Sky receding like a scroll

[Doug]

So, I believe that the trumpets, the bowls, the vision of the two witnesses, the vision of the sun clothed woman and the dragon, and the vision of the towering messenger are all parallel(simultaneously occurring timelines...stories happening alongside and with each other). They are also age-during realities that consummate at the second coming and glorious appearing of Jesus.

At the "last trumpet" (7th) the mystery of God is finished. Why? No More Mystery. Christ in you the hope of glory is declared to the entire universe by the resurrection of those who are "His at his appearing" - the revelation of the sons of God. The open authority of Jesus Christ and the kingdom of priests restoring the creation from futility and ushering in the just(meted out in measure as deserved) punishments of God begins. The restitution of all things will be the openly declared will and work of God, as all the enemies are being made subject to His feet by the rod of iron.

The 7th bowl is introduced with the words, "Behold I come as a thief" and the words "It is done"(It hath come! YLT)

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Why would Christ warn us about "keeping our garments"? Especially in this context of the battle of Armageddon?

Obviously, the "garments" mentioned here are not literal garments, but symbolic, and represent the righteousness and truth that comes from Christ. Paul spoke of "having your loins girt about with truth." If we defend false theories and interpretations, we may end up on the wrong side! That is what the battle of Armageddon is about. It is a spiritual struggle. Armageddon is mentioned in the very next verse.

Clothes are also what Christ refers to in Mat. 24:17-18. Evidently, the battle of Armageddon is about clothes! Are we going to go down to our house to get our old clothes, or receive new ones from Christ?

Doug

[eaglesway]

Doug, mostly, I agree with you. If you read my earlier posts in the thread, you will see that I have been saying that we are "in the day" and we must "walk in the light as children of the day". Yet, many of these prophecies are eternally true in "heaven" but also significant in time- not all, but some. To ignore the in time relevance of prophecy almost denies the prophecies of the old testament and their being symbolis AND historical prophecy. Obviously the revelation of John was not written for the saints of the last generation alone but for all the children of the day in this age. However, understanding the seals and the trumpets and the bowls is about the construction of the prophetic scroll and its revelation. In the apocalypse of God there is the "was, the is and the will be" which are like wheels within wheels in understanding. There are prophecies in the old testament that look through the current event straight throu the revelation of Christ and on to the end of the ages in a matter of a few verses. Always in every "Now" there is a "Today, if you hear My voice" revelation that grants access to His rest, the finished work. The finished work in our generation is "to be and to do" what His voice is saying. (Let Him who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit IS SAYING to the churches). There are literal and historic aspects of the gospel to be fulfilled in the outworking of the ages which Paul calls in Ephesians THE ADMINISTRATION OF thE FULNESS OF TIMES. To deny the connection between the ages and the progressive revelation of the mystery - "His kind intention which He purposed in Himself"- is not revelation, it is a failure to understand several key aspects of the revelation of God which is in eternity/ainios and also in earth forming the purposes of EACH UNFOLDING GENERATION. The fact of whether you think the day is historicly connected to certain scientific discoveries in the 1700s and I think it is historicly connected to a wider spiritual event- well thats a difference we probably won't agree on.  :dontknow:
                                                                                         Peace in Jesus

Example, In every generation the Bride is coming down out of heaven. In every generation the "one new man" stands, feet on the land and the sea, Scroll of the eternal good news in hand, clothed with the clouds (surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses), a rainbow surrounding the "head" in heaven. In every generation the woman(mature Bride) clothed with the sun(Christ in you the hope of glory) is birthing a manchild(till we all attain to the unity of the faith unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ) as the dragon sends out a flood (tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine,craftiness of men in deceitful scheming) to consume her "seed" (overcomers) who destroy the works of the devil, and are caught up to His throne (seated with Christ in the heavenly realms above all principality and power). I happen to believe at the end of this age there will be an open fulfillment of these prophecies as the body rises to meet the Lord at the "DAY" which will be consummated in history, even as Jesus was "foreknown from the foundation of the world but manifest in these last times for you."
As the dawn was born in a manger in Bethlehem and shone from a cross outside Jerusalem and was raised from the dead on the THIRD DAY. I believe the full noon will shine at the end of this age. This in no way limits the importance of the message of "being clothed", because as you said, the day will come upon those who sleep in the darkness and take them unaware. In the unfolding moment of God called "Now", in the unfolding Day called "Today, on the day when the reaper catches unaware(no man knows the day of his demise), or on the day (if we are awake in the day) when we shall receive the balance on the pledge of our inheritance, the redemption of our bodies and the revelation of the sons of God.

[Doug]

In every generation the woman(mature Bride) clothed with the sun(Christ in you the hope of glory)

The woman in Rev. 12 is the church, and her location is in heaven, as the church consists of all the saints, who are represented by the stars. [Dan. 12:3]. Her crown of 12 stars represents the apostles, and also identifies her as the Israel of God. Paul said that believers "sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:4-6
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

In this prophecy, heaven and earth are symbolic; heaven is God's throne; [Isa. 66:1] earth represents the world. A third of the stars are drawn by the tail of the dragon, and cast to the earth; they represent those believers who abandon their faith, and return to the world. The sun which clothes the woman in heaven represents the gospel; the sun is called a great light in Genesis 1; the gospel of Jesus was also called a great light.

Matthew 4:16-17
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
   
Other prophecies that say the sun will be turned to darkness, before the day of the Lord [Joel 2:31; Acts 2:20] which pictures the gospel becoming obscured by false teaching. Early in the church's history, the pure gospel taught by the apostles was merged with pagan philosophy, and superstitions, such as the idea of unending infernal torment of unbelievers, which fulfilled the prophecy of Joel about the sun turning to darkness. Jesus said, when the "tares" are taken away at the end of the age, the saints will "shine forth as the sun."

Matthew 13:43
Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The role of the church is to be the light of the world, especially at the end of the age, which is a time of gloominess, and clouds, and darkness.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

is birthing a manchild(till we all attain to the unity of the faith unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ)

The male child of the woman in Rev. 12:5 is caught up to heaven, from where he rules all nations with a rod of iron. From Psalm 2, we can see that this male child is Christ.

Psalm 2:8-10
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Jesus said all power, in heaven and earth, had been given to him. [Mat. 28:18] Some dispute this, and say the church could not be "the mother of Jesus." J. N. Darby and his followers, for example, deny that the woman in Rev. 12 is the church. Instead, they claim the woman represents Israel after the flesh. In Gal. 4:24-27, there is a contrast between the earthly Jerusalem (represented by Hagar the bondwoman in Abraham's house, Sarah's handmaid) and the heavenly Jerusalem (represented by Sarah, the freewoman). The dispensationalists say that the church did not give birth to Christ. But Jesus himself identified those who "do the will of my Father which is in heaven" as his brethren, and his mother.

Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
   
The scripture shows the church is the spiritual "mother of us all." The saints are brethren of Jesus. We all have the same mother, the church.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

as the dragon sends out a flood (tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine,craftiness of men in deceitful scheming) to consume her "seed" (overcomers) who destroy the works of the devil, and are caught up to His throne (seated with Christ in the heavenly realms above all principality and power).

A torrent of conflicting interpretations of prophecy is spewed forth from the mouth of the serpent. Some of it is misinterpretation of this prophecy of the woman in heaven. The prophecy depicts Satan in heaven, but there is great spiritual warfare, and eventually he is cast out of heaven to the earth, and all his angels with him.

Doug