This is a verse from revelation but I posted it in this section because it is also (I think) a pro UR verse.
If the crew decides to move this post to the Revelation board I won't be able to reply anymore due to a obscure bug in the forum software/my profile.
Just to let you know that I don't stop responding because my thoughts are debunked. I'll read and think about all the answers!
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Quote1169 deilo,j deilos {di-los'}
Meaning: 1) timid, fearful
Timid is something positive so I assume fearful is meaning fearful in this verse.
And being fearful most likely isn't fear of spiders :laughing7:
But fear of God.
Fear God will torture you for eternity in hell.
Just as God views a murder as someone assaulting His creation He views the fearful as an assault on His gentle and loving character.
He feels insulted by being accused of being worse that satan and all criminals that every walked the earth combined.
So I think:
Fearful = ET believers
Your thoughts? :thinking:
WhiteWings, I've bumped up your post count by an extra thousand to see if this resolves your ability to reply to threads on the book of Revelation board. I believe you indicated that Paul Hazelwood was experiencing the same system glitch, so I did the same thing to his profile. I've moved the two most recent threads that you started that were on the subject of the book of Revelation from the Revelation board over to this Discussions on Universal Salvation board, just in case bumping up your post count doesn't resolve the issue. If the same glitch exists still with your account or with that board's treatment of your account, just let me know if there are any more threads over there that you'd like to reply to that you're not able to and I'll simply move them over here. Check a couple of threads over there and see if the quote button and the reply buttons are back with the increased post count. If they're not, then the problem is something else.
On this thread that you've started: fear is usually not only one of the number one reasons for people rebelling against God and the Gospel, but it winds up being a reason why people lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, withhold the truth, spread lies about others, withhold promotions to those they're in charge of at companies when a promotion was genuinely deserved, withhold important information from their spouses, etc. Fear winds up being a root on most sins when you think it through. It's a root to grief according to St. Paul in 1Thessalonians 4 when he speaks of the return of the Lord on the New Earth so that Christians that are grieving the loss of loved ones won't grieve excessively like worldly people who don't know how it's all going to turn out. Fear is a real motivator of hatred or hateful behaviour because of the self preservation instinct being taken to excessive extremes because it's being magnified with fear beyond the just levels that God created it to be at. The Nazi fears of a Jewish conspiracy to dominate the world at the expense of everyone else led to genocide.
A lot of people would look at the fearful going into the Lake of Fire and think that it's unjust because they'd think that the fearful need comforting rather than what at first glance appears to be [exclusively] either torture or execution, but fear is a broad category that covers all of the above sins that I've described plus so many more.
Martin I tested and PMed you my findings.
I understand your reasoning about fearful.
Lets pick one out. The liars.
You say very often fear is at the base of their lies.
a] Often. So not always. What about the remaing group of fearful?
b] Why are (most) liars mentioned twice? Once as fearful and once as a liar.
I don't see thiefs mentioned in the verse but I assume they are also on 'the list'
That also would mean the word poor should be added. Many very poor people steal food to avoid starvation of their children. (I'm not judging that. I even understand it)
What I'm trying to say is that your explanation has big implications.
Rev 21:8 "Yet the timid, and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and paramours, and enchanters, and idolaters, and all the false-their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."
During that new earth eon in which Christ and God are reigning together, just as there will be no room for the abominable, murdrers, paramours, enchanters and idolaters, there also will be no room for timidity and unbelieving.
If you take Isaiah
Isa 65:17-25 For, behold Me creating new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor shall they come upon the heart." (18) But rather be elated, and exult, in the futures of the future which I will create, for, behold Me creating Jerusalem an exultation, and her people an elation." (19) And I exult in Jerusalem, and I am elated in My people. And no longer shall the sound of lamentation be heard in it, and the sound of an outcry." (20) And no longer shall there be thence a child of few days, or an old man who is not filling his days, for the youth will be a hundred years old, yet the one dying will be a sinner, a hundred years old; he shall be made light of." (21) And they build houses and dwell in them, and they plant vineyards, and eat their fruit." (22) They will not build, and another dwell; they will not plant, and another eat. For as the days of the tree of life are the days of My people, and their handiwork shall be worn out by My chosen." (23) They shall not labor for naught, nor shall they generate for decadence. For the seed of the blessed of Yahweh are they, and their offspring with them." (24) And it comes, ere they are calling, then I will answer; they are still speaking when I will hearken." (25) Then a wolf and a lambkin will graze alike, and the lion, as the beeve, will eat crushed straw, and the serpent has soil for its bread. They will not do evil, nor ruin in all My holy mountain,says Yahweh."
So we see that on the new earth there will be people being born and dying.
Kings and Nations like today:
Rev 21:24 And the nations shall be walking by means of its light, and the kings of the earth are carrying their glory into it."
leaves for healing, people not immortal:
Rev 22:2 In the center of its square, and on either side of the river, is the log of life, producing twelve fruits, rendering its fruit in accord with each month. And the leaves of the log are for the cure of the nations."
So it could be like when Noah and family came over on to the new earth after the flood and began nation building again that people who come on to the new earth after it is destroyed by fire will do nation building once again.
Some of these people born to those whose names are in the book of life will not have the faith of their parents. And so the further from the central influence of the new city Jerusalem most likely the greater the crimes enumerated for those who will receive capital punishment.
Just my thought.
Tony
QuoteWhiteWings, I've bumped up your post count by an extra thousand to see if this resolves your ability to reply to threads on the book of Revelation board.
Martin it seems more then just a few are having this problem as it affects me also.
Quote from: Tony N on October 25, 2008, 09:00:58 PM
Rev 21:8 "Yet the timid, and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and paramours, and enchanters, and idolaters, and all the false-their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."
During that new earth eon in which Christ and God are reigning together, just as there will be no room for the abominable, murdrers, paramours, enchanters and idolaters, there also will be no room for timidity and unbelieving.
If you take Isaiah
Isa 65:17-25 For, behold Me creating new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor shall they come upon the heart." (18) But rather be elated, and exult, in the futures of the future which I will create, for, behold Me creating Jerusalem an exultation, and her people an elation." (19) And I exult in Jerusalem, and I am elated in My people. And no longer shall the sound of lamentation be heard in it, and the sound of an outcry." (20) And no longer shall there be thence a child of few days, or an old man who is not filling his days, for the youth will be a hundred years old, yet the one dying will be a sinner, a hundred years old; he shall be made light of." (21) And they build houses and dwell in them, and they plant vineyards, and eat their fruit." (22) They will not build, and another dwell; they will not plant, and another eat. For as the days of the tree of life are the days of My people, and their handiwork shall be worn out by My chosen." (23) They shall not labor for naught, nor shall they generate for decadence. For the seed of the blessed of Yahweh are they, and their offspring with them." (24) And it comes, ere they are calling, then I will answer; they are still speaking when I will hearken." (25) Then a wolf and a lambkin will graze alike, and the lion, as the beeve, will eat crushed straw, and the serpent has soil for its bread. They will not do evil, nor ruin in all My holy mountain,says Yahweh."
So we see that on the new earth there will be people being born and dying.
Kings and Nations like today:
Rev 21:24 And the nations shall be walking by means of its light, and the kings of the earth are carrying their glory into it."
leaves for healing, people not immortal:
Rev 22:2 In the center of its square, and on either side of the river, is the log of life, producing twelve fruits, rendering its fruit in accord with each month. And the leaves of the log are for the cure of the nations."
So it could be like when Noah and family came over on to the new earth after the flood and began nation building again that people who come on to the new earth after it is destroyed by fire will do nation building once again.
Some of these people born to those whose names are in the book of life will not have the faith of their parents. And so the further from the central influence of the new city Jerusalem most likely the greater the crimes enumerated for those who will receive capital punishment.
Just my thought.
Tony
does that mean someone with a shy personality? B/c my asperger's makes me feel somewhat shy/
There is a big part of this that we need explanation from other texts...
Why wont they be in there and such....
I believe this scripture sums up the best picture for us to bing an easily understandible idea of his goal...
Zephaniah 3
8"Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9"For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder.
God is pouring out the "lake of fire" onto all mankind, as Peter taught after Jesus, The faithful witness was raised, and poured out on all mankind (acts 2) his spirit. The gospel of John taught the holy spirit would convict the world of sin and Jesus needed to leave for this purpose.
And through this pouring out of His zeal, the very thing that excites God, ALL will call on the name of the Lord.
That is how come there will be no liars and adulters etc. because all will go through the divine burning.