Liberation Theology

[Jason76]

Do you think it's a heresy?  I do believe some oppression exists in the world, and the Bible verifies it.   Nonetheless, the scripture always asks people to "call on the Lord".   In other words, if people really sought God, then poverty and oppression would be far less.

Also, the images and ideas provoked by liberation theology are a joke.  I never saw that Jesus was some left wing warrior, anymore than he is some racist "white identity" one.

Of course, this all relates to revelation as some Christians think the west is Babylon etc..

[Lazarus Short]

You just have to have a certain hubris to assume that you can put Christianity and God into the service of your peculiar ideology.  What the Bible opens to us puts to shame Right and Left, Conservative and Liberal, Anarchist and Totalitarian.  I say this as an ex-Libertarian.

[Jason76]

You just have to have a certain hubris to assume that you can put Christianity and God into the service of your peculiar ideology.  What the Bible opens to us puts to shame Right and Left, Conservative and Liberal, Anarchist and Totalitarian.  I say this as an ex-Libertarian.

Yeah I have to agree.  Here is one site, in particular, serving liberation theology.  At first glance, it seems good, but on closer inspection, is simply catering to leftists.  http://antipasministries.com

As Revelation says, the people are judged cause they wouldn't repent.  So I think the oppression thing is exaggerated big time.

However, I do think people are oppressed, but God allows it, cause they won't turn to him.  Nonetheless, it isn't just a left wing affair, as I think some tea party people play the "victim game" also.

[eaglesway]

Jesus was a very liberal in some things, very conservative in others(by our definitions). Definitely had some libertarian assertions, got tough with Herod- and the religion of the Jews was all tied up in their politics and economics so when Jesus cleared the temple He shook up everything  :laughing7:

I believe people should follow there conscience and present perspectives- things that change with age, wisdom, time and the purposes of God in the moment. The prophets were often focused on socio-economic conditions- but they always traced it to its source- not knowing and walking with God.

[Lazarus Short]

The prophets were often focused on socio-economic conditions- but they always traced it to its source- not knowing and walking with God.

To paraphrase an old Yoruba proverb, What a prophet can see sitting down, a sinner cannot see standing up.

[Jason76]

I guess it all boils down to the fact, that people only see what they want to see.  If they have a predisposition toward a certain way of thinking, then they remake theology to serve their purpose.  All in all, this is another one of Satan's tricks to keep people from a full revelation of truth.

[eaglesway]

I guess it all boils down to the fact, that people only see what they want to see.  If they have a predisposition toward a certain way of thinking, then they remake theology to serve their purpose.  All in all, this is another one of Satan's tricks to keep people from a full revelation of truth.

:thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

I guess it all boils down to the fact, that people only see what they want to see.  If they have a predisposition toward a certain way of thinking, then they remake theology to serve their purpose.  All in all, this is another one of Satan's tricks to keep people from a full revelation of truth.

You have reached the heart of the matter.

[RaiderGonzo]

Who is Satan would be my question, and what purpose does he serve God is the scheme of all things?

Liberation Theology aside, because I do not believe anyone can really phantom the entirety of it unless their feet are sunk mud deep in the causes of it!

[Tom]

Who is Satan would be my question, and what purpose does he serve God is the scheme of all things?

Liberation Theology aside, because I do not believe anyone can really phantom the entirety of it unless their feet are sunk mud deep in the causes of it!

"Satan," literally "Adversary," was created by God to be exactly what his name means.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheSpiritWorld/GodAndSatan.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheSpiritWorld/Satan.html

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheSpiritWorld/TheFallOfSatan.html

[RaiderGonzo]

Thank you, Tom

I was in a way directing my question towards Jason's post


For even Satan serves the Lord -as some would analyze it- either directly, or indirectly

[Tom]

Do you think it's a heresy?  I do believe some oppression exists in the world, and the Bible verifies it.   Nonetheless, the scripture always asks people to "call on the Lord".   In other words, if people really sought God, then poverty and oppression would be far less.

Also, the images and ideas provoked by liberation theology are a joke.  I never saw that Jesus was some left wing warrior, anymore than he is some racist "white identity" one.

Of course, this all relates to revelation as some Christians think the west is Babylon etc..

Who cares about "heresy?" That's just something that doesn't conform to church doctrine while church doctrine doesn't conform to the word of God. This sounds like Prosperity Theology vs. Liberation Theology. I don't think God promises freedom from "poverty and oppression," but I don't agree with what you say here.

"people are oppressed, but God allows it, cause they won't turn to him"

I think some poor folks love God just as much if not more so than some rich folks. I don't think money is a measure of faith. I think believers should have compassion for the poor because of what the word of God says.

"For the entire law is fulfilled in one word, in this: "You shall love your associate as yourself."" (Galatians 5:14)

I think the secular laws of some governments have been modeled after the divine laws in scripture, and governments with taxes from the people should help all the people not just the ones who can afford to pay the legislators to make certain laws to help them. But I don't think that's something you can really do as a church sanctioned operation even though government officials should have a sense of morality when doing so. Unfortunately money seems to be what really drives the legal process and government. So lots of poor folks probably won't get a break until this wicked eon is over. I'm not registered with the so called liberal party or the so called conservative party because I disagree with some things they both claim to stand for. But I will say that some folks who complain about welfare for the poor ignore the corporate welfare that I think is really keeping governments broke while the banks that caused the global economic fiasco recovered and prospered and lots of working folks lost their homes and still haven't found good jobs. This is all just the politics of human government though. Even the democratic republics that put down the idea of Liberation Theology for being too "Marxist" are themselves corrupt. I think the only righteous government will be when Christ comes back and subjects all the nations through Israel in the next eon.

[eaglesway]

Liberation theology may be extreme in some instances, but to me it is like many other things- a solid truth exalted into a mutation of truth. Anyone who really reads the scriptures and doesnt see that the Holy Spirit speaks against economic inequity more than anything but perhaps, idolatry- just isnt interested in seeing what'S there. All of the prophets, Jesus, James focus intensely on the imbalances caused by greed and opportunism and exhort believers to defend the poor and helpless, both within the community of Christ and without.

The refusal of believers to deal with issues of justice and equity is a general rejection of one of the core themes of the Logos- and it is caused by religious futility rooted in fear of authority and the cover of orthgodoxy for sins of greed, ambition and selfishness.

Isaiah 58:
4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.

9 Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:

11 And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.


James 6:
1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.

3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

Ezekiel 16:
49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

[Tom]

I agree. We should be compassionate for the poor, disabled, ill, injured, lonely, and socially oppressed.

[rosered]

Who is Satan would be my question, and what purpose does he serve God is the scheme of all things?

Liberation Theology aside, because I do not believe anyone can really phantom the entirety of it unless their feet are sunk mud deep in the causes of it!

Great question  bro ....                 main things is  a  liar  &   murderer     and accuser/ blamer     from the start     
SATAN /ADVERSARY     is the accuser of the brethren
I see no divisions in Christ    the Head and true authority     
  but thousands of divisions outside of Christ   so the main    head of Satan     the old red dragon serpent of old   " is religion"     for me as men in power  [    7 heads & ten horned  beast ]

I was doing some studies the past  couple of days and am SHOCKED  :eek:    at how much the Bible has been  messed with and removed    some and added others to make a fit for religion !!!!!!!!!!!A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence..

Here is the   big clue for me   ,   the only way we can    steer   clear of     religion  is to do a  simple      worship God in Spirit and truth    , and   the Lord provides  the HOLY SPIRIT    as the teacher and comforter and the Word   
but apparently the  WORD has been  marred and abused and mistreated and handled      and almost unrecognizable !!   as prophecy predicted  in  Isaiah  53 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Isaiah++53&version=EXB       the WORD  BIBLE as  been   disgraced    by evil  spirits of the    dragon in mankind   from the ages !!  liars, cheaters ,robbers and thieves and   killers   of the WORD OF GOD =JESUS CHRIST

Rev 13 The Two Beasts
13 Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea [C the sea was a symbol of chaos in the ancient world; Dan. 7:1–8]. It [or He] had ten horns [C symbols of power and strength] and seven heads [12:3], and there was a ·crown [diadem; royal crown; C indicating a king of evil] on each horn. A ·name against God [L blasphemous name; some manuscripts read the plural "names"] was written on each head. 2 This beast looked like a leopard, with feet like a bear's feet and a mouth like a lion's mouth. And the dragon gave the beast all of his ·power [authority] and his throne and great authority. 3 One of the heads of the beast looked as if it ·had been killed by a wound [had a fatal/mortal wound; L was slain to death; C an evil imitation of the Lamb that was slain; 5:6], but this ·death wound [fatal/mortal wound; L wound of its death] was healed [C a false imitation of the resurrection]. Then the whole world was amazed and followed the beast. 4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given his ·power [authority] to the beast. And they also worshiped the beast, asking, "Who is like the beast [Ex. 15:11]? Who can make war against ·it [or him]?"

5 The beast was ·allowed [L given a mouth] to say ·proud words [L great things; Dan. 7:8, 11, 20] and ·words against God [L blasphemies; Dan. 11:36], and it was allowed to ·use [exercise] its ·power [authority] for forty-two months [11:2]. 6 It ·used [opened] its mouth ·to speak [blaspheme] against God, against God's name, against ·the place where God lives [his dwelling/tabernacle], and against all those who ·live [dwell] in heaven. 7 It was given ·power [authority] to make war against ·God's holy people [T the saints] and to ·defeat [conquer] them. It was given ·power [authority] over every tribe, people, language, and nation [Dan. 7:21]. 8 And all who live on earth will worship ·the beast [L it; or him]—all the people since the ·beginning [foundation] of the world whose names are not written in the Lamb's book [scroll] of life [3:5; 17:8; Ex. 32:32–33]. ·The Lamb is the One who was killed [or The Lamb who was killed/slaughtered before the creation/foundation of the earth]. [C Some commentators link the phrase "since the beginning/foundation of the world" with "all who live on the earth"; others link it with "written in the Lamb's book of life"; and still others with "the Lamb who was slain."]

9 Anyone who has ears should ·listen [hear; obey]:

10 If you are to be ·a prisoner [L taken into captivity],
    then you will ·be a prisoner [L go into captivity].
If you are to be killed with the sword,
    then you will be killed with the sword [Jer. 15:2; 43:11].
This means that ·God's holy people [T the saints] must have ·patience [perseverance; endurance] and faith.

11 Then I saw another beast ·coming up [rising] out of the earth [Dan. 7:17]. It [or He] had two horns like a ·lamb [or ram; Dan. 8:3], but it spoke like a dragon [C acting like a prophetic spokesperson for the dragon (see 16:13); along with the dragon and the first beast, this second beast forms an evil trinity]. 12 This beast ·stands before the first beast and uses the same power the first beast has [or uses all the authority of the first beast on its behalf]. By this ·power [authority] it makes ·everyone living on earth [L the earth and its inhabitants] worship the first beast, who had the ·death wound [fatal/mortal wound; L wound of its death] that was healed. 13 And the second beast ·does great miracles [performs great signs] so that it even makes fire come down from heaven to earth [1 Kin. 18:38; 2 Kin. 1:10, 12] ·while people are watching [L before people]. 14 It ·fools [deceives; tricks] those who live on earth by the ·miracles [signs; C these are counterfeit miracles] it has been given the power to do. It does these ·miracles [signs] ·to serve the first beast [L before/in the presence of the first beast]. The second beast orders [tells] people to make an ·idol [image] to honor the first beast, the one that ·was wounded by the deadly [L has the wound of the] sword but ·sprang to life again [lives]. 15 The second beast was ·given power [or allowed] to give ·life [breath; a spirit] to the idol of the first one so that the idol could speak. And the second beast was ·given power [allowed] to ·command [cause; make] all who will not worship the ·image [idol] of the beast to be killed. 16 The second beast also ·forced [caused; made] all people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to have a ·mark [brand; stamp; C to show allegiance to the first beast] on their right hand or on their forehead [compare 7:2–4; 14:1]. 17 [L So that] No one could buy or sell without this mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name [C Greek and Hebrew letters had a numerical equivalent, and so could represent names—a practice known as gematria]. 18 This ·takes [calls for; L is] wisdom [Dan. 12:10]. Let the one who has understanding ·find the meaning of [calculate; figure out] the number [L of the beast], which is the number of a ·person [or man]. Its number is 666[a] [C a symbolic number signifying imperfection and sin; some speculate it represents the name of a Roman emperor, perhaps Nero or Domitian].
   



this is the end for the     beast and false  prophet         and  dragon is  last      and  the lake of fire       as cast out of heaven      to the earth     and from the earth to the lake of fire     and lastly those whom followed after them         
what   did they do  ?  lie   /false prophet   and kill /  beast   and accuse / adversary   Satan dragon /serpent of old       the brethren    from the beginning  all  along the way   to the end

accuse charge (someone) with an offense or crime.
"he was accused of murdering his wife's lover"
synonyms:   charge with, indict for, arraign for; summons for, cite for, prefer charges against for; impeach for
antonyms:   absolve, exonerate
claim that (someone) has done something wrong.
"he was accused of favoritism"
synonyms:   blame for, lay/pin the blame on for, hold responsible for, inculpate for, hold accountable for; condemn for, criticize for, denounce for; informalpoint the finger at for                   

[Lazarus Short]

Rosered, do not fret too much over what has been done to the Bible, for God put a mathematical code into the text which allows for the correction of it, much as DNA self-repairs.  Ivan Panin discovered this many years ago, and made a hard-to-find Numerical Bible (no, I've never seen a copy).  Jesus told us that not a jot or tittle would be done away with, just as some large, complex machine would not work if one gear tooth were missing.

[Tom]

I think the ancient scriptures reveal the truth despite some copying errors that don't affect doctrine, but popular versions contain inaccurate translation that distorts the evangel much the same as it was being distorted even in Paul's day.

"I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ. But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-8)

[rosered]

Rosered, do not fret too much over what has been done to the Bible, for God put a mathematical code into the text which allows for the correction of it, much as DNA self-repairs.  Ivan Panin discovered this many years ago, and made a hard-to-find Numerical Bible (no, I've never seen a copy).  Jesus told us that not a jot or tittle would be done away with, just as some large, complex machine would not work if one gear tooth were missing.

Thanks Bro Laz  aka   Bro  Dennis ,  :thumbsup:
I know the DNA    for bearing the corruptible man that does not inherit a spiritual thing at all     nothing but death
  and bearing the DNA   of incorruptible man     Jesus Christ     who inherits all things in Life and peace !

what we focus on and what we see     with eyes of understanding    , not them ol carnal eyes we only see   corruption   /suffering and loss ...

  :flowerred:

[rosered]

I think the ancient scriptures reveal the truth despite some copying errors that don't affect doctrine, but popular versions contain inaccurate translation that distorts the evangel much the same as it was being distorted even in Paul's day.

"I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ. But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-8)

  Yes Bro T , being taught of the Holy Spirit of Truth !!         ,   that is the key to understanding it rightly       
Our time here is of limited duration   and has  went on way before we   appeared and will  way after      our clay pots are broken     :flowerred:

[eaglesway]

I think the ancient scriptures reveal the truth despite some copying errors that don't affect doctrine, but popular versions contain inaccurate translation that distorts the evangel much the same as it was being distorted even in Paul's day.

"I am marveling that thus, swiftly, you are transferred from that which calls you in the grace of Christ, to a different evangel, which is not another, except it be that some who are disturbing you want also to distort the evangel of Christ. But if ever we also, or a messenger out of heaven, should be bringing an evangel to you beside that which we bring to you, let him be anathema!" (Galatians 1:6-8)

That's a really heavy verse bro T.

[dajomaco]

The most well-known interaction between man kind and the holy spirit was the day of Pentecost.

After this interaction everyone touched by the spirit sold everything they owned.
I think that those who sell everything they have and hold everything in common,
are closer to the early believers.

(I am not one of these).
If I ever did sell everything I owned and gave it away.
I believe the holy spirit would be more real to me.
 

[eaglesway]

I believe thy sold what they owned and had all things in common because of the power of the Spirit among them.

I don't believe the power of the Spirit came upon them because the sold everything they owned.

I believe the power of the Spirit came upon them because they had been discipled by Jesus and "hollowed out" by the events pertaining to His death, burial, resurrection and ascension- so that they had become as on soul awaiting obediently at His command for the promise.

When the promise came upon them they sold everything and had all things in common because they no longer "needed" anything beyond the Spirit who was providing all their needs as "mission command".

"You shall receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you and you will be witnesses unto me"

"And the Lord worked with them, confirming the word with signs and wonders following"

[Seth]

The most well-known interaction between man kind and the holy spirit was the day of Pentecost.

After this interaction everyone touched by the spirit sold everything they owned.
I think that those who sell everything they have and hold everything in common,
are closer to the early believers.

(I am not one of these).
If I ever did sell everything I owned and gave it away.
I believe the holy spirit would be more real to me.

It's a bit difficult to be one of those believers because the practice of having everything in common concerning material needs is no longer practiced in general. You shouldn't be expected to sell all if the church isn't likewise sharing all.

[dajomaco]

The most well-known interaction between man kind and the holy spirit was the day of Pentecost.

After this interaction everyone touched by the spirit sold everything they owned.
I think that those who sell everything they have and hold everything in common,
are closer to the early believers.

(I am not one of these).
If I ever did sell everything I owned and gave it away.

I believe the holy spirit would be more real to me.

It's a bit difficult to be one of those believers because the practice of having everything in common concerning material needs is no longer practiced in general. You shouldn't be expected to sell all if the church isn't likewise sharing all.

I understand what you are saying.
The idea of being set completely free.
I can say I surrender all, but until I do?
For me to surrender all would mean to me that I was seeing through the dark glass.
I hope one day that I could say I sold everything and bought the pearl.  :cloud9:

[rosered]

 
  I  so believe having all things in common  was being human      and    bought   and sold     and exchanged      all  that they had conceived    and brought forth  of knowing  God   and gave it all up to Gain Christ  though the Holy Spirit       , just as Paul says   everything before   now  was dung to Gain Christ  , the Promise of the Holy Spirit  being  poured out on all flesh  was     a spiritual      event /prophecy  ,  that was not  ever   done like this before      on so many at once , it proves the WORD OF GOD AS TRUE       

we are to prove all things       as true or not true
  Jesus even says Buy of Me  the gold tried in the Fire     and     buy the truth and sell it not       fulfilling the  law and prophets    Isaiah      55  Invitation to the Needy!!       everyone was poor blind  miserable and wretched            they were the poor in Spirit     they all had this in common  and needed the HOLY SPIRIT     more than anything  to change and be born sons of God     


1"Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost. 2"Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance

    buy bread/ Jesus Christ the bread of heaven       without money

  proverbs 23 23Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding. 24The father of the righteous will greatly rejoice, And he who sires a wise son will be glad in him.


Lots of wonderful scriptures to back up the SPIRIT OF TRUTH       /HOLY SPIRIT       they were common in need  and looking for the Coming kingdom of God to manifest           this is just my opinion  from the scriptures   guys