Since I research alot on the internet, I come across all sorts of things. Recently I have discovered quite a few mediums and people (even lawyers) that back them up (saying what they experience is true etc.). One person in particular is medium David Thompson. People are having a hard time trying to prove him a fraud. Now I know the bible forbids all contact with the dead (thats why we must be cautious of NDE's aswell) but I am wondering something. If these "spirits" that get channeled aren't evil, are they really the demons playing tricks? I am a born skeptic, even tho (as you all know by now) certain things do still give me the creeps. Most interesting thing to me is that most NDE's and most "medium" spirit contact is 100% in agreement with universalism. So if those things are evil and a trick of "the devil", why isn't universalism?
Blessings
Dee
IMO, "yes". People that were saved during Paul's ministry burned their books on such things after experiencing salvation. There are other scriptural references as well.
Don't know if it's true in every such case as you mention, but Satan often mimics truth, making it look just close enough to be confusing. That's why deceit is dangerous. Sometimes it's hard to tell, and if we're not really careful we can be tricked by it. That's why, IMO, we need to stick with Spirit-revealed scripture as our standard...there are many shiny, attractive counterfeits.
God's blessing, James.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.
All the above are active in performing some 'magic'.
People that experience NDE are not. They are just dying....
Ok, you can argue if they don't lie etc but I think they aren't mentioned in teh above or any other similar verse.
The Pharao that got the dream of the fat and skinny cows doesn't belong in that group either. He didn't ask for the vision. He was passively at sleep.
Like I said above, is there any way that Universalism could be a trick of the devil too?
If he has rewritten the Bible; yes.
That would mean the word of God is lost. I doubt God will let that happen.
Besides of that UR is the worst way to drive people away from God....
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 22, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
If he has rewritten the Bible; yes.
That would mean the word of God is lost. I doubt God will let that happen.
Besides of that UR is the worst way to drive people away from God....
Good answer :thumbsup:
I am going add in my option.
Which is in agreements with UR and the supporters.
Again it is my option and believe, I only speak from personal experience.
I do not support any doctrine that is Christian in name that promotes "Post" Bible doctrine.
All that I have experienced pulls a person spiritually away from UR and is some form of
control by man's ideas.
I feel that Post Biblical doctrines are no less a deception, pretense,
than the subject of this thread.
There are to numerous to mention.
Kevin
QuoteI do not support any doctrine that is Christian in name that promotes "Post" Bible doctrine.
All that I have experienced pulls a person spiritually away from UR and is some form of
control by man's ideas.
I feel that Post Biblical doctrines are no less a deception, pretense,
than the subject of this thread.
There are to numerous to mention.
Kevin
Please explain more what you mean. So you feel that mediums aren't a threat? They are a pretense and a deception? Sorry hun, I am just very bleh in the head today and not understanding at all.
Blessings Dee
I can speak more personally about this because I was involved. I was not a true active medium, but for a time I really thought that spirits spoke through me, or rather that I could talk to them in my head.
I believe these are cases of schizophrenia not coming on its own. IE, they were probably triggered by the search for spiritual adventure.
As far as the devil goes, yes, he can come up with some crafty deceptions. That's why we must always resist him and stick together against him. It's not easy to battle him alone, but when you have the loving support of others, especially when they are wise enough not to blame you for what is going on, then victory is almost guaranteed.
It is my view that the devil wants to spread confusion and lies on Earth, and for that reason he tries to corrupt people. He is particularly dangerous to isolated people like I have been for a time in my life. And he's pretty persistent, and in a way never quite gives up. It's frustrating and challenging.
But the solution is rather simple: resist him completely. You don't have to engage in priving his lies wrong. You don't have to see through all of his weird stuff. It's enough to resist and then to fall back on godly teaching.
And no, UR is not a lie of the devil. I am not completely persuaded yet that it is indeed truth even though sometimes I treat it that way for comfort. But to my knowledge it's a honorable doctrine that the ancient church did not condemn, so even if it weren't true there are no penalties for believing it. I say so because the alternative to UR is to believe that God punishes those who don't want to love. I mean, He is against those who don't want God and the world (us humans) being reconciled. But really, since Christ it is hard to speak about God hating or being angry about this or that, because His usual response to all things is grace, I think.
Oh, and about mediums again, it is best to get rid of these things. Many real mediums today are in it for power and for adventure, but once that stops and the spirits remain anyway, then they are in for a lot of misery unless God has mercy. It's bad stuff that nobody should get involved in. We have the bible, we have godly literature, we have the comforts of wisdom and reason. Let's remain there and forget about spirits. They only bring disorder and confusion and the stuff incites God's anger (I don't mean great wrath or anything, just that our beloved Abba can't stand such stuff, and we don't want to give our God trouble, do we?).
Dee,
Thanks,
Reply #8 does a good job filling in, I was in a hurry...
almost had to get something done.
01. mediums are a threat, no different than sorcery, pretense:
pretense (pretending to be), pretense covers a wider area a little deeper than deception. Deception can be intentional, or un intentional. Pretense is intentional.
You can look this up in google if you would like. Or we can communicate outside the threads.
I don't get into the debating area, it is just not one of my gifts.
There definitely is a place and people gifted in this area.
Respectfully
Kevin.
Quote from: DeeDee on November 22, 2008, 06:01:56 PM
QuoteI do not support any doctrine that is Christian in name that promotes "Post" Bible doctrine.
All that I have experienced pulls a person spiritually away from UR and is some form of
control by man's ideas.
I feel that Post Biblical doctrines are no less a deception, pretense,
than the subject of this thread.
There are to numerous to mention.
Kevin
Please explain more what you mean. 01. So you feel that mediums aren't a threat? They are a pretense and a deception? Sorry hun, I am just very bleh in the head today and not understanding at all.
Blessings Dee
Quote from: Kevin on November 22, 2008, 10:28:13 PM
Dee,
Thanks,
Reply #8 does a good job filling in, I was in a hurry... almost had to get something done.
01. mediums are a threat, no different than sorcery, pretense:
pretense (pretending to be), pretense covers a wider area a little deeper than deception. Deception can be intentional, or un intentional. Pretense is intentional.
You can look this up in google if you would like. Or we can communicate outside the threads.
I don't get into the debating area, it is just not one of my gifts.
There definitely is a place and people gifted in this area.
Respectfully
Kevin.
Quote from: DeeDee on November 22, 2008, 06:01:56 PM
QuoteI do not support any doctrine that is Christian in name that promotes "Post" Bible doctrine.
All that I have experienced pulls a person spiritually away from UR and is some form of
control by man's ideas.
I feel that Post Biblical doctrines are no less a deception, pretense,
than the subject of this thread.
There are to numerous to mention.
Kevin
Please explain more what you mean. 01. So you feel that mediums aren't a threat? They are a pretense and a deception? Sorry hun, I am just very bleh in the head today and not understanding at all.
Blessings Dee
thanks Kevin, thats clears it up.
Lol, don't worry guys, I am not about to go and run out to consult a medium. I in general try and stay away from things I don't understand. Had a few fortune tellers approach me already and just said noooooooo thanks. I just find it fascinating that the conclusions these "mediums" and nde researchers come 2 are almost always 100% in agreement with what universalism teaches. True, the bible teaches you are not allowed to make contact with the deceased - and these people (mediums) are clearly defying this command, but if alot of these communications are not a demon trick then :thumbsup: you have alot more universalistic views in the world. With that said, whatever else these people are bringing, channeling through with the "good messages" is :thumbdown: :thumbdown:. God made His rules and laws for a reason. Clearly by Him making the rule / law that we are not allowed to contact the deceased, shows that it is possible. I think he made this rule because he knew that the risk of contacting and calling up evil and evil spirits is a great one. It is forbidden, it is wrong, but who is to say that each contact made is with an evil spirit. I say again, I am not going to go and delve into this and consult mediums and such, but I must admit that the peaceful way some of the testimonies comes across is very reassuring and makes me feel even more at peace with The Lord - if that makes any sense at all.
Blessings
DeeDee
Another quick thought on all of this. If it is demons that are tricking people during a mediums "channeling", why would they trick us into thinking that eternal hell does not exist? Why would they do this unless they know it does exist and they are trying to trick people into thinking it does'nt. Just a thought.
Dee
DD,
Have you even seen one medium that wasn't a fraud?
Aren't they mostly used to contact the dead or find a lost one. (help with police investigation)
In Deut 18, where a variety of things are listed to not learn to do, God goes on to say it is because He jealously wants you for Himself. The Psalmist say, "There shall be no strange God in you." That, "You may all prophesy . . ." (1 Cor 14) is one of the things God says. Why witches and tea leaves when you are a Seer/prophet(ess) inhabited by the living God? In Isaiah (8:19) God says, ". . . should not a people inquire of its Elohim? What do they inquire of the dead about the living?" Not only does God reveal secrets, He has power to change things. Those intimate with Him will experience the miraculous.
Today God is a lot like marriage, very unromantic. No passions leaping the boundaries. Too plain. Like, people somehow know it's right to have God and for God to have you; but, they want something mysterious and forbidden. They want something that makes them seem important, special somehow. They want riches. Of course, God is all that and more. Much of it is sheer greed and deception. It's just that there's a warfare going on and the propagandists for the opposition have been using a lot of movies and TV fictions for many years. "The guy with the Bible is the serial killer. The Bible is outdated. It's so screwed up from centuries of men's revisions we don't even know what it really said when it was written." The source is reviled and the Church has not launched a good defense. They pay to have their ears tickled.
We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but, "with the world-mights of this darkness," and, the AV says our wrestling is, "against spiritual wickedness in high places." It is against wicked "'pneumatikon'" ie., "wicked 'spiritual gifts,'" literally "toward the 'spirituals' of the wickedness among the celestials" (Eph 6:12) , where "spiritual" is the same as "'spiritual' gifts" (1 Cor 12:1), "'spiritual' blessings" (Eph 1:3), and "built up a 'spiritual' house" (1 Per 2:5) The media artists have portrayed wicked spiritual gifts and demon possession (under another name) as natural and desirable in a culture cultivated in a Godless vacuum.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 23, 2008, 10:42:12 AM
DD,
Have you even seen one medium that wasn't a fraud?
Aren't they mostly used to contact the dead or find a lost one. (help with police investigation)
Actually those that help the police are psychics. Mediums are people that often let the dead communicate thru them. There are a few mediums that they can't prove as frauds I'm afraid. One of them is David Thompson. He is backed up by a well known lawyer called Victor Zammit. Even when they try and debunk him they can't. There have been other mediums through the years that have made predictions that have come to pass. The list goes on and on. So there are definately people that can communicate with the dead in these ways. Thats not the issue. The issue is that is is forbidden.
What they are consulting is familiar spirits, demons who know things about the dead and who impersonate them. A daemon is a knowing one.
Backed up by a lawyer means nothing for me. Lawyers are payed to lie and find legal escape routes.
Can you point me to a site that about David Thompson. A little to-the-point site if possible.
Quote from: reFORMer on November 23, 2008, 11:12:51 AM
What they are consulting is familiar spirits, demons who know things about the dead and who impersonate them. A daemon is a knowing one.
Okay, I have heard this before. I am not saying I don't believe that but why would a demon make all things seem good and hunky dory? One reason, a demon would do that if ET was real to try and trick people into thinking that all are saved. Thats why if the theory that the "spirits" that talk thru the "mediums' are really "demons" is true, ET stands a good chance of being true.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 23, 2008, 11:16:21 AM
Backed up by a lawyer means nothing for me. Lawyers are payed to lie and find legal escape routes.
Can you point me to a site that about David Thompson. A little to-the-point site if possible.
Here Tony;
The first is a link off of that Jesus 30 ce website:
http://www.adcguides.com/
www.victorzammit.com
www.silvercordcircle.com
Note to mods: If these links are offensive please let me know and I will modify my post and remove them.
I'm looking at the first site now.
The Bible states teh dead know nothing.
But that site is full of testemonies including audio. Contradiction?
The site is about all kind of good things in the afterlife but most NDEs are about hell. Also weird.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 23, 2008, 11:38:52 AM
I'm looking at the first site now.
The Bible states teh dead know nothing.
But that site is full of testemonies including audio. Contradiction?
The site is about all kind of good things in the afterlife but most NDEs are about hell. Also weird.
Again I say, I don't believe in all the things you read on the internet. We will never know if NDE's are real (unless God somehow tells us). We will never know if mediums are real either. My point is just that if the theory that demons are what is always coming thru during a mediums session or whatever, then why would those demons make a person believe that no one goes to eternal hell, unless eternal hell is real and the demons are trying to trick us into thinking it is not. That theory would then not be inline with universalism at all.
Where do you see that most NDE's are of hell?
Hi DeeDee,
I can give you an example of how I encountered the devil.
It was in a difficult time for me, I was in the hospital and not a baptized christian yet. I did not trust the bible much in that time and felt inclined to believe in a new age christianity; I thought that reality is always different than people think and that nobody would know the truth for sure. I also thought God would be very different.
Anyway, one day I came into the dorm kitchen and looked and I saw someone standing at the oven. He was clothed in light and seemed very beautiful. I asked him who he was and he said, you can call me Jesus. Because he looked so beautiful I gave in and thought it was Jesus. Then it was like a rush went through me, it was like being sexually thrilled, and the person said, worship is like sex, and God gets a thrill through that.
I thought about this for a while and didn't notice what was going on.
Then suddenly I heard a stern voice that said: Shouldn't you worship the one who gave you your life? And I knew this was an angel and the person I had seen was the devil. I was also reminded to how Paul wrote that the devil masquerades as an angel of light.
I also saw Jesus then and He looked vastly different from the weird appearance of the devil. He looked glorious and loving, and full of goodness, and it was like I put my head in his lap and he embraced me with loving hands.
The devil tried a few times to deceive me after that but usually I saw quickly that it was a deception.
I think the problem with mediums is that they pervert the original message. Like in my experience with the devil, the thing is that people are seduced to give up the way of light of looking at things, that the sexual is not confined anymore to what goes on between husband and wife - blasphemies are created. And God IS angry about these things, only his anger only lasts for a moment and He will always help you come back to the truth.
Take note that the medium stuff isn't teaching biblical UR. It teaches an unbiblical universal salvation that leaves behind biblical principles like repentance, reverence for God, sincerity of love and, yes, temporal punishment. Oh, and I also believe that the devil will be destroyed - so there is a kind of eternal punishment, only it is for devils, not for humans who are ultimately reconciled through Christ's blood.
The trouble is that such a watered down or perverted version of universal salvation makes people afraid of the true message because it seems tougher and harder - but it's all about truth, and untruthfulness is something bad we must never accept. That is why we believe in UR because it accepts the truth that a man should not suffer forever in agony and that God is love and will not torment his creation forever.
Everyone who wants to do good definetly has to part with the devil's lies and keep UR clean from his perversions. It's necessary and will help us stay away from blasphemies.
QuoteTake note that the medium stuff isn't teaching biblical UR. It teaches an unbiblical universal salvation that leaves behind biblical principles like repentance, reverence for God, sincerity of love and, yes, temporal punishment.
Many places that I have read up on teach about God and Jesus. They also talk of love and forgiveness and temporal punishment.
I get what you are getting at tho and yes I do agree BUT what I am saying is why would the devil or demons (even if they do appear as good angels in disguise) come thru to mediums saying things like punishments are only temporary and all land up on a higher spiritual plane and the hell of fire and brimstone is not real? UNLESS they are trying to TRICK us into THINKING it is not real when in fact it is. In other words I am trying to say that I am not sure that it is ALWAYS demons that show themselves to mediums, if that is true then Eternal Torment is true. Because demons try and trick people so they would try and trick people into believing that HEll is not real if it was them coming thru. Don't really know how to explain my point any clearer then what I have. :sigh:
Hi DeeDee,
the thing is, like I said in my first post in this thread, I would say that most of what mediums talk about comes from their own misused brain.
I have schizophrenia, and when I don't take medicine or have too much stress, I hear a lot of voices talking. I can talk with them and they talk with me, I have hallucinations, I have what seems like visions. The thing is, many schizophrenics are very clever people, and their clever minds trick them. It can seem so very real, but it's only the mind telling stories and fantasies. After all, we can imagine everything if we put ourselves to it, artists do that all the time. And in the case of schizos like me, or mediums, the mind conjures up these things on its own, if poked and triggered for a while. It just SEEMS real, but it isn't.
One example, recently I thought about my atheist dad, and tried to imagine how he would be like if he were a christian. At first I could not imagine it, and was about to give up, then I suddenly forced myself to imagine it. Then I had a vision of my dad preaching in a church. I couldn't stand all this because it did not contain my dad like I knew him, but could not stop imagining for a while. Until I even heard my dad speak to me as if he were really there. The mind can really trick us there, and if we force it at some point the delusions can be so convincing that they seem real.
I believe most of what mediums say comes from within. It's just their broken minds. As for the devil's influence I would say, from experience, it's usually perverted. The devil is a sicko full of crap and doesn't know the truth. Demons are the same. When they influence someone like a medium, they basically harass the mediums themselves so that they add some sense in the message with their own capable minds, and the result is a mishmash of truth, fantasy, demon influence and confused reason, add some logic and it seems like nobody could have thought it up.
Quotethe thing is, like I said in my first post in this thread, I would say that most of what mediums talk about comes from their own misused brain.
:thumbsup: you see now that makes more sense. People too often for my liking try and call everything "demons" when lots of times that has absolutely nothing to do with it. Like when I was younger I had a very weird far off related "aunt" (more like a 3rd aunt if you get such a thing) anyhow she decided that I have demons and worship satan just because I sometimes used to wear black clothes. As in black skirt with a black polo neck. Can you imagine. Oh yes and I think I had a black handbag :wacko2: :wacko2:
Two reasons for a demon to allegedly mention the gospel during a reading of some type would be to draw attention to itself and to cause doubts on the part of people that know that those are demons as far as what the gospel is and it's origins. There was a demonized fortune teller in the book of Acts that followed around Paul and his ministry team for a few days screaming that these were servants of the Most High that have come to show you the way of salvation. St. Paul finally became annoyed enough to cast it out, but there in the book of Acts is an example of a spirit either mocking or drawing attention to itself, or trying to bring doubt on the origins of the Gospel for those that knew that those were demons. Also, often when Jesus would cast out demons, do you remember where the Bible says that He wouldn't allow them to speak because they knew He was Christ?
Quote from: martincisneros on November 23, 2008, 04:32:29 PM
Two reasons for a demon to allegedly mention the gospel during a reading of some type would be to draw attention to itself and to cause doubts on the part of people that know that those are demons as far as what the gospel is and it's origins. There was a demonized fortune teller in the book of Acts that followed around Paul and his ministry team for a few days screaming that these were servants of the Most High that have come to show you the way of salvation. St. Paul finally became annoyed enough to cast it out, but there in the book of Acts is an example of a spirit either mocking or drawing attention to itself, or trying to bring doubt on the origins of the Gospel for those that knew that those were demons. Also, often when Jesus would cast out demons, do you remember where the Bible says that He wouldn't allow them to speak because they knew He was Christ?
So you think its possible that demons would talk of things like everyone will go to Heaven eventually, through a medium, just to try and deceive? Pls give me the passage that the last thing you mentioned is in. See I am not sure if demons are capable of deceiving people with truth. In other words will demons ever talk the truth? :dontknow:
11 God was performing extraordinary miracles by Paul's hands, 12 so that even facecloths or work aprons that had touched his skin were brought to the sick, and the diseases left them, and the evil spirits came out of them.
13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists attempted to pronounce the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "I command you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches!" 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 The evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize—but who are you?" 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit leaped on them, overpowered them all, and prevailed against them, so that they ran out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known to everyone who lived in Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. Then fear fell on all of them, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had become believers came confessing and disclosing their practices, 19 while many of those who had practiced magic collected their books and burned them in front of everyone. So they calculated their value, and found it to be 50,000 pieces of silver. 20 In this way the Lord's message flourished and prevailed.
--Acts 19
Quote from: DeeDee on November 23, 2008, 05:00:12 PM
Quote from: martincisneros on November 23, 2008, 04:32:29 PM
Two reasons for a demon to allegedly mention the gospel during a reading of some type would be to draw attention to itself and to cause doubts on the part of people that know that those are demons as far as what the gospel is and it's origins. There was a demonized fortune teller in the book of Acts that followed around Paul and his ministry team for a few days screaming that these were servants of the Most High that have come to show you the way of salvation. St. Paul finally became annoyed enough to cast it out, but there in the book of Acts is an example of a spirit either mocking or drawing attention to itself, or trying to bring doubt on the origins of the Gospel for those that knew that those were demons. Also, often when Jesus would cast out demons, do you remember where the Bible says that He wouldn't allow them to speak because they knew He was Christ?
So you think its possible that demons would talk of things like everyone will go to Heaven eventually, through a medium, just to try and deceive? Pls give me the passage that the last thing you mentioned is in. See I am not sure if demons are capable of deceiving people with truth. In other words will demons ever talk the truth? :dontknow:
16 Once, as we were on our way to prayer, a slave girl met us who had a spirit of prediction and made a large profit for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 As she followed Paul and us she cried out, "These men are the slaves of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation." 18 And she did this for many days.
But Paul was greatly aggravated, and turning to the spirit, said, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out right away.
19 When her owners saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities. 20 And bringing them before the chief magistrates, they said, "These men are seriously disturbing our city. They are Jews, 21 and are promoting customs that are not legal for us as Romans to adopt or practice."
22 Then the mob joined in the attack against them, and the chief magistrates stripped off their clothes and ordered them to be beaten with rods. 23 After they had inflicted many blows on them, they threw them in jail, ordering the jailer to keep them securely guarded. 24 Receiving such an order, he put them into the inner prison and secured their feet in the stocks.
--Acts 16
Mark 1:34: And he healed many that were sick of divers diseases, and cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him.
Luke 4:41: And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.
If they can create a doubt in people's minds, even with the truth, then people will continue in their doubts rather than in the truth. And if they continue in their doubts rather than continuing in the truth, then they'll not be made free in this life. It says in 1Corinthians 14:33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...
A demon speaks oppression in what they speak. If they can bring their confusion and oppression into a person's life even by playing angel's advocate, then they consider themselves to have done their bad deed for the day. One of the ways of deceiving with truth is to give you 10% to 90% truth and then to slip in their poison along with it. Many people have been poisoned throughout history because they didn't taste the poison in something that tasted so good that their would be assassin had prepared for them.
As to your observation of the testimonies of communicating with the dead seeming to align with UR, that's not necessarily the case because even if one person were claiming that they themselves were in heaven, inspite of having lived a questionable life, that's not an automatic affirmation that absolutely all have and all will enter into heaven. A few years ago I was paying attention to John Edward's television program where he communicated with the dead. Many stories that some would take to be of light and love and of people being in heaven, but I've never heard a single one of those that ever indicated that all eventually go there, and there was never one time a mention of Christ Jesus and His ransoming work in the behalf of all of Creation. In fact, few of the stories ever even claimed much about being in heaven. They usually claimed that they were still with their loved ones.
The cases that aren't mental issues are honestly just, for the most part, demons that are trying to get a deeper hold on the person that they're messing with by claiming to be someone's relative, long lost love, etc. Those demons aren't there to disciple people in the Gospel, they're there to get the people to lower their guard even further so that they can bring in greater destruction than they'd otherwise be able to produce in their lives. But almost all of them know the Apostle's Creed and can quote Scripture if that's what it takes to be allowed in further to blind further and to lead away from God's protection and provision for this life. They'll sing "Joy to the World" with you, if it means a chance of getting further embedded as a parasite in a family so that they can lead generation after generation into further deception and destruction. They'll be very patient with a generation or two of Christians in a family, and tell them what they want to hear, if they can turn the grandkids into atheists, prostitutes, witches, additional psychic mediums to bring further disasters into the coming generations, etc.
The New Testament test for spirits is to make them confess the Lordship of Jesus, His being the Anointed and the Son of God, and His having come in the flesh, both in His birth and in His resurrection, according to Paul and John. If they can't be brought to do that, then they're not of God, and they're not likely aunt or uncle so and so that's in Paradise sitting across the table from Christ.
For an additional Scripture or two on demons using truth to try and deceive, do you remember when Jesus was tempted during His 40 day fast and the demon involved had the ability to quote Scripture, but not the ability to put it in it's true light and setting in line with the heart of the Father? Jesus argued him to a stand still [with quoting the Word] and that spirit didn't bother Him again for 3 months.
Thanks Martin, I understand all this much better now. :thumbsup:
They are just 'tickling' the ears of any who are willing to listen.
A pretense, I put "Battle Field" under the poetry section,
Kevin
Quote from: DeeDee on November 23, 2008, 10:38:03 AM
Another quick thought on all of this. If it is demons that are tricking people during a mediums "channeling", why would they trick us into thinking that eternal hell does not exist? Why would they do this unless they know it does exist and they are trying to trick people into thinking it does'nt. Just a thought.
Dee
Yes, you know I think Martin made it so clear to me and I have been able to think about it more clearly. The way I see it now is that demons can basically do anything they want to trick people into thinking they are "good" - then once they have the people fooled they slip in their little tricks. They try and make people not realise the importance of God and Jesus in their lives - they want people to go thru the period of cleansing that awaits us, only they try and deceive us to make our punishments longer. They probably are still trying to make God decide to give up on us completely. It probably angers them immensely that we will oneday all be saved and be out of their clutches.
Blessings
DeeDee
DeeDee,
I too have seen these shows regarding those who have solved crime, or bring up the dead. I also think of the witch of Endor who brought back Saul. I wonder if it is all 3 things; a trickster, a person conversing with evil spirits, and/or someone who has the ability to speak to the dead. Perhaps the word warns us not to consult mediums because it is really impossible to tell which of three may present itself to you.
I've had dreams from the Lord that involved telling the police. I had a dream in two parts that one part, involving my neighbor, proved to be true. I told her what I saw and she became very emotional and took me with her to the bank so she could withdraw some money for food because they were denying her access to her own money. I possibly wouldn't've gone to the police if it hadn't been that the part of the dream about the lady next door was true. It wasn't easy for me anyway, though the police were good about it. It proved also to be true.. There is a detective that is a Roman Catholic that gets help from the Lord to solve crimes and the statistics are proof something way beyond the ordinary is at work. I see no reason why people who love God shouldn't have help from God, miraculous if necessary, to defeat the powers of darkness.
Those who claim spirits of the dead or a "familiar" spirit helps them probably are working with the wrong side. That doesn't mean the Spirit of God in us wouldn't help us to know secrets that help good and hinder bad. Elijah, by the Spirit of God, knew what the leaders of the army coming against Israel plotted in their bedrooms.
Quote from: Brian on November 24, 2008, 03:21:17 AM
I once heard of a midget soothsayer who was on the run from the law.
The local newspaper read:
Small medium at large.
:laugh2:. You are bad :)
Quote from: reFORMer on November 24, 2008, 03:57:46 AM
I've had dreams from the Lord that involved telling the police. I had a dream in two parts that one part, involving my neighbor, proved to be true. I told her what I saw and she became very emotional and took me with her to the bank so she could withdraw some money for food because they were denying her access to her own money. I possibly wouldn't've gone to the police if it hadn't been that the part of the dream about the lady next door was true. It wasn't easy for me anyway, though the police were good about it. It proved also to be true.. There is a detective that is a Roman Catholic that gets help from the Lord to solve crimes and the statistics are proof something way beyond the ordinary is at work. I see no reason why people who love God shouldn't have help from God, miraculous if necessary, to defeat the powers of darkness.
Those who claim spirits of the dead or a "familiar" spirit helps them probably are working with the wrong side. That doesn't mean the Spirit of God in us wouldn't help us to know secrets that help good and hinder bad. Elijah, by the Spirit of God, knew what the leaders of the army coming against Israel plotted in their bedrooms.
You see that is just it, we are living in the hardest of times I think. Half the world is proclaiming Hell is real and eternal and the other half it proclaiming its not real, the church invented it, its a translation error etc. People are having heaven NDE's and Hell ones. People are going to hell for 23 minutes and people are going to heaven. Psychics and mediums are seeing good things and they are seeing bad things. It's the hardest of times because it is the most confusing of times. We don't know what to believe or what we are allowed to believe. Is something we read about or see good? Or is it evil? Does the bible condemn it or not. It goes on and on and on. These are tough questions that I doubt we will ever be able to answer. Unless we die and come back after twenty three minues :dontknow:
I find that psychics, mediums, witches, practitioners of magic, and others of that ilk as nothing more than a bunch of phonies. I lump them right up there with TV evangelists who claim to be faith healers.
Houdini proved that mediums are fake. Houdini promised to make an appearance before the whole world shortly after his death if communication with the dead was possible, and he would have done so without the need for chanting and sitting in a circle in a dark room. So far, almost a century later, Houdini has yet to make his appearance.
The magician duo of Penn and Teller are sorta modern day Houdinis. They have debunked a lot of the phoniness that goes on with these practitioners. Of course in ancient times, magicians, and even ventriloquists, were said to be in league with the devil. Today, both magic and its cousin ventriloquism are merely theatrical/entertainment talents, but in ancient times they were both used to deceive and convince people that they were in league with God, when in reality they were self serving charlatans. The magic was made to give the appearance of miracles, and the ventriloquism was used to make idols "speak", giving unsuspecting people the impression that God does speak through idols.
As far as that medium that DeeDee mentioned that cannot be disproved, that comes as no shock. Most magicians who are merely entertainers are such in which their secrets are also baffling. Therefore if a person with such a talent claims to have supernatural powers, it would be hard for the average layman to debunk.
Chuck
Then there are those that did much good and not for money or fame who were condemned by most all mainline church
denominations as being soothsayers, fortune tellers, carnival freaks and such labels to describe the person as evil.
Edgar Cayce was one of these.
Jean Dixon was another
And don't forget what the church did to Galileo just because he defied church authority, sometimes I wonder if the real demons aren't the ones at work in these various mislead churches transforming into ahgels of light when they go off on one of their condemnation "witch hunts", or during the Mc Carthy years "communist hunting"( there are communists lurking around every corner) or today when they go "terrorist hunting" (there are terrorists lurking in every shadow) all of this hatefulness, pointing fingers, casting stones, and condemnation carried out at the hands of some of these churches if these are not the spirit of the pharisee living and at work today? because none of these activities mentioned in this paragraph either politicaly promoted by these churches or carried out by any of these churches are of Christ. They pit one lone individual at a time against the system and tear them apart, well, I guess devide and conquer and deceive is how the spirit of darkness seems to do most of his work.
Fire Walker
Acts 16:16 makes it pretty clear that evil spirits are not only a source of this phenomenon, but that they can and do tell the truth as well. The slave girl (that made a lot of money for her masters by fortune telling) recognized the truth of Paul's message and followed them saying that they were messengers of God and were telling the truth about Jesus. That was the truth.
Even Lucifer Himself quoted scripture to Jesus during His temptation in the wilderness. It is often scripture that is twisted that becomes the lie.
:cloud9: Here's how you know. Test the spirits. On the day of Pentecost, the Spirit glorified the mighty works of God. Principle: the spirit always exalts the one who sent it. Apply this principle to anything you want and see if it does not point you in the right direction.
And BTW, those psychics, mediums, ect. that mouth words about God, that does not count as exalting God, because they are disobedient in their actions in the first place, and dishonoring Him does not exalt Him. Exalting Him is pointing people to Him, ie. His works/His nature/His Word/His Son, ect.; magnifying Him, not their so-called "gift", not their anything, but HIM. Blessings....
QuoteExalting Him is pointing people to Him, ie. His works/His nature/His Word/His Son, ect.; magnifying Him, not their so-called "gift", not their anything, but HIM. Blessings
:thumbsup: