By the way..

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Is there any verse in the Bible that says that Christians are to only use the Bible as their source of spiritual growth?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't know if you are a man or a woman, but I do know......you are a brave soul...... :winkgrin:

None come to mind at the moment, but part of the "problem" is, the Word speaks to the 30, the 60, and the 100 fold realm, all at the same time. So where you are in your walk, determines what you hear, and even where you hear it from. I have received life from my kid's 5th grade level science encyclopedias, seeing the glory of God in His creation. So much so, I read all 16 of them, crying and praising God all thru it. Blessings to you.....

[CHB]

I think we can get spiritual growth from all sources. I have learned a lot from all of the different denominations I have been associated with. I have learned from these forums and all of the articles and books I have read. I have to give credit to everything and everybody I have come in contact with for my spiritual growth.

The only scriptures I can think of is, (2Tim. 2:15)"Study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".  (1Cor. 10:11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition.

But most of all, it is through God from which I have gotten my spiritual growth, because without him we are nothing and can do nothing. All the other things are just tools which God used to give me all of my spiritual growth. When all is said and done, it is God that gives us all of our spiritual growth.

CHB

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, CHB.....

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Cardinal:
(Man.) The thought just came to me that when I first felt God's anointing in my life in 1990, the Word was what I looked to most. However, some special believers dear to my heart never discouraged looking for truth daily, wherever the Lord might have shown it. (The Word would nonetheless confirm it whether it was pure or not.) My real concern is how much we as believers are 'in tune' to truth. It's easy to say we're "in the truth" when we hold to the Bible (even when we can't understand most of it anyway) while excluding everything else. But I think truth is everywhere, and it's us who need to be trained to discern it. The Jews were against Jesus partly because they didn't know how to judge righteously.

CHB: I'm like you; I've learned a lot from lots of different sources, and I've had words of truth spoken to me by people whom many wouldn't categorize as Christians. One plants, another waters, but it really is God who gives the increase (or not!) and it is HE who gives us the will to do of His good pleasure. Glory be to God alone!

Brian

[Craig]

Scripture is a witness, a tool, a roadmap to the Truth. It is not the truth itself.

Here is what Scripture is good for:

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, WhyIloveItaly.....He has been working tirelessly I would say in training me to see things spiritually, almost from the beginning. I don't deliberately look for it, that's just the way it is now, that nature is ingrafted and I can't NOT see it that way, unless He chooses to keep it veiled from me for a time and a season. It's all God, and it's all good, Amen? He is awesome. Blessings to you.....

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Cardinal:
Amen! In other words, once God has changed you, you're just different. Maybe many people are afraid of looking for truth outside of the Bible because they don't feel they have really been changed inside. (Or maybe they haven't been changed inside..)  :mshock: 
But once we're changed, we're changed. And I praise God today that He changed me! Now there's no fear in looking around me, because He has His hand on me (as I believe He does on all of us), and I know who I am.

Craig: Nice verse. Perhaps many churches replace "all" with "only."   I've met Christians who, although they might not admit it, can't see past their Bible. I too am at times guilty of it. (I.e. reading about being a servant, while not hearing those around me asking for my help! - Or worse, hearing but not wanting to help!)

Brian

[Craig]

Craig: Nice verse. Perhaps many churches replace "all" with "only."   I've met Christians who, although they might not admit it, can't see past their Bible. I too am at times guilty of it. (I.e. reading about being a servant, while not hearing those around me asking for my help! - Or worse, hearing but not wanting to help!)
Brian

Many people blame me for being Soley Scripture based because I use Scripture quite a bit. The only reason for this is, subjective experience from the Spirit, cannot be tested unless we have an agreed upon roadmap to test it. The first test is the fruit it bears, we can see what came of people who had visions and dreams, did it lead to Jesus or take away from Him? The second test is does it have witness, now this is an unbias, universally known, witness and you can only find this in Scripture. Your best friend is not a credible witness, no matter how sincere he may be, because he may be bias or impartial in his judgment. You, yourself are not a credible witness, no matter how sincere you may be, because you may be bias or impartial in your own judgement.

That is why Peter says,

2 Peter 1:19-21 (Young's Literal Translation)
And we have more firm the prophetic word, to which we do well giving heed, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, till day may dawn, and a morning star may arise -- in your hearts; this first knowing, that no prophecy of the Writing doth come of private exposition, for not by will of man did ever prophecy come, but by the Holy Spirit borne on holy men of God spake.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

There is subjective perceptions of the truth, but in many of those cases the conclusion of the subjective perceptions may not be the truth at all. But, if you have an objective truth, the subjective perceptions will confirm it. Prophesy, Scripture, etc. are all view through subjective perceptions and therefore by themselves can never be the truth alone because we may conclude wrongly.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Craig:
Very true that we are subjective. (Flesh.)
However, God has often spoken a word to me through 'non-Christians.' We all live and have our being in Him...some just aren't "aware" of it yet! 
Besides, I can't just discount what comes from other people just because they don't believe the same things I do! Sometimes I don't even know what I believe!
Brian

[CHB]

Amen Brian, same here. I may change my mind tomorrow after reading something today.  :happy3:

CHB

[Craig]

Craig:
Very true that we are subjective. (Flesh.)
However, God has often spoken a word to me through 'non-Christians.' We all live and have our being in Him...some just aren't "aware" of it yet! 
Besides, I can't just discount what comes from other people just because they don't believe the same things I do! Sometimes I don't even know what I believe!
Brian

Indeed, so are you saying "however" to me? I do not know what you are objecting to, perhaps I misread.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Craig:
I don't know if it's for you or not, but what I meant is that I have known Christians who don't acknowledge anything coming from the mouths of those who aren't "believers."
To them, the only truth to be found is in the Bible, and in particular, in their church group. They call it "being uncompromising."

Blessings to you!
Brian

[SeekerSA]

Craig:
I don't know if it's for you or not, but what I meant is that I have known Christians who don't acknowledge anything coming from the mouths of those who aren't "believers."
To them, the only truth to be found is in the Bible, and in particular, in their church group. They call it "being uncompromising."

Blessings to you!
Brian

Hi Brian

You may enjoy reading this article I posted, not mine. http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=1792.0

[whyiloveitaly.com]

SeekerSA:
Interesting....! A lot of 'meat on the grill..' I totally agree however, with how the Word of God has become something you can buy in a bookstore.

There's a saying here in Italy that the people you have to be most careful of are those who go to church. Unfortunately, we can ALL become "blinded by the light."

You hit it on the head about the Jews not coming to Jesus for life. Today, the situation might just be a bit worse because we have made such a business out of the Bible.   -We even start to believe that since we're not saved by works, then we don't need to do any!  So when we're confronted with the beggar on the street, the "right solution" becomes, "give 'em a pocket version of the Gospel of John!"   We should be "LIVING" the Word, not just studying it!

Once I asked people on this forum what kind of works they were doing. Very few responded. And many responses were, "I don't have time."

Well, if that's Christianity, then what difference is there between Christians and non-Christians?????

Brian

[SeekerSA]

Well, if that's Christianity, then what difference is there between Christians and non-Christians?????

Sadly very little. Awhile back I posted an article The Living Bible. It ends off with, "You may be the only Bible some people will ever read!!"

Blessings

[Craig]

Craig:
I don't know if it's for you or not, but what I meant is that I have known Christians who don't acknowledge anything coming from the mouths of those who aren't "believers."
To them, the only truth to be found is in the Bible, and in particular, in their church group. They call it "being uncompromising."

Blessings to you!
Brian

Then it is not. There is only One truth, and the Bible does tell us of it but it is not always seen or found by those who search for it. Even Jesus rebuked the Pharisee, saying they search the Scriptures to find Eternal Life but it was standing before them and they could not see it.

If you find truth in an unbeliever, that truth still needs to be temperred by two or more credible witnesses. Scripture is only one roadmap to the truth, but not the truth itself. Though you will not find me favoring rejection of Scripture in favor for a unbelieving witness, it won't happen. It does not make sense on any level, other than pride of one's thoughts and actions, to reject Scripture because it is viewed as condemning and judging.

You will not find me rejecting Scripture in any way, if that is what you are proposing, then I believe without hesitation, you are wrong. If this is not what you are proposing, then I agree that Scripture is not the only roadmap to understanding the truth of God. Only those who have the Spirit of God understand the Spirit.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Craig:
What I would say is that the Bible can blind you, me or anyone. Understanding it comes through revelation, not by study. God won't give you an award because you studied the Bible. Scholarly understanding brings death. Paul wrote that the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Bible in and of itself does not bring life. It's the Spirit that brings life, and you can have the Spirit teach you the Bible, but you can't have the Bible give you the Spirit. There are lots of religious folk who know the Bible better than you, and still don't know God as their saviour. Studying the Bible is what has led to denominations, wars and divisions.
I believe that the Bible is not sufficient. By itself, it is only another form of the law.


Blessings to you,
Brian

[Craig]

Craig:
What I would say is that the Bible can blind you, me or anyone. Understanding it comes through revelation, not by study. God won't give you an award because you studied the Bible. Scholarly understanding brings death. Paul wrote that the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
The Bible in and of itself does not bring life. It's the Spirit that brings life, and you can have the Spirit teach you the Bible, but you can't have the Bible give you the Spirit. There are lots of religious folk who know the Bible better than you, and still don't know God as their saviour. Studying the Bible is what has led to denominations, wars and divisions.
I believe that the Bible is not sufficient. By itself, it is only another form of the law.

Blessings to you,
Brian

The bible is not the truth, so how can I be blinded by it? From what I see here, is you mistake a roadmap to the truth, and the truth as being one and the same. Since there is not distinguishing this, and we know the Bible is not the Truth, you reject the Bible as a roadmap to the truth. If you ever though the Bible was the Truth, then you will be blinded by the letter. The Bible is not sufficient to any truth, but any truth you think or feel you recieved will not be contridicted by the Bible, please take some time and RE-READ what I presented earlier because there is a misunderstanding.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Craig:
I agree.
The important thing is to love one another.  :boyheart:


CHB:
Isn't it amazing how we 'think' we know, and then later discover that we didn't really know that well? Maybe it's part of growing up!

Blessings.
Brian

[hopeful]

The important thing is to love one another.  :boyheart:

:thumbsup:  Beloved, let us love one another....

[CHB]

CHB:
Isn't it amazing how we 'think' we know, and then later discover that we didn't really know that well? Maybe it's part of growing up!

Blessings.
Brian

Ain't it the truth. The more I read and the more I understand, the more I realize, I don't know much.  :bigGrin:  I don't think we will ever come to know it all in this life.  :sigh:

CHB

[whyiloveitaly.com]

CHB:
And when we remember that knowledge puffeth up.....!!
Maybe in the end, 'tis true that love is the greatest--even more important than knowledge!

Brian

[Craig]

Anti-Knowledge rhetoric will recieve sharp rebukes from me and I will present the case which demonstrates that if anyone forsakes knowledge, they are wrong to do so. It always seems to be the simple solution, to read "Knowledge puffs up, Love edifies." thinking they are opposites and if we persue love, we should forsake knowledge. Once again, a fallacy created in the minds of those who do not know or understand what they are reading. It is quite simple, knowledge without love, is useless that is why knowledge should not be without love, because Love counterbalances the pride of knowledge, not opposes it. Next, we find in Scripture, that those who forsake knowledge are ignorant, and ready for destruction. Therefore making love and knowledge opposites is the greatest fallacy in CU/UR today, God's people perish because of lack of knowledge and God's people are useless without love. They are sychronostic and in equal measure.

Do you know how mankind became like God?

This is going to shock some people, but it was not by eating of the Tree of Life; but in fact, because they had obtained knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

Knowledge is what leads to life.

[hopeful]

Anti-Knowledge rhetoric will recieve sharp rebukes from me and I will present the case which demonstrates that if anyone forsakes knowledge, they are wrong to do so.

:mshock:  Love you, too, bro!   :thumbsup: