Revelation 7:14

[WhiteWings]

10 and crying out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the lamb!"
11 All the angels stood around the throne with the leaders and the four living creatures. They bowed in front of the throne with their faces touching the ground, worshiped God,
12 and said, "Amen! Praise, glory, wisdom, thanks, honor, power, and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen!"
13 One of the leaders asked me, "Who are these people wearing white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered him, "Sir, you know." Then he told me, "These are the people who are coming out of the terrible suffering. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb.
15 That is why they are in front of the throne of God. They serve him day and night in his temple. The one who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
16 They will never be hungry or thirsty again. Neither the sun nor any burning heat will ever overcome them.

Rev 7:10-16 (GW)

Are the above people who suffered on earth or have they return from 'hell' where their robes where washed?

[martincisneros]

They were evidently victims of hunger, thirst, and heat.  And the chapter is about the sealing of 144,000 Jews for ministry.  If you can accept a futurist interpretation of the book of Revelation, then these appear to be victims of the holocaust.  Of every interpretation that I could give, that one seems the most moving, and for the present the most likely.

[WhiteWings]

What holocaust Martin?
The WW2 holocaust or the armageddon holocaust?
I always thought the 144.000 is a selection of humanity since creation.
You make it sound they are selected in a short time span.

[CHB]

I thought the 144,000 were people out of all the tribes of Israel? Has any one ever thought of whether the holocaust was recorded in the Bible since it was a huge event. Could some of the 144,000 be of the holocaust?

In (Rev. 14:4) it speaks about the 144,000 being the firstfruits, this is Israel. (Rev. 7:4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

CHB

[Taffy]

 The Book of Revelation is written in symbols .

so why do we see things such as holocausts  and Battles , wars ,Killings etc( SORrY FOR THE LACK OF SCRIPTURE , TIME IS SHORT FOR NOW..)

Paul says this

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against  the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

IN REV...It talks in the opening Chapters about Overcoming ..he that Overcometh I will GIVE.......

Check out the 1000 yr thread....

ItS all truly about Moving from LAW to Grace and TRUTH....someone please TELL ME, why on EARTH should the Theme of scripture change in Revelation , Where we see from the Garden the two tress which represent ed LAW and LIFE..and is shown many times elsewhere,.....after all, Christs ministry was to the Jews

The 144, 000 ARE symbolic of Gods People ,who In the NEW C are NEW Jerusalem...the MOTHER of US ALL.

Revelation IS NOT ABOUT THE BATTLES OF THE FLESH, but the battles of the MIND, moving from the shadow to the  reality, being Created ONE in HIM.

This battle of Armaggedon for mine , is  a  Battle of Flesh V spirit...the TwO COVENANTS.

The FLESH PROFITS NOTHING and has to perish, BEFORE THE SPIRIT can live ....iTS ALL TO with GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS declared AT THE beginning..being created In the LAST ADAM BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, MAKING  us one AGAIN.

Just a few "loose"" thoughts

Taffy

[CHB]

The Book of Revelation is written in symbols .

Yes, most of it is symbolic but so were the parables but they represented something real.

so why do we see things such as holocausts  and Battles , wars ,Killings etc( SORrY FOR THE LACK OF SCRIPTURE , TIME IS SHORT FOR NOW..)

I think it is because some of these things did happen.

Paul says this

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against  the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

IN REV...It talks in the opening Chapters about Overcoming ..he that Overcometh I will GIVE.......

Who is it that overcomes? Israel. This has to do with law. The book of Revelation is to and about Israel.

Check out the 1000 yr thread....

ItS all truly about Moving from LAW to Grace and TRUTH....someone please TELL ME, why on EARTH should the Theme of scripture change in Revelation , Where we see from the Garden the two tress which represent ed LAW and LIFE..and is shown many times elsewhere,.....after all, Christs ministry was to the Jews

The book of Revelation is mostly about law, not grace. I agree Christ ministry was to the Jews.

The 144, 000 ARE symbolic of Gods People ,who In the NEW C are NEW Jerusalem...the MOTHER of US ALL.

I believe it says the 144,000 were the firstfruits which is Israel and it also states this in (Rev.7:4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed 144,000 of ALL THE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL,

Revelation IS NOT ABOUT THE BATTLES OF THE FLESH, but the battles of the MIND, moving from the shadow to the  reality, being Created ONE in HIM.

This battle of Armaggedon for mine , is  a  Battle of Flesh V spirit...the TwO COVENANTS.

Could be this has already happened.

The FLESH PROFITS NOTHING and has to perish, BEFORE THE SPIRIT can live ....iTS ALL TO with GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS declared AT THE beginning..being created In the LAST ADAM BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, MAKING  us one AGAIN.

Just a few "loose"" thoughts

Taffy

98% of the Bible is written to, for, and about Israel. Revelation is no exception. It is also about Christ and his role in it all.  Notice: it mentions the lamb a lot. This is the sacrificial lamb, Christ it is referring to. Also kings and priest which only applies to Israel. Most of Revelation can be found in the Old Testament.

Only the way I see things at this time.  :grin: :happy3:

CHB

[laren]

The Book of Revelation is written in symbols .

so why do we see things such as holocausts  and Battles , wars ,Killings etc( SORrY FOR THE LACK OF SCRIPTURE , TIME IS SHORT FOR NOW..)

Paul says this

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against  the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

IN REV...It talks in the opening Chapters about Overcoming ..he that Overcometh I will GIVE.......

Check out the 1000 yr thread....

ItS all truly about Moving from LAW to Grace and TRUTH....someone please TELL ME, why on EARTH should the Theme of scripture change in Revelation , Where we see from the Garden the two tress which represent ed LAW and LIFE..and is shown many times elsewhere,.....after all, Christs ministry was to the Jews

The 144, 000 ARE symbolic of Gods People ,who In the NEW C are NEW Jerusalem...the MOTHER of US ALL.

Revelation IS NOT ABOUT THE BATTLES OF THE FLESH, but the battles of the MIND, moving from the shadow to the  reality, being Created ONE in HIM.

This battle of Armaggedon for mine , is  a  Battle of Flesh V spirit...the TwO COVENANTS.

The FLESH PROFITS NOTHING and has to perish, BEFORE THE SPIRIT can live ....iTS ALL TO with GOING BACK TO WHAT WAS declared AT THE beginning..being created In the LAST ADAM BOTH MALE AND FEMALE, MAKING  us one AGAIN.

Just a few "loose"" thoughts

Taffy

Hi G  :bigGrin: 

When you say moving from LAW to GRACE, you mean a mindset of moving from law to grace?  right??

There is no more "covenental Law" right?  In reality there is no LAW (the cross took care of this), but we must move from a mindset from LAW to GRACE. 

So, what do you see as the "LAW mindset".  How would you, or anyone here define that?? 

In the old testament, to me God set up "external" requirements that created a "mindset".  Ie: the temple, the sacrifices, the rituals etc.  But now, the LAW for most is not that.  What is the "law" mindset??

appreciate your insights

[Taffy]

When you say moving from LAW to GRACE, you mean a mindset of moving from law to grace?  right??

yes BRO...moving FROM THE mind WHICH WAS dead, the carnal mind being emnity , to that which IS LIFE

There is no more "covenental Law" right? 

THE LAW ARE FOR THOSE under LAW (both are KEPT) ,UNTIL they to MOVE TO LIFE...Eternal LIFE ,IS TO KNOW HIM.

In reality there is no LAW (the cross took care of this), but we must move from a mindset from LAW to GRACE.

Yes the Cross took care of the LAW ,AMEN,...AMEN to the Latter

So, what do you see as the "LAW mindset".  How would you, or anyone here define that??

The Law as Paul Says IS HOLY and GOOD...for mine its purpose was to SHOW us who we are , what paul calls this BODY of DEATH,..,Rom7\Rom8.

not only who were are ,but the shadow of the REALITY ,that WHICH  the  Jews didnt understand,That being Christ, both Cs bear witness to HIM,Thier mind set was to establish their righteousness by works , BRINGING  DEATH not life,..,therefore ,DEAD to the reality of WHO LIFE IS.

We have to go through DEATH first, to realise WHO\what LIFE IS.....First the natural, then the spirtual

The mystery of the ages was unfolding through Paul ,Christ the hidden Man OF THE heart,

In the old testament, to me God set up "external" requirements that created a "mindset".  Ie: the temple, the sacrifices, the rituals etc.  But now, the LAW for most is not that.  What is the "law" mindset??

The Jews were a chosen nation  through which  God would work his Plan of Salvation..but it didnt END with LAW keeping , The Tree of LIFE is its completion...ones righteousness( life) the Gift of, is NOT establish by LAW .

Which brings us to..Those who OVERCOME, ...wE DO not overcome in the flesh,WE SUBMIT TO HIM BY HIS FAITH who overcome for us..SO ,WHO IS being talked about in The opening Chapters( churches)in Revelation...As mentioned by Nathan , the letters in the New mainly focus on the spirtually weak, those who kept returning or falling away to LAW for righteouness....as I mentioned, why on Earth would the theme change...The two Cs go back to Genesis, and are repeated .. the seperation of DAY and Night , the speration of the Waters ,Cain and Abel, Esau and jacob ........For mine the theme doesnt change,..it started in Genesis and is repeated in Revelation

Blessings
T

[Taffy]

Yes, most of it is symbolic but so were the parables but they represented something real.

Yes I agree ,that which is written in Revelation are about that which is REAL...But if you waiting for a LITERAL beast to RISE from the sea etc...youll be waiting a Long time.

I think it is because some of these things did happen.

Fine..like what?

[Who is it that overcomes? Israel. This has to do with law. The book of Revelation is to and about Israel.

Maybe you miss the point Charlotte...we MOVE from LAW( literal Israel) to one who is a SPIRITUAL JEW,( Grace and TRUTH) which is the point im trying to establish

Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:


Rom 2:29  But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

The book of Revelation is mostly about law, not grace.

Really,...as much as those under are discussed then  GRACE ABOUNDS EVEN more.


Rev 2:1 ¶ Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;


Noted in the opening VERSE...Theres Only ONE church( BODY) in spiritual reality..HIS...7 means completion..=one

He HOLDS THESE CHUCHES in his right hand,,,,DO A STUDY ON ( 5 FINGERS) right hand and you may come to realise this MEANS """"""""""""""""" GRACE""""""""""""""""""

some again were falling away to the doctrine of the Nicolodians..( do a study here too)

and what do we see there after..more GRACE...(Christ)

Rev 2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The message continues...I "WILL GIVE""" The Crown OF Life...The Morning Star..clothed in WHITE RAIMENT..established IN THE Book of LIFE..A PILLAR iN THE TEMPLE..A NEW NAME....New Jerulasem..GOLD tried in Fire...eyesalve..the list continues...

I believe it says the 144,000 were the firstfruits which is Israel and it also states this in (Rev.7:4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed 144,000 of ALL THE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL,

Sister, We are to move from Physical Israel to a SPIRITUAL one...This 144,000 IS another symbolic Number for New Jerusalem , all those being apart of HIS BODY.

Could be this has already happened.

Now you talking sister....Indeed, as paul mentioned its a Battle of the mind,.as mentioned to Laren , we move from DEATH to LIFE..from LAW to Grace....., of course this is HAPPENING ""NOW""...as people experience the LAKE""NOW""
..Like those who OVERCOME, through the BLOOD of LAMB  "" NOW ""...LIKE THE RESURRECTION to LIFE is NOW,...like Eternal Life IS now....

98% of the Bible is written to, for, and about Israel. Revelation is no exception. It is also about Christ and his role in it all.  Notice: it mentions the lamb a lot. This is the sacrificial lamb, Christ it is referring to. Also kings and priest which only applies to Israel. Most of Revelation can be found in the Old Testament.

Revelation is about the LIFE of the LAMB ,although Kings and Priests are found in the Book as well Charlotte...and like the above, we are KINGS AND PRIESTS WHO REIGN OVER DEATH WITH HIM "" NOW" ALSO...


Blessings
T

[Nathan]

Wow . . . where does one begin?
I find it a bit pious of me to preach that Revelation is futuristic.  I've taught it from the traditional perspective . .it took about 7 months of Sundays to get through it.  And I've taught it from the "nontraditional" perspective . . .it's been 4 years and we're in the process of a second trip through.  It's changed everything in my belief system.  It's changed everything in my approach to the rest of the Bible.

First, before I can relate to how it pertains to me now, I must first understand who it was written to then.  It was not written to the religious, it was not written to all believers, and it certainly was not written to our generation.  It's purpose was to bring hope to those who were being slaughtered, not because they were a Jew . . .as some are connecting the 144,000 to, but because they were followers of Christ.  Who were "they"?  It states who this was written to in the first verse . . .

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,   (NAS)

Who is this being shown to?  Not servants . .not slaves . . ."Bond" servants.  There is a huge difference between  a servant or slave of Christ and a bond-servant of Christ.  The former is serving out of debt, the latter is serving out of love . . and the latter is a life-long commitment.  A bondservant is one that "was" a slave, but the Sabbath year had come, his tenure was over and he was given the choice to go back home and start over fresh, or to remain as a slave to his master for the rest of his life . . .it was through the relationship of love that the servant would then choose to remain . at which point, the master would lead the servant up to the threshold of his house, take an awl and pierce the servants ear "to" the threshold of his house . . .and then give the servant a ring to wear in his ear as a symbol of his commitment to his master.  This is ladled with symbolism of a true follower of Christ.  "That" is who Revelation is written to.  It's a very intimate group of people.

Secondly . . . these things were to happen "soon".  There is a lot of similarities between Daniel and Revelation . . . Daniel saw many of the same things John saw.  But when Daniel recorded them, he was told to "seal up" the book for the time was not come yet.  Roughly speaking . . .Daniel was about 600 years before Christ . . .right?  Somewhere in there.  And something happened when Jesus came . . . that which Daniel was told to seal, Jesus opened.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Even when Matthew copied this from Mark, both Matthew and Mark knew what "whoso readeth, let him understand" meant.  It meant that THESE THINGS ARE SYMBOLIC OF OTHER THINGS.  It was in spiritual code so to speak.  But again, notice, Jesus reopened the book that Daniel sealed . . . Matthew 24 is in direct connection with Revelation as well.  The reason why Jesus reopened the book was because of what he said several times in Mattew 23 and again in Matthew 24 . . .

Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The things that happened in Revelation are not going to happen to our generation, they've already happened to "that" generation.  We are not to read "into" these verses as though they literally pertain to us . . . they do relate to us, but not on the same level as they related to those who the book was written to. 

What was told to Daniel about sealing up the book, the opposite was told to John . . .

Revelation 22
10And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.

Now, for those who still hang on to the belief that it's for us . .tell me, how could that possibly be when Daniel was told to seal it up . . .and 600 years later, Jesus reopened it . . .and then . .John was told "not" to seal it up . .because it was going to happen TWO THOUSAND YEARS LATER????

The literal defintion for that phrase "the time is at hand" actually means, it's already begun.  So no, I strongly believe that Revelation is not for my generation to take literally . .it was for that generation and what it "was" all about was, the coming of Jesus, not as a redeemer, not as the power of the Spirit, but as a judge.  They called this upon themselves . . .

Matthew 27
24When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.  25Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

I about fell out of my chair when I heard the Rabbi's were extremely offended by Mel Gibson's portrayal of the crucifixion . . .they're biggest issue was . . .this very line that Mel put in his movie.  They were addamant that he remove it.  He compromised.  Because the whole movie was captioned in English. . . he left it in, but he removed the caption for that one line.  Interesting isn't it?  They still won't take accountability for their actions.

This thread was on the 144,000 .  . . in a sentence, I'll say this . . .it's not the Jews, it's not the holocaust, it's not Israel . . .it's you.  It is 12,000 from every tribe of Israel . .but "we" read it spiritually, not literally.  It's in the numbers.  12,000 is the sum of the tithe of 120.  It was Genesis 6 where God said he'd no longer strive with man, but gave him a life span of 120 years . . .even though, in all of the chronological orders of the generations, there is only one person who actually lived to be 120 and that was Moses . . .who represents law.  It was the works of law . .the laboring man that this is referring to . . .but then in the upper room . .we again see this number 120 . . .it's the tithe of the nations who have pursued Christ.

In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek . . .bond or free, male or female . . .in Christ . .we are all Jews . . .we are all circumcized by the blood.  This book is not about us . . .it's about Christ and it's about redemption, it's about grace, it's about mercy . . .if you see it as judgment on all the earth, you've stepped out of the spirit realm, which we are all called to walk in.  It's not about judgment.  It's about redemption.  Judgment did come to that generation that rejected Jesus redemption, but even so, the book is not about God bringing his wrath to the reader because again, it was not written "to" those who judgment was coming to . . .it was coming to those who rejected Christ as the redeemer.  The book is actually a book of hope and joy . .not destruction and damnation.  It's amazing what the religious mind can do with truth.

One last piece . . .
John in Revelation, was told to write . . .

Revelation 1:19
19"Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.

Is this not talking about John recording the things that are going to happen?  Yes and no.  First, they did happen right after he wrote them.  the entire religious system was uprooted and they've never recovered, they've never returned to their animal sacrifices . . .nor will they ever, bad as they want to, God has already removed it from them . . .when God shuts the door, no man can open it.  So on that, yes, John was to write things that had not yet happened .  . . which remember, by then, had already begun.

But before we get to confident on "what" John was to write, maybe we should consider it's what "what" but "who".  Just a mere 11 verses earlier, Jesus explained himself this way . . .

8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Who "was", "is", and "is to come".  "John I want you to write that which you have seen (who was) things which are (who is) and things that will be (who is to come).  Which already brings us back full circle . .this is a revelation of Jesus Christ.  The things revealed in this vision are Jesus Christ.  The 4 horses are Jesus Christ, the voices, are Jesus Christ . . .thunderings, lightnings . . .trumpet blasts, it's all Jesus Christ.

[WhiteWings]

I about fell out of my chair when I heard the Rabbi's were extremely offended by Mel Gibson's portrayal of the crucifixion . . .they're biggest issue was . . .this very line that Mel put in his movie.

There is much more hatred agains that movie.
Mainly because one of Jesus eyes was shut during most of the movie. And Gibsons film company logo.
Both are seen as some mark of satan. So in their view the film was about making a weak fool of Jesus.

[Nathan]

For me personally, the movie was where I was also at the time.  But now, I would like to see the emphasis put on the resurrection more than the death.  My mind dwells on death enough as it is . . .let's see how the imagination can portray resurrection life! 

[Taffy]

We are not to read "into" these verses as though they literally pertain to us . . . they do relate to us, but not on the same level as they related to those who the book was written to.

Hi Brud :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

For one who came from a LAW abiding church, be it without the sacrifices etc, I do find Revelation very relative for use to day...not for those who live in the heavens , but certainly for those who live below.
Ive seen the fear, the bondage , the slavery et all , all work focused...ive known people KILL themselves for NOT living up to The standard LAID down those above , people omitted  never be talked too or talked about EVER AGAIN....One second a brother or sister. the next declared as Stan the Man himself. :sigh:

Blessings
T

[laren]

We are not to read "into" these verses as though they literally pertain to us . . . they do relate to us, but not on the same level as they related to those who the book was written to.

Hi Brud :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

For one who came from a LAW abiding church, be it without the sacrifices etc, I do find Revelation very relative for use to day...not for those who live in the heavens , but certainly for those who live below.
Ive seen the fear, the bondage , the slavery et all , all work focused...ive known people KILL themselves for NOT living up to The standard LAID down those above , people omitted  never be talked too or talked about EVER AGAIN....One second a brother or sister. the next declared as Stan the Man himself. :sigh:

Blessings
T

just a thought G/T

those under LAW NOW,

are they in covenant , as they were in Old Testament/OC times;

or are they "under law" out of ignorance and "illusion", not realizing God has completed that, "it is finished" 


In other words, I see God as "in covenant/law with Israel" in old cov/old testament times, but that was fulfilled in Christ 2000 years ago.  So now, any "under LAW" are out of ignorance, not from being in "covenant".

make any sense??

[Taffy]

those under LAW NOW,

are they in covenant , as they were in Old Testament/OC times;


or are they "under law" out of ignorance and "illusion", not realizing God has completed that, "it is finished"

Both for mine..

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved

some do err by mixing BOTH, if you will one foot in LAW , the other under Grace...babylon Confusion by mixing?

In other words, I see God as "in covenant/law with Israel" in old cov/old testament times, but that was fulfilled in Christ 2000 years ago.  So now, any "under LAW" are out of ignorance, not from being in "covenant".

The new WINE if for NEW BOTTLES..and the OLD is preserved even today , for those who DRINK the OLD WINE, Be it ignorance or not,

Yes, for those WHO SEE AND HEAR, understand the Old has perished by US being in the NEW...but their are many ,Like our Jewish brothers who still maintain LAW for righteousness, then there are those who mix the OLD WITH NEW...That be my perception bro....even in days of old there was transition , easy for some than others.

an example...my old church THINK the NEWC is a Modification of the OLD, they dont see it as something NEW,in fact, they put GREATER emphasis of keeping the LAW on a HIGHER LEVEL, to the point ,Christ is not even mentioned in their sermons..the emphasis is WORKS ( TO ESTABLISH RIGHTEOUSNESS ), not Grace.



Blessings
T

[rosered]

those under LAW NOW,

are they in covenant , as they were in Old Testament/OC times;


or are they "under law" out of ignorance and "illusion", not realizing God has completed that, "it is finished"

Both for mine..

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved

    wow some great thoughts /breaths   again

  the preserved  in Matt 9;17  is greek  4933  syntēreō


1) to preserve (a thing from perishing or being lost)

2) to keep within one's self, keep in mind (a thing, lest it be forgotten)

   to me its the memorial book of  Gods law  keeping his promises

   from mnemon, "mindful''  its twice told, in the old and new ''bottles'' out of the mouth of God for a Witness /Holy Spirit speaking

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?



Hbr 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

  this in  Exodus tells us its for all  generations .....

Exd 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.


   and in Judes letter  verse 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] calledMercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied


  greek  tēreō 5083
to attend to carefully, take care of

a) to guard

b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is

c) to observe

d) to reserve: to undergo something

it is by Faith [gift of God ] we are saved through Jesus Christ 
even the Faith  is the Lords we are to act upon /deeds   the greater works   shall be done
  :) 
thanks guys for the stimulating  posts  all of you 
 

[Taffy]

the preserved  in Matt 9;17  is greek  4933  syntēreō


1) to preserve (a thing from perishing or being lost)

2) to keep within one's self, keep in mind (a thing, lest it be forgotten)

   to me its the memorial book of  Gods law  keeping his promises

   from mnemon, "mindful"  its twice told, in the old and new "bottles" out of the mouth of God for a Witness /Holy Spirit speaking

Psa 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?



Hbr 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

  this in  Exodus tells us its for all  generations .....

Exd 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.


   and in Judes letter  verse 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] calledMercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied


  greek  tēreō 5083
to attend to carefully, take care of

a) to guard

b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is

c) to observe

d) to reserve: to undergo something

it is by Faith [gift of God ] we are saved through Jesus Christ
even the Faith  is the Lords we are to act upon /deeds   the greater works   shall be done
  :)
thanks guys for the stimulating  posts  all of you

Good word sis :icon_flower:

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not



Im so glad your led to share once more.... :icon_flower:

Blessings
Gramster

[rosered]

 

  Oh thanks  matey  , I think you do an awesome  job  communicating   Graham
   with so many  ''tongues''    lol     to  speak too  hee hee  your charity /love  is always evident !

1Cr 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


tongues   of men and angels  this lets me know  that  there are two different  and distinct        forms  speech  the earthly and the heavenly



   glōssa  greek 1100



1) the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech

2) a tongue

a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations

  I thank you for your support  , always me bro  love rose

[bobf]

4 . . .

Matthew 24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The things that happened in Revelation are not going to happen to our generation, they've already happened to "that" generation.  We are not to read "into" these verses as though they literally pertain to us . . . they do relate to us, but not on the same level as they related to those who the book was written to. 

Now, for those who still hang on to the belief that it's for us . .tell me, how could that possibly be when Daniel was told to seal it up . . .and 600 years later, Jesus reopened it . . .and then . .John was told "not" to seal it up . .because it was going to happen TWO THOUSAND YEARS LATER????

How could that possibly be?  Christ's words could be fulfilled in that generation and in this generation.

[Nathan]

I'm not sure it would be Biblical to claim what literally happened then is going to literally happen now.  Men have taken the Revelation of Jesus Christ and turned it into a book of doom and gloom.  Those that received it then, made it into a hymnal . . . somewhere between then and now, the truth of what was said has become perverted into this monster that we now use as an intimidation factor to motivate people to come to the cross.

That may have worked in the Old covenant system, but that was done away with when Christ came on the scene.  When one walks in the spirit, one no longer interprets spiritual truth with a literal application . . .again, this is just how I currently see things to be.

We still can't fathom just how great this grace of God is. . . our minds still hold to justice by accountability . . .which means . . .you screw up . .bad things happen as a result of your ignorance, stupidity, rebellion, fear . .the list is endless.

Instead of searching out the darkness in Scripture, it is so much more beneficial to all when we look away from the darkness of that day, and realize it is an illumination of Christ in our day.

The spiritual application of the Word is the only thing that is relevent to today. . . or perhaps, I should say, it is the MOST relevent application for us today.  There is still benefits of knowing the natural stories and applying the moral values . .but as Jesus himself said . .his words are "spirit" and what he says brings life . . .why would the revelation of Jesus Christ written by John be taken any differently?  I choose life.

[bobf]

I'm not sure it would be Biblical to claim what literally happened then is going to literally happen now.

I'm not sure what you mean by "literally".  For example I don't believe there was a literal "woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast with seven heads and ten horns" in any generation.

I believe that the Book of Revelation symbolically portrays spiritual events in the lives of God's elect that lead to the revelation of Jesus Christ within them, and it applies equally to all of God's elect in all generations.

[Molly]

and in Judes letter  verse 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] calledMercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied

Oh my goodness--sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ...

There's the new wine and the new bottle.




sanctified by--the new wine--the blood of Christ--the Spirit of God

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.



preserved in--the new bottle--the body of Christ

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.




Hebrews 10

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;



22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

[Taffy]

Oh my goodness--sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ...

There's the new wine and the new bottle.

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

I'm not sure what you mean by "literally".  For example I don't believe there was a literal "woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast with seven heads and ten horns" in any generation.

By "literally" I mean, Revelation is not a warning for us to expect to see the earth self-destruct in the end.  The things in Revelation are symbolic, yes, but they also happened literally . . .naturally, physically . . .they're not going to keep happening over and over in the physical realm . . .I've heard churches preach this . .not sure it's really accurate.

It was intended to be a physical experience to the original readers . .the 7 churches, the generation of "that" day.  For us, it's to be seen spiritually in the symbolism . . .and "that" is what passes from generation to generation.