We are deep in the middle of yet another study of Revelation, yet in this arena, it's nothing like all of the traditional interpretations. Since coming into the kingdom understanding, I've found that much of what we were once taught to be one thing, are turning out to be very much the opposite. This piece I'm sharing out here was inspired by an email of a friend. But after I wrote out my response, I thought it'd be fun to stick it on here and let others on all different levels of relationship with God read what was written. Hang on. No . .better yet . .let go.
Revelation 9
Before I do this, keep in mind about how the kingdom works . . .it's the opposite of how natural reasoning works. My logic says early bird gets the worm . . .first gets special honors . . .kingdom says first is last. Everything I "think" that makes sense is actually reversed when Truth is revealed. So when reading Revelation . . .my logic depicts it as doom and gloom . .and you hear this same sentiment from the mainline pulpits . .but when the spirit of Truth begins to reveal . . . only those who learn to let go (of carnality) will be able to embrace the Spirit of life. Only those who exercise a deaf ear (to natural thinking of men) will be able to hear, and only those who choose to be blind (to darkness within and around them) will be able to truly see, and only those who "choose" to lay their minds down to natural reasoning within themselves, will be able to truly understand.
Revelation 9
1And the fifth (Grace) angel (messenger) sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: (Christ coming in the flesh) and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Only Christ has the authority to open this pit. This pit without end in not some eternal place of punishment that men have assumed to be hell or the lake of fire . .it is both and it is neither. It is your mind. Even when you sleep, your mind never stops. I see the entire Bible is now made up of 3 beings. The first Adam, the last Adam and the Father. The book is of one simple message. God, the Father, redeeming the First Adam back to himself through the obedience of the Last Adam. One book, one story. But you see this story repeat itself over and over and over and every time it's repeated, it's done on a different plain, or in a different setting, but it's always the same story. The Book of Revelation is no different. You are seeing the last Adam opening and revealing the contents within the mind of the first Adam.
2And he opened the bottomless pit; (my mind) and there arose a smoke (a veil, it is clouded understanding) out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; (not just a furnace of destruction, but refinement.) and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
If the pit is my mind, the smoke in the pit is my clouded vision which darkens the Sun . .obvious who that one is . .and the air . . .the air is the essence of the Spirit. In the carnal mind, there is a veil that darkens the light of Christ and the voice of the spirit.
3And there came out of the smoke locusts (thoughts) upon the earth (flesh, carnality) : and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Now remember the opening remarks . . . receive this in faith and let your spirit confirm this truth in you. The locusts, not just one or a few, but a swarm . . .they come from "within" your mind . .what's in your mind? Thoughts!! And again, these things are not of the godly nature, but of the carnal. The worries, the doubts, the fears, the fleshly desires, the accusations . . .everything in its entirety that goes through your mind of carnal reasoning is this swarm of locusts. Note where they manifest . .not in the heavens, but 'upon the earth'. This again is dealing with an earth-dwelling individual. If you choose to live by your flesh and soulishness . . . it will consume you like a plague.
And these thoughts have power as scorpions "of the earth" have power. The character of a scorpion is . .what little I do know of scorpions . . .they live in a hot and dry climate . .no water. They hide in cracks of the Rock and they attack anyone and anything they feel threatened by. They enforce fear and intimidation. They have this bony tail that curves over their body like a banner and it's all about their sting. The thoughts of carnality carry the same characteristics as a scorpion.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Grass, trees, or anything manifesting life. Grass is God's blanket to protect the earth (my flesh) from deterioration. That's a new one for me, I just saw that last night. When you remove the grass, you expose the rich soil that lies beneath which contains all the nutrients for seeds to grow and flourish. Remove the blanket, you increase the chances of rain removing the topsoil, and so goes the opportunity for life-giving vegetation to grow in your fields.
This verse separates the things of life, from men without the seal of God on their foreheads . . .without the renewed minds of Christ. Grass, trees and any green thing are those who carry life within them. They are the believers and these scorpions, these thoughts of carnality cannot touch those who are in Christ. They can only infect those who still live according to their own understanding.
5And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
These thoughts, they don't kill, they just bring much torment . .the five months . .don't get hung up on time. God doesn't live according to time, he established it for man to relate to, but God lives through his Son. There are two things that stand out with this. One is, the torment is temporary. Just like our struggles, our frustrations . . . we are pearls who were originated as a foreign object within the oyster of life. We are spirits living in a natural realm. We are irritants that God is secreting a protective covering over us and as we mature in this realm, we become the gates of pearl Revelation also speaks of, we are the gates that lead into the kingdom of heaven. See how this book can really inspire you instead of invoking fear??? Stinking religion has perverted everything.
6And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Here's the kicker for me . .men (flesh, carnality, natural thinking and reasoning) seek death . .there's always a way to see the negative in everything, people do it all the time. But when Christ unlocks your bottomless pit . . .death cannot be found. Flesh desires to die, all it thinks about is death, but it's as Scripture says . . grave, where is your victory . .oh death where is your (what?) STING . . .like a scorpion you think???
I do love reading Revelation!
Thanks for this revelation of Revelation Nathan :thumbsup:
That was very interesting Nate and very spiritual in nature , I love them thoughts [ :happy3:]
and Have a few things also to share and consider bro , when a few back in the day , brought some AWESOME THINGS to Light
God willing I can post them soon , I have been so busy today
ugh !
love to all ..rose
5The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. 6John wore clothing made of camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7And this was his message: "After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie.
--Mark 1
John stands at the crossing into the promised land, the forerunner of Jesus, eating locusts and honey,standing in the gap between the old and the new.
Locusts were a 'kosher' food.
21Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
23But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
--Lev 11
They destroy the land, often as a curse from God. But John eats them for lunch. The locusts of Revelation have tails like scorpions for stingers. The scorpion is a deadly insect. But we are not to be afraid of them, although they are likened unto deadly men.
Ezekiel 2:6
And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.
Because we have the victory in Jesus, who is putting all of his enemies under [his] feet--
Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Yes and amen Molly!!! The thing that natural reasoning considers to be a curse is the very thing that our spirit thrives on . . .boo ya!!
Hi nat
Im glad to see you posting again...who cares if ya posts annoy a few...cos I dont.
to late for this head to digest right now..ill have it brekky bro...
Later matey :icon_flower:
its time to overcome
blessings on blessings!
Okay, I'm going to try to see if I can capture some of what happened in our study last night. This is a continuance of the thread I did called Revelation 9, the locusts in you, or something to that affect . . .In sort of catching up to where we'd left off last week, I found myself stopping on this 5-month thing and had to share the reference to Elizabeth and things got kind of interesting from there.
Luke 1
22But when he ca18Zacharias said to the angel, "How will I know this for certain? For (AB)I am an old man and my wife is advanced in years." 19The angel answered and said to him, "I am (AC)Gabriel, who (AD)stands in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news. 20"And behold, you shall be silent and unable to speak until the day when these things take place, because you did not believe my words, which will be fulfilled in their proper time." 21The people were waiting for Zacharias, and were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 But when he came out, he was unable to speak to them; and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple; and he (AE)kept making signs to them, and remained mute. 23When the days of his priestly service were ended, he went back home. ."
As much as I'd like to just address the 5 months, I can't because it's a package deal here. Here goes . . .Zacharias obviously was still under the conformity of law and was in the temple "serving" according to the requirements of the law. A law that was about to be fulfilled with these coming events about to take place, beginning with him "in" the temple.
There are still countless people who are serving God through the requirements of the laws of men. It's all they know and it's what they accept. But yet, the time comes when a message of Truth comes to them, as they are in this temple, and because they are there due to the requirements of law ingrained in them, their reaction is very similar to Zacharias, he, as do they, want justification by way of reasoning to prove this word coming to them is authentic. "Justification by way of reasoning" is not walking in the spirit. It's walking according to knowledge of men. And as a result, the message actually mutes them. The only thing that released Zacharias was identifying the name of his son . . .which was totally against tradition. John, by tradition, should have been named after his father.
59And it happened that on the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to call him Zacharias, after his father. 60But his mother answered and said, "No indeed; but he shall be called John." 61And they said to her, "There is no one among your relatives who is called by that name." 62And they made signs to his father, as to what he wanted him called. 63And he asked for a tablet and wrote as follows, "His name is John." And they were all astonished. 64And at once his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he began to speak in praise of God
John was the forerunner of the one who would remove the old system and replace it with the new. As a forerunner, he could not be born of tradition either. The moment his Father acknowledged his name, his muted tongue was released. If . . .no . . ."when" the church comes to realize and profess there is a new day in which we're being called, their ability to communicate truth and life will return to them. Right now, the message is coming, but they are trying to justify it by way of reasoning and as a result, there is no sound of truth coming from them, only the noise of conformity and religion. We were once in that same place so we're not any better than the next guy. It's only by the Grace of God that our tongues have been loosed. Yes?
So, Zacharias and Elizabeth are example number one and the response was justification through reasoning which resulted in a muted tongue and the potential of something even worse, which we'll get to in a minute. But keep in mind, they were still living according to the law, this is key.
It's also interesting to me that this story is actually a two-fold story because it breaks away from Zacharias and Elizabeth and starts all over again with the virgin Mary. And this isn't about a forerunner, it's about the coming of the New Covenant. And Mary's response was much different. She chose not to try to obtain justification through reasoning of her mind, even though it was clear she didn't understand all of it, her response was "let it be as you have said." Knowing full well that this was going to blow up and her life would be completely turned upside down. Knowing the church would reject her and even condemn her for becoming with child out of wedlock. Knowing she would be rejected by friends and family and the church she loved as she was raised in it, but she was still willing to let it all go for this message that came to her. She was willing to leave tradition behind her for the purpose of giving birth to the son of the God who established the law that was about to condemn her. (not God, the law)
Let's jump back to Elizabeth, for here is the only other reference to 5 months other than Revelation 9. In reading this, it is important that we keep in mind the biggest rule of interpretation. And that is, LET THE WORD OF GOD INTERPRET ITSELF. The reason why we're looking at Luke is because of what is stated in Revelation about the locusts attacking men without the seal of God upon their foreheads lasting five months. There is a powerful revelation here that I never saw before which is my original intent for writing this out now.
Luke 1:24 After these days Elizabeth his wife became pregnant, and she kept herself in seclusion for five months, saying, 25"This is the way the Lord has dealt with me in the days when He looked with favor upon me, to take away my disgrace among men
This is huge for me. Both Elizabeth and Mary were experiencing the eyes of men's disgrace upon them. But with Elizabeth, her disgrace was that she had been barren all her married life, and with Mary, it was because she was expecting already and not legally married. But when the prophetic message manifested in her womb (what is your womb? It's your mind) she hid herself in seclusion and relished her new condition. What does this have to do with locusts? I liken them to Paul's thorn. If it were not for his thorn, he would not have experienced the full awareness of how great God's grace really is. If it weren't for these locusts tormenting those who want justification through natural reasoning (see the connection there?) they would not realize the greatness of God's mercy on their lives either.
Five months is a depiction of the removal of the curse of your mind. God never has looked upon us in disgrace. In fact, it was "because" of his grace that he looks upon us at all. Remember what the locusts are? They come out of the smoke, the smoke comes out of the pit . . .the bottomless pit is my mind. The smoke is the clouded understanding of the nature of God "in" me. And the locusts are all of the carnal thoughts, the natural logic and desires of the flesh, the desire for justification through natural reasoning. But those thoughts are a tool. the locusts are a tool. God uses my ungodly thoughts and natural reasoning as a tool to lead me into his truths of righteousness. Is there not a Scripture that states that God takes that which the enemy intended for destruction in us, and he reverses it to become a blessing for us? (paraphrased greatly).
So, both Mary and Elizabeth have this life-seed in their wombs. Against all of the laws of religion, they continue to walk around with this seed in their wombs. Actually, when the message came to Marry, it was 6 months after Elizabeth's message came. But an interesting thing happens. As Mary receives the message, she feels a very strong desire to go to Elizabeth's house. Why do you suppose that is? They both have a message that's impregnated them with life, yet Mary must go meet with Elizabeth and it becomes very urgent for her to do so.
We know Scripture states that we have all been called, predestined into this earth, we've been called from the spirit to manifest in these bodies we're now in, in the flesh. Before I was born, there was a plan laid out for my life, yes? Well, it's no different with John, there was a plan for him to be the forerunner, but that was conditional. It would only have happened if Mary accepted the message given to her. If she rejects it, then John can't exist. Remember, John's Father is a representative of the Old Covenant. It was the temporary shadow of a covenant to lead us into the substance, the source. So of the one to carry the substance refuses, then the one carrying the forerunner loses the baby. They are one. If one is rejected, the other can not be birthed. If the blood of the Lamb is not acknowledged in us, truth can not manifest through us.
Our purpose is to reproduce. Our spirit has been planted with the seed of life, if our mind does not submit, then this life cannot manifest through us. We give way to a stillborn child. Our minds birth things out, but there's no life to be found.
However, check out what happens when life "is" in us and our minds "do" acknowledge and submit . . .
39Now at this time Mary arose and went in a hurry to (AW)the hill country, to a city of Judah, 40and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was (AX)filled with the Holy Spirit. 42And she cried out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43"And how has it happened to me, that the mother of (AY)my Lord would come to me? 44"For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy. 45"And (AZ)blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what had been spoken to her by the Lord."
Because of the obedience and submission of Mary's heart, life was released from her lips into the womb of Elizabeth. In every one of us, there is a prophetic word of life waiting to be released from our lips. It's not through preaching doctrine, theology or religion, it comes through salutations . .greeting one to another. how simple is that!!! How can that be? Easy, it's not by anything man does, it's all through the power of the spirit within us. May the seeds of life within our Elizabeth wombs jump for joy as we receive our message of promise and life from the Spirit flows from our lips by way of our relationships with one another in the Spirit of Truth and love. In the sixth month of your labor, may the word of the Lord quicken life within your womb through salutations of the spirit.
:thumbsup: Thanks for that good word. God's blessing, James.
Now you are speaking clearly, that was some good stuff.
Much of the problem I believe you and I have in our previous discussions is the problem discerning between what the point of doctrine, theology, or religion is and making doctrine, theology, or religion the point. Do not make the mistake that doctrine, theology or religion is the point for myself, I believe as you do when you say...
Quote"Because of the obedience and submission of Mary's heart, life was released from her lips into the womb of Elizabeth. In every one of us, there is a prophetic word of life waiting to be released from our lips. It's not through preaching doctrine, theology or religion, it comes through salutations . .greeting one to another. how simple is that!!! How can that be? Easy, it's not by anything man does, it's all through the power of the spirit within us. May the seeds of life within our Elizabeth wombs jump for joy as we receive our message of promise and life from the Spirit flows from our lips by way of our relationships with one another in the Spirit of Truth and love. "
Good word.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on November 07, 2008, 01:54:43 AM
Hi Martin
Still can't seem to reply in the book of revelation child board.
Was wondering if you could post the following reply in the Revelation Sequel #9 thread. It's ok if you would rather try to get the bug fixed first.
Reply follows....
QuoteBecause of the obedience and submission of Mary's heart, life was released from her lips into the womb of Elizabeth. In every one of us, there is a prophetic word of life waiting to be released from our lips. It's not through preaching doctrine, theology or religion, it comes through salutations . .greeting one to another. how simple is that!!! How can that be? Easy, it's not by anything man does, it's all through the power of the spirit within us. May the seeds of life within our Elizabeth wombs jump for joy as we receive our message of promise and life from the Spirit flows from our lips by way of our relationships with one another in the Spirit of Truth and love. In the sixth month of your labor, may the word of the Lord quicken life within your womb through salutations of the spirit.
I do not disagree with that for the most part and that subject had came up in a church I was attending. I want to pose a question along those lines to see where it may go.
Do you believe that these greetings and speaking of life towards one another needs to be genuine and not just an act of cordial duty for it to be effective long term?
I think we should strive to think about that whether we are perfect about it of course.
Maybe an example would be to say that if we greet someone more because we think we are pleasing God by acting nice when maybe we feel indifferent towards someone, is that spirit that goes forth more from the act or from the truth in our heart?
I do not disagree with that for the most part and that subject had came up in a church I was attending. I want to pose a question along those lines to see where it may go.
Do you believe that these greetings and speaking of life towards one another needs to be genuine and not just an act of cordial duty for it to be effective long term?
I think we should strive to think about that whether we are perfect about it of course.
Maybe an example would be to say that if we greet someone more because we think we are pleasing God by acting nice when maybe we feel indifferent towards someone, is that spirit that goes forth more from the act or from the truth in our heart?
Just my opinion here, but if I have anything other than love for someone, it is my flesh manifesting and not His spirit. So when that person approaches me, if I truly believe I must decrease that he may increase, then what I think or feel should automatically be secondary. This river that is to flow from our bellies, it is a river of life and love, not of personal emotion or offense. Whether "I feel" this love or not isn't even the issue. I would apply 2 Corinthians 10 where it speaks about taking captive those thoughts. Chances are very high that God sent that individual over to me so that I could have the opportuntiy to submit myself . . .to put my own feelings in the back seat and "let" God's love shine through me. This light is in all of us and our minds convince us that it's only when we "feel" love that we can then release love. And it's not to be based on feelings . .that's there that "justification by way of natural reasoning" comes into play.
I justify that I don't "feel" this love for so-and-so is genuine, so rather than be a hypercrite and fake it, I choose to either walk away, or let them see the genuine me and let the truth be known. And neither of those choices would be beneficial. We're encouraged to love the unlovable. How can I do that when they are very hard to love? By faith. I may not "feel" love for them, but I know that if I walk in "his" love, that it will be genuine to both me and the other person.
It's an amazing thing when words of life are released into the atmosphere, even though my mind doesn't feel the life in current state, my heart knows how faith works and it hopefully over-rides the logic in my mind and it releases the love words no matter how my flesh feels. Easier said than done of course.
Nathan that was awesome :icon_flower:
please share more of them good thoughts/seed
the fruit of our lips as well as the fruit of the womb /mind
wow !
I also wanted to say what goes with your anology is the hidden name meanings they fit as well !
Gabriel = "warrior of God" or "man of God"
Zacharias meaning "remembered of Jehovah"
Elisabeth = "oath of God" an oath can mean a statement or promise strengthened by such an appeal. John = "Jehovah is a gracious giver"
keep up the good work bro
and Thanks for coming back to TM
God lov ya ,, rose
If you went through Joel 2 . . .you must have also had to have gone through Joel 1 . . .Joel 2 speaks of restoration from the destruction that was explained in Joel 1. But what is your application? Is it used to support the belief that this is yet to come? Or is it to relay the fact that this is to signify what transpired in the time frame of A.D. 70.
Again, I do very much believe there is a literal application to every verse of Scripture. I just don't see any indication where "we" are the ones to be taking it that way due to the fact that it's not literally written to Today's Israel or U.S. or any other country in this generation. But I "do" see the spiritual application of these locust coming into my land "within" me and stripping me of every living thing, but why? Perhaps it's because the living things in me are cultivated things, and not God-ordained living things?
Galatians 5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
For me, Joel is the same context that Daniel spoke from when he was told to seal up the book. And it's also the same context that John documented his vision and he was told just the opposite . .he was told "not" to seal up the book. These things were not for our generation to apply physically or literally, but instead, we're to pursue the spiritual truth that lies beneath the surface of the natural things written and said.