What is Babylon the Great?

[Jason76]

What is it?  Where is it?

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Many believe it is America

[Seth]

I believe on the deepest spiritual level it represents slavery to sin, to the elements of the world.

[Molly]

You may be watching it happen right before your eyes.


3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality." 4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; 5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities...

--Revelation 18




some Iraqi Christians, returning to homeland is not an option

By Doreen Abi Raad
Catholic News Service

BEIRUT (CNS) -- Uprooted from his home in Iraq by the advance of Islamic State fighters, Nouree sees no future for Christians in his country.

"It's like a nightmare," the Chaldean Catholic father of six told Catholic News from a modest apartment in Beirut where he and his family have temporarily resettled after fleeing Iraq. "They just came and took our villages," Nouree said of the militants.

Nouree requested that his full name not be used to protect his identity.

"It's not a coincidence. It's like a plan to rid the region of Christians. We Christians paid the price, and the Yezidis (the minority religious community) did, too," Nouree said. "Even though they pushed us out, we won't forget our homeland. This is our past, our history."

His village, Tel Isqof, about 19 miles north of Mosul, was home to some 1,500 Christian families, all of whom fled the advance of the Islamic State fighters in early August.

For nearly two months, following the militants' attack on Mosul in June, Nouree and his family slept on the roof of their house to watch for flashing lights of artillery shelling, signaling such an advance because there were constant rumors that the fighters were coming toward their village.

"We were always on alert. We thought that at least if there was an attack, we could see it coming and evacuate, to save ourselves," Nouree said.

But when the militants invaded Tel Isqof, Nouree said, the Kurdish regional forces, known as peshmerga, withdrew, leaving the villagers unprotected as they fled to Irbil, the capital of the Kurdish region of Iraq. Irbil now hosts more than 100,000 displaced Christians and other Iraqi minorities.

"We have no trust," Nouree said. "There is no credibility, in the government, (in) the Kurdistan forces -- even some clergy are leaving."

In Kurdistan, he added, Christians are considered second-class citizens. He spoke of Cardinal Fernando Filoni's Aug. 13-20 visit to Iraq as Pope Francis' envoy and said the Kurdistan government is only trying to please the church with empty promises.

"Whatever the Kurdistan government promised him (Cardinal Filoni) will be only words," he said.

Michel Kasdano, a third-generation Iraqi Chaldean in Lebanon who volunteers his time to help Iraqi refugees, also has observed the same mindset among the refugees he meets: They do not want to return to Iraq and, their relatives remaining in Iraq want to leave.

A retired general with the Lebanese army, Kasdano has mobilized a group of friends and relatives who have met with some 50 Christian Iraqi families, now refugees in Lebanon as a result of the Islamic State attacks in their homeland. Aside from listening to the tragic stories of the refugees, they distribute food, clothes and money to the families.

"In my opinion, there will be just a symbolic presence of Christians in Iraq, like a museum," he told CNS.

It was clear 10 years ago that Christians were leaving Iraq, he said, not just because of threats, but "because there was no support, they saw no future."

"There has been no concrete movement from the church, the international community or government authorities to anchor them there," he said. "Despite pessimism, I still have my faith, and I still believe Christianity must remain in Iraq."

The future is unclear for Nouree and his family, but his priority is to get resettled in another country.

In Beirut, he registered his family with the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees and was issued an asylum-seeker certificate. His next appointment is scheduled for March 2015.

At that first visit to the UNHCR, Nouree got an indication of the frustration and despair faced by other refugees.

"I saw a young man, depressed and screaming, because he's been here so long," he said.

Even before this summer's mass exodus of Iraqi Christians, there were about 9,000 Iraqi refugees in Lebanon, most of whom fled their homeland after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. Lebanon has also experienced a flood of more than 1.5 million Syrian refugees, equal to at least one-quarter of Lebanon's resident population.

"I'm open to do any kind of work to support my family," Nouree said. But the 45-year-old biology teacher has not found any work in Lebanon, and competition is fierce among other refugees, many of whom typically work as laborers for $20 a day.

"My children are my hope -- to go to school and be educated and to live in a democratic environment," Nouree said.
.....

"We at Caritas Lebanon provide health care, food and prime necessities," Father Karam said. "However we are saddened by the fact that almost all of them (Iraqi refugees) have no intention of returning to their country: Their desire is to emigrate, to leave the Middle East for ever. Sad to say this is the situation. And also on this issue the international community is called to make sensible decisions, unless it wants to contribute with its policies, to the extinction of Christians in Iraq," Father Karam said.


http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1403734.htm




...5and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." 6And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. When I saw her, I wondered greatly.

--Revelation 17

[WhiteWings]

Many believe it is America

Or RCC which has many Babylonic rituals and designs.

[Lazarus Short]

In the times the New Testament was written, Babylon was still a city, its final state as an archaeological site still future.  Today, it is a book, the Babylonian Talmud, and [ :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:] Mystery Babylon is the political, economic, financial, and religious system built around it.

[Molly]

Look for the one who is drinking--getting drunk on-- the blood of God's holy people.

It is full of the name of blasphemy having 7 heads and 10 horns.


And, on her forehead is written MYSTERY BABYLON.   It is a religion, a group of initiates.

"MYSTERY"

G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.


MOTHER OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. [Rev 17]


The Abomination of Desolation

14"But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 15"The one who is on the housetop must not go down, or go in to get anything out of his house;...

--Mark 13



The Destruction of Jerusalem

20"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21"Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;

--Luke 21

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:    Give her double  rev 18

  REV 16

...5And I heard the angel of the waters saying, "Righteous are You, who are and who were, O Holy One, because You judged these things;



6for they poured out the blood of saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink. They deserve it."

7 And I heard the altar saying, "Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments."



...5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities


. 6"Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds;

in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.


7"To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning;


for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Many believe it is America

Or RCC which has many Babylonic rituals and designs.

It can't be the RCC because the book of Revelation mentions that Babylon is a place where merchants go to for merchandise. As far as I know, the RCC doesn't have much to do with merchandise but America does.

[Seth]

But I think they do have a food court in Riverside City College, so maybe the RCC is Babylon and also America.

[WhiteWings]

Many believe it is America

Or RCC which has many Babylonic rituals and designs.

It can't be the RCC because the book of Revelation mentions that Babylon is a place where merchants go to for merchandise. As far as I know, the RCC doesn't have much to do with merchandise but America does.

The merchadise can be teaching.
People spreading religious words are sometimes pictured as ships sailing on water

[Molly]

Clue: It's in the desert.


Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,  2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication."

3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness.


"wilderness"

G2048
ἔρημος
erēmos
er'-ay-mos
Of uncertain affinity; lonesome, that is, (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, G5561 being implied): - desert, desolate, solitary, wilderness.



5 And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

--Revelation 17


I saw Lawrence of Arabia recently.  Great movie.  Lots of sand.

[sheila]

I have to admit,until recently I had not considered the comand 'to come out of her my people' to be a literal land of Babylon..to

literal christian churches dwelling there.  Sarh's arch-rival of inheritance was Hagar..she become haughty and arrogant when

  she bore Abraham a natural flesh child.  Sarh told Abraham to throw her and her son out.......God said,'listen to Sarah'

    oil trade is really big in the market..bought a lot of riches........there are 3 things even four that the earth can not bear........

    a maid that usurps her mistress..........

   I see a natural fulfillment...and a spiritual fulfillment....she says I will never be a widow[or divorced of God] she thinks she is God's

wife[Ishmael as heir]..more are the children of the desolate one..than she who has a husband.

  wickedness is a woman ..carried on stork wings to the land of Shinar/Babylonia..a place prepared for her...

  fornicate with the Kings of the earth...three kings of the east..euphrates dried up...Iraq,Syria and Turkey[turkey is North ofIsrael]


    Jerusalem above is our Mother typified by Sarh..the free woman..her arch-rival in the natural was Hagar the Egyptian..

  Sodom and Egypt? two wittnesses killed..................

   just things to ponder and examine...spiritually free woman and woman in bondage..natural flesh..and promised seed..

[Seth]

Ok, my turn for confession time. What makes me sick is when discussions on Revelation turn into finger pointing: Obama is the anti-Christ, Roman Catholics are Babylon, and so on. So MUCH finger pointing, but they often say when you point the finger at someone else, you got three pointing back at you. What I don't like is how in the Christian world, they are looking at these political figures, countries and systems with accusation rather than love. Not saying that people here are lacking love, but I do see that among the Hal Lindsay's of the world, condemning the Russians and now the Muslims.

How you would you like it for someone to call YOU the anti Christ?

[Seth]

I admit my former experience in ET land probably affects my reaction, but I can't help but get nauseated with all this impugning of very real people based on guesses and musings of a very complex book of symbols that nobody in Christianity can quite agree on anyway. Nevermind, I'll shut up now.

My point is that until the race is run, and crowns are won, I could be Babylon, and some of YOU could be Babylon.

[sheila]

 :laugh:  how long youbeen waiting to do that?  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Seth]

 :LH:

Things occur to a guy.

Anyway, my reading of Revelation is that "come out of her my people" is a reference to people sharing in Babylon's sins and God is calling us out to not receive of her plagues: death, mourning and famine. On the contrary the church are told to rejoice in every trial. There is no threat on faithful believers to receive plagues because of where they physically reside. If all believers leave Iraq, how will the gospel be preached? Death, famine, and mourning are warnings for those sharing in plagues, not for those translated into the Kingdom through faith. Just my own take on it.

1 Thess 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

[sheila]

that's alright.. :friendstu: everybody has there own take on it..and until we see how all of it is fulfilled we will 'think things"...

[WhiteWings]

Ok, my turn for confession time. What makes me sick is when discussions on Revelation turn into finger pointing: Obama is the anti-Christ, Roman Catholics are Babylon, and so on.
......
How you would you like it for someone to call YOU the anti Christ?

I admit my former experience in ET land probably affects my reaction

And just one post later you point fingers at ETs.
In fact in EVERY post you disagree with someone you are pointing fingers to someone. That simply the way it is. And I  may add the way the Bible orders us to do.
The Bible orders us not to team up with evil doers. But to obey that command we have to figure out who the evil doers are. The very moment you say "that's an evil doer" you are pointing fingers.
When you are discerning the truth you point to the truth. And while discerning the truth you often will find cases of untruth. And then you point fingers again.

Frankly speaking, I think the real reason that mentioning RCC, Obama, etc makes you sick is because you don't agree with that view. So your reaction is saying it makes you sick, which is finger pointing.

That sort of approach makes many parts of the Bible useless/impossible to apply in real life because it is always finger pointing.

Just read Psalms. David is pointing fingers all the time. He constantly speaks of enemies, evildoers against Yahweh and against himself. Not just single persons but also whole armies and nations.

:2c:

[Molly]

I have to admit,until recently I had not considered the comand 'to come out of her my people' to be a literal land of Babylon..to

literal christian churches dwelling there.  Sarh's arch-rival of inheritance was Hagar..she become haughty and arrogant when

  she bore Abraham a natural flesh child.  Sarh told Abraham to throw her and her son out.......God said,'listen to Sarah'

    oil trade is really big in the market..bought a lot of riches........there are 3 things even four that the earth can not bear........

    a maid that usurps her mistress..........

   I see a natural fulfillment...and a spiritual fulfillment....she says I will never be a widow[or divorced of God] she thinks she is God's

wife[Ishmael as heir]..more are the children of the desolate one..than she who has a husband.

  wickedness is a woman ..carried on stork wings to the land of Shinar/Babylonia..a place prepared for her...

  fornicate with the Kings of the earth...three kings of the east..euphrates dried up...Iraq,Syria and Turkey[turkey is North ofIsrael]


    Jerusalem above is our Mother typified by Sarh..the free woman..her arch-rival in the natural was Hagar the Egyptian..

  Sodom and Egypt? two wittnesses killed..................

   just things to ponder and examine...spiritually free woman and woman in bondage..natural flesh..and promised seed..

wow--Excellent, Sheila!   I realized recently that the two witnesses will be preaching to the Muslims who will trample Jerusalem for
3.5 years, during the great Tribulation, which is also the time of Jacob's trouble.  The witnesses will be supernaturally protected, and, also, this explains why the whole world [Islam] rejoices when they die.

[Molly]

:LH:

Things occur to a guy.

Anyway, my reading of Revelation is that "come out of her my people" is a reference to people sharing in Babylon's sins and God is calling us out to not receive of her plagues: death, mourning and famine. On the contrary the church are told to rejoice in every trial. There is no threat on faithful believers to receive plagues because of where they physically reside. If all believers leave Iraq, how will the gospel be preached? Death, famine, and mourning are warnings for those sharing in plagues, not for those translated into the Kingdom through faith. Just my own take on it.

1 Thess 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

I think it can be read on a purely spiritual level, and a lot of people do that.  Some say that is the only way it should be read.

If all believers leave Iraq [they are], how will the gospel be preached?  It is the end of the Age, the time of the Gentiles is almost fulfilled.  In other words, time's up!

:2c:



28"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 29"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

--Mark 13

[rosered]

I have to admit,until recently I had not considered the comand 'to come out of her my people' to be a literal land of Babylon..to

literal christian churches dwelling there.  Sarh's arch-rival of inheritance was Hagar..she become haughty and arrogant when

  she bore Abraham a natural flesh child.  Sarh told Abraham to throw her and her son out.......God said,'listen to Sarah'

    oil trade is really big in the market..bought a lot of riches........there are 3 things even four that the earth can not bear........

    a maid that usurps her mistress..........

   I see a natural fulfillment...and a spiritual fulfillment....she says I will never be a widow[or divorced of God] she thinks she is God's

wife[Ishmael as heir]..more are the children of the desolate one..than she who has a husband.

  wickedness is a woman ..carried on stork wings to the land of Shinar/Babylonia..a place prepared for her...

  fornicate with the Kings of the earth...three kings of the east..euphrates dried up...Iraq,Syria and Turkey[turkey is North ofIsrael]


    Jerusalem above is our Mother typified by Sarh..the free woman..her arch-rival in the natural was Hagar the Egyptian..

  Sodom and Egypt? two wittnesses killed..................

   just things to ponder and examine...spiritually free woman and woman in bondage..natural flesh..and promised seed..

wow--Excellent, Sheila!   I realized recently that the two witnesses will be preaching to the Muslims who will trample Jerusalem for
3.5 years, during the great Tribulation, which is also the time of Jacob's trouble.  The witnesses will be supernaturally protected, and, also, this explains why the whole world [Islam] rejoices when they die.

  Yes they are devouring one another  , just as the Lord of Hosts warns   NOT TO DO
  Yet  we have  seen this example    for many generations and now have  become    ''lukewarm or indifferent to it ''     knowings it is  a sign  post   of prophecy  being fulfilled

  of Isaiah 9       and Rev 9   , noted both are Chapters   9   

How the  only way  to know the truth IS to have the false  fall and fail  and end

  Isaiah  9 with the sting in the tail  , being the false prophets  as liars   and the people were fuel for the fire



15 The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.

16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.

17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

18 For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.

19 Through the wrath of the Lord of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother.

 

After reading Rev   9   sting of death in the tail  is lies and   death of the king being the destroyer . 3 Then out of the smoke came locusts [c]upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And [d]they were not permitted to kill [e]anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it [f]stings a man. 6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them.

7 The [g]appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads appeared to be crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were like the teeth of lions. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle.


10 They have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months. 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is [h]Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.

12 The first woe is past; behold, two woes are still coming after these things.

  devouring one another    seems to be the same thing  Shelia showed the natural  Ishmales   sons of man
  and attacking   the Issac 's  spiritual   sons of God     



13You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh 

; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."b 15If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whateverc you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

[Seth]

Ok, my turn for confession time. What makes me sick is when discussions on Revelation turn into finger pointing: Obama is the anti-Christ, Roman Catholics are Babylon, and so on.
......
How you would you like it for someone to call YOU the anti Christ?

I admit my former experience in ET land probably affects my reaction

And just one post later you point fingers at ETs.
In fact in EVERY post you disagree with someone you are pointing fingers to someone. That simply the way it is. And I  may add the way the Bible orders us to do.
The Bible orders us not to team up with evil doers. But to obey that command we have to figure out who the evil doers are. The very moment you say "that's an evil doer" you are pointing fingers.
When you are discerning the truth you point to the truth. And while discerning the truth you often will find cases of untruth. And then you point fingers again.

Frankly speaking, I think the real reason that mentioning RCC, Obama, etc makes you sick is because you don't agree with that view. So your reaction is saying it makes you sick, which is finger pointing.

That sort of approach makes many parts of the Bible useless/impossible to apply in real life because it is always finger pointing.

Just read Psalms. David is pointing fingers all the time. He constantly speaks of enemies, evildoers against Yahweh and against himself. Not just single persons but also whole armies and nations.

:2c:

I never pointed to ET to say that they are Babylon or the beast. Why don't you actually read what I said?

[Lazarus Short]

Looks like this thread is Babeling itself.  :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth:

[rosered]

Looks like this thread is Babeling itself.  :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth:

   are we throwing bricks   baked in the fire  as stones   at one another  :BangHead:   ??    Genesis 11:1-9New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Universal Language, Babel, Confusion 


11 Now the whole earth used the same language and the same words. 2 It came about as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar and settled there.


3 They said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and burn them thoroughly." And they used brick for stone, and they used tar for mortar.



4 They said, "Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be

scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."


5 The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.


6 The Lord said, "Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.


7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another's speech."



8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.


9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of the whole earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad

over the face of the whole earth.

  I find this amazing in the sense of this ,   God said    in the same unity of language   and SAME SPIRIT      that nothing would be impossible for them

   and  we read Paul saying  TILL we  have to come to the same unity in CHRIST       for the impossible     to be possible !
   wow    with man noting is possible but with God all things are possible       

Divisions  not possible
  Unity  possible 

God  in His Wisdom    wow!!    what a plan  :2c: