Hi folks. I got an email today that I thought might make for an interesting discussion. It's probably been discussed before. The person has been a Christian for many decades but still finds the urge within to sin and sometimes gives in. The question is: If I am a new creation why is my sinful nature so strong. I would like to be free from sin,but there is still a desire which gets awakened to sin. Thoughts?
Because we are in the flesh.
Paul said, "for that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that do I" (Rom. 7:15, 20) "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
As long as we are in these fleshly bodies, this flesh will war against the spirit and we will do things that we shouldn't, or don't want to do. If Christ is dwelling in us then we are not under condemnation because we walk after the spirit and not the flesh. What I mean by that is, when God looks at me at the judgment he will see Christ and what he did, not what I do or have done.
I think this life is a learning experience, that is, we are learning good verses bad. We will experience and learn from both. I think about Solomon who was the wisest man in the world and you know why? Soloman experienced everything under the sun that is why he was wise, he learned from good and bad. He probably made all kinds of mistakes and learned from them. I don't think that is the best way to learn some things, we can use Solomon as an example, maybe that is why his story is in the Bible?
CHB
Quote from: CHB on June 18, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Because we are in the flesh.
Paul said, "for that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that do I" (Rom. 7:15, 20) "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
As long as we are in these fleshly bodies, this flesh will war against the spirit and we will do things that we shouldn't, or don't want to do. If Christ is dwelling in us then we are not under condemnation because we walk after the spirit and not the flesh. What I mean by that is, when God looks at me at the judgment he will see Christ and what he did, not what I do or have done.
I think this life is a learning experience, that is, we are learning good verses bad. We will experience and learn from both. I think about Solomon who was the wisest man in the world and you know why? Soloman experienced everything under the sun that is why he was wise, he learned from good and bad. He probably made all kinds of mistakes and learned from them. I don't think that is the best way to learn some things, we can use Solomon as an example, maybe that is why his story is in the Bible?
CHB
:iagree: :HeartThrob: It all comes down to His Love.
Ditto CHB and Micah
Thats right , that no man can boast in his own flesh saying look what I done !
we are overcome , the saints even are overcome by the flood of evil lies
But we have the sure promises of God that though FAITH IN Christ WORK being in us though and BY His Spirit we too can overcome the world and its death , the world does NOT know God
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, [even] our faith.
Four posts, four :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: CHB on June 18, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Because we are in the flesh.
Paul said, "for that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that do I" (Rom. 7:15, 20) "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
As long as we are in these fleshly bodies, this flesh will war against the spirit and we will do things that we shouldn't, or don't want to do. If Christ is dwelling in us then we are not under condemnation because we walk after the spirit and not the flesh. What I mean by that is, when God looks at me at the judgment he will see Christ and what he did, not what I do or have done.
I think this life is a learning experience, that is, we are learning good verses bad. We will experience and learn from both. I think about Solomon who was the wisest man in the world and you know why? Soloman experienced everything under the sun that is why he was wise, he learned from good and bad. He probably made all kinds of mistakes and learned from them. I don't think that is the best way to learn some things, we can use Solomon as an example, maybe that is why his story is in the Bible?
CHB
Absolutely! I remember a recent sin I fell into, and I learned from it. I knew it had happened for a reason, and was soon to learn what I would learn from it. The thing is, I didn't continue to sin after the lesson. :thumbsup:
Oh my, this is my fifth attempt at replying to this topic as well as a couple of other topics (Dreams and Visions; Cursing) -- the scripture that I had originally planned to reference when I read it in context just seemed appropriate for all three threads.
2 Cor 12:1, 7-8 (NLT)
v. 1 ... visions and revelations...
v. 7 ... I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.
v. 8 Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. Each time, He said. 'My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.'
and I'm often reminded: there but for the grace of God, go I
:thumbsup: so true Gods grace is sufficent :HeartThrob:
Paul made the statement" It is no longer I who lives but Christ Who lives in me,"
We are paid for in full by Christ. We make mistakes so that we can learn from our mistakes since wisdom comes through experience.
When I see my grandchild make a mistake I do not say he is no longer my grandson, rather I correct in a loving manner. How can he know what he has done unless it is explained to him. To do that in a negative aggressive manner puts would instill fear and a sense of failure.
No wonder many are depressed when they are constantly put down for something they have done wrong.
We are told the gospel is GOOD NEWS.
Christ sets us free from the law of sin and death.
His works are greater than Adam's efforts.
We have a promise of life in the ages to come, and protection for here and now.
The protection of the shield of faith is the knowledge that Christ has paid in full, not my personal efforts.
Indeed well said CHB.
So may His grace shine on you and give you peace.
Hi Again;
Also pretty positive is the fact that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
Psalms 32;2 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,whose sins are covered.Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not count
against him,and in whose spirit is no deceit. Romans 4;4-8
He has made loving provision for us all while still in this state...and the time will come when we shall all be completely delivered...
...sometimes, too, I think people get carried away with what is sin.. although if sin is imperfection, which to me it is, then I guess that covers a LOT!
But I think Christians (some anyway) can have a tendency to worry too much. And expect too much from their self. Do we sometimes get impatient? angry? even perhaps a cuss find its way across our lips? but didn't Jesus provide the forgiveness, so why beat ourselves up over it? Repent of it and get over it.. For to repent is to be cleansed..
Do we sometimes have a judgmental or nongracious thought? Do we perhaps eat too much on Thanksgiving? Or feel the pull of an old habit such as smoking? Or alcohol if we had a problem? I say if there was a problem for having a couple of beers, to me, is no sin, which of course I can back up by scripture, but many Christians think it is.. whereas of course drunkenness is!!
I think there's a tendency to worry way too much.. now if we were wanting to defraud, had stolen, committed adultery (or done so with the eyes, a big trap, that one should worry if keeps coming up of course)
But basically.. most of us don't get the urge to murder, to steal, defraud.. assault.. or even commit adultery in the heart..
And of course the closer our walk with the Lord, the less pull toward any of these things..
And here of course is the paradox (which may have been mentioned already) but the more concerned we are with "the law" and "the flesh" as to trying to 'be good' in our piddly strength, the worse our case will be and becomes!! For law mixed with grace dilutes grace of its POWER.
I really think for those who truly love the Lord and our heavenly Father, we have one rule - to love God.. for if we do love YHWH/God Almighty, we will seek to abide in Him and under His wing and shadow, and will actively seek and love (worship) Him.. which fills us up with Him, who is love, therefor love will flow through us, and "love works no ill" and we shall love our fellow person, which really, isn't thAt where it's at?
On a personal note.. as to why sometimes, and in case i came across as having no struggles, never failing, etc, since mneopause began i've been having a terrible problem since finding myself once again doing childcare, so easily angered, which i have to guard, one reason being as I have the two small children weekdays and don't want to be all the time annoyed and irritated (during evening duties either!).. but then too, my quiet times with the Lord have been greatly reduced so the strength and grace I need has been harder to come by.
The reason? as some of you have talked about.. I was wondering about that, because after prolonged anger comes deep dark depression and yes, thAt is a sin i greatly wish to avoid.. yet I did find out (and am doing better since:) that the anger and frustration i was feeling very definitely had a reason and a good one.. there was something needed to be gotten out of the way..
the other evening, as the sun was slanting its beautiful peridot rays under the trees (a time of day i love, the cool of the evening) i did get the chance for some quality time with the Lord, and had a 'breakthrough' - and i hope no one is bothered by my sharing it :eek: :icon_jokercolor: , but i don't have a church body and well, sometimes one just wants to share with fellow believers.. the Lord showed when i feel limited, can't do the things i want, can't pursue the Lord as i like, etc, i feel smothered.. i remember being smothered as punishments as a child, but have never remembered the feelings.. fighting, screaming, yes, can remember some of the episodes, but not any feelings i felt.. you likely see where this is going.. if i feel smothered in life, the original anger was coming up.. and out.. and thus was i feeling more annoyance, irritation and anger than normally would..
This was exactly the question i had been asking the Lord, why was i feeling so very out of sorts? (when i love Him so much)? i have the same circumstances going on but am doing much better because of this breakthrough/deliverance, which inside my being was surely needed.. praise JaH!! :gsmile:
wow !
This is a great thread ,
Its a healer of sorts , blessed by all those sharing ,
Forgiven going forward , not turning back , cannot go back to where you come out of , your mind has no pleasure in those things anylonger
Truly its a pressing on into it as we become more and more dependant on the Lord 's help and less and less lost and wandering and much more thankful ,
to a loving and living God that you know on a personal level now , not just some God you heard about from others .
Quote from: anna274 on June 19, 2013, 01:37:57 AM
During one of the times that I was really, really angry with myself, I literally yelled (I have to yell, I have a very soft, gentle voice!!!) O Father, why, why am I still being so unloving toward ______? His answer? Paul, revelation, thorn. So, of course, I looked for that Scripture.
2 Cor 12:1, 7-8 (NLT)
v. 1 ... visions and revelations...
v. 7 ... I have received such wonderful revelations from God. So to keep me from becoming proud, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan to torment me and keep me from becoming proud.
v. 8 Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away. Each time, He said. 'My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.'
Quote from: CHB on June 18, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Because we are in the flesh.
Paul said, "for that which I do I allow not: for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that do I" (Rom. 7:15, 20) "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
:dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
I can so relate to this.
Paul was obviously frustrated in both these instances. I have heard many people speculate on what Paul's thorn was. One of the main theories out there is that it was poor eyesight. However, I think it was perhaps an issue of a tendency toward a particular sin (perhaps an attitude toward gentiles, a weakness for alcohol, or an issue of a sexually immoral nature - not that he was immoral, not that he practiced sin, but that he had the temptation that tormented him - and maybe he even succumbed to it on occasions). God uses the weak, the unwise, the social misfits - for in Jesus we become strong, wise, and fit for the Kingdom of God.
:dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
QuoteI can so relate to this.
Paul was obviously frustrated in both these instances. I have heard many people speculate on what Paul's thorn was. One of the main theories out there is that it was poor eyesight. However, I think it was perhaps an issue of a tendency toward a particular sin (perhaps an attitude toward gentiles, a weakness for alcohol, or an issue of a sexually immoral nature - not that he was immoral, not that he practiced sin, but that he had the temptation that tormented him - and maybe he even succumbed to it on occasions). God uses the weak, the unwise, the social misfits - for in Jesus we become strong, wise, and fit for the Kingdom of God.
Dear Bro Jbert ,
it say exactly what is bothing him Paul was being harrassed by messenger of satan , a false witness , always downing him in whatever God revealed to him , he was mocked for it even attacked often
Paul wanted the Lord to remove this one tormentor from him ,[I always wondered if it wasnt Alexander the coppersmith ? Paul states the Lord reward him for is works [of satan , lying wonders ?] but Gods says his grace was sufficent for Paul and it helped Paul not to get to puffed up and prideful over all the THINGS GOD gave him to share , it being in his flesh/weakness was to provoke him to wrath , we know that is NOT what the Spirit is saying how to share the good news
2Ti 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Alexander = "man defender"
1) a worker in copper or iron, a smith
the name and title says it all ..lol hidden meanings '' a man defender'' a smith that blows the coals and copper is a form of judgemet or opinions , trying to put Paul to silence and give up
this is just what I believe and hoped it will help out , not to make you believe me , but just how I saw this messenger of satan to buffet Paul being the torn in his flesh [ a weakness ] that Gods grace would cover him though it all
I echo the sentiment that while we are still in our fleshly bodies we are still open to the corruptions of the flesh. To my understanding our earthly bodies are a learning experience, Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil. To be a true son or daughter of God we must have knowledge of both good and evil that's why it rains on both the righteous and the unrighteous. If we are walking with Christ and we stumble it's a powerful learning experience. Christ is working all things in accordance to His Will and everything that happens in this age has it's place and it's what we learn from it that matters. Our carnal bodies are but a preparation for our spiritual bodies that we will receive one day. The Old Covenant was carnal law that dealt in the realm of the flesh but it was but a preparation for the spiritual Law that would come with Christ in our New Covenant.
Quote from: rosered on June 20, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
QuoteI can so relate to this.
Paul was obviously frustrated in both these instances. I have heard many people speculate on what Paul's thorn was. One of the main theories out there is that it was poor eyesight. However, I think it was perhaps an issue of a tendency toward a particular sin (perhaps an attitude toward gentiles, a weakness for alcohol, or an issue of a sexually immoral nature - not that he was immoral, not that he practiced sin, but that he had the temptation that tormented him - and maybe he even succumbed to it on occasions). God uses the weak, the unwise, the social misfits - for in Jesus we become strong, wise, and fit for the Kingdom of God.
Dear Bro Jbert ,
it say exactly what is bothing him Paul was being harrassed by messenger of satan , a false witness , always downing him in whatever God revealed to him , he was mocked for it even attacked often
Paul wanted the Lord to remove this one tormentor from him ,[I always wondered if it wasnt Alexander the coppersmith ? Paul states the Lord reward him for is works [of satan , lying wonders ?] but Gods says his grace was sufficent for Paul and it helped Paul not to get to puffed up and prideful over all the THINGS GOD gave him to share , it being in his flesh/weakness was to provoke him to wrath , we know that is NOT what the Spirit is saying how to share the good news
2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Alexander = "man defender"
1) a worker in copper or iron, a smith
the name and title says it all ..lol hidden meanings " a man defender" a smith that blows the coals and copper is a form of judgemet or opinions , trying to put Paul to silence and give up
this is just what I believe and hoped it will help out , not to make you believe me , but just how I saw this messenger of satan to buffet Paul being the torn in his flesh [ a weakness ] that Gods grace would cover him though it all
A very interesting viewpoint. Thanks. :thumbsup:
Quote from: Wayfaring Stranger on June 20, 2013, 01:22:54 AM
I echo the sentiment that while we are still in our fleshly bodies we are still open to the corruptions of the flesh. To my understanding our earthly bodies are a learning experience, Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil. To be a true son or daughter of God we must have knowledge of both good and evil that's why it rains on both the righteous and the unrighteous. If we are walking with Christ and we stumble it's a powerful learning experience. Christ is working all things in accordance to His Will and everything that happens in this age has it's place and it's what we learn from it that matters. Our carnal bodies are but a preparation for our spiritual bodies that we will receive one day. The Old Covenant was carnal law that dealt in the realm of the flesh but it was but a preparation for the spiritual Law that would come with Christ in our New Covenant.
Awesome! :thumbsup: