During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
What do you think this in reference to?
Quote from: sparrow
During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
What do you think this in reference to?
The context is the description of the 1st woe, a plague of scorpion-locusts. This verse, IMO, alludes to the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers, whose souls are said to be immortal, so they can't die. This prophecy was discussed in another thread with the subject: "Delusion of infernal torment: a pagan superstition."
Doug
That the Life and Love of Christ will fill the earth.
willieH: Hi sister S... :hithere:
Quote from: sparrow on July 31, 2009, 08:29:24 PM
During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
What do you think this in reference to?
Here's my present observation:
FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book. Rather it is about the ENTIRE History of Man ("
during those days"), concerning the Revealing of the Savior, from its "alpha" to its "omega"...
CHRIST who is without Beginning or End, IS the beginning AND end of all things which HAVE beginnings and endings...
SECOND...As you might or might not know, ...I believe
THIS LIFE is the
Lake of FIRE...
There are many diseases and conditions which have represented the eventuality of "death", that have
eluded men
THROUGHOUT the course of time... Many are (were and will be) suffering greatly and would WELCOME DEATH as an END to that suffering (
long to die)... As long as they suffer, ...DEATH
eludes them...
...willieH :HeartThrob:
Revelation 9
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).
2And he opened the bottomless pit ( The Sons ); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace ( The Spirit without measure ) ; and the sun and the air ( what flesh needs to sustain itself ) were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power ( The Sons ).
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree ( young in Christ ); but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months ( 4+1= creation with Him ): and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009, 09:58:00 PM
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).
BS,
Do you mean?
Sin=death.
Most try to stay in their old sinful habbits but they are constantly confonted with the truth/life.
They want to die/sin but they are stopped.
Is that a correct interpretation?
That works for me! :)
With such an interpretation Revelation goes from "death and destruction" to "life and contruction"....
That seem contrary to a verse I can't find right now but similar to:
"But for sake of the believers the days shall be shortened or else no flesh would be spared."
But that would mean God wants to spare sin. I don't think that's right.
Not spare it.
Destroy it.
They shall find it not.
Here is a revision of my previously posted study on Rev. 9:1-11.
The prophecy of Rev. 9:1-11 is interpreted in this article as a symbolic description of those who teach the ancient superstition of the unending infernal torment of unbelievers. Interpretations of the symbols are derived from scripture where possible.
"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace." [Rev. 9:1-2]
Stars represent the saints, [Gen. 22:17, 37:9; Dan. 12.3]. The star that fell to the earth could refer to one of the early Christians. In Rev. 12:4, the tail of the dragon draws a third of the stars to the earth.
The star may be identified with one of the church fathers, who believed in pagan superstition of the unending infernal torment of unbelievers, and introduced that doctrine into the church. Edward White's Life in Christ, (London 1875) identifies Augustine as the one who was chiefly responsible for the orthodox doctrines of the church on the fate of unbelievers. See:
http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/OP/white.html
The smoke from the bottomless pit in verse 2 probably refers to confusion and superstition. The historian Livy in Hist., I:19, says Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome, invented the fear of the gods, as "a most efficacious means of governing an ignorant and barbarous populace." The ancient historian Polybius also reported that superstition and a "pageantry of terrifying fiction" was promoted in ancient Roman society, by their rulers, as a means of restraining the passions of the people. He wrote, "The ancients, therefore, acted not absurdedly, nor without good reason, when they inculcated the notions concerning the gods, and the belief of infernal punishments..." [Histories VI,56] Pagan superstitions about death and the immortality of the soul were introduced into the church in the early centuries AD.
Because of the influence of these superstitions, people continue to view God as mean and unforgiving, but the scriptures reveal a God of love, who is very merciful. "The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. He will not always chide; neither will He keep His anger forever." [Psa. 103:8,9]
"The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss." [Rev. 9:3]
The sun represents the gospel; it is one of the great lights in Genesis 1:16, intended as a sign; the gospel is referred to as a great light in Isaiah's prophecy, Isa. 9:2, fulfilled by Jesus, Matt. 4:16; the sun clothes the woman in heaven, Rev. 12:1. Jesus spoke of "the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father," Matt. 13:43. The sun being darkened means the true light of the gospel is obscured.
"And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth" [Rev. 9:3]
The locusts in John's prophecy resemble the locusts of the great destructive army described in Joel 2.
"and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth." [Rev. 9:3]
Scorpions are mentioned in connection with chastisement and punishment in scripture. Solomon's son Rehoboam said to the people of Israel, "My father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." [1 Kings 12:11]
"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads." [Rev. 9:4]
These are not real locusts, but people who spread a flawed doctrine about the fate of unbelievers.
"They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months." [Rev. 9:5]
The life span of the desert locust is 3 to 5 months, but varies depending on environmental conditions. Five months, or 150 days, was the duration of the flood waters that covered the earth, and destroyed all those not saved in the ark of Noah, and the unsaved are those who are affected by their torment. Perhaps the 5 months of torment represents a "locust life- span".
"And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man." [Rev. 9:5]
The doctrine of the locusts is that those who do not accept their religion will be punished for their sins, and suffer agonizing pain, and an unending infernal torment.
"During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them." [Rev. 9:6]
This alludes to the belief in the immortality of the soul, and the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers, who presumably would wish to die rather than suffer endlessly, but can't.
"The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle." [Rev. 9:7]
John compares the locusts with horses. In scripture, people with no understanding are compared with horses.
Psalm 32:9
Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.
Their riders are men, or perhaps the doctrines of men.
"On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold," [Rev. 9:7]
Arron the high priest wore a crown of gold, Lev. 8:9.
Crowns of gold may represent halos that are shown on the heads of the saints in old paintings;
The crowns show the locusts are religious people, or churchmen. [1 Pet. 2:9]
"Their hair was like women's hair," [Rev. 9:8]
Paul said, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head." [1 Cor. 11:3-4]
Thus the locusts with faces of men, and women's hair, dishonour Christ. Their doctrine of unending infernal torments certainly does that.
"and their teeth were like lions' teeth." [Rev. 9:8]
Lions' teeth represent people who are fierce. Paul said that people would be fierce in the last days. [2 Tim. 3:1-3] Also, the antichrist figure in Dan. 8:23-26 is called "a king of fierce countenance."
"They had breastplates like breastplates of iron," [Rev. 9:9]
Breastplates are associated with righteousness in Eph. 6:14. The locusts tout their own righteousness. Their breastplates of iron show they are impervious to the truth, and to reason. Their hearts are unfeeling, and cannot be touched.
"and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle." [Rev. 9:9]
Horses and chariots rushing to battle would make a loud, clattering noise, as chariot wheels rolled over stony ground.
"They had tails and stings like scorpions," [Rev. 9:10]
Isaiah said, "the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." [Isa. 9:15]
"and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months." [Rev. 9:10]
The tails are symbolic of a "prophet that teaches lies" as that is what the locusts are, false prophets. They have another gospel, a distortion of the true gospel of Christ, that incorporates the doctrine of infernal torment of unbelievers. Centuries of tradition have cemented the concept of unending infernal torment in the minds of many. Their views are not easily discarded.
"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon," [Rev. 9:11]
Abaddon means destroyer, Job 26:6. The effect of the locust plague is that it destroys the church, and obscures the gospel. It paints God as a cruel monster, a fiend.
"and in Greek, Apollyon." [Rev. 9:11]
This probably alludes to Apollo Parnopius, the Greek god of plagues. (Parnopius means "grasshopper.") Apollo was also a god of prophecy.
Doug
Quote from: willieH
FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.
Hmm..
Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the
prophecy of this book. Doug
willieH: Hi Doug... :hithere:
Quote from: Doug on July 31, 2009, 11:58:46 PM
Quote from: willieH
FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.
Hmm..
Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Doug
Thanks Doug... I stand
corrected... Maybe I should have worded my phrase otherwise -- eh? :mblush:
What I meant to say (in better words this time, hopefully), ...is that I believe that the book of the REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST, is not
exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions... It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will... :dontknow:
If ANY of the
REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of Scripture are useless until the END... and have no
benefit to those that live before that "END" comes... And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? :dunno:
I see
PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon
JESUS CHRIST (the
WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...
What IS Prophecy? Yes, ...it
IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction", ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.
The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which
CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"...
The "prediction" of the REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning]
to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...
The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION. For
CHRIST said:
John 5:39 --
Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...
The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is
"to come" -- Still has to do with the
"to come" in each ONE in which He is
REVEALED...
And that is WHY
CHRIST recommended in
John 5:39 -- to search the
OT, for the REVELATION of
JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...
A
TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts...
CHRIST noted the OT as a
TESTIMONY of Himself...
ALL of the notations of the Revelation of
JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)
IMO... each
WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that
WORD is revealed to us... For...
2 Tim 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...
GOD's
WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which
IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.
In the end, I spoke unclearly and apologize for that bumbling... :wacko2: :Violinhit:
I hope this post gives a clearer picture of how I see it (presently/still studying & seeking)... Sorry for the lack of clarification.
...willieH :HeartThrob:
Quote from: willieHwillieH: Hi Doug... hi there
Quote from: Doug
Quote from: willieH
FIRST... I believe the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT a prophetic book.
Hmm..
Revelation 22:7
Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Doug
Thanks Doug... I stand corrected... Maybe I should have worded my phrase otherwise -- eh? blush
What I meant to say (in better words this time, hopefully), ...is that I believe that the book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is not exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions... It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will...
If ANY of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of Scripture are useless until the END... and have no benefit to those that live before that "END" comes... And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? dunno
I see PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon JESUS CHRIST (the WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...
What IS Prophecy? Yes, ...it IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction", ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.
The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"...
The "prediction" of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning] to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...
The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION. For CHRIST said:
John 5:39 -- Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...
JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...
The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is "to come" -- Still has to do with the "to come" in each ONE in which He is REVEALED...
And that is WHY CHRIST recommended in John 5:39 -- to search the OT, for the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...
A TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts... CHRIST noted the OT as a TESTIMONY of Himself...
ALL of the notations of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)
IMO... each WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that WORD is revealed to us... For...
2 Tim 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....
Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...
GOD's WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.
In the end, I spoke unclearly and apologize for that bumbling... wacko Violinhit
I hope this post gives a clearer picture of how I see it (presently/still studying & seeking)... Sorry for the lack of clarification.
Thanks willieH, I agree! :thumbsup:
Peace, Doug
.
QuoteWillieH
.I believe that the book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is not exclusively FUTURE (as "prophetic" is usually understood) in its depictions... It has to do with the PROXIMITY of the individual to whom He is REVEALED (past, present, future)... A "NOW" kind of thing if you will...
If ANY of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, were only pertinent to the END and to those who are in THAT PROXIMITY, ...then those portions of Scripture are useless until the END... and have no benefit to those that live before that "END" comes... And if those portions which are percieved as "end things" within it, do not occur in a given one's lifetime, then wherein is the pertinence and benefit, to that one? dunno
I see PROPHECY as being the REVEALING of the FOREKNOWLEDGE of GOD... that REVEALING is not confined to TIME... (past, present, future), rather is FOCUSED upon JESUS CHRIST (the WORD)... which is REVEALED in ALL Scripture, and which is PERTINENT in ALL "timeframes"...and to ALL within those varying "timeframes"...
What IS Prophecy? Yes, ...it IS a "prediction", ...but "REVELATION" is not JUST a "prediction", ...it is a REVEALING of something that is already THERE... Something REVEALED can be revealed at any moment, to anyone.
The "Prophecy" of this book is concerned with ALL those in which CHRIST is REVEALED... not just those at some distant END of "time"...
The "prediction" of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is NOT about the future, rather it is about the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST from the "alpha" [beginning] to the "omega" [ending] in ALL THINGS...
The (PAST) "OT" is a grouping of writings which are PART of that REVELATION. For CHRIST said:
John 5:39 -- Search the Scriptures [OT] for IN THEM ye think ye have ETERNAL life and THEY are THEY which TESTIFY of [reveal] ME...
JESUS CHRIST is an ETERNAL entity... which IS, ...WAS... and WILL BE... any "prophetic" REVELATION of HIM, must either -- BE ("now"), or ...WAS ("then")... or WILL BE ("to come")...
The idea of the REVELATION as a book which describes the END or what is "to come" -- Still has to do with the "to come" in each ONE in which He is REVEALED...
And that is WHY CHRIST recommended in John 5:39 -- to search the OT, for the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is found THERE as well...
A TESTIMONY is a REVELATION of facts... CHRIST noted the OT as a TESTIMONY of Himself...
ALL of the notations of the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, somehow, and in one way or another, ...have to do with ALL... Otherwise, they are Scripture which is found to be useless to with given individuals and thereby, IMPERTINENT... That is not so (IMO)
IMO... each WORD in the Bible (including ALL Words in the book of Revelation), is applicable to EACH of us... when (according to the choosing in time, by God), ...that WORD is revealed to us... For...
2 Tim 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE [every WORD of it] is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable [to each man] for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the MAN of GOD [each man] be throughly [completely] furnished unto ALL GOOD works....
Which says to me, that ALL Scripture has to do with ME as an individual, and is provided to me by GOD, that as I seek Him, IN IT... He shall REVEAL that which HE decides that I need to know... and makes the entirety of SCRIPTURE (available in "my timeframe") a part of that potential REVELATION...
GOD's WORD is not tied to or confined by, TIME... it is an ETERNAL entity which IS... and it IS pertinent EVERYONE, in EVERY "NOW" in which it IS WRITTEN... and is thereby available -- to them.
Yes, WillieH, I agree.....it is the "revealing" of Christ in You, the Revelation of Jesus Christ......God has to give it to everyone and
perhaps He predicted that He would.
I believe that Revelation was written as a continuous prophecy to what our Lord had spoken of in the Gospels. Jesus said in the Gospels, "the time is at hand", "there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Kingdom of God." These things Jesus let us know were imminent to those who heard His words.
Revelation has the same admonitions. "things that must shortly take place", "for the time is near" "things which must soon take place".
From the preterist view these are the things that happened during the siege of Judah, and Jerusalem around 70AD.
Revelation 9:6 "And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them."Josephus tells us in the book of
The Jewish Wars; Book 5, Chapter 12
Quote"(515) Nor was there any lamentations made under these calamities, nor were heard any mournful complaints; but the famine confounded all natural passions; for those who were just going to die looked upon those that were gone to rest before them with dry eyes and open mouths. A deep silence also, and a kind of deadly night, had seized upon the city; while yet the robbers were still more terrible than these miseries were themselves; (516) for they broke open those houses which were no other than graves of dead bodies, and plundered them of what they had; and carrying off the coverings of their bodies, went out laughing, and tried the points of their sword in their dead bodies; and in order to prove what metal they were made of they thrust some of those through that still lay alive upon the ground; (517) but for those that entreated them to lend them their right hand and their sword to dispatch them, they were too proud to grant their requests, and left them to be consumed by the famine. Now everyone of these died with their eyes fixed upon the temple, and left the rebellious alive behind them."
(emphasis mine)
During the siege, which incidentally took seven years, the bandits within the city burned down the granaries. Famine was widespread while the enemies (Romans) encompassed the city. As Josephus says above, there were those that were just lying on the ground in misery of the famine just asking to be killed to be released from their agony. But the bandits were too proud to allow this and left them to their own slow demise.
Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.
Besides those, H. A. Ironside suggested they represent "occult" movements such as "Eddyism, Spiritism, and Theosophy." He also mentioned the Mormons.
[H. A. Ironside, Lectures on the book of Revelation, Western book & tract co. Oakland, Cal., 1919. p. 157-158]
Don Koenig says: "We can be sure they are demonic beings"
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20chap%209.HTM (http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20chap%209.HTM)
The Bible Knowledge Commentary by John F. Walvoord, & Roy B. Zuck says, p. 952:
"Thus they might be demons who appear in the form of locusts. ... Their demonic control over people was such, however, that though the victims desired to die they could not take their own lives. ... The picture is one of Satan's awesome supernatural power and the demon world especially in relation to unbelievers"
John Darby's Synopsis of the New Testament identifies the locusts with "crowds of moral locusts with the sting of false doctrine in their tail. But it was not to destroy temporal prosperity on the earth, but to torment the ungodly Jews; not to kill, but to harass and vex them."
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/dsn/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=009 (http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/dsn/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=009)
Things to come by J. Dwight Pentecost on p. 362 says: "It is generally conceded that these are not literal locusts in that they do not feed on that which is natural to the locust." He quotes Wm. Kelly, who suggested the first Woe "is emphatically torment from Satan on the reprobate Jews." Pentecost wrote, referring to the two woes described in Rev. 9, "This suggests that the two woes will be marching armies, one against Israel and one against the Gentiles, which will destroy a third of the earth's population."
http://books.google.ca/books?id=2k6jJ12en1cC (http://books.google.ca/books?id=2k6jJ12en1cC)
Discussing dispensationalist views on Rev. 9:7-10, Amy Johnson Frykholm wrote:
Left Behind takes this passage very literally. It depicts insectlike creatures with human faces and long hair, riding horses. But other prophecy writers and prophecy imaginers have gone a bit farther. Hal Lindsey, for example, suggests that the locusts of Revelation could be a first-century attempt to describe and understand the modern invention of an attack helicopter. He suggests that the "locusts" are not literal horses, but modern technology described through a first-century imagination. This obviously requires a leap of imagination that takes the reader far beyond a "literal" understanding of the text. Like the literal interpretation, however, it does the work of correspondence and translation, taking something from the biblical text, coding it within a particular narrative, and then giving it a correspondence to the real world.
[Rapture Culture: Left Behind in Evangelical America, by Amy Johnson Frykholm, Oxford University Press US, 2004. p. 116-117.]
Dr. Stephen R. Sizer comments:
"Using Lindsey's 'Bible Code', the Apostle John's 'locusts' thereby become helicopters, 'horses prepared for battle' are actually heavily armed attack helicopters, 'crowns of gold' are the helmets worn by pilots, and the 'sound of their wings' are the 'thunderous sound of many attack helicopters flying overhead."
The Development of a Literalist Christian Zionist Hermeneutic
http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Sizer07.asp (http://www.christianzionism.org/Article/Sizer07.asp)
On a different forum, someone proposed that the locusts are "pastors," and another person suggested that the 1st woe is "Protestantism."
W. Hengstenberg thought they represent a "hostile devastation" by some invading army.
The Revelation of St John by Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg, p. 432.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=b5UXAAAAYAAJ (http://books.google.ca/books?id=b5UXAAAAYAAJ)
The Critical and Explanatory Commentary on the Whole Bible, by Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown. 1871, says: "The locusts are supernatural instruments in the hands of Satan to torment, and yet not kill, the ungodly"
The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible identifies the locusts with the Muslim religion founded by Mohammed: "Revelation 9:6 The ravages of the Saracens, their incursions, and the invasions by them, struck such terror into the inhabitants of divers parts of the empire, that they made death more eligible to them than life."
On this line, James Burton Coffman noted:
Plummer pointed out that "some scholars apply the symbol (the locusts) to the Muslims"; and the prophecy surely fits that part of history; however, it misses the true identity of the "locust." That was the hell-born idea that Mohammed was a prophet of God! They even had to get a new Bible to go with such a falsehood. As Lenski said, "All that is presented here is only one hellish curse to let loose on the earth."
From James Burton Coffman's Commentaries.
http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/ (http://www.searchgodsword.org/com/bcc/)
Coffman wrote:
As Lenski said, "All that is presented here is only one hellish curse to let loose on the earth." Every generation has its own variety of "locust." It will be seen from these observations that the apparent mildness of the fifth trumpet locusts, in that they were not to "kill" people, but could merely torment them, is applicable only to their first phase. These two trumpets deal with exactly the same phenomenon in successive periods of its development. Note the resemblance of the hellish horsemen to the locusts; they are the "locusts" come of age!
Such locust-lies continually dominate the minds of the wicked. As these lines are being written (December, 1978), the news media are relating the saga of Jim Jones (recommended by the Vice President of the United States), who passed himself off as a Messiah, ending in the suicide-murder massacre of over 900 of his followers in Guyana, South America. The dupes who fell for Jones' lie were indeed deceived by Satan; but before they could swallow his "locust," they had to renounce and deny their Bibles.
"Various kinds of "locusts" are today tormenting people all over the world. Think of Communism, the words of Mao Tse-tung, the emperor cult in Japan, etc. In America, we have our own "locust," which is the falsehood that Uncle Sam can take care of everybody from the cradle to the grave, and that he is also the godfather, benefactor, and policeman of the whole world!
From all of the above, it is clear that indeed the "wings" of the locusts make a loud clattering noise, rather like the noise of chariot wheels going over the streets of ancient cities, which disturbed people who were trying to sleep. But there is not much intelligence in it!
Doug
:cloud9: Amen Willie........the Lord told me years ago that for something to be SPIRIT and therefore LIFE in there, it has to mean the SAME THING to 1st century believers as it does for 21st century believers, because God is no respecter of persons.
But because He is also capable of ministering Truth to all three 'divisions' of peoples as presented by the Tabernacle pattern, it can also minister as literal events in time sometimes, and NEVER LOSE it's SPIRITUAL application that has been provided to build up Christ in those who have been called to perceive it. Blessings....
Quote from: Doug on August 02, 2009, 06:32:11 PM
Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.
Doug
Wow, you have quite a list there. I tend to go with the simplest answer. I would never claim to be the authority on this verse of Revelation but I believe when history confirms a prophetic event it is always wise to give it merit. :Sparkletooth:
Blessings!
Texas Son
Quote from: Texas Son on August 02, 2009
Quote from: Doug on August 02, 2009, 11:32:11 AM
Texas Son thinks the locusts of Rev. 9:1-11 represent "Jews suffering during the siege of Jerusalem." Now I can add that interpretation to my growing list, that includes the view that they are locust-like insects, Muslims, Communism, the emperor cult in Japan, American patriotism, the Jim Jones cult, Protestantism, pastors, helicopters, or "marching armies that torment Jews," or demons.
Doug
Wow, you have quite a list there. I tend to go with the simplest answer. I would never claim to be the authority on this verse of Revelation but I believe when history confirms a prophetic event it is always wise to give it merit.
Hmm... would the suffering of those people due to starvation fit the description of the pain inflicted by the locusts? Suffering due to starvation would become progressively worse, but a scorpion sting is the opposite; "...and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."
The effects of a scorpion sting are described (from various sources) as: "sharp pain, malaise, sweating, heart palpitations, rise in blood pressure, salivation, nausea, vomiting and diarrhoea; irregular eye movements, involuntary thrashing of limbs, breathing difficulties; a feeling like your throat is closing; numbness, tingling; blurring of consciousness, unconsciousness, convulsions, fall in blood pressure, shock and consequently the threat of death."
Doug
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009, 09:58:00 PM
Revelation 9
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
:cloud9: This really blessed me Beloved Servant; you're the first person in 23 years that I have ever heard speak of the bottomless pit this way. The Lord told me years ago that He was the bottomless pit for this reason; Satan can't find any flesh to stand on in Him, which is why He said, the prince of this world cometh and he hath nothing IN ME.
And as for line 7, it's so apparent as we are His goodly horses in the battle He says in a another place, and the High Priest mitre is the crown of gold that the overcomers receive. Good post........ :thumbsup: Blessings.....
Beloved,Cardinal,YES!!!
Think of it...5 months of torment..the demon possessed man
that asked Christ if He had come to torment him before the
appointed time. The association with 'woes' because satan had
been cast out of heaven unto the earth[3 woes] BECAUSE
HE KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT.
Also, John the Baptist [Elijah spirit] eating LOCUSTS and
HONEY...speaking to those who came unto him..to offspring of
vipers ' who warned you to flee from the coming wrath'?
the VOICE OF ONE CALLING OUT IN THE WILDERNESS
PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE LORD
I baptize you with water for repentance.BUT AFTER ME WILL
COME ONE WHO IS MORE POWERFUL THAN ME
WHOSE SANDALS I AM NOT FIT TO CARRY
HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE
HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR
HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN
AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE
BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD,WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF
THE WORLD!
Quote from: sheila
HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE
HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR
HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN
AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE
John wrote, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." [1 John 4:1]
Let's look at the post by Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009 and see if it stands up to scrutiny.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
Revelation 9
1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth ( Christ ) : and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit ( The manifested Sons ).
Christ is not a star that falls from heaven to the earth! That's what he said of Satan: "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." [Luke 10:18]
What scripture identifies the bottomless pit with "The manifested Sons"?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
2And he opened the bottomless pit ( The Sons ); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace ( The Spirit without measure ) ; and the sun and the air ( what flesh needs to sustain itself ) were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
What scripture identifies the bottomless pit with "The Sons"? What scripture suggests the Holy Spirit is pictured by smoke of a great furnace coming out of "the bottomless pit"? The sun is identified with the gospel in scripture; it is the sun that clothes the woman in heaven, Rev. 12:1.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power ( The Sons ).
Where are scorpions identified with "The Sons" in scripture? A scripture that does seem relevant is 1 Kings 12:11, where the threat of the young king was "I will chastise you with scorpions." So they are associated with chastisement.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree ( young in Christ ); but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
What scripture suggests the trees of this verse mean "young in Christ"?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months ( 4+1= creation with Him ): and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
I don't see how "tormented five months" means "4+1= creation with Him." Maybe I missed something. What does it mean? Is there a scripture that supports it?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them ( They long for the ignorance of their old ways ).
Christians may lapse back into sin; Peter wrote:
2 Peter 2:22
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
To say "death shall flee from them" seems an odd way to express the idea Peter so plainly stated.
Another figure in scripture that represents this is stars being drawn by the tail of the dragon, and cast to the earth, Rev. 12:4. I believe it refers to believers who return to the world, and to bondage to sin.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 31, 2009
7And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Peter said, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." [Peter 1:20] I take this to mean we ought to avoid making up our own interpretations and instead look for what the scripture itself says about the symbols used in prophecy.
Doug
Hi Doug;
For every GOOD AND POSITIVE OF GOD, Satan offers
his perverted negative..apostles/false apostles...Prince of
peace/prince of the air. ....Abrahams seed are as the sands of
the sea and as of the stars of heaven..the wise men saw
Jesus 'star' and new a KING had been born...HE [Jesus] has the
keys...." and I hold the keys of death and Hades"
Matthew 12;11 If any of you has a sheep and it falls
in to a pit[or abyss?]on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of
it and lift it out? The sun turns black as sackcloth and the
moon to blood[especially when smoke like that of a great
furnance affects them/ don't forgot the smoke on the Mountain
with Moses in God's presence..or the smoke of GOD'S GLORY
FILLING THE TEMPLE
the 'sting' is like scorpions..in bringing much 'torment'
the 'torment' is the sting of truth to the kingdom of
Darkness,that their 'time' is short....tails like serpents..
hmmmm seems Moses had a rod that turned into a serpent
when needed.to swallow up the serpent the TRUTH HURTS!!!
..
o' death where is your sting.?..He is basically 'stinging' the
kingdom of darkness/death...o'death I shall be thy PLAGUES.
all flesh is as grass...but beware there are snakes in the grass
and this 'sting/torment' is for them...and men of faith are
trees of righteousness...even though there be a snake hanging
in the branches. for 'cursed' is everthing that hangs on a tree
But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,
[all men are ELECTED by GOD TO ETERNAL LIFE]
Adam lived 930 years in this corruption..God has 'cut' down
the time we spend here....120 years at one time..then further
cut down to 70.
He said 'for I will not always strive with flesh,lest the spirit
fail before me"
Quote from: sheila on August 08, 2009, 11:08:02 PM
But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened,
[all men are ELECTED by GOD TO ETERNAL LIFE]
Adam lived 930 years in this corruption..God has 'cut' down
the time we spend here....120 years at one time..then further
cut down to 70.
He said 'for I will not always strive with flesh,lest the spirit
fail before me"
Amen, sister Sheila.
Hey Doug, you wrote.......
Christ is not a star that falls from heaven to the earth!
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.rev 22.16
For God sent not his Son into the world................john3.17
I like seeing Scripture through spirit eyes the best.
I see Jesus as a star coming down to earth.
cp
Quote from: sheila on August 08, 2009, 07:06:14 PM
Beloved,Cardinal,YES!!!
Think of it...5 months of torment..the demon possessed man
that asked Christ if He had come to torment him before the
appointed time. The association with 'woes' because satan had
been cast out of heaven unto the earth[3 woes] BECAUSE
HE KNOWS HIS TIME IS SHORT.
Also, John the Baptist [Elijah spirit] eating LOCUSTS and
HONEY...speaking to those who came unto him..to offspring of
vipers ' who warned you to flee from the coming wrath'?
the VOICE OF ONE CALLING OUT IN THE WILDERNESS
PREPARE THE WAY FOR THE LORD
I baptize you with water for repentance.BUT AFTER ME WILL
COME ONE WHO IS MORE POWERFUL THAN ME
WHOSE SANDALS I AM NOT FIT TO CARRY
HE WILL BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE
HIS WINNOWING FORK IS IN HIS HAND,AND HE WILL CLEAR
HIS THRESHING FLOOR,GATHERING HIS WHEAT INTO THE BARN
AND BURNING UP THE CHAFF WITH UNQUENCHABLE FIRE
BEHOLD! THE LAMB OF GOD,WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF
THE WORLD!
:cloud9: WOW, Sheila..........I had to read this 3 times to 'hear' it...........AWESOME.......hope you will expand some more on this........loved the next 2 also. Blessings....
Quote from: sheila on August 08, 2009, 10:49:20 PM
Hi Doug;
For every GOOD AND POSITIVE OF GOD, Satan offers
his perverted negative..apostles/false apostles...Prince of
peace/prince of the air. ....Abrahams seed are as the sands of
the sea and as of the stars of heaven..the wise men saw
Jesus 'star' and new a KING had been born...HE [Jesus] has the
keys...." and I hold the keys of death and Hades"
Matthew 12;11 If any of you has a sheep and it falls
in to a pit[or abyss?]on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of
it and lift it out? The sun turns black as sackcloth and the
moon to blood[especially when smoke like that of a great
furnance affects them/ don't forgot the smoke on the Mountain
with Moses in God's presence..or the smoke of GOD'S GLORY
FILLING THE TEMPLE
the 'sting' is like scorpions..in bringing much 'torment'
the 'torment' is the sting of truth to the kingdom of
Darkness,that their 'time' is short....tails like serpents..
hmmmm seems Moses had a rod that turned into a serpent
when needed.to swallow up the serpent the TRUTH HURTS!!!
..
o' death where is your sting.?..He is basically 'stinging' the
kingdom of darkness/death...o'death I shall be thy PLAGUES.
all flesh is as grass...but beware there are snakes in the grass
and this 'sting/torment' is for them...and men of faith are
trees of righteousness...even though there be a snake hanging
in the branches. for 'cursed' is everthing that hangs on a tree
:cloud9: AMEN...... :thumbsup: Blessings....
Quote from: claypot
Hey Doug, you wrote.......
Christ is not a star that falls from heaven to the earth!
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright, the morning star.rev 22.16
For God sent not his Son into the world................john3.17
I like seeing Scripture through spirit eyes the best.
I see Jesus as a star coming down to earth.
cp
Hi CP;
This is a no-brainer. I think it dishonors Christ to say he is the star that falls to the earth! Look up some of the scriptures that contain the word "fall."
2 Kings 10:10 - Know now that there shall
fall unto the earth nothing of the
word of the LORDMatthew 10:29 - Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not
fall on the ground without your Father.
Luke 6:39 - Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both
fall into the ditch?
Luke 14:5 - an ass or an ox
falls into a pit James 5:12 - lest ye
fall into condemnation.
Revelation 12:4 - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did
cast them to the earth:
Christ may be a star, and he may be coming to the earth, but not by a "
fall."
Doug
alittle more[so hard to put into words]
the crowns on their heads are the crown of life..for MAN is
God's GLORY AND THE WOMAN IS MAN'S GLORY[GOD AND MAN
GLORIFIED]AND THE WOMAN'S HAIR IS HER GLORY[given by
God for a covering/Glory]
Jesus is the LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH
O'death I will be thy destruction...Love is as strong as DEATH
I will ransom them from the power of the grave, Where o'
grave is your destruction?
HE WILL SWALLOW UP DEATH FOREVER[Isaaih 25;8]
the Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears from all faces,
He will remove the disgrace of His people from off the earth
He rides WHITE HORSES into spiritual battle...
the Egyptians horses are but flesh
This is what your Sovereign Lord says, Your God who defends
His people. See, I have taken out of your hand the cup that
made you stagger,from that cup, the goblet of my wrath,you
will never drink again. I will put it in the hand of your tormentors
who said to you, 'fall prostrate that we may[trample] walk over
you.[see the 'time' of the tormentors torment]
WHAT GOD IS ABOUT TO DO,WILL MAKE HIS DELIVERANCE
OF HIS PEOPLE FROM EGYPT SEEM MINUTE. REMEMBER THE
PLAGUES WORKED AGAINST PHAROAH? AND THE "LET MY
PEOPLE GO?"Plagues worked to free slaves of sin.
He is about to deliver all His children from spiritual Egypt and
Sodom, and Babylon.To the true PROMISED LAND/KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN.
What He did and worked in those previous
deliverances will pale in comparison to what is coming !!!!
NOW IS QUICKLY APPROACHING
Rev 11[secound woe passed/third woe coming
The seventh angel sounded his trumpet[judgement]
The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of
Our Lord and His Christ,and he will reign forever,and ever
We give thanks to you,Lord God Almighty, the one who is and
who was,because YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR GREAT POWER AND
BEGUN TO REIGN
The nations were angry and your wrath has come. The time
has come for JUDGING THE DEAD and for rewarding your
servants the prophets,and your saints,and those who reverance
your name-both small and great-
AND FOR DESTROYING THOSE WHO DESTROY THE EARTH
[the DESTROYER COMES TO DESTROY THE DESTROYER]
Our deliverance draws nigh
the PROMISED SEED HAD TO FALL TO THE EARTH AND DIE TO
BEAR FRUIT UNTO HEAVEN.....and this is all the fruit...
to take away all their sin
Jesus didn't 'fall'--he made himself of no reputation, took upon himself the form of a servant, and humbled himself. That is not a fall. That is a choice.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
--Phil 2
John 12;24
'....I tell you the truth, unless a kernal of wheat falls to the
ground and dies.it remains only a single seed. But if it dies,
it produces many seeds'
the Good seed is the wheat that God sows[it falls to the
earth].....
there is another that falls from heaven...but it is not sown by
God...Jesus spoke of this in the parable of the wheat and
tares. Again for every positive of God, there is a perverted
negative of the adversary.
Fall is not negative of itself..we can 'fall down and worship at
His feet' on the earth as God's footstool, or fall down and
worship the image of the beast.
fall..to pass down freely, to descend, to become of lower
degree
Quote from: sheila on August 09, 2009, 08:05:41 AM
John 12;24
'....I tell you the truth, unless a kernal of wheat falls to the
ground and dies.it remains only a single seed. But if it dies,
it produces many seeds'
the Good seed is the wheat that God sows[it falls to the
earth].....
there is another that falls from heaven...but it is not sown by
God...Jesus spoke of this in the parable of the wheat and
tares. Again for every positive of God, there is a perverted
negative of the adversary.
Fall is not negative of itself..we can 'fall down and worship at
His feet' on the earth as God's footstool, or fall down and
worship the image of the beast.
fall..to pass down freely, to descend, to become of lower
degree
Exactly what I was thinking, Sheila. Exactly. The seed falls into the ground. It was sent from heaven to earth. It was sown by God.
Now I am seeing something else because of this. Satan also 'fell' from the heights. The mind of man became corrupted, it fell. The conditions were perfect for this to happen. The perfect storm idea. Who creates the conditions in which all things occur?
cp
Quote from: sheila on August 09, 2009, 06:51:15 AM
WHAT GOD IS ABOUT TO DO,WILL MAKE HIS DELIVERANCE
OF HIS PEOPLE FROM EGYPT SEEM MINUTE. REMEMBER THE
PLAGUES WORKED AGAINST PHAROAH? AND THE "LET MY
PEOPLE GO?"Plagues worked to free slaves of sin.
He is about to deliver all His children from spiritual Egypt and
Sodom, and Babylon.To the true PROMISED LAND/KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN.
What He did and worked in those previous
deliverances will pale in comparison to what is coming !!!!
NOW IS QUICKLY APPROACHING
:cloud9: AMEN to all you have written here Sheila, but ESPECIALLY this at this time. We worship You, Father! Blessings...
The question in this thread is about the meaning of Rev. 9:6, "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."
This prophecy is referring to the essence of the idea of eternal torment of unbelievers, which has been the orthodox doctrine in Christendom for centuries. Below is a quote from Edward White's
Life in Christ [Elliot Stock, 62 Paternoster Row, London, 1875]. White was a minister in London in the 2nd half of the nineteenth century and Chairman of the Congregational Union in 1886.
It is the idea of unending torment of souls, a great "torment" that affects men, and has done so for centuries in the past, that was foretold by John's prophecy of the locust plague, called "the first Woe."
Quote
Mr. Spurgeon, whose opinions represent in the most vigorous form, and with striking sincerity, the theology of the middle and lower classes of England, does not hesitate to hold before his hearers a prospect of endless physical agony:--
'Only conceive that poor wretch in the flames, who is saying, "O for one drop of water to cool my parched tongue! "See how his tongue hangs from between his blistered lips! How it excoriates and burns the roof of his mouth, as if it were a firebrand! Behold him crying for a drop of water. I will not picture the scene. Suffice it for me to close up by saying, that the hell of hells will be to thee, poor sinner, the thought that it is to be for ever. Thou wilt look up there on the throne of God,-- and on it shall be written, "For ever!" When the damned jingle the burning irons of their torments, they shall say "For ever!" When they howl, echo cries, "For ever!"
"'For ever' is written on their rocks,'
'For ever' on their chains;'
'For ever' burneth in the fire,'
'For ever' ever reigns."
Doleful thought! "If I could but get out, then I should be happy." "If there were a hope of deliverance, then I might be peaceful; but here I am for ever! "Sirs! if ye would escape eternal torments, if ye would be found amongst the number of the blessed, the road to heaven can only be found by prayer,' etc.-- Sermon preached in 1855.
The sting of the locusts is compared to the sting of a scorpion, only the pain is emotional and spiritual. The 5 months of torment links the prophecy to the flood of Noah; the waters prevailed for 150 days, Gen. 7:24. Within that time, "every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." [vs. 23]
Instead of dying, the doctrine of unending infernal torment says the unsaved suffer as described above by Mr. Spurgeon. That, I suggest, is what Rev. 9:6 depicts. Below is another graphic description of the suffering of the unsaved by a Roman Catholic, that is provided by White.
Quote
A still more graphic style of representation is common among Roman Catholic preachers. Those who believe in the beneficial effect of pictorial horrors on young and ignorant people might take a lesson from the religious manuals of the Roman priests. Mr. Lecky quotes the following, in his History of European Morals, from a Tract 'for children and young persons,' called The Sight of Hell, by Rev. J. Furniss; published "permissu superiorum," by Duffy (London and Dublin). It is a detailed description of the dungeons of hell:--
'See on the middle of that red-hot floor stands a girl: she looks about sixteen years old. Her feet are bare. Listen; she speaks "I have been standing on this red-hot floor for years! Look at my burnt and bleeding feet! Let me go off this burning floor for one moment! "The fifth dungeon is the red-hot oven. The little child is in the red-hot oven. Hear how it screams to come out; see how it turns and twists itself about in the fire. It beats its head against the roof of the oven. It stamps its little feet on the floor. God was very good to this little child. Very likely God saw it would get worse and worse, and would never repent, and so it would have to be punished more severely in hell. So God in His mercy called it out of the world in early childhood.'
All this, says Mr. Furniss, is to last for ever.
Doug
Doug,
No doubt ET is a horrible doctrine of demons that have
used this to afflict mankind[God's children] and torment then.
However, what I am speaking about is the time of the
tormentors torment that is brought about by the locust plague.
You will note that God instructs Babylon to receive double for
all the evil she did.the Plagues are her torment,along with
satan knowing his time is short. The unjust judgement she
and the kingdom of darkness put on mankind will be theirs,
they are the ones that will be eternally cut off
You will note that the locust do not hurt or go near to afflict
those that have the seal of God. All mankind are 'sealed' for
salvation, due to be opened and testified ,and are hidden in
Christ.
All the plagues[including the locusts] are aimed at the
Kingdom of darkness, to loosen it's hold on mankind.For
deliverance for rethinking[repentance of mind to those blinded
by it,and under it's hold]
A doctrine is spoken of devils[such as ET] and their tongue
rots while they are speaking[dead flesh without spirit of God]
Birds come and eat[vultures] the dead flesh[where the
carcass is there the vultures will be gathered.]
The TRUTH these locust speak of[ babylons fall,coming
judgements,prince of the air destroyed,son of perdition to be
done away with] is a plague and torment mentally as to what
is about to take place.
I hope this clears up any mis-understandings.
Men pray for death and will not find it, it is very true that
the doctrine of ET does do that to mankind[I have actually
expierenced that very thing] And it is horrible, however I was
delivered by a locust who stung the kingdom of darkness
in this very matter..We will not find death because the
commandment is unto life.[the doctrine/lie] is what is due to
die..and the Father of the lie with it. Our covenant with death
is annulled[joined to the spirit of rebellion/slander of God's
truth] We are married to our rightful/legal husband/Shiloh/truth
We have all been robbed [mankind] of the truth/life that is
ours in our Father, and been sorely mistreated and manipulated
by the Kingdom of Darkness....Jesus will steal back any child
that has fallen prey to them.[I come as a theif]
Sheila
:cloud9: Wonderful Sheila.......AMEN..........Blessings....
Quote from: sheila
You will note that the locust do not hurt or go near to afflict
those that have the seal of God. All mankind are 'sealed' for
salvation, due to be opened and testified ,and are hidden in
Christ.
In the context of the prophecy of the first "woe," the locusts hurt "only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
If all men knew that Christ is "the Saviour of all men," I suppose there would be no one who the locusts could hurt. :Sparkletooth:
In Revelation, the sealing of God's saints is described in Rev. 7:1-8. The 144,000 who are sealed are the ones later described standing with Christ on Mount Zion; they are the temple of God today, the individuals in whom He dwells by His Spirit. They are included in the 12 tribes of Israel, 12,000 in each tribe, many having been "grafted in" from the nations as Paul described in Romans 11. And there is no guile in them; they are spiritually "virgins" as they do not seduce anyone by teaching false doctrine. They "follow the Lamb wherever he goeth; These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." [Rev. 14:4]
The ones who are "sealed" are the "firstfruits," which implies there are more to follow later. And there is another group described in Rev. 7:9-17, "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues."
Only the relatively few are sealed, as the number 144,000 implies; it is much fewer than the 200 million mentioned in Rev. 9:16, for example, although I consider these numbers to be symbolic, rather than literal. Some scriptures that tell us about the nature of the seal of God are: Rom. 8:7-9, 2 Cor. 1:21-23, Eph. 1:12-14, Eph. 4:29-32, 2 Tim. 2:19. The seal is the Spirit of Christ.
Doug
Hi Doug,
every human has a son of God and a son of
perdition,wheat/tare
the locusts only torment the son of perdition.
those on Mt Zion are 'opened'; in other words Christ has
opened the sealing on His Word in them. The others are
sealed but not opened at that time.Opening the scriptures
or opening their understanding
Like a deed to a land placed in a claypot is the sealing of the
Holy spirit in the sons of God. The revealing of Christ to
these,and the opening of them is the revealing of the Sons of
God also.
The only one lost is the son of perdition,as was illustrated
by Judas when satan entered him to betray Christ. We see
further as to the identity of the man of lawlessness where it
is shown he was a theif. This theiving spirit would put to
death the sons of God for mammon .
The woes are because satan is thrown down from heaven
when this opening of the 'word' or Christ unsealing them is
done. Satan in not able to mislead with false doctrine anymore
and woe to the earth because he knows his time is short.
Ths saints expierence an all out attack from the kingdom of
darkness against their flesh at this time ..to try and sweep her
away and overcome her. They use the man of sin in others to
launch this attack, and the sin in our own flesh also,at times
When the dragon saw he had been hurled to the earth,he
pursued the woman. He wars against the testimony of truth.
You have seen this, when the salvation of all mankind is
spoken, our brothers bound by satan and not opened in
understanding yet, are used as dupes to fight against it.
Each man of sin will turn upon one another in fleshly warfare
Muslims and Jews are two examples of this. This is in response
to Christ's returning to begin His reign and the Kingdoms of
darkness due to lose their reign[remember satan offering all the
kingdoms of the world for one act]
There are both woes to babylon and woes to the earth due to
this spiritual warfare. It is a tribulating time. Pateint endurance
is called for on the part of the saints.
Sheila
p.s.
Jesus and God and the angels and the locust KNOW that
Christ is the saviour of all men. The blinded son may not be
aware of it yet.
Thanks, Sheila
Quote from: sheila on August 08, 2009
alittle more[so hard to put into words]
the crowns on their heads are the crown of life..for MAN is
God's GLORY AND THE WOMAN IS MAN'S GLORY[GOD AND MAN
GLORIFIED]AND THE WOMAN'S HAIR IS HER GLORY[given by
God for a covering/Glory]
Rev. 9:7
... and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
Crowns are symbolic of authority. Many denominations and sects claim to be the
one true church, and this belief provides priests and ministers with an enormous power and influence over the members. The locusts make use of the doctrine of unending infernal torment to generate fear in their followers, who view their leaders as holy men. Many church leaders view that doctrine as essential.
Doug
:cloud9: I can so see what you're saying Sheila.......thanks........Blessings....
Quote from: sheila on August 09, 2009, 04:07:42 PM
The TRUTH these locust speak of[ babylons fall,coming
judgements,prince of the air destroyed,son of perdition to be
done away with] is a plague and torment mentally as to what
is about to take place.
I hope this clears up any mis-understandings.
The locusts of John's prophecy are those who have the true word of God, but have failed to comprehend it, or corrupted it. This is true in most of the 38,000 Christian denominations, where unbelievers are said to end up in hell and suffer endless torment. We can see this depicted in John's prophecy of the 3rd trumpet too.
3rd trumpetRev. 8:10-11
And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.The 3rd angel affects fountains and rivers. The fountain that is available to the house of David, and the river of living waters flowing from Jerusalem, in the prophecies of Zechariah, represent the word of God flowing like a river from the church to the world.
Zech. 13:1
In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zech. 14:8
And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
God is called the "fountain of living waters" in Jer. 2:13 and in Jer. 17:13.
Alexander wrote: "The reversion of the lifegiving Gospel fountains to death-dealing bitter waters, takes place whenever the lifegiving doctrines of divine grace are corrupted by apostate and carnal religion." [
Revelation Spiritually Understood, by Charles D. Alexander, http://www.allbygrace.com/alexrevelationmainpage.html (http://www.allbygrace.com/alexrevelationmainpage.html)]
The star which fell from heaven has been identified with various Christian teachers, such as Origen (as Luther thought) or Pelagius. Other suggestions are the devil, Lucifer, or Atilla the Hun. Rivers, and fountains represent the teachings that come from the church. Wormwood seems to picture an attitude of bitterness or rebellion (Lit. hemlock etc.)
Hengstenberg wrote, "The star, burning like a torch and named Wormwood, forms here a contrast to the wood with which Moses, as a type of Jesus the Saviour, made the bitter water sweet, just as in ver. 8, 9, the great mountain burning with fire forms the contrast to the mighty life-stream of Ezekiel. For his own people God makes the bitter waters sweet, for the world he makes the sweet waters bitter." [
The Revelation of St John v. 1, by Ernst Wilhelm Hengstenberg, T. & T. Clark, 1852. p. 422. http://books.google.ca/books?jtp=420&id=b5UXAAAAYAAJ (http://books.google.ca/books?jtp=420&id=b5UXAAAAYAAJ)]
Paul viewed the waters that the Israelites drank as symbolic, or typical; "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." [1 Cor. 10:4]
Waters picture the word of God; the scriptures were turned bitter, because of the scientific revolution and the enlightenment; the cosmology of scripture had been corrupted in the hellenistic era; scientific discoveries made scripture appear to support a flawed cosmology. This was followed by an era of critical scholarship, by which the bitterness was intensified.
Ezekiel wrote about the shepherds, who polluted the waters and the pasture of the sheep: "Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet." [Ezek. 34:18-19]
Doug
eating the scroll..or prophesying again.....the word of God
is like honey in the mouth,but turns John's belly bitter.
true words of God sweet and bitter to John
It is because of the sweet/blessings/promises to the child of
God in each human, and the bitter judgement that goes to the
man of sin in each human. Bitter herbs were eaten along with
the Lamb of passover/symbolizing the bitterness of slavery to
sin in Egypt/this world.
the water to wine[sweet] to the child of God in each of us
water to blood /death to the man of sin in each of us.
thus the aroma of death to death for the man of sin
but life to life to the child of God
It was really a matter of people mis-applying the wrath
scriptures to mankind instead of to the kingdom of darkness
the bitter is the curse/wrath judgements against the man of
sin. For the judgement/wrath of God was cursed is the
serpent and cursed is the earth on account of Adam.
the ground would bring forth thorns and briars..and be fit for
burning/destruction to kill the tare seeds/death of the ,man of
sin in us
and the promised seed was also sown in the earth/ground.
We undergo all this expierence
there is a time..when there is no more curse...when the
judgements of God are finished/ the child of God is perfected
the tares have been bundled and burned and the wheat
gathered in[harvest of the earth] the man of sin cut off
we pick up our own cross,in the likeness of Christ,as we bear
judgemnt/putting to death of sin in our flesh,also
the many men who die are the sons of perdition in each of us
the outer court third that are not measured[have not the
spirit] that trample[the Grace of God]
the two wittness have power to turn the water into blood
and work all these plagues..these are worked against the son
of perdition in all of us....because these two prophets had
tormented those who live on the earth. The judgement on the
man of sin,/death/everlasting cutting off is what 'tormented'
them. The Word of truth the two wittnesses spoke'were as
plagues and torments to the kingdom of darkness..just as
in Moses day. All this is a work done of deliverance for
HIS PEOPLE FROM BONDAGE TO THE KINGDOM OF DARKNESS
Yes, the Kingdom of Darkness has tormented,mocked the
children of God ....but look! Isaaih 37;22 The virgin daughter
of Zion despises and mocks you.The daughter of Jerusalem
tosses her head as you flee.Who is it you have insulted and
blasphemed? Against whom have you raised your voice, and
lifted your eyes in pride? Against the Holy One of Israel .
And this.....1Kings 18;27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them
.....then Elijah said to all the people,'Come here to me'...
then Elijah commanded them....Seize the prophets of Baal..
don't let anyone get away! they seized them and Elijah had
them brought down to the Kishon valley and slaughtered there.
now that the people had confessed that the Lord alone was
God,Elijah prayed for the covenant curse to be lifted.
Rev11;6 these men have power to shut up the sky,so that it
will not rain during the time of their prophesying.
the spiritual warfare continues.....
:cloud9: And again I say AMEN........we are to look inward FIRST, for judgment BEGINS in the house of the Lord, whose 'house' we are. Blessings....
'I kill[death of the man of sin]
and I make alive[the son of God]
He does this work in all of us.
we are wonderfully and fearfully made
Quote from: sheila on August 10, 2009, 10:09:59 AM
Yes, the Kingdom of Darkness has tormented,mocked the
children of God ....but look! Isaaih 37;22 The virgin daughter
of Zion despises and mocks you.The daughter of Jerusalem
tosses her head as you flee.Who is it you have insulted and
blasphemed? Against whom have you raised your voice, and
lifted your eyes in pride? Against the Holy One of Israel .
And this.....1Kings 18;27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them
.....then Elijah said to all the people,'Come here to me'...
then Elijah commanded them....Seize the prophets of Baal..
don't let anyone get away! they seized them and Elijah had
them brought down to the Kishon valley and slaughtered there.
now that the people had confessed that the Lord alone was
God,Elijah prayed for the covenant curse to be lifted.
Rev11;6 these men have power to shut up the sky,so that it
will not rain during the time of their prophesying.
the spiritual warfare continues.....
How does this relate to the prophecy of the locust plague?
Hmm... "the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle" [Rev. 9:7]
Joel wrote, "The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run." [Joel 2:4]
In scripture, horses and mules are those with no understanding. "Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee." [Psa. 32:9]
A locust plague has a vast number of individual locusts. In Joel 2:2, they are "a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."
Locusts destroy the pasture; they eat up all the grass. The pasture is the food for the sheep. "The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted:" [Joel 1:10]
The "grain" in the NT is the word of God. Jesus said, "The seed is the word of God." [Luke 8:11]
"The seed is rotten under their clods" [Joel 1:17]
The word of God is made ineffective, and rots in the ground (the hearers of the word, Luke 8:8), because of the locusts. Isn't that true today? Flawed interpretations of prophecy have caused the word of God to "rot" in the hearts of many. For example, consider the failed predictions of the dispensationalists, in the past century, who misinterpret prophecy. They adore and swoon over the racist Zionist state in Palestine, armed with nuclear weapons, which they think somehow fulfills prophecy. But those Jews have not returned to Christ. Some dispensationalists think the USA should contribute to Israel's "defense," and they lobby for a preemptive attack on Iran! They encourage the immigration of Russian Jews to populate the stolen lands. Is that Christian? No! Rather, is spiritual "fornication", IMO!
The Preterists are similar, as they deny prophecy applies to us today, and try to cram all of it into 70 AD. Both of these groups "kill" the message of the prophets about the church today.
Joel's prophecy is about the lack of spiritual nourishment for the saints; "How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate." [Joel 1:18]
Joel said of the locusts, "They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief." False prophets are thieves, as they take away the promises of God meant for us.
The locusts obscure the Gospel: "the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:" The sun represents the Gospel; it clothes the woman in heaven, Rev. 12:1. The sun is made dark because the locusts (especially the ones described in Rev. 9:1-11) proclaim the doctrine of an immortal soul, and unending infernal torment of unbelievers.
Locusts are people who need to repent! "Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil." [Joel 2:12-13]
Doug
Doug
I beleive we are differing in outlook on this because I see all
the Plagues worked to deliver the people from the false
lying spirits[shepherds] Plagues on the pastures of the false
shepherd,locust destroying what the false shepherds are
pasturing the people on[grass/flesh]
These torments are on lying Babylons religious system.No
doubt organized religions of Babylon's people are spiritually
starving.pastures devastated
I see all these plagues as if He was working to release His
people from bondage.Certainly Egypt was devastated
Plague of darkness,plague of locusts,plague of boils,plague of
hail,plague of livestock,plague of flies,gnats,frogs,blood.
and finally,death of firstborn
All these are worked against the source of bondage of His
people...Jesus said..if they are not against us..they are for us.
Let my people GO..these literal plagues upon Pharoah,finally
resulted in Pharoah letting loose of them.
These plagues are worked against Babylon and prince of this
world. They are spiritually fulfilled now. Hail..cold hard
facts/truth from heaven to devastate lies.
Locusts..prepare ye the way of the Lord/REPENT=rethink
honey=true words of God...behold the Lamb of God that takes
away the sin of the world...what is this sin, what is the error?
see John [the locust] sting those without the seal'ye offspring
of viper,who showed you how to escape the coming wrath'
that sting of rebuke was to the offspring of viper..the very ones
that were of anti-Christ.no seal of the Holy spirit..Certainly
John the Baptist was a spiritual plague to Herod,in a manner
a spiritual vexation and stinging of truth and rebuke[did he
not reveal the lawless one in Herod?]
Christ
came to deliver and save the people and judge the prince of
this world. This is the occurrance of the plagues,both literal
and spiritual fulfillment.
Enmity of the promised seed and the seed of the serpent
continues.
All of Revelations is the REVEALING OF CHRIST and
deliverance of the peoples from the Kingdom of darkness
and judgement upon the Kingdom of Darkness, I know we can
both agree on that, so I will leave it at that.
Blessings,brother
Quote from: DougJoel said of the locusts, "They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief."
Revelation 9:3
And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.[TechScope]
As Robots Get Smaller, Potential Applications Get Bigger An emerging generation of microbots promises to explore new frontiers in medicine, security, and other fields. But designers must first overcome challenging device movement, control, and power issues.
John Edwards |October 10, 2008
Step inside the Laboratory of Intelligent Systems at the Ecole Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne in Lausanne, Switzerland. Here, in a country perhaps best known for its fine chocolates and wristwatches, engineers
are building awesome robots with formidable powers. But you may have to squint a little to see them at work, because the Swiss bots can be kind of hard to see.
"Each is about the size of a locust," explains Miko Kovac, the machines' creator.
Unlike the thundering, lumbering monsters that staggered through several decades' worth of science fiction novels, comic books, and movies, these 21st century robots are so small, they can slip between a user's fingers—or pass through the eye of a needle. Like circuits and SUVs, robots are getting downsized. The result is a rapidly growing number of handy helpers designed to accomplish tasks in medicine, security, and several other fields that are too difficult or dangerous for people or even larger robots to tackle.
"We're making robots that are tiny, nimble, and fearless," Kovac says.
Yet as robots get increasingly minuscule and versatile, their creators are encountering challenges in controlling, moving, and powering their creations.
"When you get down to the microbot level, many conventional technologies go out the window," says Randall Shumaker, director of the Institute for Simulation and Training at the University of Central Florida. "In many different areas, because of the size scale involved, you have to come up with entirely new ways of doing things."
Microbots in Motion
Like other microbot developers, Kovac believes the technology's greatest potential lies in its ability to explore places that are too cramped or otherwise inaccessible to humans, animals, or conventionally sized robots. But simply getting tiny bots into the places where they are needed is sizing up as a major challenge for developers, since intricate walking- and wheel-based locomotion technologies are difficult to achieve on a micro or smaller scale.
Microbot researchers are addressing this problem with a variety of different and innovative approaches. Kovac's solution was to develop
a bot that jumps like a grasshopper (Fig. 1). His prototype weighs just 7 g, but it can leap 1.4 m—more than 27 times its body size.
"That's 10 times farther for its size and weight than any existing jumping robot," says Kovac, who is developing
the robotic bug as his PhD project. He observes that his "biomimetic" jumping technology is unique, since it allows the microbot
to travel over the kinds of rough terrain that would block most walking or wheeled devices. Small jumping animals, such as fleas,
locusts, grasshoppers, and frogs, use elastic storage mechanisms to slowly charge and quickly release their jumping energy, Kovac explains. In this way, they can achieve very powerful jumps and very high accelerations. Kovac's jumping robot
uses the same basic principle, charging a pair of torsion springs via a small 0.6-g pager motor and a cam.
To be able to optimize the jumping performance, the legs can be adjusted for jumping force, takeoff angle, and force profile during the acceleration phase. Kovac notes that
his bot could be fitted with tiny sensors to allow it to explore rough, inaccessible terrain or to aid in search and rescue operations.
Duke University researchers are also taking a mechanical approach to microlocomotion, though on an even smaller scale than Kovac's machine. The Duke engineers are developing tiny bots that are designed to roam inside a laboratory-on-a-chip to perform various experimental and housekeeping tasks. Each microrobot resembles a kitchen spatula, but with dimensions measuring just microns (Fig. 2).
"We're talking about robots that are invisible to the unaided human eye," says Bruce Donald, a Duke computer science and biochemistry professor.
Helping the microbots get around, a "scratch-drive" motion actuator enables the devices to propel themselves across surfaces in inchworm-like fashion. The microrobots advance in steps measuring only 10 to 20 billionths of a meter. On the other hand,
their pace is blazingly fast. "Little steps can add up very quickly, especially when they're repeated at up to 20,000 times per second," Donald says.
Cornell University researchers are also looking to nature to uncover ways of moving microbots quickly, accurately, and efficiently. Working on a scale that makes using conventional electronics impossible, the team has turned to biological chemistry for inspiration and is looking at sperm cells, of all things, as a potential propulsion model.
Sperm cells move with the help of a wiggling flagella, a tail-like structure that propels the cell forward (Fig. 3). Alexander Travis, a Cornell assistant professor of reproductive biology, believes that the same chemical energy that moves sperm cells can be used to drive nanoscale robots.
"We're interested in creating an energy delivery to power nanoscale robots," he says. "The approach works well in nature, so there's no reason to believe that it won't work with nanoscale robots."
Travis sees potential applications in medicine, including delivery systems loaded with chemotherapy drugs or antibiotics to target specific cells. Such a system would allow doctors to provide steady doses while reducing side effects that result from treating the entire body with a drug.
Control Issues
Getting microbots to move is crucial, but so is controlling their actions. In fact, perhaps the biggest challenge currently facing microbot developers is finding effective ways of controlling their creations, Shumaker says.
Radio control, the preferred method of directing and coordinating robot operations, becomes problematic when machines are scaled down to toy-sized or even smaller dimensions. Depending on the system's size and shape, it can become difficult—sometimes even impossible—to add basic wireless technology to a microbot.
"Even if you do find a way of squeezing a receiver onboard, and the microbot can handle the added weight, you face the problem of installing an antenna that's large enough to provide decent reception capabilities," Shumaker says.
The Duke researchers are addressing control issues by designing their bots to respond to electrical stimuli as they move through a chip's pathways. Built using microchip fabrication techniques, the bots are each designed to respond differently to the same single "global control signal" as voltages charge and discharge on their working parts.
The idea has paid off in rather spectacular fashion.
Donald's team recently got five of the microbots to group-maneuver in cooperation under the same control system. During a recent demonstration, two of the devices were directed to pirouette to a Strauss waltz on a dance floor measuring just 1 millimeter across. In another exhibition, the bots were directed to pivot in a precise fashion whenever their boom-like steering arms were drawn down to the surface by an electric charge.
"The response is similar to the way dirt bikers turn by extending a boot heel," Donald says.
Although microbot researchers are developing a variety of impressive control methods, Shumaker believes that the ultimate and definitive answer to microbot management lies in autonomous operation.
"We have to at least downplay the notion that people will be able to continuously direct microbot operations," he says.
"Autonomous operation allows a microbot to decide for itself where it will go and what it will do, basically eliminating the need for continuous human oversight." Autonomy becomes a necessity when deploying swarms of flying or rolling microbots.
"It's one thing to manually direct a very large robotic drone, like the Air Force's Predator," says Daniel Burrus, CEO of Burrus Research, a technology trends forecasting firm. "But it would be very difficult for a human, or even a team of people, to coordinate the interaction of
hundreds or even thousands of tiny moving robots." Fortunately, a new generation of smaller and more powerful processor and memory devices is enabling microbot developers to add a great deal of intelligence to very small systems. The biggest remaining roadblock lies in developing the sophisticated onboard software required to manage microbot activities.
"Software is the key element and is becoming one of the most active areas of research," Shumaker says.
Autonomy is already beginning to appear in some microbots. Researchers at the Israel Institute of Technology, for instance, have developed a neurosurgical microbot that directs itself using detailed information obtained from electronic preoperative patient scans.
During surgery, the microrobot is affixed to a head clamp attached to the patient's skull. The bot automatically positions itself with fine accuracy, locks itself in place, and then serves as a guide for the insertion of a needle, probe, or catheter by a surgeon to carry out a specific procedure such as removing a tumor.
The technology helps reduce the amount of pain a patient experiences, since it enables faster surgery by allowing the surgeon to know exactly where to insert the surgical instrument, says Moshe Shoham, director of the school's robotics laboratory and one of the microbot's developers. Surgeons generally like the system because it's easy to use and is applicable to a wide variety of neurosurgical procedures. There are some other benefits as well.
"It allows much less invasive surgery [and the need for] much less radiation," Shoham says.
Power Play
While microbots have relatively modest power needs, most also have little spare room available for storing fuel or other energy sources. This has forced designers to think both small and creatively, turning to both proven and highly experimental technologies to satisfy their microbots' power requirements.
Working on a limited budget, Kovac opted to use a tiny battery—a relatively mundane and low-cost technology—to power his jumping microbot. Since charging or replacing a microbot's battery would be difficult and time consuming, Kovac designed his system so it could be fitted with small solar cells.
"The cells help the robot to recharge between jumps," he notes.
At Cornell, Travis and his team are targeting a couple of energy sources to power their sperm tail propulsion system. The researchers have zeroed in on glycolysis, a process that breaks down glucose to derive adenosine triphosphate (ATP), a substance cells use for energy.
The glycolysis process requires 10 enzymes. Using special "targeting domains," sperm tether these enzymes to a fibrous sheath that runs the length of the tail. The researchers are trying to recreate this glycolytic pathway by modifying each protein's targeting domain so they can instead bind to nickel ions onto a manufactured chip.
So far, the researchers have successfully attached three of the 10 enzymes required to make ATP from glucose. If they manage to attach all 10 enzymes, each enzyme will in principle act in a series to ultimately generate ATP to power a nanodevice. In the body, such a device could conceivably use readily available blood glucose as fuel.
In the years ahead, at least one family of microbots may be able to draw energy from the same materials that the bots are constructed from. This is the promise of chembots, the convergence of soft materials chemistry and robotics.
out of electro- and magneto-rheological materials and other exotic chemical combinations, self-powered chembots will literally ooze their way into otherwise inaccessible places. Chembot researchers expect their systems will be able to perform feats unmatched by any current machine. The systems would be able to enter confined or complex spaces; follow cables, ropes, or wires; and climb trees or other branched structures.
Once in place, an energy self-contained chembot could survey an area and then morph into a specific form to accomplish its task. The device might, for example, gain entry to an improvised explosive device to gather information or potentially disable the device. Other applications include landmine detection, search and rescue in hazardous conditions, and biomedical diagnosis.
A New Era
As microbot research evolves and matures, developers are finding an increasingly deep well of design tools available for addressing critical issues.
"Depending on the situation at hand, a developer may already be able to select from two or three different approaches to a specific problem," Shumaker says.
Additional advances are certain to come, Shumaker notes. In fact, future historians may someday look back at the early 21st century as a golden age of microbotic innovation and, perhaps, the dawning of an era as important as the introduction of the automobile, airplane, or the Internet. Burrus observes that
tiny robots seem destined to play important roles in national defense, home and business security, medicine, transportation, home maintenance, and an almost endless number of other fields.
"As robots get smaller," he says, "the number of possibilities seems to grow greater."
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/19904/19904.html God help us all...
Quote from: Molly on August 11, 2009, 07:21:33 PM
God help us all...
Let's not fear.
Let's just trust God.
What happens is going to happen.
This isn't our home.
Sometimes you can stop the bulldozer, other times you can't.
This world is temporary.
Shine the light on the good of this world as much as you can while you're here...
So you don't succumb to the fear that the world wants to put in our hearts.
Just a little reminder. that's all.. :HeartThrob:
love you guys.
Quote:HeartThrob:
:HeartThrob:
Just to let you know...I'm not afraid of these people, I am tired of their evil and their lack of imagination and their love of death and power.
I know that many of them are deceived, but those running the show are not deceived. They know exactly what they are doing and why.
And, even those who are deceived know the truth in their heart of hearts. I watched old men beating their breasts and crying--scientists--we never thought they would use it [the bomb]. Well, who did they think they were working for? Shirley Temple?