Tentmaker Forum

Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation => Book of Revelation => Topic started by: rosered on September 12, 2014, 03:15:03 PM

Title: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 12, 2014, 03:15:03 PM
 

Thinking about the short time  ,    in many of the scriptures especially in Revelation       

What does anyone else think of the ''short time'' and how does these    obscure     passages , come to Life  and  clarify more clearly comprehensible in the scriptures  ?

  Its some of the most  confusing  verses  when reading them  and have wondered for many years  and we only  know what the LORD gives us
  I was wondering what  the HOLY SPIRIT has given to some  others 
we wait on the Lord to make the  waters/ voices   crystal   clear [Hear Him ] 

   psalms   29 The voice of the LORD was heard above the waters; the God of glory thundered; the LORD was heard over many

  waters
  Rev 14 And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps   Rev 19And I heard a sound like that of many multitudes, and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty thunders saying, "Hallelujah! For THE LORD JEHOVAH God Almighty reigns!


When we can  be ONE in the Holy Spirit   as He gathers   up   those in Christ seated in heavenly places

  Rev 12


     7And there was war in Heaven: Michael and his Angels fighting with the Dragon; and the Dragon and its Angels fought 8And did not prevail, neither was a place found for them in Heaven.

9And the great Dragon was cast down, that Chief Serpent, which is called The Devil and Satan, which deceives all The Earth, and it was cast down unto The Earth and its Angels were cast down with it.

10And I heard a great voice from Heaven that said, "Now is the deliverance and the power and The Kingdom of our God, for The Accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them night and day before our God,"


11"And they were victorious by the blood of The Lamb and by the word of his testimony* and they did not love their lives unto death."


12"Therefore Heavens, celebrate, and those who dwell in them; woe to The Earth and to the Sea,

for The Devil, who has great fury, has descended to them, as he knows that he has little time."

13And when the Dragon saw that it had been cast down to The Earth, it persecuted the woman who had given birth to The Male. 14And two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman to fly into the wilderness to her place, to be sustained there for a time, times, and half a time, from before the face of The Serpent.


15And The Serpent cast water like a river out of its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be taken by the waters.

16And The Earth helped the woman, and The Earth opened its mouth and swallowed that river which the Dragon had cast from its mouth.

17And the Dragon raged against the woman and went to make war with the remnant of her Seed*, these who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua.

Hope to see     more by  using this  passage   first with the question ,
  Why does the  devil only have a  short time ?

I always wondered about this  and have  never had it really settled  yet to what  it is
  I know Jesus Christ   will cut it short in righteousness  and was wondering if that is not a good clue  ?

Looking into   Roman 9    19Doubtless you will say, "Why does he find fault, for who stands against his will?" 20Therefore, who are you, oh son of man, that you give a rebuttal to God? Does the thing formed say to the one who formed it, "Why have you made me this way?" 21Or is not a potter authorized over the clay to make some formed things from it, one vessel for honor and one for dishonor? 22But if God was willing to show his wrath and reveal his power, bringing wrath with a multitude of patience against vessels of wrath that were perfected for destruction, 23And his love overflowed on the vessels of compassion that were prepared by God for glory; 24For we are called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles.

25Just as it says also in Hosea: "I shall call those who were not my people, 'My people', and you who were not beloved, 'Beloved'.

26For it shall be in the place where they were called, 'Not my people', there they shall be called 'children of THE LIVING GOD.' "

27But Isaiah preached against the children of Israel: "If the number of the children of Israel is as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be saved." 28He has cut the matter short and has cut it off; THE LORD JEHOVAH shall do it upon The Earth.

29And as that which Isaiah said before: "If THE LORD JEHOVAH of Hosts* had not left survivors*, we would have been like Sadom and we would have been like Amorah.

  Do you see this as the prophecy  found in Daniel     as being the daily sacrifice  being cut off ?  in Daniel 9

I was   thinking of the flood  in Rev   the dragon   pours out of his mouth   and the earth swallows it up  , making    the woe to the earth and sea   , but the  works the Lord of Hosts finishes up  is in the Earth     and  we know the scriptures about  hell and the sea giving up the dead   , but its the earth    right now that is in question  as to a now thing 
I know many have said this already happened   with the desolation of Jerusalem in  70 ad      and I do see this as very significant    part of prophecy
But what if its   Like Paul said we  see first the natural and than the spiritual   significant  ?       I was  thinking of the   each in their own order    as time is short   our earthly bodies are only promised  70  years and 80 by grace      , Question   is        this war over the body      Is Gods judgments earth 6O seed of Abraham, His servant, O sons of Jacob, His chosen ones!  7He is the LORD our God; His judgments are in all the earth. 8He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations


...26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.


27"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

  This is a  choppy  post and  may be hard to   answer ,   the Lord has helped  so much   with just     sharing  what others understand and also wonder  , He does not fail    ,  so we ask    in faith
   But I have to go to the doctor   this morning  and   hope to   come back this after noon  God willing

Title: Re: Short time
Post by: sheila on September 12, 2014, 04:29:51 PM
  wheww!!!!   here's a start...I believe it is all boiled down to first Adam [sin in flesh]

  rejected..last Adam[Jesus Christ] chosen.

  therefore when I read the verses regarding many waters,and a voice  above the

  waters...and the voice I heard was like the sound of harpist playing on harps......

    I think of Saul[a head taller then most men[giant] as symbolizing natural Adam

  rejected of God[anointed king] and David as symbol of LastAdam[Jesus Christ]

     seeing waters as ' floods of good for nothing men surrounding me/false wittness"

    and water as dragon floods from mouth..of lies wanting to 'kill' you...that also

  torment the firsAdam with his destruction...to the extent that..it takes a David

   harping on his harp for relief from the torment.  David harping on his harp,to me

  is Jesus Christ word's of healing,forgiveness,truth and reconciliation..and that

no the natural carnal man first Adam does not please God and is rejected....but

the last Adam[a man after God's own heart] does.David was a man of war..and Jesus

  makes war in righteousness/greater David...surely the truth is music to our ears

and soothes the troubled soul of the first Adam.........

   David had his acussors as did Jesus Christ.......the branch of Jesses.

   Saul knew he had but little time..after all his replacement had already been anointed



      now concerning the number of men as the sands of the sea and only a remnant

  saved....the sands of the sea=first natural/carnal/sin entered Adam......and the

remnant saved  are those God chooses from the midst of carnal Adam to know

declare the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the new incorruptible image that all will

bear...the coming of their saviour. for example..Israel in the midst of many other

nations....a few among the any to declare God's purpose ......

  and today.....not many know and are in intimate relationship while dwelling in

the flesh on this earth. yet we know..in each his o rder all men shall be reconciled

  thus we become as a token in the earth now..of the fullness of salvation and

reconciliation of all men...and we wittness and tesify to this fact in the earth.


  Beloved/David....you who were not beloved...a first Adam sin rejected man

condemned..a Saul in the image of the corrupt...shall become a David...bear the image

of the incorrupt one after the death of his flesh[natural man]


   For he was cut off from the land of the living..and who will speak of his generation

and seed[God will provide wittness to/a token to the fullness that is rightfully due him]

  for he shall see the light of life and be satisfied....and justify many...

Title: Re: Short time
Post by: ed on September 12, 2014, 05:10:05 PM
Everything on earth is a short work.

Change comes quickly, suddenly and unexpectedly.

Revel in your times!

Title: Re: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 14, 2014, 07:00:05 PM


  Thanks Shelia and ed
    I did not have time to   ''go there'' , yet  :thumbsup:

  :icon_flower:
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 17, 2014, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: ed on September 12, 2014, 05:10:05 PM
Everything on earth is a short work.

Change comes quickly, suddenly and unexpectedly.

Revel in your times!


Yes  everything is a short time in the earth
  even satan      has a short time
    Helping me realize       that man   making a mess and   chaos  out of what God has given , 
  It is God whom will     straighten out all the  mess and chaos     in the end and He will have    been glorified     by all   knowing that   HE   represented in such a way as always  elevated & special  and we should have always been acknowledging  Him and thankful   just     Like He has always been   

Title: Re: Short time
Post by: marie glen on September 17, 2014, 08:36:08 PM
hello, Rosered, :gsmile:

I agree everything on earth is a 'short time'

Rev 12 , which you mentioned is, I believe, one complete history (one of three Bk of Rev inserts).. starting with Israel (the faith) who gives birth to the son of man, whom the dragon tries to devour via Herod, but He is lifted up to God's throne, and the dragon is enraged and razes Jerusalem in 70 a.d

then there's war in heaven but half the battle's been manifest as won, so the dragon&co no longer are allowed access to the heavens and he's reaLLy mad then so (approx 1230 a.d.) he persecutes/inquisitions the faith (now Christendom) but she is given the two wings of an eagle that she may fly (sail?) to a new place, but 3.5 divisions of time (centuries) later the beguiling guise/mode of the dragon vomits a flood (proliferation) after the faith in an attempt to wash her, the faith, off the face of the earth, but the earth will swallow the flood - drought? cross ref when Jesus said "if they will do this" (crucify me) "in a green leaf, what will they do in a dry?" (leaf) Luke 23:28,31

then the dragon turns his attention (back) to the rest of her offspring who have the commandments and (by now?) hold to the testimony of Jesus - cross ref = "jerusalem, jerusalem... you will not see me again until you say, blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD"

the flood the dragon vomits (1620?+350, in approx 1970) i believe was the proliferation of "pornos" a greek word.. (harlotry, and another topic, we/I can see how capitalism embraced pornos, and became the last harlot.. now going global.. enchanting and seducing all 7 hills/continents)

I believe that flood is a different flood from the wars til the end of Daniel chapter 9.


How long? & the daily sacrifice taken away

The last verses of /daniel i believe refer to very late days on the planet..

12:11,12 parpahrased - from the time the daily sacrifice (place of??) is taken away and the abomination (666?) is set up, will be 1,290 days which is three years and seven months (a hebrew leap year? which includes an additional 30 da month).. blessed is the one who waits and comes to day 1335 which is 45 days later..

leading me to ask what blessed/happy event occurs on day 45 of 666? and 1335 days after the (place of?) daily sacrifice (in Jerusalem) is taken away/removed?
- - cross reference Mt 24:1-2 "see all these?" (the temple complex) "I tell you not one stone shall remain upon another". Not one.

this seems to me a sure sign when or if we see the (place of?) daily sacrifice removed, we will see 666 set up three (Hebrew) years and 7 months later, which is when one should lie low for the 45 days remaining, with the last "ten days" being the most critical (escalating from cannot buy or sell, to will be killed?)

Where are we now?
- - it seems logical to me that man's splitting of the atom should be in bible prophecy.. It changed the face of the world. And i think it is, in the bk of rev, in two places.. three if we count the bowls..

- seal 6 - but the seals contain a mystery, a lock.. for they are described here as a braid (not even in order!) of two things - a weaving of two threads, a braid.. [1]what they are when first beginning and [2]what they are at the 'end' - i.e. things which occur late are told here so early.. obscuring the vision..

- seal 6 (verses 12-17) i believe is man's original splitting of the atom  - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6%3A12-17&version=ERV

After which there is a pause of it as warfare, i believe we are in that pause - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+7%3A1&version=ERV

This, I believe, is where we are right now... and when the pause of the split atom as warfare (altho, imo, will be limited at the time) is broken, is when i believe the 7th seal is opened and things escalate - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+8%3A2-6&version=ERV

...the prophecy "they shall be called mine who were not called mine" I believe is the gentile nations, once apart from the promises, now have a part.. grafted into Israel.. and also I tend to believe refers to the great day of judgment/review, when the 2nd resurrection will repent and also be grafted in / saved, and thus will be His! "Every knew shall bow"!

..the one who will make a firm covenant, treaty, league (Strong's #1285) for one week (of years?/7years?) will be I believe the 2nd beast of rev 13, verses 11-18 (not 1-10 which i believe is the 'big' beast, world beast, world body? but in last days will work together) but the office pinpointed by the fire of verse 13 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13%3A13&version=ERV (1945? over nagasaki and hiroshima?!)

- verse 14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13%3A14&version=YLT - two versions? after the new fire (wind, aka, 7:1 wind held back/paused) the world persuaded to rebbuild the world beast.. not yet a beast at the time? tho its foundations are very interesting!

I believe Bible prophecy and the book of revelation are meant to be an open book not a mystery..

On the wing of abominations (genocides, beheadings, wars) shall come one (rev 13:13/11-18) who abominates tho he speaks "peace, peace" I believe at one time he will have sat in the office that carried out Rev 13:13 (fire brought down upon earth in the sight of mankind, aka, 1945?)

hmmmm, that last part, not too clear.. I believe there will be a world governing body is Rev 13:1-10 & Daniel 9:7&19) infiltrated by, or using, those who behead(rev 20:4b)..

The office which released the new fire of Rev 13:13 (upon Nagasaki and Hiroshima in 1945) will have a last days one who will step into or work closely with the world beast/body, giving to it, finally, life, breath/authority - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13%3A15&version=ERV

When?? -  Dan 12:11,12 ERV version - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+12%3A11-12&version=ERV
- - OR Dan 12:11,12 Young's Literal Version - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=daniel+12%3A11-12&version=YLT

:Peace2: and God bless..


Title: Re: Short time
Post by: marie glen on September 18, 2014, 12:28:53 AM
P.S -  a "remnant of Israel" - i think, after persecutions, including the holocaust, there were survivors.. a remnant..
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: Searching_For_The_Truth on September 18, 2014, 02:09:53 AM
According to William Tapley, the daily sacrifice taken away is the Holy Eucharist, which already happened in April when Pope Francis granted communion to a divorced woman who remarried
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 18, 2014, 02:32:26 AM


  Wow! ,  Marie that was  pretty   thorough   run down of  history and  Thank you for all the time you took  to put this in  words  and sequence !!   :friendstu:


QuoteI believe Bible prophecy and the book of revelation are meant to be an open book not a mystery.


I see in the scriptures   that it was sealed in Daniel and   also Revelation
  and there is     the place where it says       The Lamb opens the seals of the book     
  and   believe that is   what happened after the   work  of the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ
  But the Word of God says  a  thousand years to God  is a day and a day a thousand years   
 

and  22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.







 

Title: Re: Short time
Post by: micah7:9 on September 18, 2014, 06:03:47 AM
My life is a short time......measure by that. :dsunny:
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 18, 2014, 01:47:18 PM
 :Peace2:

  Every ones lives are short   , no man can even fathom , understand  or measure   timelessness / eternity /olam, without end  .

I  wonder  if all we will have is faith   and hope   with love   that will matter  to God and  that will be the precious  things that matter most  .

What else  matters to God , who  has and is and will always be the possessor of All things ?
How we handled His  precious things ?

   He asks will He find  faith  at His coming            with hope trusting Him   and love showing His  Glory  in the earth  .


I am so thankful    for  those   gifts of the Holy Spirit    and  His  mercy and grace  though Jesus Christ , the most precious gift to all mankind .

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_eternity.html (http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_eternity.html)
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: marie glen on September 18, 2014, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: rosered on September 18, 2014, 02:32:26 AM


  Wow! ,  Marie that was  pretty   thorough   run down of  history and  Thank you for all the time you took  to put this in  words  and sequence !!   :friendstu:


QuoteI believe Bible prophecy and the book of revelation are meant to be an open book not a mystery.


I see in the scriptures   that it was sealed in Daniel and   also Revelation
  and there is     the place where it says       The Lamb opens the seals of the book     
  and   believe that is   what happened after the   work  of the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ
  But the Word of God says  a  thousand years to God  is a day and a day a thousand years   
 

and  22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

 



I guess I believe it's an open book when He gives the keys.. I've wondered if the seven thunders which John was told not to write, were those keys.. seven of them..??

The verse, I believe, is a simile which says to God's perspective a thousand years is like a day... and a day is like a thousand years.. (Usually the 2nd part is overlooked, such as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, isn't assumed to refer to 3000 years) :laughing7:

And of course Daniel writing "blessed is the one waiting and coming to the 1335th day" would surely be difficult for a person to wait and come to that day if the waiting was 1,335 years..


I forgot one thing in my post... during the pause of rev 7:1 is when the servents of God are sealed on their forehead... (to go along with the seal on their heart which cries "Abba Father!" or in our way of speaking "Father! my Father!"). I know it lists (numbers) those from the tribes of Israel sealed on their forehead, but also is a great crowd.. and aren't gentile believers grafted into Israel..? And if their foreheads are sealed than I figure gentile believers and followers of Jesus' foreheads are meant to be sealed.. I have wondered if this seal may not be 100% clarity.. no false illusions, beliefs, ideas, doctrines in all the body of Christ..
        :smile:
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: rosered on September 18, 2014, 04:09:33 PM
Quote from: marie glen on September 18, 2014, 03:21:11 PM
Quote from: rosered on September 18, 2014, 02:32:26 AM


  Wow! ,  Marie that was  pretty   thorough   run down of  history and  Thank you for all the time you took  to put this in  words  and sequence !!   :friendstu:


QuoteI believe Bible prophecy and the book of revelation are meant to be an open book not a mystery.


I see in the scriptures   that it was sealed in Daniel and   also Revelation
  and there is     the place where it says       The Lamb opens the seals of the book     
  and   believe that is   what happened after the   work  of the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ
  But the Word of God says  a  thousand years to God  is a day and a day a thousand years   
 

and  22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

 



I guess I believe it's an open book when He gives the keys.. I've wondered if the seven thunders which John was told not to write, were those keys.. seven of them..??

The verse, I believe, is a simile which says to God's perspective a thousand years is like a day... and a day is like a thousand years.. (Usually the 2nd part is overlooked, such as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, isn't assumed to refer to 3000 years) :laughing7:

And of course Daniel writing "blessed is the one waiting and coming to the 1335th day" would surely be difficult for a person to wait and come to that day if the waiting was 1,335 years..


I forgot one thing in my post... during the pause of rev 7:1 is when the servents of God are sealed on their forehead... (to go along with the seal on their heart which cries "Abba Father!" or in our way of speaking "Father! my Father!"). I know it lists (numbers) those from the tribes of Israel sealed on their forehead, but also is a great crowd.. and aren't gentile believers grafted into Israel..? And if their foreheads are sealed than I figure gentile believers and followers of Jesus' foreheads are meant to be sealed.. I have wondered if this seal may not be 100% clarity.. no false illusions, beliefs, ideas, doctrines in all the body of Christ..
        :smile:
Great Thoughts Marie  :thumbsup:
I have  never considered   the  seven thunders as     7 keys before   !   
Those voices to open    what was   sealed   ,    This is most      wonderful , thank you !!!    after reading the below verses     , WoW!  YES !

Yes the Spiritual   message  as well as the natural force   in nature and as the sea  of the dead  being
    it seems  have   much   truth in them   as God reveals   it   , like unfolding  plans  for the   soldiers    to  see , that have been held in the hand of the commander !
 
   the mystery of God   would be finished   in Rev  10   !!    and than   executed   to  be  worked out   as planned .


6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT,


AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer,



7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished,


as He preached to His servants the prophets.

8Then the voice which I heard from heaven, I heard again speaking with me, and saying,


"Go, take the book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the land

Blessings sis   :friendstu:
Title: Re: Short time
Post by: marie glen on September 18, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
Quote from: rosered on September 18, 2014, 04:09:33 PM

   ...like unfolding  plans  for the   soldiers    to  see , that have been held in the hand of the commander !



  Wow! I love that! ..and the rest of your post too! but that line was totally tops!! could see the scroll in his hand as tho to be passed to us :)) :friendstu: :dsunny: