Eze 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Anyone have any idea what this is talking about. It is repeated three time, verbatim, in Ezekiel 14.
:dontknow:
After a quick reading of the chapter I take it to mean that if those three righteous men were in a city that the Lord is judging their lives would be spared alone, not those of their sons or daughters, but theirs alone. For "the soul who is sinning will die".
:Chinscratch: Very intersting..
..after reading a bit, I'm thinking God considered Noah, Daniel and Job as righteous, but their righteousness would only be imputed to their own selves.. I wonder how the LORD would keep them safe?
:Chinscratch: perhaps Ps 91:? "only with your eyes will you see the destruction of the wicked.." ..?
Young's Literal Translation of verse 13 goes like this - "Son of man, the land -- when it sinneth against Me to commit a trespass, and I have stretched out My hand against it, and broken for it the staff of bread, and sent into it famine, and cut off from it man and beast --"
But the Living Bible says it like this - "Son of dust, if the people of a land sin against me, then I will crush them with my fist, break off their food supply, and send famine to destroy both man and beast."
This translation I find most interesting also, New American Standard - "Son of man, if a country sins against Me by committing unfaithfulness, and I stretch out My hand against it, destroy its supply of bread, send famine against it and cut off from it both man and beast"
..but then again so is the KJ - "Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it"
..and the New KJ - "Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it; I will cut off its supply of bread, send famine on it, and cut off man and beast from it."
.."14 even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord God."
in contrast? Hebrews 11:7 - "By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith."
:Chinscratch: in comparison Daniel also spoke warning.. and Job..?
Yes, after a second reading, He is definitely stressing the fact that He is going to destroy ALL who are not righteous in the land, and He will not spare the land for those three righteous men, but He will spare their lives only. The point He is driving home, imo, is make sure each one of you has a right standing before me, because when I judge a city I will not spare your life just because your best friend (or father/mother, etc) is righteous.
Quote from: lomarah on July 16, 2014, 03:36:39 PM
Yes, after a second reading, He is definitely stressing the fact that He is going to destroy ALL who are not righteous in the land, and He will not spare the land for those three righteous men, but He will spare their lives only. The point He is driving home, imo, is make sure each one of you has a right standing before me, because when I judge a city I will not spare your life just because your best friend (or father/mother, etc) is righteous.
:iagree: :iagree:
..with your 1st reply to this too! as opposed to Noah whose ark saved his household.. (i was reading and replying during your posting :)
For me , I noted , these three prayed faithfully and fervently helping on behalf of others !! that seems to be ''the prayers of a righteous man avails much '
Noah prayed in faith and warned those about to be destroyed by a flood
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
Daniel prayed Dan 9 20 Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God, 21 while I was still speaking in prayer, then the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision previously, came to me in my extreme weariness about the time of the evening offering
and Job prayed on behalf of his friends ignorance in his suffering 42 ;10 God Blesses Job
10 The LORD restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the LORD increased all that Job had twofold. 11Then all his brothers and all his sisters and all who had known him before came to him, and they ate bread with him in his house; and they consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the LORD had brought on him. And each one gave him one piece of money, and each a ring of gold....
James 3 '15and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
without faith its impossible to please God !! faith is a very precious thing to posses faith as Jesus Christ proved over and over in His earthly ministry and new testament
love what you said Lomarah and Marie :HeartThrob:
Saintwalee that was a great question I had also asked !! Thanks to you all :angel5: :icon_flower:
:cloud9: Really interesting..... :thumbsup:
Similar to Sodom and Gomorah, in that only Lot, with his household, was spared.
Different from Sodom and Gomorah in that God would not allow the intercessions of these three men to turn away the determined kolassis, as perhaps could have happenned with Abraham had there been a few more righteous in S & G.
Daniels intercession for Israel -Dan 9:7 "Righteousness belongs to You, O Lord, but to us open shame, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those who are nearby and those who are far away in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of their unfaithful deeds which they have committed against You. 8 Open shame belongs to us, O Lord, to our kings, our princes and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong compassion and forgiveness,for we have rebelled against Him; 10 nor have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His teachings which He set before us through His servants the prophets. 11 Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him. 12 Thus He has confirmed His words which He had spoken against us and against our rulers who ruled us, to bring on us great calamity; for under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what was done to Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this calamity has come on us; yet we have not sought the favor of the Lord our God by turning from our iniquity and giving attention to Your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept the calamity in store and brought it on us; for the Lord our God is righteous with respect to all His deeds which He has done, but we have not obeyed His voice.
15 "And now, O Lord our God, who have brought Your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand and have made a name for Yourself, as it is this day—we have sinned, we have been wicked. 16 O Lord, in accordance with all Your righteous acts, let now Your anger and Your wrath turn away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; for because of our sins and the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people have become a reproach to all those around us. 17 So now, our God, listen to the prayer of Your servant and to his supplications, and for Your sake, O Lord, let Your face shine on Your desolate sanctuary. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear! Open Your eyes and see our desolations and the city which is called by Your name; for we are not presenting our supplications before You on account of any merits of our own, but on account of Your great compassion. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and take action! For Your own sake, O my God, do not delay, because Your city and Your people are called by Your name."
Many thanks for the replies!
As I was meditating on that after the post, I also saw that we are each responsible for our own faith, and that the faith of a righteous person cannot save others. In another section of Ezekiel, it goes into that very topic talking about the sin's of a father and the sin's of a son, that they are each responsible for their own righteousness.
Upon reading chapters13-15, I did see, however, that the focus was on the false prophets at the time. Those false prophets were basically saying that nothing bad was going to happen to Israel, thus pacifying the people. Job, Noah and Daniel testified of God's revelation to them and by their faith, endured the tribulations brought upon them. Those three, and Ezekiel where professing God's righteous judgment.
In Chapter 3, the Lord God tells Ezekiel that it is the duty of a prophet to for-warn the unrighteous:
Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
I think Chapter 14 is expounding on the responsibility of prophets.
This would definitely be true of Jesus, what bigger warning could Jerusalem had than God Himself testifying before them. They truly were warned, but did not repent, and thus the judgment fell.
Thanks again for the replies!
Wow , well said , Saintwalee !!!
Its all about learning HIS truth and righteousness and helping others to come out from Babylon [confusion by mixing ] by sharing in the SAME witness of Jesus Christ to God in glory and praise ! :iagree:
John 1:7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He is faithful as promised and gathering into Himself , the Body of Christ /true church
23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.
25Brethren, pray for us....
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.
1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Thessalonians 2:12
encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory.
2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
:cloud9: After rereading this topic, what I instantly saw was that each was doing the "work" of the High Priest, ie. praying for himself and then the others sins. Never noticed that before....wow. Great thread. Blessings....
Each of them was also given ar a time of great change. Noah fro the first age to the second, Samuel for the transition into the kingdom of David, Daniel for Israel in captivity.
:cloud9: Another excellent "overview". I love it when you can see the bigger picture..... :thumbsup:
I always thought Job the oldest book of the bible ?
I looked this up a long time ago,, many years ago on line
I guess we all have to take this with a grain of salt
Question:
Which book is believed to be the oldest book in the Bible? I found the following points:
Many scholars agree that Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written by an unknown Israelite about 1500 B.C.
Others hold that the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) are the oldest books in the Bible, written between 1446 and 1406 B.C.
Job is generally considered to have been written first, but it is not altogether clear when and by whom.
The fact that we do not know who wrote it or exactly when does not negate its worth authenticity and value in teaching God's inspired word.
Answer:
Job is believed to have been written around the time of Abraham for the following reasons:
It takes place during the Patriarchal Age when heads of families offered sacrifices to God (Job 1:5; 42:7-9). And heads of families received instruction from God (Job 22:22; 23:12).
It contains no hints regarding Abraham, Moses, Israel, the Judges, the Kings, or Prophets of Israel. Nor is there any mention of the Law of Moses.
The rapid drift into idolatry does not appear to have happened yet. All mentioned still believe in the God of creation (Job 27:3; 33:4-6).
There are mentions of the creation (Job 9:8-9; 12:7-10; 26:13; 38:4), the fall of man (Job 31:33, 40; 34:14-15), the flood (Job 12:14-15; 22:15-17), the covenant of Noah (Job 26:10; 38:8-11), and the scattering of the people (Job 12:17, 20-25).
A number of the ancient tribes or nations still retain names closely associated with those who were scattered: Chaldeans (Job 1:17), Cush (or Ethiopia) (Job 28:19), Ophir (Job 28:16), Sabaeans (Job 1:15), Sheba (Job 6:19), Uz (Job 1:1).
There are mentions of names closely associated to Abraham. Multiple people could have the same name, but often names come and go in fads:
Tema (Job 6:19) was a son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:15)
Teman (Job 2:11) was a grandson of Esau (Genesis 36:15)
Shuah (Job 2:11) was a son of Abraham and Keturah (Genesis 25:2)
Buz (Job 32:2) was a nephew of Abraham (Genesis 22:21)
The length of lifespans was still high. Job lived 140 years after the main events of the concluded and Job was already an old man (Job 42:16).
The book of Genesis appears to be a collection of earlier records edited by Moses. (See "An Introduction to Genesis" for more details). So in one sense the elements of the collection are older records, for one is the records of Adam (Genesis 5:1), but if you only count from the time they were assembled by Moses, then they would come after Job.
:cloud9: That's very interesting..... :thumbsup:
I think I got one of my guys wrong LOLOL
:cloud9: That's ok, I got the principle of it and it blessed me. This morning I see Moses and Job as doing that same work. Got to meditate on this one awhile. :Chinscratch: That's a good thing. :Peace2:
one out of family.two from a village. the salt....
Yeah, it seems maybe that was about those three guys being blessed to be ones through whom others were saved kind of like shadows of Christ to come.
Quote from: Tom on May 19, 2015, 06:58:05 PM
Yeah, it seems maybe that was about those three guys being blessed to be ones through whom others were saved kind of like shadows of Christ to come.
Yes 8 souls in the ark Noah
Job his 3 friends
and Daniel for the people
all with the help of the Holy Spirit and their lives blessed others lives by the increase of God , He gets the glory , but they shared in His glory
Because they pleased God , to me any ways
It should be interesting to note that all of these three men spent much time preaching justice and the truth. They all did what they did for the salvation of other people, also Job was concerned about other men and his family. So i think this biblical word is to turn us into preachers and advocates of the truth. We should be like Noah, Daniel and Job, a spiritual force to be active in the land. In our time and day this means standing up for God's love and for being not-judgemental. We must allow people to come to God without fear of punishment or rejection. God is known as a merciful Father of ALL and He wants to renew His fame.
Altho it could be noted that Noah proclaimed a warning to a world about to be destroyed for sin, and as Jesus said, "They did not understand until the rain came and swept them all away".... and that Daniel was raised up to preserve the nation that had been taken captive to another empire because of their unfaithfulness to their own God in their own land.
"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be....
:cloud9: Yep....and in the days of Noah isn't it interesting that only the wicked left the earth? The righteous were raised up impervious to the judgment going on. :Chinscratch: :winkgrin: Blessings....
Definitely interesting :o)
What I see is that God is talking of the faith of Noah, Daniel and Job.
Their faith, though they tried to share it, was attributed to them. Their faith could not save others, as each person is accountable to God for their own faith.
We can try to warn others, pray for them, but, ultimately, we must each develop our own relationship with the Lord. There is no substitute for that.
Each of us must connect to God......we cannot depend on our affiliations to cover what we have not done, ourselves.
:2c:
Quote from: Dandelion on August 23, 2015, 06:22:46 AM
What I see is that God is talking of the faith of Noah, Daniel and Job.
Their faith, though they tried to share it, was attributed to them. Their faith could not save others, as each person is accountable to God for their own faith.
We can try to warn others, pray for them, but, ultimately, we must each develop our own relationship with the Lord. There is no substitute for that.
Each of us must connect to God......we cannot depend on our affiliations to cover what we have not done, ourselves.
:2c:
Yes considering their name meanings as well as there example of how and what the lived though ... all types of a hell/ gehenna judgment on earth testing that faith and considered righteous by GOD not of themselves nor any of their peers .....
JOB hebrew name meaning Etymology and meaning of the name Job
The origin of the name Job is unclear (unknown says BDB Theological Dictionary). Some (NOBSE Study Bible Name List reads Returning) derive it from an Arabic noun meaning 'he who turns (to God)'. Others (HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) see similarities with the verb איב (ayap), meaning to be an enemy:
Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
איב
The verb איב ('ayab) means to be hostile to or to be an enemy. This verb occurs in all expectable ways, from men being hostile to men (Numbers 35:23), to men treating men as enemies (Exodus 23:22), to a general or national enemy (Exodus 15:6), to enemies of God (Numbers 10:35). Most notable are the instances where God becomes the enemy of rebellious men (Isaiah 63:10).
This verb comes with one derivative: the feminine noun איבה ('eba), meaning enmity (Genesis 3:15, Numbers 35:21).
Associated Biblical names
♂Jobאיוב
Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names derives the name Job from this verb and is convinced that the name Job is a passive form and thus means The Persecuted. Renowned theologian Gesenius agrees with Jones and reads "object of enmity"
Then there are occurrences of this same name in related languages, and mean there No Father or Where Is My Father?
A Hebrew audience would probably hear Enemy for the name Job, and perhaps indeed a passive form of the verb, so that the name-bearer becomes the object of hostilities, specifically those imposed on Job by God. Others understand perhaps that God is never an enemy to a righteous man and righteous Job, as much as he loved God, was His enemy by nature, and that got the ball rolling.
Noah hebrew name meaning is super interesting Etymology of the name Noah I
What the original designer of the masculine name Noah (נח) meant to say isn't immediately clear, but Noah's father Lamech appears to name his son Noah because 'this one will comfort us,' using the verb נחם (naham; see the names Nahum and Capernaum), which is the same verb that Isaiah used when saying, "Comfort, O comfort My people..." (Isaiah 40:1).
Most commentators take the name Noah from the verb נוח (nuah) meaning to rest or settle down, but it may very well have been drawn from the verb נחה (naha), meaning to lead or guide:
Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
נוח נחת נחה
The verbs נוח (nuah) and נחת (nahet) and נחה (naha) seem adjacent or even slightly overlapping in meaning, and their forms overlap as well:
נוח
The root-verb נוח (nuah) denotes a coming to rest usually after a period of unrest or mobility. It is used to indicate the end of a journey (Genesis 8:4), or the camping of an army (Isaiah 7:2) and even the resting of a spirit upon someone (Numbers 11:25, 2 Kings 2:15), or wisdom (Proverbs 14:33), or anger (Ecclesiastes 7:9). And it may denote the resting after labor (Exodus 20:11), the rest of peace after a period of war (Esther 9:16), or general peace of mind (Proverbs 29:17). It may also mean to leave behind (Genesis 42:33), to depart from (Ecclesiastes 10:4), and to abandon (Jeremiah 14:9).
Derivatives of this verb are:
The feminine noun נחת (nahat), meaning quietness or a quiet attitude (Isaiah 30:15, Job 36:16). Note that this noun is identical to a derivation of the verb נחת (nahet), see below.
The masculine noun ניחח (nihoah) or ניחוח (nihoah), meaning a quieting or soothing, usually of scents from sacrifices, and usually soothing to God (Genesis 8:21, Exodus 29:18).
The feminine noun הנחה (hanaha), meaning a giving of rest (Esther 2:18 only).
The masculine noun מנוח (manoah), meaning either place or condition of rest (Genesis 8:9, Psalm 116:7).
The noun מנוחה (menuha) or מנחה (menuha), meaning resting place (Micah 2:10, Psalm 95:11), or quietness (Psalm 23:2, Jeremiah 45:3).
נחת
The root-verb נחת (nahet) means to descend or go down. It may denote a military advance (Jeremiah 21:13), or a descent into Sheol (Job 21:13). A rebuke descends into someone who has understanding (Proverbs 17:10) the way an arrow goes into some victim's flesh (Psalm 38:2). Two words derive from this verb, and each occurs only once:
The masculine noun נחת (nahat), meaning descent (Isaiah 30:30 only). Note that this noun is identical to the feminine one derived from the verb נוח (nuah).
The adjective נחת (nahet), meaning descending (2 Kings 6:9 only).
נחה
The verb נחה (naha) means to lead or guide. Eliezer uses this verb to explain how YHWH brought him to Rebekah (Genesis 24:27, 24:48). God led Israel (Exodus 13:17, 15:13, Deuteronomy 32:12) and Moses did too (Exodus 32:34), or rather Moses and Aaron were used by God as instruments (Psalm 77:20, Nehemiah 9:19) and so was the Shekinah (Nehemiah 9:12). The Lord leads who calls on Him (Isaiah 58:11, 27:11, 139:24), who enters His house (Psalm 5:8), even constellations in the heavens (Job 38:32). Like a shepherd He leads beside quiet waters (Psalm 23:2).
Parental instructions lead someone on his walk (Proverbs 6:22), Balak led Balaam from Aram (Numbers 23:7), a man's gift brings him before great men (Proverbs 18:16), Solomon led his horses to special cities (1 Kings 10:26), Job guided the widow (Job 31:18).
This verb has no derivations.
Associated Biblical names
⌂Janoahינוח
ינוחה
♂⌂☺Manahathמנחת
♂Manoahמנוח
♂♀②Noahנח
נעה
♂Nohahנוחה
Noah I meaning
For a meaning of the name Noah, both NOBSE Study Bible Name List and Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names read Rest. BDB Theological Dictionary does not offer an interpretation of our name but does list it under the verb נוח (nuah) meaning to rest.
Significantly, the competing lineage of Cain, ends up in the land of Nod, which means Restless Wandering.
Noah II
As stated above, the feminine Noah is one of the five daughters of Zelophehad.
Etymology of the name Noah II
The feminine name Noah (נעה), according to BDB Theological Dictionary, comes from the verb נוע (nua'), meaning to shake or stagger:
Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary
נוע
The root-verb נוע (nua') means to shake, stagger, quiver, tremble, etcetera. It's used for trees that sway in the breeze (Judges 9:9), of lips that stammer (1 Samuel 1:13), of drunks who stagger (psalm 107:27). It's used to have beggars totter, or to toss corn about in a sieve (Amos 9:9).
Probably the most endearing usage of this verb is in the description of the movement of Hannah's lips when she prayed (1 Samuel 1:13). Rather grim is its role in Cain's curse: You shall be a vagabond — נע (n') — and a fugitive (Genesis 4:12). God exiles Cain to the land of Nod. The name Nod is derived from a verb that is often used as a parallel to the verb nua'.
The sole derivation of this root is the masculine noun מנענע (mena'anea'), which appears to be some kind of rattle. It occurs in 2 Samuel 6:5 only.
Associated Biblical names
⌂Kadesh-barneaקדש ברנע
⌂Neahנעה
♂♀②Noahנח
נעה
Noah II meaning
The feminine name Noah (נעה) means Shaky Girl or Lady Wanderer.
and
Daniel hebrew name meaning Daniel meaning
The whole name Daniel would mean something like God Is My Judge (NOBSE Study Bible Name List & BDB Theological Dictionary) or, more interpretively, God Rules Me. Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names reads Judge Of God.
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Daniel.html#.VdoIhflViko
I find the information just amazing to look into , like the names and meanings of the Hebrew , very significant and as the ''hidden manna '' that Rev mentions as a ''reward '' for faithfulness to Gods Word , we know Jesus Christ is the WORD and many other meanings , He is really our all
:HeartThrob:
when I consider the flood of Noah's day....in the revelation of the salvation of all men...this comes to mind...'whether you pass through
the water's or the fire,I AM with you." He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked[corrupted image that all men have bore]
I kill..and make alive. Even if the righteous one should strike me..it would even be a blessing
The meaning of the name Noah: Rest, Peace
The meaning of the name Daniel: God Is My Judge
The meaning of Job: Persecuted
It's interesting though that the book of Daniel comes after Ezekiel, so what could he know?
That the persecuted will find rest and peace in the judgment of God.
Acts 7:33
:cloud9: Love this too, Beloved..... :friendstu:
Some other things have come to mind since I first read this thread, apart from their "work" being as a High Priest, which I commented on earlier. One of which is, a 3 way cord is hard to break. I can also see the prophet, priest and king in that Noah would be as a type of king, having been made the head of the earth and it's people that remained, Daniel was obviously a prophet, and Job prayed for his friends as a priest would do.
Noah could be seen as all three, since he prophetically told of what was coming, and prayed for the people, so I see this as the "sign" of the ministry being perfected in the ones He is raising up to appear in, that like unto Melchisedek. My thoughts.....Blessings....
Blessed to read this. Nice to see a group of brethren sharing in love allowing the spirit to come thru unto edification instead of who's right etc. Very edifying thanks to all who shared I was verily blessed unto many goose bumps. Lol