ADAM/EVE were ONE [male and female-] until a deep SLEEP (ignorance- ) came upon MANKIND.
The SPIRIT OF GOD (ADAM) and the SOUL OF MAN (EVE) were SEPERATED –WITHIN THE GARDEN (US).
eve then is shown to be the MIND\soul of ADAM birthing the carnal mind -
ADAM = mankinds is EVE is YOUR SOUL
EVE, your soul is the MOTHER of ALL living - with in HER womb [ HER MIND] she would bear TWO sons-- the FIRST after the seed of the serpent being CARNAL MAN\MIND the second shown as the SPIRITUAL man \the MIND of Christ- this pattern is repeated MANY times but HIDDEN
Isaac pleaded with the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was unable to have children. The LORD answered Isaac's prayer, and Rebekah became pregnant with twins.
Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
But the two children struggled with each other in her womb. So she went to ask the LORD about it. "Why is this happening to me?" she asked.
heres the promise that the second SON[ ACHRIST TYPE OUR NEW EVE] WOULD PREVAIL over the our first EVE
And the LORD told her, "The sons in your womb will become two nations. From the very beginning the two nations will be rivals. One nation will be stronger than the other; and your older son will serve your younger son."
is this really speaking about pregnant women
3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy conception; in pain thou shalt bring forth children[a) son, male child]; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
The woman is eve-our soul who rebelled-
this verse is reference to the CHILDBEARING of the WOMAN who was told to be Silent--= saved BY CHILBEARING
Paul mentions TRAVAIL, UNTIL the LORD is FORMED in them-- travail is childbirth and the pangs thereof-
paraphased-- there will be MUCH pain and sorrow Birthing the SON within your WOMB= MIND= eve
"Yet by your husband is your restoration, and he shall rule over you.
who is the HUSBAND? its Christ -who shall restore the SOUL\eve and HE shall RULE over you- as IS the same AS THE WOMAN\EVE subject to the man\Christ = HIS CHURCH---
For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, [and] the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, [that] bewaileth herself, [that] spreadeth her hands, [saying], Woe [is] me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.
O inhabitant of Lebanon, that makest thy nest in the cedars, how gracious shalt thou be when pangs come upon thee, the pain as of a woman in travail
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
and then JOHN
A woman[ YOUR EVE] when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
WHAT NOW concerning the PAINS and sorrow of CHILDBIRTH, the resoration of HIM IN US , the BIRTHING\renewing of our soul\MIND-
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Then ADAM Spoke once again to Eve
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Jhn 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Jhn 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Jhn 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not].
Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Jhn 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Jhn 8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Jhn 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Did you mention the Nachash [serpent] anywhere?
What does it mean that enmity is put between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash?
Why doesn't it say between the seed of the man and the seed of the Nachash?
If the woman is the soul--what is the Nachash? Are you saying woman=soul=serpent? Or are you saying the soul does not necessarily have to be carnal?
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 09:39:38 PM
Did you mention the Nachash [serpent] anywhere?
What does it mean that enmity is put between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash?
Why doesn't it say between the seed of the man and the seed of the Nachash?
If the woman is the soul--what is the Nachash? Are you saying woman=soul=serpent? Or are you saying the soul does not necessarily have to be carnal?
Molly- if you read any other posting about the serpent-- its within MAN [our eve]it brings forth earthy understanding, not grasping the spiritual-- tis why it CRAWLS on its belly[ MIND] in the DUST= its what births only the natural understanding in US-- consider the JEWS just LIKE serpents who couldnt see the SPIRITUAL TRUTH of Christ being the reality of the LAW and OPPOSSED HIM--so yes the sepernt within us our soul\mind is our eve -the carnal mind
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your
minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
considerTHE two sons which EVE- thats our mind -our womb has TWO sons in it-- one after the serpent= carnal mind= the latter shown after the spiritual man[ Christ] HIS MIND= seed.. HENCE the carnal mind is enmity to HIS--- :icon_flower:
the latter son[ mind] will prevail over the formerbeing the serpent----
ENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
- eve is OUR soul shown as the carnal MIND but HIDDEN "WITHIN IT " IS HIS SEED- SLAIN from the beginning- HIS seed lays sleeping till made awake- HE makes DARKNESS- thats THE CARANL MIND HIS hiding PLACE, hid behind the veil wating to resurrect with in-- is that better? :icon_flower:
I don't know.
So the seed of the woman[the soul] is Christ.
The seed of the Nachash [the soul] is carnal mind?
The soul is both Christ and the carnal mind? Or, Christ hidden inside the carnal mind? :dontknow:
Molly maybe this quote explains it a bit. :winkgrin:
Quote from: Taffy on April 27, 2011, 04:20:36 PM
im still very much dazed by the anestetic
:lazy: nite
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 11:05:10 PM
I don't know.
The soul is both Christ and the carnal mind? Or, Christ hidden inside the carnal mind? :dontknow:
YES molly OUR eve being the carnal when BIRTHED slew HIM-- so he lays SLEEPING= dead to the carnal mind awaiting to resurrect once again within- By him sleeping, the carnal minded sleep with him, Being DEAD""" to""" HIM
consider this-this is underlooked scripture supporting UR :icon_flower:
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or
sleep, we
should live together with him. 1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him,
Let the dead bury
their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Molly he sais all things in the figurative---
whats the dead IN THEM-- THEIR SOUL right---- so let them BURY [ put to DEATH] the DEAD soul IN THEM- ie their soul needs SLAYING- so CHRIST can LIVE--- :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on April 27, 2011, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
- eve is OUR soul shown as the carnal MIND but HIDDEN "WITHIN IT " IS HIS SEED- SLAIN from the beginning- HIS seed lays sleeping till made awake- HE makes DARKNESS- thats THE CARANL MIND HIS hiding PLACE, hid behind the veil wating to resurrect with in-- is that better? :icon_flower:
From whence this teaching? I have to believe there is some teacher or paper on this thinking of eve is our soul/woman/carnal mind the flesh, the serpent etc.
Im not trying to be out of line, I just would like to know where these thoughts and reasonings come from. Or are you the first to bring this forward? I believe there is something to it and to consider, but I cannot understand why it is so adamantly spoken, thats it, period, forget about believing that there is another understanding.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: Taffy on April 27, 2011, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
- eve is OUR soul shown as the carnal MIND but HIDDEN "WITHIN IT " IS HIS SEED- SLAIN from the beginning- HIS seed lays sleeping till made awake- HE makes DARKNESS- thats THE CARANL MIND HIS hiding PLACE, hid behind the veil wating to resurrect with in-- is that better? :icon_flower:
From whence this teaching? I have to believe there is some teacher or paper on this thinking of eve is our soul/woman/carnal mind the flesh, the serpent etc.
Im not trying to be out of line, I just would like to know where these thoughts and reasonings come from. Or are you the first to bring this forward? I believe there is something to it and to consider, but I cannot understand why it is so adamantly spoken, thats it, period, forget about believing that there is another understanding.
mm-- I know more then a few who understand this-- Like at tent- along with others who see it too elsewhere -- also --- its no one off mystery Brother--- for mine paul KNEWthis too-- :icon_flower:
Paul knew this too
Taffy
That's a big claim to make, on a teaching like this. I often find revelation understandable with a bit of study and prayer but this one, seems to jump over here and there, slide around, twist, do a time jump, then leap into other territory. Either it's a complex revelation, or it's mans attempt to explain something that does not exist or I perceive perhaps just a personal idea of what the symbols mean to the individual, but it's a bit far fetched to say that the apostle Paul also saw Genesis in this manner. We see that the apostle Paul took Genesis seriously and believed that Adam and Eve were real people of God.
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Quote from: thinktank on April 28, 2011, 01:12:42 AM
Paul knew this too
Taffy
That's a big claim to make, on a teaching like this. I often find revelation understandable with a bit of study and prayer but this one, seems to jump over here and there, slide around, twist, do a time jump, then leap into other territory. Either it's a complex revelation, or it's mans attempt to explain something that does not exist or I perceive perhaps just a personal idea of what the symbols mean to the individual, but it's a bit far fetched to say that the apostle Paul also saw Genesis in this manner. We see that the apostle Paul took Genesis seriously and believed that Adam and Eve were real people of God.
2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
:icon_flower:
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the
LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.
even up until noah there was no rain on the earth- wow- have you noticed that? must have been aThirsty place TT-- Christ spoke in parables and for mine the figurative is the purpose of what being told-- even through out genesis let alone the Garden-- :icon_flower:
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
Kind of a NATURAL unexplainable Mystery Micah EGH?--again the figurative for mine is where its at Brother :icon_flower:
You are just so wise that I am beginning to feel somewhat at a disadvantage and unread. I may have to log off, for me thinks my posts will only cause laughter and greif on the forum debating with such a parable knowledged and spiritual one. I perhpas need to feel humbled and embarassed :sigh:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 02:12:54 AM
You are just so wise that I am beginning to feel somewhat at a disadvantage and unread. I may have to log off, for me thinks my posts will only cause laughter and greif on the forum debating with such a parable knowledged and spiritual one. I perhpas need to feel humbled and embarassed :sigh:
Not at all Brother - Im
given to share what Im
given to see --one
gleans from the body knowing the
HEAD is WHO Gives the
increase-- TO HIM the
praise ALWAYS- in the hope it Uplifts others--- :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
Interesting you mention that. I also noticed something big in Genesis, a few days ago. Perhaps were onto something. I will share soon.
Taffy, my friend and brother I was under the impression that a PM was a private message, I did not know it could or would be posted as quotes on the forum. Its fine with me, I was just unaware that you were a seer, and that your spiritual inflow and knowledge was such an influence to others, you know the bottom line, the dot at the end of the sentence, the last word, thus saith the lord. I feel a need to request your forgiveness. Yeah its heavy sarcasim but unfortunatlly I never met anyone like you. I do not retract a single PM my friend. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 02:47:29 AM
Taffy, my friend and brother I was under the impression that a PM was a private message, I did not know it could or would be posted as quotes on the forum. Its fine with me, I was just unaware that you were a seer, and that your spiritual inflow and knowledge was such an influence to others, you know the bottom line, the dot at the end of the sentence, the last word, thus saith the lord. I feel a need to request your forgiveness. Yeah its heavy sarcasim but unfortunatlly I never met anyone like you. I do not retract a single PM my friend. :HeartThrob:
Brother- i felt it necessary after your kind post to inform others That Im
NOTHING-- one didnt mean it to overlap with our conversation :HeartThrob:
you have no need for a request for forgivness here Micah--- we are HIS body, prayerfully building each OTHER up---
Blessings :icon_flower:
:handshake:
You dear Taffy are no more NOTHINGthan I. It is your platform that woman/eve/ is the soul...carnal mind and the serpent that stunts my mental understanding.
I felt the same way about many things the Lutheran church taught, then the Baptist church, then Pentacost, then non denominational. I just dont get how some things get nailed down as, well here is the answer, when there is someone who cannot, will not, or is not supposed to see that, "thus says the lord."
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 03:23:09 AM
You dear Taffy are no more NOTHINGthan I. It is your platform that woman/eve/ is the soul...carnal mind and the serpent that stunts my mental understanding.
I felt the same way about many things the Lutheran church taught, then the Baptist church, then Pentacost, then non denominational. I just dont get how some things get nailed down as, well here is the answer, when there is someone who cannot, will not, or is not supposed to see that, "thus says the lord."
no worries Brother-- no worries--- :HeartThrob: if it blesses fine- if it doesnt -- thats fine too bro--- :icon_flower:
No worries. Still I feel that there may be worries of some sort, but I will not worry about them.
Quote from: thinktank on April 28, 2011, 01:12:42 AMI often find revelation understandable with a bit of study
The carnal bloke I am I agree with that statement. But there are various ways of study. The usual study of looking up verses word meanings etc etc.
But there is another method of studying. Just accept a teaching/idea as true (for a few weeks). Then just do your regular Bible stuff and simply keep checking if that teaching fits. You don't have to understand why. Just see if it makes sense in more than just 1 place.
A good example of that is 'for ever' and 'age'. You can start digging in real deep in the ancient Greek. At scholar level. Go to the library and search for old none Biblical writings. Or.... you can just accept it and at every possible verse see if age makes more sense that for ever. If it never does makes sense you debunked the idea without looking up one Greek word. If it does you at least have some prove the age teaching isn't totally insane.
:2c:
Granted and agreed, but that is but a word.
Quote from: Taffy on April 28, 2011, 01:58:18 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
Kind of a NATURAL unexplainable Mystery Micah EGH?--again the figurative for mine is where its at Brother :icon_flower:
I think somewhere it says vapor/mist rose from the ground.
Elsewhere it writes that God blesses friend and enemy with rain. So why not the first people? The farming activities of Adam would eb rather futile without rain.
So I think the verse must mean something else.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 28, 2011, 07:17:45 AM
Quote from: Taffy on April 28, 2011, 01:58:18 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
Kind of a NATURAL unexplainable Mystery Micah EGH?--again the figurative for mine is where its at Brother :icon_flower:
I think somewhere it says vapor/mist rose from the ground.
Elsewhere it writes that God blesses friend and enemy with rain. So why not the first people? The farming activities of Adam would eb rather futile without rain.
So I think the verse must mean something else.
mm the rain will fall on the righteous and unrighteous?or do yopu mean JUST getting wet :winkgrin: =
My doctrine shall
drop as the rain, my
speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: evenin the natural sense seems this was many many year later
maybe this is talking about Clouds, where RAIN falls? Interesting The LORD is KNOWN as a CLOUD who is SPIRIT---LIFE-
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Job 36:27 For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof:
even so WW- the above doesnt negate there was No rain on the EARTH until Noah and the FLOOD :icon_flower:
I just presented to TT that is the figurativ eof the story which matters--one couldnt matter less if it REALLY did happen or not--- thats not the point - as I wasnt around to see it all-- :icon_flower:
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 28, 2011, 07:12:14 AM
Quote from: thinktank on April 28, 2011, 01:12:42 AMI often find revelation understandable with a bit of study
The carnal bloke I am I agree with that statement. But there are various ways of study. The usual study of looking up verses word meanings etc etc.
But there is another method of studying. Just accept a teaching/idea as true (for a few weeks). Then just do your regular Bible stuff and simply keep checking if that teaching fits. You don't have to understand why. Just see if it makes sense in more than just 1 place.
A good example of that is 'for ever' and 'age'. You can start digging in real deep in the ancient Greek. At scholar level. Go to the library and search for old none Biblical writings. Or.... you can just accept it and at every possible verse see if age makes more sense that for ever. If it never does makes sense you debunked the idea without looking up one Greek word. If it does you at least have some prove the age teaching isn't totally insane.
:2c:
I pretty much ignored the allegorical, its been pounded into my head literal, then if all else fails allegorical. Even then I'd never really heard any allegory teaching until I came here. And even then I still pretty much ignored it. BUT my friend is going through a separation possible divorce. We talk a lot about it, and when I speak, I become filled with the Spirit (again a new reality for me, being sure at least) and out of my mouth comes the allegory. I at first wrote it off, but this week I decided to do what WW has recommended. And by I decided, I really mean He led me, because I was definitely not looking for it. I've had a bunch of topics I've been chewing over, and every time I try to look into one topic, all I see is covering, toungue, mind, thoughts, seed. The other morning I woke up saying this over and over in my head: "Dabar Yah, Deborah".
Quote from: RHMThe other morning I woke up saying this over and over in my head: "Dabar Yah, Deborah".
Dabar YahWord of the LORD
"Deborah"H1682
דּברה דּבורה
debôrâh
debôrâhdeb-o-raw', deb-o-raw'
From H1696 (in the sense of orderly motion);
the bee (from its systematic instincts): -
bee.Matthew 3:4
And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
:mblush:The name Deborah comes from the root , meaning to speak or pronounce. It's also where the phrase "Word of God" comes from, and is identical to the word , meaning bee.
Deborah the prophetess - for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. the WORD of TRUTH
bees make Honey - the LAND of MILK and HONEY is the promised""LAND""
HONEY--
1 Samuel 14:27
But Jonathan heard not when his father charged the people with the oath: wherefore he put forth the end of the rod that was in his hand, and dipped it in an honeycomb, and put his hand to his mouth; and his eyes were enlightened.
A revelation of TRUTH ,
1 Samuel 14:43
Then Saul said to Jonathan, Tell me what thou hast done. And Jonathan told him, and said, I did but taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in mine hand, and, lo, I must die.
honey is the Knowledge of GODS wisdom---
PROVERBS 24: 13 My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste: 14So shall the knowledge of wisdom be unto thy soul: when thou hast found it, then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off.
Expand the context a bit more on that event . . .the honey was not found in the hollow of a tree or in a carcass of a lion . .which is another profound analogy . . .but here, the honey was on the ground . . .since when does honey accumulate on the ground??
The thing about allegories is . . . they are no different than the literal words if we aren't enabled by the Spirit to "see" them. Jesus only spoke in allegories . . he was talking on several levels of truth to those listening to him. He spent much of the beginning of his ministry trying to explain the principles of the kingdom to us, he tried telling us that spiritual principles operate on a whole other level of rules than our realm of thinking can comprehend.
This is why faith is such a huge factor in our relationship with the Father. Defining faith is the key to understanding the principles of the kingdom. Walking in knowledge is not the same as walking in faith . . .and as a result, there will always be a different, and may I be so bold to say a "lesser" outcome. Relying on my minds LIMITED abilities to interpret the spiritual truths of Scripture will always leave me incomplete and deformed because I try to make whole conclusions with limited understanding.
So the next best thing people do is rely on what others have elaborated on . . .such as commentators, dictonaries, many various kinds of study helps through which we feel more comfortable in coming to a conclusion as to what we beleive. But for me, it all goes back to that "Peter experience" where Jesus asked him on a personal level "Who do YOU say that I am?" At which point I beleive Peter received his first revelation of who Jesus was. And Jesus expounded even more on the event by stating that flesh and blood didn't teach you this . . .and there is the crux.
All of our studying and mental disciplinary activity really can only do for us what Moses (law) did for Israel, he could lead them 'to" the promised land, but not "in" it. Jesus even directly addressed this issue with the Pharisees . . .he told them "you search the Scriptures for in them you think you'll find eternal life, but they merely point to me . . ." Scripture, in all of it's greatness, is still nothing more than a sign pointing "to" Christ. Study it, search it, adhere to it all you want, but it's not the person, it's merely a depiction of who Jesus is. It can't "reveal" spiritual truth . . .only the living author who wrote it can do that.
Why allegories? Why not just plain truth? Because allegories are directed toward our spiritiual well-being. Our minds can only comprehend what's plainly written, but spiritual truth is not for our minds, it's for our hearts. So the mind reads one thing while the heart takes it to a whole other level of someithng else. It literally requires faith to see what isn't tangibly there. We merely rely on receiving what God is showing rather than relying on embracing what our minds are projecting. One is liberation through relationship. The other is bondage through religion.
QuoteStudy it, search it, adhere to it all you want, but it's not the person, it's merely a depiction of who Jesus is. It can't "reveal" spiritual truth . . .only the living author who wrote it can do that.
This is why faith is such a huge factor in our relationship with the Father. Defining faith is the key to understanding the principles of the kingdom. Walking in knowledge is not the same as walking in faith
:icon_flower:
I have faith that the creation of Genesis is a real account of Gods mysterious power in action. Fair enough if people don't find it spiritually benificial. But I for one find the mystery of our creation of the human race to be fascinating and I personaly belive that if mankind knew our origins better, that the world would be a much better place.
Not knowing our history, makes many people anxious about what exactly it means, to be human. Are we just random acts of creation, or nothing more than intelligent animals. But understanding that we were created in Gods image for me, brings me a certain amount of peace. The full details of our creation may not be fully understood yet, but in time, God will reveal more about our origins and through various sectors, whether it's through science, religion, philosophy, math, etc. These sectors may not be inspired directly by God, but their contributions helps the man of faith, utilize their findings and tools to find out more about the creation of life. Even Jesus used the tools of man, by utilizing the scholary writings written by posibly religious scribes of Isiah, in order to preach to the congregation. So rather that science are tools of the devil, they can be used for Godly purposes to bring understanding or cement evidence of the authroity of the scriptures.
You stated
These sectors may not be inspired directly by God, but their contributions helps the man of faith, utilize their findings and tools to find out more about the creation of life
But don't you think it would be so much greater to have God reveal "his" desires to us today rather than us try to prove where he was yesterday?
You stated
Even Jesus used the tools of man, by utilizing the scholary writings written by posibly religious scribes of Isiah, in order to preach to the congregation
You view the Scriptures as tools of men? I thought they were inspired by the Spirit? For me, the things Jesus preached were not so much things that derived from the minds of men, but from the heart of God BECAUSE of the destructive nature that manifests through the minipulations of the minds of men. The Scriptures were not mens tools, they were/are God's voice. The process here is man "proving" something God is providing. That's not faith at all. If we have a relationship with God, we have a direct path spiritually into the very things flesh is trying to prove naturally.
You again stated
So rather that science are tools of the devil, they can be used for Godly purposes to bring understanding or cement evidence of the authroity of the scriptures
I'm not against science at all . . .but all of science is based on proof. All of God is based on faith. Why would I use methods of proof to enable me to walk in faith when proof is just the opposite of faith. Whether they can prove Noah's ark existed or not has absolutely no bearing on what I see the ark to be. It doesn't change it's significance a tiny bit, it doesn't change the pattern of what it represents . . .let the scientists spend their lives doing whatever compels them. But regardless of what they prove or disprove, nothing they accomplish will affect the depths of where faith lies. It doesn't lie in evidence, it lies in relationship.
it's as Scripture states, if light is in our eye, then everything we see will have light in it . . .but if darkness is in our eye . . .it's not what is in front of us, it's what's within us that dictates what we'll see or won't see. That's why faith is the activating force at work in us. It doesn't take into account what is seen in the natural. In fact, it challenges us to defy what we're seeing with our eyes and proclaim what we're seeing in our hearts.
You stated
Even Jesus used the tools of man, by utilizing the scholary writings written by posibly religious scribes of Isiah, in order to preach to the congregation
You view the Scriptures as tools of men? I thought they were inspired by the Spirit? For me, the things Jesus preached were not so much things that derived from the minds of men, but from the heart of God BECAUSE of the destructive nature that manifests through the minipulations of the minds of men. The Scriptures were not mens tools, they were/are God's voice. The process here is man "proving" something God is providing. That's not faith at all. If we have a relationship with God, we have a direct path spiritually into the very things flesh is trying to prove naturally.
No I see the scriptures as God inspired, but yet the tool of man, which is the ability of man to write. Men of faith utilize the tools that worldy men have created with their hands. There is a scripture which says, let the thief work with his hands, that he may repay.
The scriptures are Gods words, but yet he uses mans pen, to write the words.
Isaiah 50:2
Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst.
Take this computer for example, and the Internet, even though here we speak of faith, it is thanks to the work of unbeliving man that these tools exist.
I'm not saying that science can replace faith, science is way behind what faith can accomplish. eg while science gets to grip with trying to increase human life span by another month and to make life here more comfortable, faith filled beleivers already know in our hearts that our eternal life awaits us in eternal peace. But that does not stop a faith filled scientists to take what the evolutist or unbeleiving scientist has discovered and use that information to help improve our lives here on earth. Jesus said to occupy till he comes, we are to heal the sick and be of service to mankind, to make this world a better place. Our faith is good, but it can be used to turn that faith to help others who have no faith.
Really? Where does faith come from then? What's it's origin?
I think there are two types of faith. One is in God's character and his truth, which Christians must press into.
Then there is worldy type faith that unbeleivers can utilize, such as the wise men of old, the astrologers, etc scientists e.g Einstein, who discover revoloutionary ideas, that were brough forth, from Einsteins dreams and his inquisitive mind.
Perhaps maybe even a third type of faith, where people have faith in each other, couples etc, or have faith in prodcuts. E.g a person has faith that he will win the lottery, or that he will win the jackpot in roulette, or that a certain stock in a company will skyrocket, or that the Allies will win victory over the Axis of evil.
All of these faiths, I reason, but especially, faith in God, requires belief in things not yet seen.
:2c:
Jeeze, isn't that the same as saying there are different kinds of being pregnant?
The scripture says that God is unseen and says faith is the unseen. But also says even the demons believe in God and tremble.
So I reason that faith in God is much more than simpply believing he exists, but to have faith in his character and His holyness and his holy word.
There are many who beleive in a God, the bible mentions that they worshipped idols and had faith in the idols. So what my post is trying to convey is that, often people use the term faith, but they have a very different understanding of what it means to them personally.
:2c:
...Adam, which was the son of God.
--Luke 3
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 01:25:44 AM
...Adam, which was the son of God.
--Luke 3
:HeartThrob:
who was the Fallen ANgel, the morning star in eze 28--- :icon_flower:
Everything has a different meaning personally. For me there are only two kinds of faith . . . I'm not even sure the best way to describe it. Believing in ANYTHING that can not be seen is faith. But not all faith is productive. That might be a good word . . .productive faith and destructive faith. One brings hope and promise, the other brings fear and bondage . . .and even death. I call it dark faith . . . but my wrestling begins with trying to contrast that with . .what? "Light" faith?
For me, worry is faith. It's seeing things that aren't as though they are . . .that's what faith is. We all have faith . . .it's the application of that faith that will then manifest in different ways. And you and i may even be saying the same thing, I don't know. It's just the way I read it, sounded confusing for me.
Faith comes from Christ, the author and perfector of our faith, and is evidence of Christ in us, which is why it is impossible to please God without faith.
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Heb 11:6
I am not sure how this topic got here, but I feel that way about many things discussed here.
FAITH Heb 11:1
(ASV) Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.
(CLV) Now faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed;"
(KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
(Rotherham) But faith is, of things hoped for, a confidence, of facts, a conviction, when they are not seen;
(RYLT-NT) And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
(WNT) Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.
(Wuest's) 1-3 Now faith is the title deed of things hoped for, the proof of things which are not being seen. For by means of this the elders had witness borne to them. By means of faith we perceive that the material universe and the God-appointed ages of time were equipped and fitted by God's word for the purpose for which they were intended, and it follows therefore that that which we see did not come into being out of that which is visible.
(YLT) And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,
Faith is a step, no, it is a giant step past believing
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: Taffy on April 27, 2011, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
- eve is OUR soul shown as the carnal MIND but HIDDEN "WITHIN IT " IS HIS SEED- SLAIN from the beginning- HIS seed lays sleeping till made awake- HE makes DARKNESS- thats THE CARANL MIND HIS hiding PLACE, hid behind the veil wating to resurrect with in-- is that better? :icon_flower:
From whence this teaching? I have to believe there is some teacher or paper on this thinking of eve is our soul/woman/carnal mind the flesh, the serpent etc.
Im not trying to be out of line, I just would like to know where these thoughts and reasonings come from. Or are you the first to bring this forward? I believe there is something to it and to consider, but I cannot understand why it is so adamantly spoken, thats it, period, forget about believing that there is another understanding.
Micah, read "Types in Genesis" by Andrew Jukes
Very good book IMO
Taffy I see the serpent more as our flesh life, the life we have other then the life of Christ.
When our soul (eve) is intimate with our serpent (flesh life) they produce the carnal mind with all its lust.
Quote from: pneuma on May 01, 2011, 01:13:21 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 12:45:04 AM
Quote from: Taffy on April 27, 2011, 10:53:33 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
Quote from: TaffyENMITYis hatred- they oppose one another as does the carnal Mind against the spiritual--- shown in allegory within the post
I'm trying to see how/if your allegory holds up--because the enmity is not between the woman[soul/carnal mind] and the man[spirit]. It is between the seed of the woman and the seed of the Nachash.
So the woman is producing seed and the Nachash is producing the seed and the two are at enmity. So who is the woman in the allegory and who is the Nachash, and how are they different? How is their seed different? Whence comes the enmity?
- eve is OUR soul shown as the carnal MIND but HIDDEN "WITHIN IT " IS HIS SEED- SLAIN from the beginning- HIS seed lays sleeping till made awake- HE makes DARKNESS- thats THE CARANL MIND HIS hiding PLACE, hid behind the veil wating to resurrect with in-- is that better? :icon_flower:
From whence this teaching? I have to believe there is some teacher or paper on this thinking of eve is our soul/woman/carnal mind the flesh, the serpent etc.
Im not trying to be out of line, I just would like to know where these thoughts and reasonings come from. Or are you the first to bring this forward? I believe there is something to it and to consider, but I cannot understand why it is so adamantly spoken, thats it, period, forget about believing that there is another understanding.
Micah, read "Types in Genesis" by Andrew Jukes
Very good book IMO
Taffy I see the serpent more as our flesh life, the life we have other then the life of Christ.
When our soul (eve) is intimate with our serpent (flesh life) they produce the carnal mind with all its lust.
:thumbsup: its the serpent realm EARTH \soul\our eve ] in which it dwells -\aka Peter being called satan :icon_flower:
Quote from: pneuma on May 01, 2011, 01:13:21 PM
"Types in Genesis" by Andrew Jukes
For those interested:
Website - Free (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/types/typesgen-contents.htm)
e-Sword module - Free (http://www.alampthatburns.net/e-sword/eswmods.htm)
Printed and electronic copies - $ (http://www.alampthatburns.net/e-sword/eswmods.htm)
Download in Microsoft Word format - Free (http://www.4shared.com/get/LeBlsINC/Types_In_Genesis_Andrew_Jukes_.html)
Other writings by Jukes (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/jukes.htm)
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 01, 2011, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: pneuma on May 01, 2011, 01:13:21 PM
"Types in Genesis" by Andrew Jukes
For those interested:
Website - Free (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/types/typesgen-contents.htm)
e-Sword module - Free (http://www.alampthatburns.net/e-sword/eswmods.htm)
Printed and electronic copies - $ (http://www.alampthatburns.net/e-sword/eswmods.htm)
Download in Microsoft Word format - Free (http://www.4shared.com/get/LeBlsINC/Types_In_Genesis_Andrew_Jukes_.html)
Other writings by Jukes (http://www.alampthatburns.net/jukes/jukes.htm)
TY for those links Tony- The law of the sacrifices is the best written article ive ever read- :icon_flower:
I've brought this topic back up because I have a couple of questions which suddenly came into my head last night which tie in with Adam and Eve. I didn't want to start a new topic, so here it goes.
I was sat on my bed last night, listening to some music and a thought came to me; 'Is the carnal mind part of my spirit?' Then another thought, 'Were Adam and Eve already carnally minded because they succumbed to temptation, leading to the Fall?'
So it lead onto more thoughts about me, my spirit, my very being. Are our spirits corrupted and therefore the Holy Spirit is the quickening spirit that makes us alive?
When the terms like 'flesh' are used, is that another way of saying carnal/adamic nature? So if I have a drink, and I want to have more, is that my physical brain wanting more, or is it the carnal side of my spirit wanting more?
I hope that makes some sort of sense.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 28, 2011, 01:55:13 AM
I had noticed sometime ago that it did not rain until Gen. 7:4 and then God caused the flood. It is very interesting that Adam according to Gen.3:17-19 was to do all that farming or growing, tilling, toiling, whatever with out a drop of water/rain. That I believe is substansial.
See Genesis 2:6 - anyway, the Hopi people of Arizona will plant corn in what is basically desert soil (I have seen this in Mexico too) and up the shoot comes. One Hopi commented, "The white man doesn't know how we do this."
Genesis 2:4-5 does NOT state that there was no rain until the time of Noah. It simply states that before man was created, rain had not yet been sent.
NIV translation
"4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, when the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.
5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth[a] and no plant had yet sprung up, FOR (or because)the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
No need for it to rain until Adam was there a few days later.
:thumbsup:Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Strong's H108 - 'ed lexicon , exhalation or vapour of the ground whence clouds are formed , so called from surrounding and covering the earth like a vail
green house effect ? :Chinscratch:
Quotegreen house effect
Or a giant artisan well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer)
Same well, with a vastly reduced output, that provided water for Temple services.
It's (on of) the biggest underground river ever found.
Wet was there, how don't know,a mist was there, it says. Personally I think word and idea playing is amusing.