It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But [f]actually, I wrote to you not to associate [g]with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God [h]judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. (NASB)
Now, that's very important to know for believers that we are not to associate with immoral people that are believers even. But there is one part that puzzles me:
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We know also from Paul's epistles that "flesh" usually means a man's carnal nature, wordly desires, and it is also known that the Spirit gives life, and peace. But still, what does this mean ? How was that man delivered to Satan for that purpose ?
Thoughts?
Paul washed his hands of him..?
Comparing that with 2 Corinthians:
But this rebuke that is from the many is sufficient for him. And now on the other hand, it is necessary to forgive him and comfort him, lest he who is such be swallowed up in excessive grief. Therefore I beseech you to confirm your love to him.
(2Co 2:6-8)
And with another instance of this same handing over to Satan:
Like Humenayus and Alexandraus, those whom I have delivered to Satan* that they may be instructed not to blaspheme. *
(1Ti 1:20)
I see it as a very harsh form of instruction, compared to the putting out of leaven. Physically he is אבדנא, isolated from the corporate body and fellowship, (discussed in another post) where he would suffer the consequences of his actions, and Satan (the accuser) would have full sway on this brother, producing godly grief, leading to a change of heart, and restoration and confirmation of love back into the body where he belongs.
Ronen
when we repeatedly prefer to entertain the messengers of satan..over the Holy spirit..and grieve the Holy spirit to such an extent..
then God may hand us over..to satan and the evil..and our lives are quickly wrecked..for they have no mercy.......outside the fold
of protection of the shepherd the evil one enjoys the displaying of his malice against you[see Job's expierence]and other men...
example's of such ones in the world are such as the Jeffrey Dahmers,and John wayne Gaceys etc.
Quote from: gregoryfl on February 16, 2016, 07:22:58 PM
Comparing that with 2 Corinthians:
But this rebuke that is from the many is sufficient for him. And now on the other hand, it is necessary to forgive him and comfort him, lest he who is such be swallowed up in excessive grief. Therefore I beseech you to confirm your love to him.
(2Co 2:6-8)
And with another instance of this same handing over to Satan:
Like Humenayus and Alexandraus, those whom I have delivered to Satan* that they may be instructed not to blaspheme. *
(1Ti 1:20)
I see it as a very harsh form of instruction, compared to the putting out of leaven. Physically he is אבדנא, isolated from the corporate body and fellowship, (discussed in another post) where he would suffer the consequences of his actions, and Satan (the accuser) would have full sway on this brother, producing godly grief, leading to a change of heart, and restoration and confirmation of love back into the body where he belongs.
Ronen
So good to see you again posting Ronen :dsunny:
I love it that you brought up the scripture teaching them NOT to blaspheme,
this is the only sin where you cannot be forgive in the age [tree of knowledge of Good and evil ] law of sin [acknowledge as good and repent ] and death /evil/ hardships suffering bad etc ..
the age to come is the grace of the LORD JESUS CHRIST , I believe they were cast back into the binding under the law where the adversaries can accuse till they learn better , being the rods of men and they shall be their judges Matthew 12:27
Great question Eduard ....
I don't think so Marie , for me it is like schooling in class , if you fail that you are held back for a time ... rejected branch , go further up and on out .
I do believe in my heart , the only way satan can accuse before God day and night is back under the Law of sin and death [ this age of knowledge of good and evil tree ]
Jesus is the tree of LIFE and only can enter though Him the Door , it is His mercy on us , I am the door / gate to the sheepfold ..etc..John 10
Jesus Christ come in the fulness of time [Rev12 ] being fulfilled to me and satan was earth bound from this time forth and the flood waters as the earth opened its mouth to receive the flood of lies and Matthew 24 the parable of the flood coming to wash them sandy small and divided ones all away...
But the Woman was spared though child bearing , the man child was given and the Christ is born the savior of the world
and those born again though the way with the testimony of Jesus Christ written in their hearts Jesus Christ being that Rock set in place that we are to build upon Grace upon grace in holiness to the Lord and His own glory .
Blasphemy is the only sin unforgivable in the age under the law , heat of the day , till they pay the last penny of prison sentence matt 5 , 25,26 or age to come Which is the age of grace ..
and that is speaking evil against the very One who can and will save you ..
Quote from: Eduard on February 16, 2016, 04:18:17 PM
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But [f]actually, I wrote to you not to associate [g]with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God [h]judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. (NASB)
Now, that's very important to know for believers that we are not to associate with immoral people that are believers even. But there is one part that puzzles me:
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We know also from Paul's epistles that "flesh" usually means a man's carnal nature, wordly desires, and it is also known that the Spirit gives life, and peace. But still, what does this mean ? How was that man delivered to Satan for that purpose ?
Thoughts?
He is being turned over to his own disobedience (Satan). This means he is not to be accepted because he was found to not want to walk in the ways of the righteous as they are being called in this dispensation. Therefore, this one is not to be fellowshipped with and therefore this one will have to have his spirit saved in the day of Christ (at his coming during the 1000 year reign).
Interesting that Paul, who is proclaiming the good news about salvation, tells about this one being handed to Satan. This could instil fear of total rejection; or could explain that Satan uses the law to inflict guilt.
To be convinced of the need for a saviour we need to comprehend all the ramifications of the law, plus the inability to personally pay the price in full before a superior being- God, our Father.
Satan can heap up all the failures to fulfil those requirements which the sacrifices demand. Which can increase depression and the need for repentance.
I.M.O this seems to be why Paul talks about spiritual warfare in Ephesians 6. Emphasises the need for a saviour.
Another observation about being handed over to Satan, to me, highlights that this must be seen as a temporary position, not permanent.
I.M.O link this with the 1 Cor 3;14,15 " If the work that someone has built on it remains, he will receive an award. If someone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; however he himself will be saved BUT ONLY AS THROUGH FIRE."
Part of the purification as we grow in grace and knowledge so as to fully appreciate the work of Christ as our character is developed by the wisdom of God instead of the wisdom of man.
I think Paul is simply saying that this person is to be put out of fellowship until he repents. There are sins that cannot be tolerated within the house of God. Jesus instituted a process for serious sins. First the person is addressed(in a spirit of meekness) alone. Then the person is addressed by two or three(still in a spirit f meekness). Then the person is taken before the whole church.
In each of these steps it is about restoration. If all of these steps fail, then the person "falls out of the heavens" so to speak. Losing the protection of the tabernacle.
I know this will rile some folks up, but let me say this.
Ultimate reconciliation does not mean tolerance of sin. It means all will be brought into the life of God in Christ. That in turn means all will repent from sin and embrace righteousness.
I am not talking about smoking or drinking or other sins not unto death. Paul's words were written about a son having sex with his father's wife. Adultery, witchcraft, violence, abuse, pedophilia.... these kinds of are not tolerable and can result in the loss of salvation- to the extent that salvation equates to fellowship with God, abiding in the vine, and deliverance from the correction to come.
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
Quote from: sheila on February 16, 2016, 08:02:03 PM
when we repeatedly prefer to entertain the messengers of satan..over the Holy spirit..and grieve the Holy spirit to such an extent..
then God may hand us over..to satan and the evil..and our lives are quickly wrecked..for they have no mercy.......outside the fold
of protection of the shepherd the evil one enjoys the displaying of his malice against you[see Job's expierence]and other men...
example's of such ones in the world are such as the Jeffrey Dahmers,and John wayne Gaceys etc.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: eaglesway on February 17, 2016, 02:59:46 AM
I think Paul is simply saying that this person is to be put out of fellowship until he repents. There are sins that cannot be tolerated within the house of God. Jesus instituted a process for serious sins. First the person is addressed(in a spirit of meekness) alone. Then the person is addressed by two or three(still in a spirit f meekness). Then the person is taken before the whole church.
In each of these steps it is about restoration. If all of these steps fail, then the person "falls out of the heavens" so to speak. Losing the protection of the tabernacle.
I know this will rile some folks up, but let me say this.
Ultimate reconciliation does not mean tolerance of sin. It means all will be brought into the life of God in Christ. That in turn means all will repent from sin and embrace righteousness.
I am not talking about smoking or drinking or other sins not unto death. Paul's words were written about a son having sex with his father's wife. Adultery, witchcraft, violence, abuse, pedophilia.... these kinds of are not tolerable and can result in the loss of salvation- to the extent that salvation equates to fellowship with God, abiding in the vine, and deliverance from the correction to come.
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
:thumbsup:
Good stuff by all actually. It also gave me great comfort to know that Satan isn't an almost-equal in a fight against God. God is in full control. I always got the uncomfortable feeling in church that Satan was winning the fight, but to see him so used in this way reminds me that God's wisdom prevails and he is in control.
Quote from: Seth on February 17, 2016, 07:31:39 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on February 17, 2016, 02:59:46 AM
I think Paul is simply saying that this person is to be put out of fellowship until he repents. There are sins that cannot be tolerated within the house of God. Jesus instituted a process for serious sins. First the person is addressed(in a spirit of meekness) alone. Then the person is addressed by two or three(still in a spirit f meekness). Then the person is taken before the whole church.
In each of these steps it is about restoration. If all of these steps fail, then the person "falls out of the heavens" so to speak. Losing the protection of the tabernacle.
I know this will rile some folks up, but let me say this.
Ultimate reconciliation does not mean tolerance of sin. It means all will be brought into the life of God in Christ. That in turn means all will repent from sin and embrace righteousness.
I am not talking about smoking or drinking or other sins not unto death. Paul's words were written about a son having sex with his father's wife. Adultery, witchcraft, violence, abuse, pedophilia.... these kinds of are not tolerable and can result in the loss of salvation- to the extent that salvation equates to fellowship with God, abiding in the vine, and deliverance from the correction to come.
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
:thumbsup:
Good stuff by all actually. It also gave me great comfort to know that Satan isn't an almost-equal in a fight against God. God is in full control. I always got the uncomfortable feeling in church that Satan was winning the fight, but to see him so used in this way reminds me that God's wisdom prevails and he is in control.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: eaglesway on February 17, 2016, 02:59:46 AM
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
agreed... :iagree: aionion correction will be truly terrible for the most reprobate of unrepentant sinners till they finally yield
Quote from: eaglesway on February 17, 2016, 02:59:46 AM
I think Paul is simply saying that this person is to be put out of fellowship until he repents. There are sins that cannot be tolerated within the house of God. Jesus instituted a process for serious sins. First the person is addressed(in a spirit of meekness) alone. Then the person is addressed by two or three(still in a spirit f meekness). Then the person is taken before the whole church.
In each of these steps it is about restoration. If all of these steps fail, then the person "falls out of the heavens" so to speak. Losing the protection of the tabernacle.
I know this will rile some folks up, but let me say this.
Ultimate reconciliation does not mean tolerance of sin. It means all will be brought into the life of God in Christ. That in turn means all will repent from sin and embrace righteousness.
I am not talking about smoking or drinking or other sins not unto death. Paul's words were written about a son having sex with his father's wife. Adultery, witchcraft, violence, abuse, pedophilia.... these kinds of are not tolerable and can result in the loss of salvation- to the extent that salvation equates to fellowship with God, abiding in the vine, and deliverance from the correction to come.
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
:cloud9: :thumbsup: :iagree:
Lev_18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
Lev_20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Deu_22:30 A man shall not take his father's wife, nor discover his father's skirt.
Deu_27:20 Cursed be he that lieth with his father's wife; because he uncovereth his father's skirt. And all the people shall say, Amen.
:2thumbs:
:HeartThrob:
Gen 9 21He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent.
22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside.
23But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it upon both their shoulders and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were turned away, so that they did not see their father's nakedness....
.
Proverbs 30:17
"The eye that mocks a father, that scorns an aged mother, will be pecked out by the ravens of the valley, will be eaten by the vultures.
Habakkuk 2:15
"Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbors, pouring it from the wineskin till they are drunk, so that he can gaze on their naked bodies!
Love/ the blood of Jesus Christ covers a multitude of sin... we are to love one another and NOT using the law of sin and death to expose nakedness , leaving us spiritually drunk and reliving in violence , and they are the least in the Kingdom of God , but to pray for one another soberly and somberly for salvation and healing that they will be turned around from the broad path that is destruction to the narrow on that leads to LIFE IN CHRIST OUR COVERING for nakedness , As Paul and Peter shared with us in the scriptures , Hope that those learn righteousness though correction , realizing the battle and does not want to ever go though it again
1 Peter 4 Living for God's Glory :HeartThrob:
...7The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
8Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 9Be hospitable to one another without complaint....
Thank you all for the thoughtful replies. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: eaglesway on February 17, 2016, 02:59:46 AM
I think Paul is simply saying that this person is to be put out of fellowship until he repents. There are sins that cannot be tolerated within the house of God. Jesus instituted a process for serious sins. First the person is addressed(in a spirit of meekness) alone. Then the person is addressed by two or three(still in a spirit f meekness). Then the person is taken before the whole church.
In each of these steps it is about restoration. If all of these steps fail, then the person "falls out of the heavens" so to speak. Losing the protection of the tabernacle.
I know this will rile some folks up, but let me say this.
Ultimate reconciliation does not mean tolerance of sin. It means all will be brought into the life of God in Christ. That in turn means all will repent from sin and embrace righteousness.
I am not talking about smoking or drinking or other sins not unto death. Paul's words were written about a son having sex with his father's wife. Adultery, witchcraft, violence, abuse, pedophilia.... these kinds of are not tolerable and can result in the loss of salvation- to the extent that salvation equates to fellowship with God, abiding in the vine, and deliverance from the correction to come.
Such a person is delivered over to intense correction now in hopes that they will repent before they must endure a more intense correction in the age to come.
:2c:
Quote from: Eduard on February 16, 2016, 04:18:17 PM
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But [f]actually, I wrote to you not to associate [g]with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God [h]judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. (NASB)
Now, that's very important to know for believers that we are not to associate with immoral people that are believers even. But there is one part that puzzles me:
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
We know also from Paul's epistles that "flesh" usually means a man's carnal nature, wordly desires, and it is also known that the Spirit gives life, and peace. But still, what does this mean ? How was that man delivered to Satan for that purpose ?
Thoughts?
Hard stuff to swallow, for me. Not that I don't try to walk the straight and narrow, but I grew up in a family that was very condemning and unforgiving. Anger and people's whims ruled over love and understanding. And, though I always tempered that in myself, I was not the person growing up that I am now. The thought that Love should rule our hearts and minds did not exist in my family, for the most part, and was systematically discouraged and discarded. Thank goodness for my Catholic School upbringing, for teaching me that Love and Kindness were, in fact, important and what God wanted from us.
So, in a way, I need to take a look back, and see that perhaps I have come just a bit too far, and need to remember that there needs to be repentance and reconciliation. Not that I don't promote it, but I do not like to leave those behind who are not yet ready to see the errors of their ways. I had learned to forgive my family for what had transpired......many of them would be people that might need to be brought before the church, for their lifestyles and lack of repentance. So, for me, it becomes a very personal and difficult thing.
I am still not quite sure how this should play out, if I had to visualize it, as it unfolded. But, I know that it is an aspect of our faith.
So, I need to include this discernment in my list of things to pray for, I suppose. And, how to find God's will for myself, and those he puts in my path, on this very challenging topic.
D. :Pray: :dbook:
You might want to keep in mind, as you think on these things, that these words by Paul are written for the community of believers in Christ, related to conduct among believers in a Spirit-filled church where God was making His presence known.
We cannot apply the judgments of God in the same way to unbelievers, even our families among whom some of us were raised in the midst of ungodliness..
While it is good to know that God looks upon such things with understanding and forgiveness, knowing the sources of these dysfunctions in the generations of our lives, I think it is also good to know that He will hold people accountable for their works, and does require acknowledgment and repentance as a part of the process.
This is the "bow the knee part" of the salvation of all. Confessing Jesus as Lord, to me, means Jesus has become Lord of my heart- not just acknowledging Jesus as the Lord of all- even the devils know that already, and they are still devils.
Everyone will come face to face with the one who has a two edged sword coming out of Hos mouth, whse eyes are as flames of fire, and whose face is like the sun shining in its strength. Every heart will be broken and contrite before Him . IMO it is the revelation of His love AND righteousness that will set all creation free, as Peter said,
13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
Yes, EW, that is pretty much how I do see it.
So, you are saying it's okay for me to be there, knowing that they must change their hearts, and no earthly procedures, preaching,talking or examples are necessarily going to bring them where they need to be. Which, of course, I knew. I guess I was thinking about it in terms of more I should have done or could have done. Many of them have left this world, already, and have met God, face to face.
It gives me comfort that one day we will all be singing praise to God, together.
I always pray for my family, give them my unconditional love, and try/pray to be a good example.
Thank you, so much. That helped a lot.
D. :gsmile:
Amen, Eaglesway! :iagree: :cloud9:
Very nice thoughts on this.
Although there is an isolation that takes place with this form of discipline, there is also still a salve (of admonishment) to be applied, as Paul also said:
And if a man disobeys these words in this letter, let this one be separated from you, neither take part with him, that he may be ashamed, And do not hold him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
(2Th 3:14-15)
This is very much about not being with the brother or sister in any way that gives them fuel to think they have no need to turn from their sin, not total abandonment...very similar to how Father treated his beloved children of Israel in the past.
Ronen
Quote from: eaglesway on February 20, 2016, 06:25:03 PM
While it is good to know that God looks upon such things with understanding and forgiveness, knowing the sources of these dysfunctions in the generations of our lives, I think it is also good to know that He will hold people accountable for their works, and does require acknowledgment and repentance as a part of the process.
This is the "bow the knee part" of the salvation of all. Confessing Jesus as Lord, to me, means Jesus has become Lord of my heart- not just acknowledging Jesus as the Lord of all- even the devils know that already, and they are still devils.
Everyone will come face to face with the one who has a two edged sword coming out of Hos mouth, whse eyes are as flames of fire, and whose face is like the sun shining in its strength. Every heart will be broken and contrite before Him . IMO it is the revelation of His love AND righteousness that will set all creation free, as Peter said,
agreed..there'll be no 'get out of jail free card'...the Lord is thrice holy...He does not excuse sin..nay, He will judge all sin with indignation wrath and fury...
reprobate unbelievers and all haters of Christ will have a terrible ordeal to go through in the Lake of Fire..they will suffer excruciating anguish and pain in the process of finally turning to Christ..their chastizing may well last for 'the ages of the ages'..they will not be saved IN their sin...
their SIN will suffer fiery wrath and indignation from a Holy God.
and yes, they will suffer some kind of eternal loss..
but ultimately, their spirit will be saved.
...smh..regarding the free gift of Grace and undeserved kindness and mercy of God..and His Christ whom opens blind eyes and
sets prisoners free..and whom takes away all their sins..even the sins of the whole world...I can't help but disagree with the
above scenario.
..are we serving a 'watered down' form of eternal torment here? Beginning to sound like it.smh don't you know Him by now?
...and they will know me..when I have forgiven all their sins.
I think we all are going to be surprised a little at the end because none of us know all of the truth.
CHB
:thumbsup: man is stingy yet, in the grace's and benevolence and kind intentions of God's heart. God has said 'I have seen the way
he takes,but I will heal him."
Luke ch 16 parable of the unjust steward accused of 'wasting' His goods.
:cloud9: All men will be saved, are being saved, and shall be saved. The only difference in the final result will be that of what reward they have. My :2c: