aprrently the rapture will know be on july 24...

[Molly]

New International Version (©1984)
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah's day.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

International Standard Version (©2008)
because just as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be when the Son of Man comes.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
But just as the days of Noah, so will the coming of The Son of Man be.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"When the Son of Man comes again, it will be exactly like the days of Noah.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

American King James Version
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

American Standard Version
And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Darby Bible Translation
But as the days of Noe, so also shall be the coming of the Son of man.

English Revised Version
And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man.

Webster's Bible Translation
But as the days of Noah were, so will also the coming of the Son of man be.

Weymouth New Testament
For as it was in the time of Noah, so it will be at the Coming of the Son of Man.

World English Bible
"As the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

[Wakawakawaka]

this tuff is really messed up i dont see how those people even sleep at night

[Wakawakawaka]

hold on the rapture date has been changed AGAIN to 25 of september 2015 http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2012/marshall622-1.htm oh and Obama is the anti christ

[WhiteWings]

That's a day I can agree with.

[lomarah]

Poor Obama. :( Having to endure all those "anti-Christ" accusations. Good grief, he's just a human being like the rest of us. Give him a break already.

[Molly]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

--2 Thess 2:3

[Wakawakawaka]

this is even better the mayan cladener teachers a rapture! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR_ef3bfSg0&list=UUS2u5rlK_5r00FNGqKquU-g&index=0&feature=plcp

[Molly]

this is even better the mayan cladener teachers a rapture! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR_ef3bfSg0&list=UUS2u5rlK_5r00FNGqKquU-g&index=0&feature=plcp

This guy is very interesting.   Thanks.

It never occurred to me before that the dark side is trying to get into heaven by their own works and magic, but  that makes a lot of sense.

[Wakawakawaka]

what do u believe Molly are u one of teh rapture people

[Molly]

what do u believe Molly are u one of teh rapture people

I believe the Bible speaks of events that one could characterize as 'rapture,' yes.

[Wakawakawaka]

what kind of rapture..personally i think the pre trib thing sounds rather silly ..Jesus returning 3 times and all

[reFORMer]

Though I was raised in the "Rapture" doctrine, what I believe now is something similar to what is called "The Manifested Sons of God" doctrine.

I'm a partial preterist; meaning, much of what dispensationalist "Rapture" people put in our future I regard as having already happened, particularly Matthew 24 being fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I'm also somewhat of a post-Millennialist; meaning, there are additional increases of intimacy in His self-revelation to us as well as advancing unfolding of our identity as those who are born of God.  In a little more distant future we are part of what sits on the great white throne.  Nearer in time, what is to happen in crossing over into the Millennium is the revelation of the sons of God, not their disappearance.  Beginning with the humble and mature, the saints, the spiritually regenerated Christians are going to enter on into being born of God.  In the physical realm, our bodies of humiliation will be changed into a body like unto Jesus' immortal and incorruptible body of Glory.  It will not be possible for these people to be removed or to prevent them from doing the good, healing, teaching, freeing mankind.  They will reign in all the earth by the power of the Holy Ghost.  The contest against this and the rest of the servants of God could be called a Tribulation, only it's brought by the holy ones against the wicked, not with carnal weapons like swords, guns, bombs, tanks and such like.  The weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh.

Jesus said it was more expedient for us that He would go away, because then another Comforter would be sent to us in His name.  He was with us and would, as now, be in us.  Millions of people having what made Jesus what He was in each of them is more than it being in just one "Jesus."  Rather than looking for a retrograde carnal version of Jesus to walk with us in the Jerusalem below, the one that is in the Sinai Peninsula, I'm looking for what is in us to become revealed in the world and to become the determining factor for what happens here.

[Molly]

It could be there are two events.

One where Christ comes for his bride and they go into the marriage chamber. [rapture]

One where Christ returns with his saints to rule on earth. [second coming]

In this case, the bride would leave for a time and then return.

[Wakawakawaka]

well alot of rapture people claims that early church fathers taught rapture lie ephraem or even the Codex Amiatinus!

[jabcat]

I didn't know who Ephraem was.  I found the following information at www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/com/ephraem.htm, and below are a few excerpts.  It's interesting his view from 1700 years ago;

Preface to Ephraem's comments;  "For many years post-tribulationists and amillenialists have claimed that the pre-tribulational viewpoint is a recent teaching (circa 1800's) in the almost 2000 year history of the Church. And many claim that this lack of teaching by the early forefathers of the Church indicates that it is not a valid teaching because it would have been carried down in the Church writings.

Well that has all changed now with the recent translations of the writings of Ephraem the Syrian, circa 373 A.D. Ephraem was a major theologian and Christian writer of the Byzantine Church. He lived from approximately 306 A.D. to 373 A.D. Until recently a large number of his writing had yet to be translated into English."

Epraem reportedly said;

"the end of the world is very near, and the consummation remains"

"the coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled, and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom.... Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord"

"But when the time of the abomination of his desolation begins to approach, having been made legal, he takes the empire.... Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem; who, after coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations ... then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem" - end quote

[lomarah]

...The abomination of desolation is the selfish spirit of satan ruling in His temple - His temple being US, His church. Thus, when we can "see" this - when we see our own man of sin ruling in His temple (ourselves), the end of "our world" is near. Aka, we will decrease, He will increase (in us) until He becomes all in all. In us, and corporately in all of the members of His body. These are the things to focus on and look forward to and press in to attain, the cleansing of us! His temple! I for one can't wait for the day when He is all in all in me!!

[jabcat]

I'm personally not 100% absolutely locked in on one view that's taught.  I see reasonable "arguments" from both sides - and some not so reasonable ones lol.

[lomarah]

Yes I hear you jab. :)
I certainly don't know it all, and however all of this is going to manifest in the physical is beyond me. I am just at the point of not caring in the least because of the utter excitement of what God is doing in His people... and the coming of Tabernacles! :D And the end of sin, death, and pain!!

[jabcat]

There ya go.  I find various viewpoints interesting - some pieces are helpful, IMO, some not to be believed.

Personally, I believe certain things, and I guess I'll have to leave the final details up to Him.   :laughing7:

I believe He will return.  I Thes. 4:16

I believe there'll be some sort of catching up/catching away.  I Thes. 4:17

I believe we'll be totally transformed, made immortal.  I Cor. 15:53,54

I believe we'll be forever with Him.  I Thes. 4:17

I believe it's according to His Plan, grace, and power.  Phil. 1:6 (He who has begun a good work in you will complete it).

Exactly what all that will look like, is in His hands.  Blessings.

[redhotmagma]

Reformer that is one of the best ,clearest explanations of sons of God I have heard.

Lomarrah I heartily agree with your post of who the man of perdition is.

Just a thought. Could the rapture be the catching away of the bride, and the revealing of the sons be the presentation of the sons at/AS the temple on the eigth day?  That would be a short gestation but the change comes in a moment a twinking of the eye. I remember something about the midst of the week and presenting the sons

[Molly]

I didn't know who Ephraem was.  I found the following information at www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/com/ephraem.htm, and below are a few excerpts.  It's interesting his view from 1700 years ago;

Preface to Ephraem's comments;  "For many years post-tribulationists and amillenialists have claimed that the pre-tribulational viewpoint is a recent teaching (circa 1800's) in the almost 2000 year history of the Church. And many claim that this lack of teaching by the early forefathers of the Church indicates that it is not a valid teaching because it would have been carried down in the Church writings.

Well that has all changed now with the recent translations of the writings of Ephraem the Syrian, circa 373 A.D. Ephraem was a major theologian and Christian writer of the Byzantine Church. He lived from approximately 306 A.D. to 373 A.D. Until recently a large number of his writing had yet to be translated into English."

Epraem reportedly said;

"the end of the world is very near, and the consummation remains"

"the coming of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled, and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom.... Because all saints and the Elect of the Lord are gathered together before the tribulation which is to about to come and are taken to the Lord"

"But when the time of the abomination of his desolation begins to approach, having been made legal, he takes the empire.... Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem; who, after coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations ... then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem" - end quote

This is fascinating, Jab.  So he believed the elect would be gathered together and raptured prior to the  Great tribulation [the last 3.5 years].

" Ephraem's fascinating teaching on the Antichrist has never been published in English until now. This critically important prophecy manuscript from the fourth century of the Church era reveals a literal method of interpretation and a teaching of the pre-millennial return of Christ. More importantly, Ephraem's text revealed a very clear statement about the pretribulational return of Christ to take His elect saints home to heaven to escape the coming Tribulation. In addition, Ephraem declares his belief in a personal, Jewish Antichrist, who will rule the Roman Empire during the last days, a rebuilt Temple, the two witnesses and a literal Great Tribulation lasting 1,260 days. It is also fascinating to note that he taught that the War of Gog and Magog would precede the tribulation period. I discovered another text by Ephraem, called The Book of the Cave of Treasure, that revealed he taught that Daniel's Seventieth Week will be fulfilled in the final seven years at the end of this age that will conclude with Christ's return at the Battle of Armageddon to establish His kingdom."

He also sees Christ returning with his saints at the end of the Great tribulation.

"10. And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy or son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of the word of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints.... Then Christ shall come and the enemy shall be thrown into confusion, and the Lord shall destroy him by the Spirit of his mouth. And he shall be bound and shall be plunged into the abyss of everlasting fire alive with his father Satan; and all people, who do his wishes, shall perish with him forever; but the righteous ones shall inherit everlasting life with the Lord for ever and ever."

Seven years of tribulation with the rapture happening halfway through.  So, he sees first the rapture, then the Great Tribulation of 3.5 years under AntiChrist, then the return of Jesus with his saints at the end of the Great Tribulation to defeat the AntiChrist figure and set up Christ's kingdom on earth.

He was writing this in 373 and saying it was imminent.  What happened instead is that in 381, Theodosius made Christianity the official religion of the roman empire.

[Molly]

The AntiChrist is described by the prophet Daniel in Daniel 11:



36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain

[Molly]

Paul describes the AntiChrist.  Are there really people here who come as Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders?  You think you're the AntiChrist?





6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thess 2

[Molly]

More on the AntiChrist from the prophet Daniel in Daniel 8:



23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

[Molly]

Poor Obama. :( Having to endure all those "anti-Christ" accusations. Good grief, he's just a human being like the rest of us. Give him a break already.

Yeah, the poor guy just can't  get his story straight.  It's not a tax, it's a mandate,  it's not a tax, it's a gift, oops it IS a tax, oops it's the biggest tax in the history of the Republic.



25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;  Dan 8


"craft"

H4820
מרמה
mirmâh
meer-maw'
From H7411 in the sense of deceiving; fraud: - craft, deceit (-ful, -fully), false, feigned, guile, subtilly, treachery.