as a computer programmer...

[trettep]

I do computer programming as a hobby and I have used in the past for my job duties.  What this experience has givin me is a perspective about God that I wanted to share with others in the hopes that maybe someone else may relate.

In computer programming, a programmer writes procedures and logic flow to perform a task or many tasks on a computer.  This may involve user input or may not.  I imagine God as the Supreme programmer but the programming is this creation that we live in.  Now as a programmer, if someone were to ask me what will happen if such and such happens then I would already have an answer to that because I'm the one the created the response to the event in the program even though the event may not have YET taken place.  This means I can PREDICT and  FORECAST what will happen with the program and the expected result. 

Now let's imagine for a moment I'm the creator and I create MAN.  I have already put in MAN's creation how to respond to events based on events encountered.  So for every event the MAN is exposed to, the MAN would respond specifically and accordinly as programmed.  This is all in how I see God's work and how that we maybe held accountable for our actions that we are not ultimately responsible for them but He is.   

Anyone else a programmer here and think like this?

Paul

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Not a programmer, but I can sure see your analogy.......Blessings.....

[jabcat]

I can see that POV.  My bottom line is, when God wills something, it WILL be done...in fact, same as.  He doesn't just sit around wishing.  And He is the Creator, and IS in control!  :thumbsup:

[trettep]

I can see that POV.  My bottom line is, when God wills something, it WILL be done...in fact, same as.  He doesn't just sit around wishing.  And He is the Creator, and IS in control!  :thumbsup:

Yes that is how I see it.  I read a document by Augustine of Hippo on Free Will and Grace that is AWESOME in explaining how Free Will works and our volition in regard to God's Will.  Very good read and I recommend others read it, it actually confirms what I see in the scriptures and thought it expressed it better than I do.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1510.htm

A better word for Free Will in the context of that document is our volition.  It isn't the concept of Free Will as meaning we are left to our own will to decide our fate.

Notice chapter29 heading of that article:

"Chapter 29.— God is Able to Convert Opposing Wills, and to Take Away from the Heart Its Hardness."

A very universalism heading.

Paul

[WhiteWings]

I can see the connection.
But sometimes I think we are a microsoft alpha build  :laughing7:

(http://www.danasoft.com/citysign.jpg)

[Paul Hazelwood]

I do computer programming as a hobby and I have used in the past for my job duties.  What this experience has givin me is a perspective about God that I wanted to share with others in the hopes that maybe someone else may relate.

In computer programming, a programmer writes procedures and logic flow to perform a task or many tasks on a computer.  This may involve user input or may not.  I imagine God as the Supreme programmer but the programming is this creation that we live in.  Now as a programmer, if someone were to ask me what will happen if such and such happens then I would already have an answer to that because I'm the one the created the response to the event in the program even though the event may not have YET taken place.  This means I can PREDICT and  FORECAST what will happen with the program and the expected result. 

Now let's imagine for a moment I'm the creator and I create MAN.  I have already put in MAN's creation how to respond to events based on events encountered.  So for every event the MAN is exposed to, the MAN would respond specifically and accordinly as programmed.  This is all in how I see God's work and how that we maybe held accountable for our actions that we are not ultimately responsible for them but He is.   

Anyone else a programmer here and think like this?

Paul

Proverbss 5:20 pretty much sums it up.   A careful look at the hebrew word that gets translated to ponders will say  "prepares the way"


I am a hobbiest programmer and while not even close to a professional, I understand the desire for programmers to make their programs appear intuitive.

That really is where I see a difference between a computer and a human, a computer cannot offer me a voluntary offering no matter how good I write the program.

[WhiteWings]

I am a hobbiest programmer and while not even close to a professional, I understand the desire for programmers to make their programs appear intuitive.

Made your program more intuitive?
Aka is there a new version?

[trettep]

I can see the connection.
But sometimes I think we are a microsoft alpha build  :laughing7:

(http://www.danasoft.com/citysign.jpg)

:laughing7:

[trettep]

I do computer programming as a hobby and I have used in the past for my job duties.  What this experience has givin me is a perspective about God that I wanted to share with others in the hopes that maybe someone else may relate.

In computer programming, a programmer writes procedures and logic flow to perform a task or many tasks on a computer.  This may involve user input or may not.  I imagine God as the Supreme programmer but the programming is this creation that we live in.  Now as a programmer, if someone were to ask me what will happen if such and such happens then I would already have an answer to that because I'm the one the created the response to the event in the program even though the event may not have YET taken place.  This means I can PREDICT and  FORECAST what will happen with the program and the expected result. 

Now let's imagine for a moment I'm the creator and I create MAN.  I have already put in MAN's creation how to respond to events based on events encountered.  So for every event the MAN is exposed to, the MAN would respond specifically and accordinly as programmed.  This is all in how I see God's work and how that we maybe held accountable for our actions that we are not ultimately responsible for them but He is.   

Anyone else a programmer here and think like this?

Paul

Proverbss 5:20 pretty much sums it up.   A careful look at the hebrew word that gets translated to ponders will say  "prepares the way"


I am a hobbiest programmer and while not even close to a professional, I understand the desire for programmers to make their programs appear intuitive.

That really is where I see a difference between a computer and a human, a computer cannot offer me a voluntary offering no matter how good I write the program.

Sure it can.  In programming we use Random Generation all the time.  I can easily create a program that will randomonly generate its own input.

Paul

[Molly]

They haven't yet built a computer that can pass the Turing test, therefore, computers still can't think like a human. 

A machine is not a human.

[trettep]

They haven't yet built a computer that can pass the Turing test, therefore, computers still can't think like a human. 

A machine is not a human.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

:happygrin:

Paul

[Paul Hazelwood]

I do computer programming as a hobby and I have used in the past for my job duties.  What this experience has givin me is a perspective about God that I wanted to share with others in the hopes that maybe someone else may relate.

In computer programming, a programmer writes procedures and logic flow to perform a task or many tasks on a computer.  This may involve user input or may not.  I imagine God as the Supreme programmer but the programming is this creation that we live in.  Now as a programmer, if someone were to ask me what will happen if such and such happens then I would already have an answer to that because I'm the one the created the response to the event in the program even though the event may not have YET taken place.  This means I can PREDICT and  FORECAST what will happen with the program and the expected result. 

Now let's imagine for a moment I'm the creator and I create MAN.  I have already put in MAN's creation how to respond to events based on events encountered.  So for every event the MAN is exposed to, the MAN would respond specifically and accordinly as programmed.  This is all in how I see God's work and how that we maybe held accountable for our actions that we are not ultimately responsible for them but He is.   

Anyone else a programmer here and think like this?

Paul

Proverbss 5:20 pretty much sums it up.   A careful look at the hebrew word that gets translated to ponders will say  "prepares the way"


I am a hobbiest programmer and while not even close to a professional, I understand the desire for programmers to make their programs appear intuitive.

That really is where I see a difference between a computer and a human, a computer cannot offer me a voluntary offering no matter how good I write the program.

Sure it can.  In programming we use Random Generation all the time.  I can easily create a program that will randomonly generate its own input.

Paul

It's not actually random, it a mathmatical illusion.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

[trettep]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

[Paul Hazelwood]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

Ok, so how does this idea of a computer program then give a picture of Gods creation?

[sheila]

 you can liken satan and his offspring to a programmed evil.

  they can not and do not love HIM....however,

  He still uses this evil program to teach His children what evil

  is.Since He isn't evil and His children actually have HIS NATURE

   [love] He made 'such a program" to  teach us about it


  it gets real upclose and personal at times


    the exceedingly sinfulness of sin had to be realized by us

  through a commandment that was unto life...

  that is why I say satan and demons wont be saved..

  because they are but an evil programmed learning tool

  that He has designed,implemented to teach us during

  this phase of our existence.


  God tells you not to do something to protect your life...

  presto! magico! her comes the program to kill you.

   May seem far out, but He couldn't reveal it til our time

  as our generation can understand this through computers

  and software etc..

                            Sheila
  Paul spoke about it...in my flesh dwells nothing good

[trettep]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

Ok, so how does this idea of a computer program then give a picture of Gods creation?

Just God's understanding of it.  I know everything my program should do and how it acts in relation to events that take place.  I think similiarly that God knows how things are going to happen and how they unfold in relation to that some idea.

Paul

[Beloved Servant]

Indeed.

Romans 8 Amplified:
20 For the creation (nature) was subjected to frailty (to futility, condemned to frustration), not because of some intentional fault on its part, but by the will of Him Who so subjected it — [yet] with the hope
21 That nature (creation) itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and corruption [and gain an entrance] into the glorious freedom of God's children.

[Paul Hazelwood]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

Ok, so how does this idea of a computer program then give a picture of Gods creation?

Just God's understanding of it.  I know everything my program should do and how it acts in relation to events that take place.  I think similiarly that God knows how things are going to happen and how they unfold in relation to that some idea.

Paul

Ok, understand that, but since loving God,  the programmer,  is all a part of the picture, then that is an added factor that is not explained through the example and why I pointed out what I did.

[Seth]

I do computer programming as a hobby and I have used in the past for my job duties.  What this experience has givin me is a perspective about God that I wanted to share with others in the hopes that maybe someone else may relate.

In computer programming, a programmer writes procedures and logic flow to perform a task or many tasks on a computer.  This may involve user input or may not.  I imagine God as the Supreme programmer but the programming is this creation that we live in.  Now as a programmer, if someone were to ask me what will happen if such and such happens then I would already have an answer to that because I'm the one the created the response to the event in the program even though the event may not have YET taken place.  This means I can PREDICT and  FORECAST what will happen with the program and the expected result. 

Now let's imagine for a moment I'm the creator and I create MAN.  I have already put in MAN's creation how to respond to events based on events encountered.  So for every event the MAN is exposed to, the MAN would respond specifically and accordinly as programmed.  This is all in how I see God's work and how that we maybe held accountable for our actions that we are not ultimately responsible for them but He is.   

Anyone else a programmer here and think like this?

Paul

I do a BIT of Actionscript, but I get the analogy. I think it is a really good one.

[Seth]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

Ok, so how does this idea of a computer program then give a picture of Gods creation?

Just God's understanding of it.  I know everything my program should do and how it acts in relation to events that take place.  I think similiarly that God knows how things are going to happen and how they unfold in relation to that some idea.

Paul

Ok, understand that, but since loving God,  the programmer,  is all a part of the picture, then that is an added factor that is not explained through the example and why I pointed out what I did.

I think it factors in this way: We love God because he first loved us. He wrote the script of his own love into the program which, when triggered, renders the flesh loop obsolete and turns the flesh-programmed person into a person programmed to a loving slave to Christ, like Paul. Paul encountered the love script on his way to damascus, and it rendered his murderer script obsolete, which is why Paul understood that he was predestined to be in Christ.

BTW, I am not a scripter so I realize it is a forced metaphor. :-)

[Paul Hazelwood]

Let's take the computer progam a bit further and place it in the realm of love.

If you write your computer program to randomly generate the phrase "I love you" are you Paul as a computer programmer, the one who created the program, this wonder of software that you wrote in your great expertise,  in any way convinced the computer loves you?

No, and have no idea why you ask.  For example, if I write a computer program to say that "I'm a pink Elephant", I wouldn't believe it either.

Paul

Ok, so how does this idea of a computer program then give a picture of Gods creation?

Just God's understanding of it.  I know everything my program should do and how it acts in relation to events that take place.  I think similiarly that God knows how things are going to happen and how they unfold in relation to that some idea.

Paul

Ok, understand that, but since loving God,  the programmer,  is all a part of the picture, then that is an added factor that is not explained through the example and why I pointed out what I did.

I think it factors in this way: We love God because he first loved us. He wrote the script of his own love into the program which, when triggered, renders the flesh loop obsolete and turns the flesh-programmed person into a person programmed to a loving slave to Christ, like Paul. Paul encountered the love script on his way to damascus, and it rendered his murderer script obsolete, which is why Paul understood that he was predestined to be in Christ.

BTW, I am not a scripter so I realize it is a forced metaphor. :-)

Don't get me wrong, I get what can be done with computers, that's why I asked if a programmer wrote the greatest program ever and the programmed computer flashed a message on the screen  "I love you"  do you think it does actually love the programmer?

[jabcat]

Simply, I see the situation and your analogy trettep, as;

God has created all possibilities, knows and ULTIMATELY determines the ULTIMATE outcome, shapes our will by circumstances to eventually be more in line with His will, is not surprised by anything, because;

God has created all possibilities, knows and ULTIMATELY determines the ULTIMATE outcome, shapes our will by circumstances...........

The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.  (Proverbs 16:9)

[Seth]

Don't get me wrong, I get what can be done with computers, that's why I asked if a programmer wrote the greatest program ever and the programmed computer flashed a message on the screen  "I love you"  do you think it does actually love the programmer?

As the metaphor relates to a human who is capable of being both programmed and of loving, I'd say absolutely.

[trettep]

Simply, I see the situation and your analogy trettep, as;

God has created all possibilities, knows and ULTIMATELY determines the ULTIMATE outcome, shapes our will by circumstances to eventually be more in line with His will, is not surprised by anything, because;

God has created all possibilities, knows and ULTIMATELY determines the ULTIMATE outcome, shapes our will by circumstances...........

The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.  (Proverbs 16:9)

Exactly Jabcat! thanks for that.

Paul