Prophecy

[micah7:9]

In my opinion, the entire understanding of the concept of what you speak is cluttered with our(man's) imagination. What we have today, just in America, reveals much of what is expected to happen. When and if we quit looking for "the man" much of what is to be understood will be revealed. In my opinion, again, is the word is "bound." This, as has been stated, is only an opinion. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Expected?  How?

[micah7:9]

Just look around, Molly, you, it's seems are on top of current events just look. :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

Paul had time to reflect before he boarded the train to Jordan.
We all have to get on board one way or an other.
But we only board once.

[ded2daworld]

Wh-a-at??

[redhotmagma]

666 is the number of mankind. Not A man. The word is anthropos. It speaks of flesh as man was created on 6th day.

We are the temple of God. For their to be an abomination in it and it to be a literal man he would have to go around and insert a statue of Zeus inside of each of us.

We are the holy city new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven adorned like a bride.

I agree with Sheila. Look in the mirror and you will see the beast. Paul even speaks of it IMO. We see through a glass darkly is actually we see in a mirror an enigma.

:2c:

[Molly]

It's easy to make a broad sweep like that, RHM.

[In spite of the fact that I don't appreciate being called a 'beast.']

But very specific things are said about the man of perdition that we cannot all possibly fulfill.

That's why I'm asking for characteristics.  You will see once we have a list.

He is a specific man.

[Molly]

Walid Shoebat explains the mark of the beast, 666.

They thought it was 3 Greek symbols.

Then they decided it was gematria for 666.

Then they started putting 666 into the text.

But, Wallid says gematria is witchcraft.  God would not use gematria to communicate with us in the Biblical text.  Nor would God give us a mystery too hard to understand.


So what is it?  He says it's another language other than Greek and he can read it.

It is written in Arabic. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKkwMFvCXMs

[redhotmagma]

Molly does the written word say the number is the number of mankind?  I'd say that is a broad sweep.  All were subjected to futility.  That is adam, the man of sin.  We bear the IMAGE of the man of earth. 
"this wisdom is earthy, demonic"

"All men are beasts"  Sorry I didn't call you a beast, the bible did.  But I am calling you the beast now.  But I'm calling myself the beast.  I know that I don't need some scary world leader to oppose Christ, I can do that well and fine all on my own. 

There is a mystery of lawlessness and the mystery of glory.  They are both hidden now.  But they will be unveiled at the same time.  Until we realize that we are the problem, not some boogey man, then we will still suffer confusion.  We will look in the mirror and only see the enigma.

But we all with unveiled faces (the cherubim veil, the cherubim are beasts in REV, the veil is the flesh in HEB), are reflecting the glory of the Lord as in a mirror.

I know I'm not going to convince you Molly.  And with all that I'm saying I don't totally disregard that there may be an actual manifestation of a literal beast (well not "really" literal because that would be absurd).

[marie glen]

I'm well aware, just saying the REAL power always stays hidden...could that be S-A-T-A-N?

understand.  I'm just saying at the end of the age, it will be revealed.

Everything will be revealed, including the man who Satan chooses to indwell at this time to run his 'unified' world.

And, more than anything else, imo, Satan wants the world to openly worship him.


All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

--Rev 13:8

I absolutely agree Molly. :smile: I find most of God's Word to be very straight forward, but I do agree that each one of us is our own worst enemy! (Except for satan&co). But surely(?) the "beasts" in Bible prophecy are governments, 'kings' and human governings. Was pharoah simply within? Caesar? Titus? Nero? Domitius? I think we try to metaphor it away because it's unpleasant. And surely our wonderful God would never let such occur. But to look at history states differently. (What lesson can really be learned without actually going through it??)
- Besides, Jesus gave very clear signs and referred us to Daniel who even included a sort of calendar to count days and watch (for). Not dates! but is like a counting backward from the 'last' day. "Between the time when the" (world) "removes the daily sacrifice" (or place of? in Israel? CR Mt 24:1,2?).. it, Daniel 12:11,12, says, (11)from the time the daily offerings are removed, til the abomination of desolation (amplified bible calls 666) is "set up" shall be 3 and 1/2 (Hebrew) years. (12) Happy the one who makes it to 45 days later.
- What "happy" event occurs "45 days later"? ("Unless those days be cut short none would survive.")
Some Bible prophecy is, I'll agree, hard to understand, but these verses seem real clear to me.
- I'm afraid I'm totally 'obsessed' with "truth". It's what made hell,etc, so totally lacking in logic to me.  Another topic I just had/have to know the truth of, is Bible prophecy (and also history is tops). What good does the Word/Truth do me if my perception of it isn't "true"!? I was very fortunate to be able to be a stay at home mom and once the children went to school I spent my days praying and prayerfully contemplating these things. I'm sure we all do that, but I had a lot of free time, for quite a stretch, I could devote to study and prayer. BiG :smile:
- There were 3 or 4 things I learned, along with Daniel 12, 11 and 12, which gave me the opinion and perception I have of 'end' days prophecy. One is the two migrations of rev chapter 12 which I think I posted earlier in this thread. And then there's Rev 13:13. It's plain to see there are two beasts on the world scene here, the one of verses 1-10 and the one of verses 11-18. Verse 13:13 pinpoints (for those who want to know or want to watch) the office from which the second one comes from (or proceeds from?) the "man" (beast) for we have his number, and yes 6 is the number of man, I agree with that.
- But look at 13:13 "It (beast 11-18) worked mighty miracles, and while people watched, it even made fire come down from the sky."
- I guess I should start with how the Book of Revelation has been 'locked' (for a time). Perhaps you've noticed it too. Right off the bat, we read the book wrong! With thinking the 7 seals occur late on the scene. Not so! The rider on a whiTe horse who triumphed ("making a shew openly over principalities and powers" aka triumphed openly over the 'gods' of the old age).. this rider on a white horse is surely none other than Christ and He and His gospel "went out conquering and to conquer" with His ride, march and gallop continuing throughout the latter age, as each seal does. And the seven seals are the seven most prominent elements of the latter age, the years of our Lord A.D. - Notice how the horse and rider of war "is given a long sword" (translated "great" sword, "long" sword in different versions).
-- The thing about the seals of God is they are described in chapter six, each one, as a blend of what it is when 1st beginning/Opened/unsealed, and also what it is in its full blown form at 'the end'. This really does hide the vision for many days. It's like a twofold cord, these descriptions of the 7 Seals, one cord being what it is at its very beginning, and the other cord what it is at the very 'end' in its fully galloped or fully accelerated form.
- Because of this, things which occur very late upon planet earth, are described here, in chapter 6, so very early in the vision and writing. This efficiently has obscured and confused the understanding of the book. [Verses 6:12 to 7:2 is a direct cross reference to verses 13:13.]
- Therefor, the occurrence of 13:13 is thought to happen very late in the scheme of things, and, "while people watched" (on the evening news?) "it (2nd beast of chapter 13, the man and office of verses 13:11-18) made fire come down from the sky in the sight of people." Once we know these things, I don't know how we can help but consider this fire.. a new sort of fire brought from the sky occurred in 1945 over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and we can still watch it easily enough these days, if we have a mind to.

...I don't know why I got into all that :rolllol: when all I wanted to say is we don't have to metaphor it away, it only occurs, for the most part, for 45 days. With the clear signs given, it won't be hard for our kids(?) or in my case, grand kids(?) to avoid and be the ones "happy who come to the 45 days later" or that is, after the 45 days (35 days being the fulfillment of Rev 13:17,no buying or selling w/o, and the last "ten days" escalating to Rev 20:4,beheaded?
- Considering the flawed nature of humans and how we always seem to fall short so very, very often, if not always, down through history. I wouldn't be surprised if they go into and through those days not armed with the Words Jesus intended for them. Although! Praise God! :smile: Jesus and the Spirit (and Presence) of God is very able! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob: :banana:

[Molly]

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
--Rev 13


It says 'a man.'


"a man"
G444
ανθρωπος
anthrōpos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ωψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.



But it also says count the number of the beast, so at the same time, it is many men.

Revelation 13 is talking about a specific man.  So here is a man that counts his number among many men who use this symbol "666' or what Walid says it is.

So it is a beast kingdom that is run by a beast [Antichrist, with indwelt Satan.]

:2cents:

[marie glen]

Molly does the written word say the number is the number of mankind?  I'd say that is a broad sweep.  All were subjected to futility.  That is adam, the man of sin.  We bear the IMAGE of the man of earth. 
"this wisdom is earthy, demonic"

"All men are beasts" ... ...Until we realize that we are the problem, not some boogey man....

I agree we are the problem, but even further than that, or the root of it, is 'free will' or rather every body (man and angel) going their own way, will not, and simply can not, ever, work. God is Perfection, and also Life itself (what else could be?). So to choose any teeny tiny thing which disagrees with God's choice or perception of any thing at all, only ends up "in" im-perfection, the opposite of Life. Can't be done.. ever.. no way.. no how..
- That's the truth which (knowing good from evil / life from death) we are all (man and angel) chewing on..

[Molly]

There is a mystery of lawlessness and the mystery of glory.  They are both hidden now.  But they will be unveiled at the same time.  Until we realize that we are the problem, not some boogey man, then we will still suffer confusion.  We will look in the mirror and only see the enigma.

The 'mystery' of lawlessness refers to the occult religions I believe.  That word, musterion, refers to secred rites and initiation given to members of a religious group.  That word is also used  by Paul for the 'mystery revealed to the saints, Christ in you.'  This is a secret which has been kept from the world for generations, and only revealed to the inner circle.  Even today that is true.

I believe the mystery [occult] religions are alive and well today.  This is the 'man-kingdom' of Daniel 2 seen in the vision.   It is a kingdom run by beasts for beasts, which is why it is so tyrannical and cruel,  so lacking in any human quality of love, kindness, and mercy.

But, don't believe me, look around at the pyramids, triangles, obelisks--what relevance do they have to anyone?  Only the initiates know.  'It's a secret," he told the reporter when asked.   A thousand points of light, he called it.  Why only 1000?

They hate human beings and want them dead, every last one.  Wasn't Satan a murderer from the beginning?

[Molly]

I'm well aware, just saying the REAL power always stays hidden...could that be S-A-T-A-N?

understand.  I'm just saying at the end of the age, it will be revealed.

Everything will be revealed, including the man who Satan chooses to indwell at this time to run his 'unified' world.

And, more than anything else, imo, Satan wants the world to openly worship him.


All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

--Rev 13:8

I absolutely agree Molly. :smile: I find most of God's Word to be very straight forward, but I do agree that each one of us is our own worst enemy! (Except for satan&co). But surely(?) the "beasts" in Bible prophecy are governments, 'kings' and human governings. Was pharoah simply within? Caesar? Titus? Nero? Domitius? I think we try to metaphor it away because it's unpleasant. And surely our wonderful God would never let such occur. But to look at history states differently. (What lesson can really be learned without actually going through it??)
- Besides, Jesus gave very clear signs and referred us to Daniel who even included a sort of calendar to count days and watch (for). Not dates! but is like a counting backward from the 'last' day. "Between the time when the" (world) "removes the daily sacrifice" (or place of? in Israel? CR Mt 24:1,2?).. it, Daniel 12:11,12, says, (11)from the time the daily offerings are removed, til the abomination of desolation (amplified bible calls 666) is "set up" shall be 3 and 1/2 (Hebrew) years. (12) Happy the one who makes it to 45 days later.
- What "happy" event occurs "45 days later"? ("Unless those days be cut short none would survive.")
Some Bible prophecy is, I'll agree, hard to understand, but these verses seem real clear to me.
- I'm afraid I'm totally 'obsessed' with "truth". It's what made hell,etc, so totally lacking in logic to me.  Another topic I just had/have to know the truth of, is Bible prophecy (and also history is tops). What good does the Word/Truth do me if my perception of it isn't "true"!? I was very fortunate to be able to be a stay at home mom and once the children went to school I spent my days praying and prayerfully contemplating these things. I'm sure we all do that, but I had a lot of free time, for quite a stretch, I could devote to study and prayer. BiG :smile:
- There were 3 or 4 things I learned, along with Daniel 12, 11 and 12, which gave me the opinion and perception I have of 'end' days prophecy. One is the two migrations of rev chapter 12 which I think I posted earlier in this thread. And then there's Rev 13:13. It's plain to see there are two beasts on the world scene here, the one of verses 1-10 and the one of verses 11-18. Verse 13:13 pinpoints (for those who want to know or want to watch) the office from which the second one comes from (or proceeds from?) the "man" (beast) for we have his number, and yes 6 is the number of man, I agree with that.
- But look at 13:13 "It (beast 11-18) worked mighty miracles, and while people watched, it even made fire come down from the sky."
- I guess I should start with how the Book of Revelation has been 'locked' (for a time). Perhaps you've noticed it too. Right off the bat, we read the book wrong! With thinking the 7 seals occur late on the scene. Not so! The rider on a whiTe horse who triumphed ("making a shew openly over principalities and powers" aka triumphed openly over the 'gods' of the old age).. this rider on a white horse is surely none other than Christ and He and His gospel "went out conquering and to conquer" with His ride, march and gallop continuing throughout the latter age, as each seal does. And the seven seals are the seven most prominent elements of the latter age, the years of our Lord A.D. - Notice how the horse and rider of war "is given a long sword" (translated "great" sword, "long" sword in different versions).
-- The thing about the seals of God is they are described in chapter six, each one, as a blend of what it is when 1st beginning/Opened/unsealed, and also what it is in its full blown form at 'the end'. This really does hide the vision for many days. It's like a twofold cord, these descriptions of the 7 Seals, one cord being what it is at its very beginning, and the other cord what it is at the very 'end' in its fully galloped or fully accelerated form.
- Because of this, things which occur very late upon planet earth, are described here, in chapter 6, so very early in the vision and writing. This efficiently has obscured and confused the understanding of the book. [Verses 6:12 to 7:2 is a direct cross reference to verses 13:13.]
- Therefor, the occurrence of 13:13 is thought to happen very late in the scheme of things, and, "while people watched" (on the evening news?) "it (2nd beast of chapter 13, the man and office of verses 13:11-18) made fire come down from the sky in the sight of people." Once we know these things, I don't know how we can help but consider this fire.. a new sort of fire brought from the sky occurred in 1945 over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and we can still watch it easily enough these days, if we have a mind to.

...I don't know why I got into all that :rolllol: when all I wanted to say is we don't have to metaphor it away, it only occurs, for the most part, for 45 days. With the clear signs given, it won't be hard for our kids(?) or in my case, grand kids(?) to avoid and be the ones "happy who come to the 45 days later" or that is, after the 45 days (35 days being the fulfillment of Rev 13:17,no buying or selling w/o, and the last "ten days" escalating to Rev 20:4,beheaded?
- Considering the flawed nature of humans and how we always seem to fall short so very, very often, if not always, down through history. I wouldn't be surprised if they go into and through those days not armed with the Words Jesus intended for them. Although! Praise God! :smile: Jesus and the Spirit (and Presence) of God is very able! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob: :banana:

This is so complicated and deep, Marie.

If you could feed it to us slowly, in baby spoons.... :girlheart:

[marie glen]

Walid Shoebat explains the mark of the beast, 666.

They thought it was 3 Greek symbols.

Then they decided it was gematria for 666.

Then they started putting 666 into the text.

But, Wallid says gematria is witchcraft.  God would not use gematria to communicate with us in the Biblical text.  Nor would God give us a mystery too hard to understand.


So what is it?  He says it's another language other than Greek and he can read it.

It is written in Arabic. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKkwMFvCXMs

That link is awesome.. I love Walid Shoebat! I'm going back and watch some more videos with him speaking. This one made perfect and veRy good sense.. and, as he says it fits today's world..  I wouldn't be surprised tho if in the doing of it, it's a tatoo or done by computer or tracking devise under the skin.. and, or behavior or mind control.. But it's the best translation of this I've ever heard... certainly fits with rev 20:4.

[Molly]

Therefor, the occurrence of 13:13 is thought to happen very late in the scheme of things, and, "while people watched" (on the evening news?) "it (2nd beast of chapter 13, the man and office of verses 13:11-18) made fire come down from the sky in the sight of people." Once we know these things, I don't know how we can help but consider this fire.. a new sort of fire brought from the sky occurred in 1945 over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and we can still watch it easily enough these days, if we have a mind to

I agree that 'nuclear bombs' are talked about in the Bible, in more than one place.  What else could turn a city into total destruction overnight, so that nothing will ever live there again but jackals.   But, I'll say this--I am not convinced they have nuclear bombs in the way they have been described to us.  I decided a while ago that Japan was firebombed.  Go look at the pictures.  Nothing would be standing if it were nuclear, but anything that is not wood is still standing [those cities were mostly wood buildings].  And, they were populated and rebuilt again very quickly, unlike Chernobyl which is a wasteland to this day.  This is not to say that they cannot spread radiation all over the place to make people sick.  But, what they have described most likely does not exist, it is a Hollywood production.   Although that is cold comfort considering the damage they can do with modern incendiary devices.

[marie glen]

If you could feed it to us slowly, in baby spoons.... :girlheart:

:smile: Revelation 13:13

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
the one this thread is talking about, the '666' guy is an office:
13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.
...It occurred in 1945 over Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

It's a mis-interpretion to see the 7 Seals of God as occurring at the very 'end'. These 7 Seals are actually for the whole 'latter' age which is the years of our Lord A.D. therefor also, Revelation 13:13 "..he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men" did not occur so very close to the 'end' as many think. But occurred in 1945 with the opening of atomic warfare. It's a direct cross reference with Rev 6:12 to 7:2 - notice how this new wind (opened) is held back / paused for a while... [verse 7:1 "four angels stand at the four corners" I believe it goes "holding back the wind.." This new wind which was the Opening of the 6th Seal, and the Opening of atomic warfare capability.. a long sword given to the 2nd horse and rider who is war.]

It was also a u.s president who first had the idea of a world body.. the League of Nations. This League expired when its head, the U.S. did not, after all, sign on. But this world body was resurrected after Rev 13:13 upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened (13:14). And when the head (the U.S.) does fully support the world body, it will give breath (authority) to the world beast/body (verse 13:15). I believe a person who has previously at the time, been a U.S. president will become Secretary General of the U.N. (As with so many things doesn't necessarily start out as 'evil' but gets used, abused, infiltrated..)

P.S/edit: when i prayed earnestly to understand Bible prophecy, what came to mind immediately was a question "what are the strongest forces at work upon mankind today?" ...for one thing, a world body is what is referred to by politicians as a new world order..

[marie glen]

" Chernobyl " Rev 6:8, "I looked, and behold, a pale horse; and he who sat on it had the name Death; and Hades" (the grave) "was following with him. Authority was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by the wild beasts of the earth." -- this is the 4th horse and rider, pestilence including chemical.. and / also (via) wild beasts / wild governments / terrorists? When all is said and done, from the first to the last pestilence and plague of the latter age of man, including chemical, kills 1/4 of the earth.

[marie glen]

Walid Shoebat explains the mark of the beast, 666.

They thought it was 3 Greek symbols.

Then they decided it was gematria for 666.

Then they started putting 666 into the text.

But, Wallid says gematria is witchcraft.  God would not use gematria to communicate with us in the Biblical text.  Nor would God give us a mystery too hard to understand.


So what is it?  He says it's another language other than Greek and he can read it.

It is written in Arabic. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKkwMFvCXMs

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2009/03/dont_say_a_word.html - A U.N. resolution seeks to criminalize opinions that differ with the Islamic faith.

This article ends with this: "Watch what you say, because our declared intention is to criminalize opinions that differ with the one true faith. Let nobody say that they have not been warned."

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/09/25/obama-at-the-un-the-future-must-not-belong-to-those-who-slander-the-prophet-of-islam/ - Obama at the UN: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam"

http://www.meforum.org/477/islamism-grows-stronger-at-the-united-nations - (a beginning in earnest?)
Article: Islamism Grows Stronger at the United Nations - by David Littman, Middle East Quarterly, September 1999, pp. 59-64
David Littman, a historian, is a representative to the United Nations (Geneva) of the Association for World Education.
- "In recent years, representatives of some Muslim states have demanded, and often received, special treatment at the United Nations mostly via the Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR). As a result, non-diplomatic terms such as "blasphemy" and defamation of Islam" have seeped into the United Nations system, leading to a situation in which non-Muslim governments accept certain rules of conduct in conformity with Islamic law (the Shari`a)...

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2012/November/Islamic-Sharia-Law-Comes-to-Great-Britain/ - "Dec 26, 2012 – Stoning for adultery. Amputations for theft. Death for apostates. And second-class status for Christians and Jews. This is life under Sharia law and it's alive and well in, of all places, Great Britain.. .. The courts have popped up in several British cities with large Muslim populations, including Birmingham, Bradford, Manchester, and London... impoverished borough has been dubbed "The Islamic Republic of Tower Hamlets." Its first elected mayor is a Muslim who critics say has ties to extremist groups. His office declined CBN News's request for an interview. Radical Muslims have threatened women there for not covering up, and gays have been beaten in the streets... "If people are afraid of having their hands cut, don't steal," UK Islamist leader Anjem Choduary said. "If you don't want to be stoned to death, don't commit adultery." Choudary wants Sharia law to rule Great Britain... So could Sharia courts come to America? The idea sounds far-fetched to some. According to the Center for Security Policy in Washington, there have been some 50 court cases in at least 23 states that have seen conflicts between Sharia law and American state law. And four states have adopted legislation, called "American Laws for American Courts," that would protect U.S. citizens from the use of any type of foreign law, like Sharia, in the courtroom. In East London, Craig said the fight against Sharia is much more than a religious or legal issue. "It's actually a human rights thing," he said. "And we're working in partnership with non-Christians as well on this trying to bolster and strengthen the position for Muslim women.""

[redhotmagma]

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
--Rev 13


It says 'a man.'


"a man"
G444
ανθρωπος
anthrōpos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ωψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.



But it also says count the number of the beast, so at the same time, it is many men.

Revelation 13 is talking about a specific man.  So here is a man that counts his number among many men who use this symbol "666' or what Walid says it is.

So it is a beast kingdom that is run by a beast [Antichrist, with indwelt Satan.]

:2cents:

Here's the definition I see (blueletterbible.com, netbible)

From ἀνήρ (G435) and ops (the countenance, from ὀπτάνομαι (G3700)); man-faced, i.e. a human being) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt
and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman

This is from Vines
Man (See Also Men):

is used
(a) generally, of "a human being, male or female," without reference to sex or nationality, e.g., Mat 4:4; 12:35; Jhn 2:25;

(b) in distinction from God, e.g., Mat 19:6; Jhn 10:33; Gal 1:11; Col 3:23;

(c) in distinction from animals, etc., e.g., Luk 5:10;

(d) sometimes, in the plural, of "men and women," people, e.g., Mat 5:13, 16; in Mar 11:2; 1Ti 6:16, lit., "no one of men;"

(e) in some instances with a suggestion of human frailty and imperfection, e.g., 1Cr 2:5; Act 14:15 (2nd part);

(f) in the phrase translated "after man," "after the manner of men," "as a man" (AV), lit. "according to (kata) man," is used only by the Apostle Paul, of "

(1) the practices of fallen humanity, 1Cr 3:3;

(2) anything of human origin, Gal 1:11;

(3) the laws that govern the administration of justice among men, Rom 3:5;

(4) the standard generally accepted among men, Gal 3:15;

(5) an illustration not drawn from Scripture, 1Cr 9:8;

(6) probably = 'to use a figurative expression' (see AV, marg.), i.e., to speak evil of men with whom he had contended at Ephesus as 'beasts' (cp. 1Cr 4:6), 1Cr 15:32; Lightfoot prefers 'from worldly motives'; but the other interpretation, No. (4), seems to make better sense. See also Rom 6:19, where, however, the Greek is slightly different, anthropinos, 'pertaining to mankind;'" the meaning is as Nos. (5) and (6). *
[* From Notes on Galatians, by Hogg and Vine, p. 139.]

(g) in the phrase "the inward man," the regenerate person's spiritual nature personified, the inner self of the believer, Rom 7:22, as approving of the law of God; in Eph 3:16, as the sphere of the renewing power of the Holy Spirit; in 2Cr 4:16 (where anthropos is not repeated), in contrast to "the outward man," the physical frame, the "man" as congnizable by the senses; the "inward" man is identical with "the hidden man of the heart," 1Pe 3:4.

(h) in the expressions "the old man," "the new man," which are confined to Paul's Epistles, the former standing for the unregenerate nature personified as the former self of a believer, which, having been crucified with Christ, Rom 6:6, is to be apprehended practically as such, and to be "put off," Eph 4:22; Col 3:9, being the source and seat of sin; the latter, "the new man," standing for the new nature personified as the believer's regenerate self, a nature "created in righteousness and holiness of truth," Eph 4:24, and having been "put on" at regeneration, Col 3:10; being "renewed after the image of Him that created him," it is to be "put on" in pratical apprehension of these facts.

(i) often joined with another noun, e.g., Mat 11:19, lit., "a man, a glutton;" Mat 13:52, lit., "a man, a householder;" Mat 18:23, "a certain king," lit., "a man, a king."

(j) as equivalent simply to "a person," or "one," whether "man" or woman, e.g., Act 19:16; Rom 3:28; Gal 2:16; Jam 1:19; 2:24; 3:8 (like the pronoun tis, "someone;" tis is rendered "man" in Mat 8:28); or, again (as tis sometimes signifies), "a man," e.g., Mat 17:14; Luk 13:19.

(k) definitely, with the article, of some particular person, Mat 12:13; Mar 3:3, 5; or with the demonstrative pronoun and the article, e.g., Mat 12:45; Luk 14:30. For the phrase "the Son of man" see SON OF MAN. For "the man of sin," 2Th 2:3, see INIQUITY, No. 1.

(l) in the phrase "the man of God," 2Ti 3:17, not used as an official designation, nor denoting a special class of believers, it specifies what every believer should be, namely, a person whose life and conduct represent the mind of God and fulfill His will; so in 1Ti 6:11, "O man of God." Some regard this in the OT sense as of a prophet acting in a distinctive character, possessed of Divine authority; but the context is of such a general character as to confirm the more extended designation here.

Notes:

(1) In Gal 3:28, the RV adds the italicized word "man" ("ye all are one man in Christ Jesus"), in accordance with Eph 2:15, which speaks of Jew and Gentile as becoming "one new man" in Christ. The figure is closely analogous to that of "the body." In these two passages "one" is masculine, i.e., "one person;" in Jhn 10:30; 11:52; 17:21, 22, 23, "one" is neuter, "one thing," as in 1Cr 3:8; 11:5. The first two, in Gal. 3 and Eph. 2, express vital union, present and eternal; in John 17 the union is moral, a process in course of accomplishment.

(2) For philanthropia, Tts 3:4, "(His) love toward man," see KIND, C, No. 2.

(3) In Rev 9:20, the RV translates the genitive plural of anthropos with the article, "mankind" (AV, "the men"); it might have been rendered "(the rest) of men."

I'm not saying it can't mean a man.  But the vast majority of uses are mankind.    I'm not quite sure where REv 13 states that this is a specific man???
   

[Molly]

I think you have to give the translators some credit, RHM.  They mostly get it right.  And, all of them say 'a man' in Revelation 13:18.   When confronted with this phrase that they didn't understand or couldn't read, they assumed it must compute to a number because the sentence uses the phrase, compute the number, or count  the number [arithmos], so this man is associated with other men by this symbol.   Also we are told these other men worship the beast and they are not written in the lamb's book of life.

So I think when the translators were confronted with symbols [which they thought were Greek symbols] that didn't make sense to them, they assumed it was an actual number and based on gematria and arrived at 666 or, in some cases, 616.  It makes sense they would be looking for a literal number, especially if Walid is right, and this is actually a phrase written in Arabic that would not be seen for another 600 years.

Then, it becomes a game of telephone.  I can see where the number 6 might be associated with 'Man', but why the number 666 or the number 616?  And,we want to identify one man in particular, so why would it refer to the number of letters in his name, adding up to 18 letters, or 666?  That's going to include a huge number of people of all different types.  How does that help identify him?  And, what relationship would 666 have to his followers?

But, if it is not Greek at all, as Walid says, but an Arabic phrase that no one would have seen yet at the time John wrote it out [John was shown the phrase in his vision but most likely did not know what it meant so he just relayed it as it visually looked to him]  then it makes more sense why it is as mysterious to John as it was to the translators.

Whatever this number or phrase is, it will be recognized by end time Christians.  We have to assume this or why give it to us to identify a characteristic of the Antichrist and his followers?

This is why what Walid says is so compelling to me.  When he wrote out the phrase, I recognized it.  Yet, I wouldn't have  recognized it until recently [last 5 years or so] because until recently it hadn't  been relevant to me.  I do not read Arabic.   Yet this phrase is even written as graffiti now in some American cities and it is seen on the armbands and headbands of jihadists.   Is Walid right?   The only way to know for sure is to check what he says against the original text.   I can't do that, but I have no reason to think he would make something like this up.  When he saw the phrase in the original text, he said, I can read this.  It is Arabic.


All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.  Rev 13:8


Those who worship the beast are not written in the book of life, so they are not Christians.  So it follows that those associated with this symbol of the Antichrist are not Christians, as well.





Grrffitti written on US consulate in Benghazi

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012/09/12/libyan-officials-us-ambassador-killed-in-attack/57752828/1



The mark of the beast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=820u_9Odw6M

[redhotmagma]

Molly, I had written something pretty similar to this link http://eutychusnerd.blogspot.com/2010/07/mark-of-beast-is-islam-walid-shoebat.html on my phone over the weekend but lost it. 

Mr. Shoebat has made many assumptions, and false statements like saying the picture is from the wrong codex that doesn't even contain REV.  If you start digging in you will see that he is likely a fraud.  This is coming from all sides of the spectrum (not that it necessarily makes what he is saying wrong, but tends to weaken his case).

[Lazarus Short]

666 is the number of mankind. Not A man. The word is anthropos. It speaks of flesh as man was created on 6th day.

We are the temple of God. For their to be an abomination in it and it to be a literal man he would have to go around and insert a statue of Zeus inside of each of us.

We are the holy city new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven adorned like a bride.

I agree with Sheila. Look in the mirror and you will see the beast. Paul even speaks of it IMO. We see through a glass darkly is actually we see in a mirror an enigma.

:2c:

A very wise fellow on ATS stated that 666 is the number of mankind, because we are "carbon units," as in that old Star Trek episode.  Carbon has six protons, six neutrons, and six electrons.

[redhotmagma]

Yes Laz, I forgot about that.  (although I think Molly and I have been around this circle a few times in this thread, so I may have posted that somewhere in the past in this thread)

[Molly]

Molly, I had written something pretty similar to this link http://eutychusnerd.blogspot.com/2010/07/mark-of-beast-is-islam-walid-shoebat.html on my phone over the weekend but lost it. 

Mr. Shoebat has made many assumptions, and false statements like saying the picture is from the wrong codex that doesn't even contain REV.  If you start digging in you will see that he is likely a fraud.  This is coming from all sides of the spectrum (not that it necessarily makes what he is saying wrong, but tends to weaken his case).

That author says 666 is Nero.  Is that your position?

I disagree with you regarding Walid.  I consider him an inspired speaker, raised by God for this generation.

We can agree to disagree.  Count the number of [followers of] Muhammad.  It is about to surpass the number of Christians.

And, according to them, you and I are 'infidels.'

Have you watched this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=820u_9Odw6M



How about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Fif-mt4G6ZQ