Revelation 9:6

[sparrow]

During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

What do you think this in reference to?

[Doug]

During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

What do you think this in reference to?

The context is the description of the 1st woe, a plague of scorpion-locusts. This verse, IMO, alludes to the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers, whose souls are said to be immortal, so they can't die. This prophecy was discussed in another thread with the subject: "Delusion of infernal torment: a pagan superstition."

Doug

[Beloved Servant]

That the Life and Love of Christ will fill the earth.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi sister S... :hithere:

During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

What do you think this in reference to?

Here's my present observation:

FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.  Rather it is about the ENTIRE History of Man ("during those days"), concerning the Revealing of the Savior, from its "alpha" to its "omega"... CHRIST who is without Beginning or End, IS the beginning AND end of all things which HAVE beginnings and endings...

SECOND...As you might or might not know, ...I believe THIS LIFE is the Lake of FIRE...

There are many diseases and conditions which have represented the eventuality of "death", that have eluded men THROUGHOUT the course of time...  Many are (were and will be) suffering greatly and would WELCOME DEATH as an END to that suffering (long to die)...  As long as they suffer, ...DEATH eludes them...

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

Revelation 9

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).

2And he opened the bottomless pit ( The Sons ); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace ( The Spirit without measure ) ; and the sun and the air  ( what flesh needs to sustain itself ) were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power ( The Sons ).

4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree ( young in Christ ); but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months ( 4+1= creation with Him ): and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

[WhiteWings]

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).

BS,
Do you mean?
Sin=death.
Most try to stay in their old sinful habbits but they are constantly confonted with the truth/life.
They want to die/sin but they are stopped.
Is that a correct interpretation?

[Beloved Servant]

That works for me!  :)

[WhiteWings]

With such an interpretation Revelation goes from "death and destruction" to "life and contruction"....

That seem contrary to a verse I can't find right now but similar to:
"But for sake of the believers the days shall be shortened or else no flesh would be spared."

But that would mean God wants to spare sin. I don't think that's right.

[Beloved Servant]

Not spare it.
Destroy it.
They shall find it not.

[Doug]

Here is a revision of my previously posted study on Rev. 9:1-11.

The prophecy of Rev. 9:1-11 is interpreted in this article as a symbolic description of those who teach the ancient superstition of the unending infernal torment of unbelievers. Interpretations of the symbols are derived from scripture where possible.

"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace." [Rev. 9:1-2]

Stars represent the saints, [Gen. 22:17, 37:9; Dan. 12.3]. The star that fell to the earth could refer to one of the early Christians. In Rev. 12:4, the tail of the dragon draws a third of the stars to the earth.

The star may be identified with one of the church fathers, who believed in pagan superstition of the unending infernal torment of unbelievers, and introduced that doctrine into the church. Edward White's Life in Christ, (London 1875) identifies Augustine as the one who was chiefly responsible for the orthodox doctrines of the church on the fate of unbelievers. See:
http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/white.html

The smoke from the bottomless pit in verse 2 probably refers to confusion and superstition. The historian Livy in Hist., I:19, says Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome, invented the fear of the gods, as "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." The ancient historian Polybius also reported that superstition and a "pageantry of terrifying fiction" was promoted in ancient Roman society, by their rulers, as a means of restraining the passions of the people. He wrote, "The ancients, therefore, acted not absurdedly, nor without good reason, when they inculcated the notions concerning the gods, and the belief of infernal punishments..." [Histories VI,56] Pagan superstitions about death and the immortality of the soul were introduced into the church in the early centuries AD.

Because of the influence of these superstitions, people continue to view God as mean and unforgiving, but the scriptures reveal a God of love, who is very merciful. "The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide; neither will He keep His anger forever." [Psa. 103:8,9]

"The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss." [Rev. 9:3]

The sun represents the gospel; it is one of the great lights in Genesis 1:16, intended as a sign; the gospel is referred to as a great light in Isaiah's prophecy, Isa. 9:2, fulfilled by Jesus, Matt. 4:16; the sun clothes the woman in heaven, Rev. 12:1. Jesus spoke of "the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father," Matt. 13:43. The sun being darkened means the true light of the gospel is obscured.

"And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth" [Rev. 9:3]

The locusts in John's prophecy resemble the locusts of the great destructive army described in Joel 2.

"and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth." [Rev. 9:3]

Scorpions are mentioned in connection with chastisement and punishment in scripture. Solomon's son Rehoboam said to the people of Israel, "My father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." [1 Kings 12:11]

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." [Rev. 9:4]

These are not real locusts, but people who spread a flawed doctrine about the fate of unbelievers.

"They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months." [Rev. 9:5]

The life span of the desert locust is 3 to 5 months, but varies depending on environmental conditions. Five months, or 150 days, was the duration of the flood waters that covered the earth, and destroyed all those not saved in the ark of Noah, and the unsaved are those who are affected by their torment. Perhaps the 5 months of torment represents a "locust life- span".

"And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man." [Rev. 9:5]

The doctrine of the locusts is that those who do not accept their religion will be punished for their sins, and suffer agonizing pain, and an unending infernal torment.

"During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." [Rev. 9:6]

This alludes to the belief in the immortality of the soul, and the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers, who presumably would wish to die rather than suffer endlessly, but can't.

"The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle." [Rev. 9:7]

John compares the locusts with horses. In scripture, people with no understanding are compared with horses.

Psalm 32:9
Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.

Their riders are men, or perhaps the doctrines of men.

"On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold," [Rev. 9:7]

Arron the high priest wore a crown of gold, Lev. 8:9.

Crowns of gold may represent halos that are shown on the heads of the saints in old paintings;

The crowns show the locusts are religious people, or churchmen. [1 Pet. 2:9]

"Their hair was like women's hair," [Rev. 9:8]

Paul said, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."  [1 Cor. 11:3-4]

Thus the locusts with faces of men, and women's hair, dishonour Christ. Their doctrine of unending infernal torments certainly does that.

"and their teeth were like lions' teeth." [Rev. 9:8]

Lions' teeth represent people who are fierce. Paul said that people would be fierce in the last days. [2 Tim. 3:1-3] Also, the antichrist figure in Dan. 8:23-26 is called "a king of fierce countenance."

"They had breastplates like breastplates of iron," [Rev. 9:9]

Breastplates are associated with righteousness in Eph. 6:14. The locusts tout their own righteousness. Their breastplates of iron show they are impervious to the truth, and to reason. Their hearts are unfeeling, and cannot be touched.

"and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle." [Rev. 9:9]

Horses and chariots rushing to battle would make a loud, clattering noise, as chariot wheels rolled over stony ground.

"They had tails and stings like scorpions," [Rev. 9:10]

Isaiah said, "the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." [Isa. 9:15]

"and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months." [Rev. 9:10]

The tails are symbolic of a "prophet that teaches lies" as that is what the locusts are, false prophets. They have another gospel, a distortion of the true gospel of Christ, that incorporates the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers. Centuries of tradition have cemented the concept of unending infernal torment in the minds of many. Their views are not easily discarded.

"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon," [Rev. 9:11]

Abaddon means destroyer, Job 26:6. The effect of the locust plague is that it destroys the church, and obscures the gospel. It paints God as a cruel monster, a fiend.

"and in Greek, Apollyon." [Rev. 9:11]

This probably alludes to Apollo Parnopius, the Greek god of plagues. (Parnopius means "grasshopper.") Apollo was also a god of prophecy.

Doug

[Doug]

FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.

Hmm..

Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Doug

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Doug... :hithere:

FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.

Hmm..

Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Doug

Thanks Doug... I stand corrected... Maybe I should have worded my phrase otherwise -- eh?  :mblush: 

What I meant to say (in better words this time, hopefully), ...is that I believe that the book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is not exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions...  It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will...  :dontknow:

If ANY of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of  Scripture are useless until the END... and have no benefit to those that live before that "END" comes...   And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? :dunno:

I see PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon JESUS CHRIST (the WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...

What IS Prophecy?  Yes, ...it IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction",  ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.   

The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"... 

The "prediction" of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning] to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...

The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION.  For CHRIST said: 

John 5:39 -- Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...

JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...

The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is "to come" -- Still has to do with the "to come" in each ONE in which He is REVEALED...

And that is WHY CHRIST recommended in John 5:39 -- to search the OT, for the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...

A TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts... CHRIST noted the OT as a TESTIMONY of Himself... 

ALL of the notations of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)

IMO... each WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that WORD is revealed to us... For...

2 Tim 3:16  ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....

Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...

GOD's WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.

In the end, I spoke unclearly and apologize for that bumbling... :wacko2:  :Violinhit:

I hope this post gives a clearer picture of how I see it (presently/still studying & seeking)...  Sorry for the lack of clarification.

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

[Doug]

willieH: Hi Doug... hi there

FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.

Hmm..

Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Doug

Thanks Doug... I stand corrected... Maybe I should have worded my phrase otherwise -- eh?  blush

What I meant to say (in better words this time, hopefully), ...is that I believe that the book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is not exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions...  It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will...

If ANY of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of  Scripture are useless until the END... and have no benefit to those that live before that "END" comes...   And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? dunno

I see PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon JESUS CHRIST (the WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...

What IS Prophecy?  Yes, ...it IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction",  ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.   

The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"...

The "prediction" of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning] to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...

The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION.  For CHRIST said:

John 5:39 -- Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...

JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...

The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is "to come" -- Still has to do with the "to come" in each ONE in which He is REVEALED...

And that is WHY CHRIST recommended in John 5:39 -- to search the OT, for the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...

A TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts... CHRIST noted the OT as a TESTIMONY of Himself...

ALL of the notations of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)

IMO... each WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that WORD is revealed to us... For...

2 Tim 3:16  ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....

Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...

GOD's WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.

In the end, I spoke unclearly and apologize for that bumbling... wacko  Violinhit

I hope this post gives a clearer picture of how I see it (presently/still studying & seeking)...  Sorry for the lack of clarification.

Thanks willieH, I agree! :thumbsup:

Peace, Doug 

[Redlettervoice]

.

WillieH

.I believe that the book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is not exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions...  It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will...

If ANY of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of  Scripture are useless until the END... and have no benefit to those that live before that "END" comes...   And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? dunno

I see PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon JESUS CHRIST (the WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...

What IS Prophecy?  Yes, ...it IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction",  ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.   

The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"...

The "prediction" of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning] to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...

The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION.  For CHRIST said:

John 5:39 -- Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...

JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...

The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is "to come" -- Still has to do with the "to come" in each ONE in which He is REVEALED...

And that is WHY CHRIST recommended in John 5:39 -- to search the OT, for the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...

A TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts... CHRIST noted the OT as a TESTIMONY of Himself...

ALL of the notations of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)

IMO... each WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that WORD is revealed to us... For...

2 Tim 3:16  ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....

Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...

GOD's WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.

Yes, WillieH, I agree.....it is the "revealing" of Christ in You, the Revelation of Jesus Christ......God has to give it to everyone and
perhaps He predicted that He would.
 

[Texas Son]

I believe that Revelation was written as a continuous prophecy to what our Lord had spoken of in the Gospels. Jesus said in the Gospels, "the time is at hand", "there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Kingdom of God." These things Jesus let us know were imminent to those who heard His words.

Revelation has the same admonitions. "things that must shortly take place", "for the time is near" "things which must soon take place".

From the preterist view these are the things that happened during the siege of Judah, and Jerusalem around 70AD.

Revelation 9:6 "And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them."

Josephus tells us in the book of The Jewish Wars; Book 5, Chapter 12

"(515) Nor was there any lamentations made under these calamities, nor were heard any mournful complaints; but the famine confounded all natural passions; for those who were just going to die looked upon those that were gone to rest before them with dry eyes and open mouths. A deep silence also, and a kind of deadly night, had seized upon the city; while yet the robbers were still more terrible than these miseries were themselves; (516) for they broke open those houses which were no other than graves of dead bodies, and plundered them of what they had; and carrying off the coverings of their bodies, went out laughing, and tried the points of their sword in their dead bodies; and in order to prove what metal they were made of they thrust some of those through that still lay alive upon the ground; (517) but for those that entreated them to lend them their right hand and their sword to dispatch them, they were too proud to grant their requests, and left them to be consumed by the famine. Now everyone of these died with their eyes fixed upon the temple, and left the rebellious alive behind them."

(emphasis mine)

During the siege, which incidentally took seven years, the bandits within the city burned down the granaries. Famine was widespread while the enemies (Romans) encompassed the city. As Josephus says above, there were those that were just lying on the ground in misery of the famine just asking to be killed to be released from their agony. But the bandits were too proud to allow this and left them to their own slow demise.

[Doug]

Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.

Besides those, H. A. Ironside suggested they represent "occult" movements such as "Eddyism, Spiritism, and Theosophy." He also mentioned the Mormons.

[H. A. Ironside, Lectures on the book of Revelation, Western book & tract co. Oakland, Cal., 1919. p. 157-158]

Don Koenig says: "We can be sure they are demonic beings"
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20chap%209.HTM

The Bible Knowledge Commentary by John F. Walvoord, & Roy B. Zuck says, p. 952:

"Thus they might be demons who appear in the form of locusts. ... Their demonic control over people was such, however, that though the victims desired to die they could not take their own lives. ... The picture is one of Satan's awesome supernatural power and the demon world especially in relation to unbelievers"

John Darby's Synopsis of the New Testament identifies the locusts with "crowds of moral locusts with the sting of false doctrine in their tail. But it was not to destroy temporal prosperity on the earth, but to torment the ungodly Jews; not to kill, but to harass and vex them."
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/dsn/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=009

Things to come by J. Dwight Pentecost on p. 362 says: "It is generally conceded that these are not literal locusts in that they do not feed on that which is natural to the locust." He quotes Wm. Kelly, who suggested the first Woe "is emphatically torment from Satan on the reprobate Jews." Pentecost wrote, referring to the two woes described in Rev. 9, "This suggests that the two woes will be marching armies, one against Israel and one against the Gentiles, which will destroy a third of the earth's population."
http://books.google.ca/books?id=2k6jJ12en1cC

Discussing dispensationalist views on Rev. 9:7-10, Amy Johnson Frykholm wrote:

Left Behind takes this passage very literally. It depicts insectlike creatures with human faces and long hair, riding horses. But other prophecy writers and prophecy imaginers have gone a bit farther. Hal Lindsey, for example, suggests that the locusts of Revelation could be a first-century attempt to describe and understand the modern invention of an attack helicopter. He suggests that the "locusts" are not literal horses, but modern technology described through a first-century imagination. This obviously requires a leap of imagination that takes the reader far beyond a "literal" understanding of the text. Like the literal interpretation, however, it does the work of correspondence and translation, taking something from the biblical text, coding it within a particular narrative, and then giving it a correspondence to the real world.

[Rapture Culture: Left Behind in Evangelical America, by Amy Johnson Frykholm, Oxford University Press US, 2004. p. 116-117.]

Dr. Stephen R. Sizer comments:

"Using Lindsey's 'Bible Code', the Apostle John's 'locusts' thereby become helicopters, 'horses prepared for battle' are actually heavily armed attack helicopters, 'crowns of gold' are the helmets worn by pilots, and the 'sound of their wings' are the 'thunderous sound of many attack helicopters flying overhead."

The Development of a Literalist Christian Zionist Hermeneutic 
http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Sizer07.asp

On a different forum, someone proposed that the locusts are "pastors," and another person suggested that the 1st woe is "Protestantism."

W. Hengstenberg thought they represent a "hostile devastation" by some invading army.
The Revelation of St John by Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg, p. 432.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=b5UXAAAAYAAJ

The Critical and Explanatory Commentary on the Whole Bible, by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown. 1871, says: "The locusts are supernatural instruments in the hands of Satan to torment, and yet not kill, the ungodly"

The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible identifies the locusts with the Muslim religion founded by Mohammed: "Revelation 9:6 The ravages of the Saracens, their incursions, and the invasions by them, struck such terror into the inhabitants of divers parts of the empire, that they made death more eligible to them than life."

On this line, James Burton Coffman noted:

Plummer pointed out that "some scholars apply the symbol (the locusts) to the Muslims"; and the prophecy surely fits that part of history; however, it misses the true identity of the "locust." That was the hell-born idea that Mohammed was a prophet of God! They even had to get a new Bible to go with such a falsehood. As Lenski said, "All that is presented here is only one hellish curse to let loose on the earth."

From James Burton Coffman's Commentaries.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/

Coffman wrote:

As Lenski said, "All that is presented here is only one hellish curse to let loose on the earth." Every generation has its own variety of "locust." It will be seen from these observations that the apparent mildness of the fifth trumpet locusts, in that they were not to "kill" people, but could merely torment them, is applicable only to their first phase. These two trumpets deal with exactly the same phenomenon in successive periods of its development. Note the resemblance of the hellish horsemen to the locusts; they are the "locusts" come of age!

Such locust-lies continually dominate the minds of the wicked. As these lines are being written (December, 1978), the news media are relating the saga of Jim Jones (recommended by the Vice President of the United States), who passed himself off as a Messiah, ending in the suicide-murder massacre of over 900 of his followers in Guyana, South America. The dupes who fell for Jones' lie were indeed deceived by Satan; but before they could swallow his "locust," they had to renounce and deny their Bibles.

"Various kinds of "locusts" are today tormenting people all over the world. Think of Communism, the words of Mao Tse-tung, the emperor cult in Japan, etc. In America, we have our own "locust," which is the falsehood that Uncle Sam can take care of everybody from the cradle to the grave, and that he is also the godfather, benefactor, and policeman of the whole world!

From all of the above, it is clear that indeed the "wings" of the locusts make a loud clattering noise, rather like the noise of chariot wheels going over the streets of ancient cities, which disturbed people who were trying to sleep. But there is not much intelligence in it!

Doug

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Willie........the Lord told me years ago that for something to be SPIRIT and therefore LIFE in there, it has to mean the SAME THING to 1st century believers as it does for 21st century believers, because God is no respecter of persons.

But because He is also capable of ministering Truth to all three 'divisions' of peoples as presented by the Tabernacle pattern, it can also minister as literal events in time sometimes, and NEVER LOSE it's SPIRITUAL application that has been provided to build up Christ in those who have been called to perceive it. Blessings....

[Texas Son]

Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.
Doug

Wow, you have quite a list there. I tend to go with the simplest answer. I would never claim to be the authority on this verse of Revelation but I believe when history confirms a prophetic event it is always wise to give it merit.  :Sparkletooth:

Blessings!
Texas Son

[Doug]

Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.
Doug

Wow, you have quite a list there. I tend to go with the simplest answer. I would never claim to be the authority on this verse of Revelation but I believe when history confirms a prophetic event it is always wise to give it merit. 

Hmm... would the suffering of those people due to starvation fit the description of the pain inflicted by the locusts? Suffering due to starvation would become progressively worse, but a scorpion sting is the opposite; "...and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

The effects of a scorpion sting are described (from various sources) as: "sharp pain, malaise, sweating, heart palpitations, rise in blood pressure, salivation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhoea; irregular eye movements, involuntary thrashing of limbs, breathing difficulties; a feeling like your throat is closing; numbness, tingling; blurring of consciousness, unconsciousness, convulsions, fall in blood pressure, shock and consequently the threat of death."

Doug

[Cardinal]

Revelation 9

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).


7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

:cloud9: This really blessed me Beloved Servant; you're the first person in 23 years that I have ever heard speak of the bottomless pit this way. The Lord told me years ago that He was the bottomless pit for this reason; Satan can't find any flesh to stand on in Him, which is why He said, the prince of this world cometh and he hath nothing IN ME.

And as for line 7, it's so apparent as we are His goodly horses in the battle He says in a another place, and the High Priest mitre is the crown of gold that the overcomers receive. Good post........ :thumbsup: Blessings.....

[sheila]

Beloved,Cardinal,YES!!!

   Think of it...5 months of torment..the demon possessed man

that asked Christ if He had come to torment him before the

appointed time. The association with 'woes' because satan had

been cast out of heaven unto the earth[3 woes] BECAUSE

HE KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT.


  Also, John the Baptist [Elijah spirit] eating LOCUSTS and

  HONEY...speaking to those who came unto him..to offspring of

vipers  ' who warned you to flee from the coming wrath'?


  the VOICE OF ONE CALLING OUT IN THE WILDERNESS

  PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE LORD

   I baptize you with water for repentance.BUT AFTER ME WILL

COME ONE WHO IS MORE POWERFUL THAN ME

WHOSE SANDALS I AM NOT FIT TO CARRY

HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE

HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR

HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN

AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE


  BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD,WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF

    THE WORLD!

[Doug]

HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE

HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR

HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN

AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

John wrote, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." [1 John 4:1]

Let's look at the post by Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009 and see if it stands up to scrutiny.

Revelation 9

1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).

Christ is not a star that falls from heaven to the earth! That's what he said of Satan: "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." [Luke 10:18]

What scripture identifies the bottomless pit with "The manifested Sons"? 

2And he opened the bottomless pit ( The Sons ); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace ( The Spirit without measure ) ; and the sun and the air  ( what flesh needs to sustain itself ) were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

What scripture identifies the bottomless pit with "The Sons"? What scripture suggests the Holy Spirit is pictured by smoke of a great furnace coming out of "the bottomless pit"? The sun is identified with the gospel in scripture; it is the sun that clothes the woman in heaven, Rev. 12:1.

3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power ( The Sons ).

Where are scorpions identified with "The Sons" in scripture? A scripture that does seem relevant is 1 Kings 12:11, where the threat of the young king was "I will chastise you with scorpions." So they are associated with chastisement.

4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree ( young in Christ ); but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

What scripture suggests the trees of this verse mean "young in Christ"?

5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months ( 4+1= creation with Him ): and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

I don't see how "tormented five months" means "4+1= creation with Him." Maybe I missed something. What does it mean? Is there a scripture that supports it?

6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).

Christians may lapse back into sin; Peter wrote: 

2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

To say "death shall flee from them" seems an odd way to express the idea Peter so plainly stated.

Another figure in scripture that represents this is stars being drawn by the tail of the dragon, and cast to the earth, Rev. 12:4. I believe it refers to believers who return to the world, and to bondage to sin.

7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

Peter said, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." [Peter 1:20] I take this to mean we ought to avoid making up our own interpretations and instead look for what the scripture itself says about the symbols used in prophecy.

Doug

[sheila]

Hi Doug;

  For every GOOD AND POSITIVE OF GOD, Satan offers

  his perverted negative..apostles/false apostles...Prince of

peace/prince of the air. ....Abrahams seed are as the sands of

the sea and as of the stars of heaven..the wise men saw

Jesus 'star' and new a KING had been born...HE [Jesus] has the

keys...." and I hold the keys of death and Hades" 

  Matthew 12;11 If any of you has a sheep and it falls

  in to a pit[or abyss?]on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of

it and lift it out?  The sun turns black as sackcloth and the

moon to blood[especially when smoke like that of a great

furnance affects them/ don't forgot the smoke on the Mountain

with Moses in God's presence..or the smoke of GOD'S GLORY

FILLING THE TEMPLE

   the 'sting' is like scorpions..in bringing much 'torment'

   the 'torment' is the sting of truth to the kingdom of

   Darkness,that their 'time' is short....tails like serpents..

   hmmmm seems Moses had a rod that turned into a serpent

   when needed.to swallow up the serpent  the TRUTH HURTS!!!
  ..

     o' death where is your sting.?..He is basically 'stinging' the

kingdom of darkness/death...o'death I shall be thy PLAGUES.

  all flesh is as grass...but beware there are snakes in the grass

  and this 'sting/torment' is for them...and men of faith are

trees of righteousness...even though there be a snake hanging

in the branches. for 'cursed' is everthing that hangs on a tree

[sheila]

  But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,

  [all men are ELECTED by GOD TO ETERNAL LIFE]

  Adam lived 930 years in this corruption..God has 'cut' down

the time we spend here....120 years at one time..then further

cut down to 70.

   He said 'for I will not always strive with flesh,lest the spirit

    fail before me"

[sparrow]

  But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,

  [all men are ELECTED by GOD TO ETERNAL LIFE]

  Adam lived 930 years in this corruption..God has 'cut' down

the time we spend here....120 years at one time..then further

cut down to 70.

   He said 'for I will not always strive with flesh,lest the spirit

    fail before me"

Amen, sister Sheila.