things I have seen:

(1) The Bible shows throughout the OT that God is very particular about holy days (holidays). God never mentions celibrating Jesus' birth so as a Son I don't do it.

(2) Many can deny it, but the "spirit" behind this holiday is coveting and greed. I saw my Mom go into deep debt every Christmas and take half the next year to catch up every year and we still wanted more.

(3) There are more suicides and marital strifes and loneliness this time of year than all the rest combined. Why is this the fruit of the season if God is in it?

(4) Taking a tree in and decorating it and laying presents under it is a pagan practice that God condemns in Jer. 10 and other places. Trees and groves were always attached to pagan worship of Baal. It is an abomination for God's people to follow the religious practices of the heathen.

(5) It is always an indication that God is not in it if the world and the lost partake so easily. The things of the spirit cannot be understood or received by the natural man for they are spiritually discerned.

(6) God detests solemn assemblies that are not from the heart and Christians who attend only on Christmas and Easter show such insincerity in their relationship with the Lord it seems.

(7) Satan and the world has created many tools to keep people knowing Jesus after the flesh. We are commanded to know Him as He is and not as we once knew Him in the flesh. They will promote one holiday to know Him as a harmless baby in a manger and they will promote another to know Him as a defeated man hanging on a cross. The enemy does not want the world to know Him as the resurrected Lord of Glory in whose Name we are all commanded to be saved. He is Lord of Heaven and Earth and not the "baby Jesus" anymore. To remember Him this way is totally contrary to the command of scripture and keeps us from being like Him by knowing Him as He is.

I hope everyone knows I am just answering what was asked. I long ago gave up on ruining Christmas for others. I just thank God that I am not longer a part.

God Bless us, God Bless us every one,

John

[hopeful]

I can't really add anything to your list, John, except that we thought Christmas was "worldly" but then again, just about everything was!  Sports, parades, fairs- anything that was fun- was worldly.

It was very hard on my third son during the years when we stopped celebrating Christmas.  We never realized the message we sent him.  He never said anything- but I knew it and now that we're celebrating it for our youngest boy, the third son has admitted it in a round about way...  "Yeah, now that I leave home, you start celebrating Christmas again."   :sigh:

My mom used to exhaust herself every Christmas and complain about it and I vowed to never do that.  If I feel like sending out cards- I do.  If I don't- I don't!  It's the same with all the other traditions and cultural practices of my home land.  If I want to, I do, if I don't, I won't but I won't condemn others.

:HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi Doug; the Lord gave me a dream. In the dream, I was with what I knew to be Jews that someone took me into. They were sitting at a table, including one I knew by the Spirit to be a Holocaust survivor. The Spirit in me wanted to go into travail mode for him, I could feel it, but not wanting to offend them, I made excuse to go to the bathroom. Once in there (it was a large public bathroom wherever we were), I opened a stall to go in and pray as privately as possible, and when I did, there was a huge decorated Christmas tree in my way, so that I was unable to go into intercession. I got the message.

Years ago, I asked Him to send me to the Jews when I realized that the things He was giving me at that time, would speak to them more so than Christians. He gave me His love for them, and accommodated me by having someone send a flyer to a Christian friend of mine, about the 5th Messianic convention 2 weeks before it was held. She said she couldn't figure out why she got it and was going to throw it away, when the Lord told her to keep it, that it was for me. This was about 12 years ago. He used me to minister to one Jewish man when I went, who had just met the Lord about a week before,and was struggling with it, and I got to give out what I was given. He had not yet read the NT.

Then this year, though an amazing set of "coincidences" I find out my bloodline is actually of the Sephardic Jews that left parts of Europe to escape the Inquisition, which meant He wasn't kidding when in another dream several years ago, (in which He had me telling someone in the dream what denom I was), I replied, "I guess you could say, I'm a Jewish Christian."

So having said all this, it should not be a surprise that, at least for a season, I'm about to go fellowship in a Messianic synagogue. Maybe this will result in my dream of seeing the old man from the Holocaust, I don't know. I know I have met people in my dreams from the Lord, long before I ever met them in the flesh. So that's my story, LOL.......Blessings to all......

[CHB]

I believe I will have to go with John on this one. 

I have often wondered why people celebrate Christ birthday on December 25 when he was born in September? Why not celebrate it in the month he was born in? Because it was celebrated as a Roman Mass before Christ was ever born, Christ name was just attached to this pagan holiday later.

Also, if someone celebrated my birthday on Hitler's birthday, but said it was my birthday, I believe I would be offended.

Celebrating Christmas wouldn't be so bad if everyone just left Christ out of it. I hear every year, "lets put Christ back into Christmas". Well, he was never in Christmas in the first place. Celebrate it for what it is, why attach Christ to a pagan holiday?

I bet if people started celebrating Christmas as it was originally celebrated and left Christ out of it and called it a pagan holiday, which it is, everyone would think twice about celebrating it.

I remember as a child we were very poor and most of the time I never got anything for Christmas. Mama would tell me I had to be good or Santa wouldn't visit me. When nothing came on Christmas day, I felt like the worst human being, wondering what I did that was so bad. I saw other kids get things that I knew, or thought had done things worse than me. This had an effect on me as a child. If I had known the truth, I know I would have accepted the situation much better. My children grew up not celebrating Christmas, They were told the truth and they were none the worse for it.

I also must say, I don't think not celebrating Christmas makes one any better and celebrating it doesn't make one any worse.

CHB

[noreputation]

:cloud9:

So having said all this, it should not be a surprise that, at least for a season, I'm about to go fellowship in a Messianic synagogue. Maybe this will result in my dream of seeing the old man from the Holocaust, I don't know. I know I have met people in my dreams from the Lord, long before I ever met them in the flesh. So that's my story, LOL.......Blessings to all......

R.C.,  You live an interesting life!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't know about that, but it has had it's challenges, that's for sure. I have (for a season) been the only white woman in an Native American church, and the only white woman in an all black church, and I can state without hesitation that no matter where HE sends you, His Spirit of unconditional love can break down all the walls of partition that keep men bound and unable to see HIM. So if I happen to be the only "gentile" in this Messianic church, so be it! He is just awesome beyond words, and I give Him praise this day!  :HeartThrob: Blessings to all.........

[Molly]

Then this year, though an amazing set of "coincidences" I find out my bloodline is actually of the Sephardic Jews that left parts of Europe to escape the Inquisition, which meant He wasn't kidding when in another dream several years ago, (in which He had me telling someone in the dream what denom I was), I replied, "I guess you could say, I'm a Jewish Christian."

Don't you think we all probably are?  Otherwise how would we know his voice?  And, ten of the twelve tribes went missing long before he ever came to earth for them, those who would be greater in number than the stars in the sky...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You know Molly, I've wondered about that......it's a possibility. Blessings to you.....

[jfraysse]

I have no problems with brothers and sisters who have hard-line issues with "The World's Christmas".  But for me, after Christ's Advent, all things not illegal and that don't violate one's good conscience are permissible for Christians. I have made sure my whole family knows the good, the bad and the ugly components of the Christian legacy as well as it's direct ties to paganism.

IMHO, life is too short not to celebrate and, might I add, that Christmas and Easter, though void of commands to memorialize and with unquestionably pagan roots, are the only times during the year when many of "the lost" openly and unabashedly sing words of praise to Jesus.  They come to church.  They sing the songs.  They participate in the services.  "Something" draws them - I wonder who?  Surely, in some cases, it's God's Spirit.

I must admit that a part of me wants to say, "bah, humbug" primarily because of all of the commercialism, but alas, I am compelled to wish you all a Merry Christmas! 

During this Season, let us all Thank God for Blessing us – everyone!

By His Grace and In His Peace, John (the other) :HeartThrob:

[CHB]

Something" draws them - I wonder who?  Surely, in some cases, it's God's Spirit.jfraysse

Yes, it's all because God sees fit for these things to be. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven (Ecc. 3:1).

CHB

[gijane02]

Hello everyone. great responses! I just feel so blessed to be with family that I do not get to see all of the time. The older I get the more I feel that is what this holiday season, and each and every day should be about. Being thankful is soo much better than dealing with all of the commercialism, the craziness,the debt, etc. I got a lot from everyone's responses about telling their children why they do not celebrate. I won't feel bad about it like it's horrible thing that will scar them for life :rolleye:

[fire walker]

What I remember of Chrstmas during my childhood only left me with questions for years and these very questions must have came from the spirit leading me into a desire to study and search for the truth.

Our grandmother on my fathers side became involved with the JW's and did not
celebrate christmas, well to cut the story short she loved to cook and was great at setting a feast on the table for large numbers of people and it was good that she was blessed so because, she had 9 children, so we had 2 aunts and 6 uncles, imagine the count on the number of our cousins, many of them if not most were older than I or my brother, she had a table set to feed us all on christmas gatherings at her house and most of the food was grown at home, meat and vegetables all provided from the work of our grandfather.

They would let  a christmas tree be put up outside on their front porch but not in the house and she would talk about how sad it was that so many in the family had gotten
caught up in the clutches of old Satan by celebrating christmas, old saint Nick and the easter bunny rabits who lay eggs!

Since we loved grandpa and grandma, I was drawn to study about these things, christmas, easter and all these other things when I became old enough to do so, grandma was not religious acting about being JW or getting poeple to go to Kingdom hall as far as trying to get others to be indoctrinated or pursuaded to that way of believing, the JW's in general have a strong history of trying to convert people to follow Russells teachings, and that is what it is, doctrines of a man., she did not fit the general mold of going out and passing out their religious teachings.

So to me after all these years I niether promote christmas nor condemn it, we are told not to know our fellow man after the flesh, so weather one celebrates christmas in the spirit of Charity and giving ( which can be with us any day of the year)  or does not is not my place to preach what any man should do regarding such things.

And Peter seeing him John, asked Jesus what should this man do?
Jesus answer was a rebuke when he answered and said "if I will that a man TERRY until I come what is that to you? Just you follow me"

With what I received from that passage a number of years ago I can see that we only give account for our own walk by faith and not the account of any other man that we should trespass and say you should do this and not do that, that is how I have been lead to view celebrating christmas.

Peace,
Fire Walker

[hopeful]

And Peter seeing him John, asked Jesus what should this man do?
Jesus answer was a rebuke when he answered and said "if I will that a man TERRY until I come what is that to you? Just you follow me"

With what I received from that passage a number of years ago I can see that we only give account for our own walk by faith and not the account of any other man that we should trespass and say you should do this and not do that, that is how I have been lead to view celebrating christmas.

Peace,
Fire Walker

:gthumbsup:

[CrossoverManiac]

I hate to use thread necromancy, but I think you should hear from the other side of the argument before declaring Christmas to be evil.

[Wint O Green]

Hey everyone. Christmas is right around the corner I really dont even want to think about it. The month of December is a depressing time of the year yet happy because we celebrate the birth of our Lord, although the month of December may or may not be the day Jesus was born, but Christ understands that we are celebrating Him and Him alone! Brother Doug, we and I say we because im talking of my family here, feel down during this time because my grandma passed away early December. It came unexpectedly, its just hard because all we think of is her going, and I know she is in a better place, but you know the pain remains. As God tells us, soon very soon we will no longer suffer pain, because He will wipe  all tears away for all of us and we will experience peace and joy  :happygrin:. The joy that comes in the month of December is knowing that we have a Savior who was born to save us of our sin! We have life in Him, and we are made new because of Him, for with out Him we are nothing! I believe thats the BEST gift any of us could ever have. I dont think I care much about gifts anymore, all I want is Jesus and His peace and blessings for all my family and for all my Brothers and Sisters in Jesus :HeartThrob:. Thank You!  :happygrin:

[martincisneros]

I've never liked the spirit of anyone by any remote stretch that fights really hard to take the holidays away from us.  Their arguments about commercialism are anarchist political ideas and not sound religious/spiritual arguments.  Suddenly this one time of the year they hypocritically oppose coveteousness when they don't generally oppose it in themselves and others the other 364 days of the year anywhere near as passionately and vocally.  What about all of the Christians that honestly do find deep meaning in reading the first couple of chapters of Matthew and Luke during this time period?  Are we to take that away from them in the name of "the interest on that could have been given to the poor" when you wouldn't have anyway if given the chance?

Most of the people that argue against Christmas never see fit to celebrate His birth during any other time of the year, though a favorite cliche of theirs will be that they celebrate His birth every single day, when with judgment day honesty they really don't.  They haven't even had communion since the last time they heard me bring it up!  Parents that get snooty about it tend to pass on a Pharisaical spirit or a worse "twice the son of Hell" spirit to their kids that though perhaps not evident to them personally, it still winds up being evident to their classmates at school that think that they're just religious nuts and scrooges trying to take away the special wine that Jesus does seem to turn many people's water into at this time of year.  If an Old Covenant deliverer can be present in a basket floating down a river, I have no doubt that the heart of the New Covenant Deliverer can be present in a box flowing from a heart of love from the store to being underneath the Christmas tree at home!

And then you've got the Judas Iscariot argument that some Christians love to throw around that if it's Jesus' birthday, then why are we giving each other presents?  Jesus' biggest desires are our wholeness, sanctification, and happiness in union with His heavenly Father.  How many of us over the years have wound up getting shoes and socks from somebody, at least once in our lives, during the Christmas holiday? So on this one day of all days Jesus is particularly opposed to our washing of one another's feet and anointing them with our tears with the credit card bills and interest we were going to use on ourselves anyway, if we didn't do it for one another???  Didn't Jesus say that what you've done to the least of these, His brethren, you've done to Him? 

Particularly Christians that oppose the tithe are on the thinnest of ice where other Christians are concerned in opposing generocity at this special time of the year.  Will the opposition to generocity in the name of being motivated by the Spirit never end?  I can already hear the Judas spirit against a child of God being given a diamond ring or some piece of jewelry at this time of the year: "that could have been given to the poor instead!!"  That's typically from the very person who does squat for the poor the other 364 days of the year and even steals from the bag of Jesus' ministry in the name of their liberties in Christ so that they wind up selling out some part of His ministry in the earth for 30 pieces of silver in their attempt to replenish the bag of what Jesus is doing in the earth before they get caught.  The second His kindness is haulted in someone else's life by the Judas spirit "trying to cover" for what they've denied His ministry every step of the way thus far, it's as though He's crucified again and doubts regarding His being the saviour of Israel re-enter many hearts. 

The battle never ends.  I can hear the sermons adapted from the epistle of James about show me your faith without your generocity and I'll show you my faith by my generocity!  I'm reminded of the wicked servant -- perhaps the wickedest man in the whole Bible -- who buries his talent on the assumption that he has a wicked Master that'll be hard on him because He supposedly reaps where He didn't sow.  Nobody in the history of the Creation has ever reaped where they didn't sow!  In the Name of His Sovereignty, they were calling Him a thief!  Christmas time is one of only two times of the year when you can successfully give cards to your religious fundamentalist friends, neighbors, and enemies celebrating the "Saviour of the World" when much of their Pharisaism against the Saviour of the World message is laid aside and they'll sing "Joy to the World" with you.  We should all find or design a really nice Saviour of the World Christmas card with an appropriate "Christmas Scripture" and towards the end of the second week of December we should mail it to everyone we're acquainted with that opposes the Universal Restoration on their religious exclusivity grounds.