Tentmaker Forum

Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ a book of what will be? Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ
a walk for us now? And what we have been elected to see in Revelations is it the actions that entails our walk today? Simply, have we been shown in Revlations what we walk through today?
Do we fear Revelations out fear or do we walk Revelations today in AWE? :bigGrin:

willieH: Hi Micah7:9 ...welcome to TM!  :welcome:

Quote from: micah7:9 on January 27, 2009, 07:50:10 AM
Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ a book of what will be? Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ
a walk for us now? And what we have been elected to see in Revelations is it the actions that entails our walk today? Simply, have we been shown in Revlations what we walk through today?
Do we fear Revelations out fear or do we walk Revelations today in AWE? :bigGrin:

FIRST micah, ...FEAR is NOT a part of LOVE... CHRIST is LOVE, ...so the REVELATION of LOVE is not to be FEARED... (1 John 4:18)

YES, ...we WALK in it, as those of the past WALKED in it, and those of the future WALK in it... The REVELATION is a book of NOW... for in it is the JUDGMENT which is NOW (John 12:31) in it is the ACCEPTED TIME, ...the DAY of SALVATION (2 Cor 6:2) which is NOW, in it is the HISTORY of MAN from END to BEGINNING as REVEALED in CHRIST which is NOW...

The book of the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, is exactly what it says it is... the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST, from the BEGINNING to the END of all things which have -- BEGINNINGS and ENDINGS...

It is not just a book of the END, it is also a book of the BEGINNING...

The END is THE BEGINNING and the BEGINNING is the END... they are one and the same... the BEGINNING REVEALED is JESUS CHRIST, the END REVEALED is JESUS CHRIST.

Rev 1:8 -- I ...AM... the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending...

GOD declared the END/Omega [JESUS CHRIST] from the BEGINNING/Alpha [JESUS CHRIST]... at the foundation of the WORLD... (Is 46:10-11)  For ALL THINGS are ETERNALLY found IN HIM...



:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

Thank you my friend. I guess I over looked and did not explain that enough, the fear
is the AWE of NOW. But Praise God we aint alone. Dave.

Two key verses needed to understand revelations (the whole book, not just one chapter):

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

What do we learn here?:
- this is the revelation of Jesus Christ
- it must come to pass shortly (not in 2000 years)
- it is signified (in symbols)
- Jesus is the beginning and the end, which is, was, is to come


KEY UNDERSTANDINGS:

Revelations (the whole book from chapter 1 to 22) is a book of symbols.

This is the revelation of Jesus, which was, is and will come!  It was applicable for those in John's day.  It is applicable now for us.  It will be applicable in the future.

Legoman

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

Quote from: legoman on January 27, 2009, 11:25:27 PM
Two key verses needed to understand revelations (the whole book, not just one chapter):

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

What do we learn here?:
- this is the revelation of Jesus Christ
- it must come to pass shortly (not in 2000 years)
- it is signified (in symbols)
- Jesus is the beginning and the end, which is, was, is to come


KEY UNDERSTANDINGS:

Revelations (the whole book from chapter 1 to 22) is a book of symbols.

This is the revelation of Jesus, which was, is and will come!  It was applicable for those in John's day.  It is applicable now for us.  It will be applicable in the future.

Legoman

Tough to keep it short, but you did so well!!!  I want to just elaborate on one little piece . .extend it out just a bit.  You're quote of verse 8 . . .it's the same as Hebrews 13:8 . .Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever . . .then your quote . . .

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

which is, which was, and which is to come . . .saying the same thing, order a little different, but the facts remain the same.  So . .we see Jesus always was, always is, and always will be.  Then, the part I want to add is . . .11 verses later he instructs John to write . . .

19Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Is that not the same exact thing?  So what is John to write?  He's not to write about, he's not to emphasize, he's not to focus on the natural things that happened, natural things that "are" happening and the natural things that are yet to happen . . .he's to focus on the Spiritual all in all.  Write down the character, attributes, and nature of the I AM. 

And yet, the carnal minded church has zeroed in on the natural with their great natural reasoning abilities and dissected and magnified the wrong realm. (see new thread . . ."mad gab")

A couple other verses:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God


Here we see that Jesus' words are spirit, "the sword of the Spirit", and the word of God.

Therefore Revelations, which is the revelation of Jesus is also spiritual.  The whole book!  The whole book is meant to be taken spiritually, not literally.  Thats not to say some parts of it aren't literal, like the judgement - there will be a judgement and people will be thrown into the lake of fire, but it will be a spiritual judgement and a spiritual lake of fire.

Leogman

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:

I mentioned this on another thread as well.  I agree with you on all counts . .but the "reason" why I don't see it happening literally now, is because I believe it was what happened "then".  A.D. 70 was the manifestation of the coming of the Lord's judgment to a people who rejected the avenue of redemption made a available to them.  For the land to then be cleansed, it had to be purged . .they rejected the Holy fire, so they were given over to their own destruction . . .it did purge their carnality, but because their natural identity was so deeply embedded in their own reasoning, the judgment purged and destroyed their natural bodies as well. 

Are they in hell?  Not sure it would make any sense . . .Christ already forged the way spiritually and bodily, they rejected his spiritual message and murdered his body, which they then paid for by the destruction of their own body . . .just how much more do they owe than that? 

It'd be like being pardoned AND being imprisoned at the same time.  If you are still in prison . .then you were never really pardoned.

But yeah, there was a literal meaning for the words written and there's a corporate meaning (to the over all church) and there's a spiritual meaning (to the church "within" me.)  By focussing on "this" church within me, I automatically become a part of the over all church corporately.  But if I focus on just the corporate piece, I can miss the inner piece.  That's why I see the benefit of walking in the spirit, it illuminates the church within me so that I can be a functioning part of the corporate church without.

Applying it literally . .to the natural realm now, proffiteth nothing.

willieH: Hi Legoman!   :cloud9:

Quote from: legoman on January 27, 2009, 11:25:27 PM
Two key verses needed to understand revelations (the whole book, not just one chapter):

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

What do we learn here?:
- this is the revelation of Jesus Christ
- it must come to pass shortly (not in 2000 years)
- it is signified (in symbols)
- Jesus is the beginning and the end, which is, was, is to come


KEY UNDERSTANDINGS:

Revelations (the whole book from chapter 1 to 22) is a book of symbols.

This is the revelation of Jesus, which was, is and will come!  It was applicable for those in John's day.  It is applicable now for us.  It will be applicable in the future.

Legoman

I agree with these notations... the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is the revealing of an ETERNAL entity to FINITE entities...

CHRIST is an entity that IS [not will be] the END, and that IS [not was] the BEGINNING... stating that ALL THINGS which are finite, find both their origin and destiny IN HIM... which IS ETERNAL.

That this writing, the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST which ...IS... the GOSPEL, ...and INTENDED to be given to the CHURCH, is made obvious by  the "addressees" of this writing (you note above) which were the EXISTENT "churches" in the days and years following His life... and which instructions were not only SPIRITUAL and pertinent but NECESSARY for the GOSPEL to be preached to the entire world... (Acts 1:8)

On the day of Pentecost when the SPIRIT of GOD came (previously prophesied by CHRIST -- John 15:26 and reiterated before He departed -- Acts 1:8) that, ...the SPIRIT of GOD -- upon This EVENT, would reveal these truths (in order that they "witness"), TESTIFYING of Him via  SPIRITUAL language (Acts 2)... which only those worhipping IN the SPIRIT and TRUTH would comprehend... and comply...

Eventually, this writing we have today, [the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST] was a notation given to John, ...to be passed down through time for those who were no longer EYE witnesses (as John's "generation of eye witnesses" was passing away)... and that would become FAITH witnesses only...

More BLESSED are those who DO NOT SEE, ...yet BELIEVE... (and witness)  :thumbsup:

I see the term "SHORTLY" as noting CHRIST being REVEALED in LIVES [of men] that are a VAPOR and appears for a "SHORT" time and then vanish away...

Just me  :2c:



:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup:

Quote from: willieH on January 28, 2009, 10:51:22 PM
willieH: Hi Legoman!   :cloud9:

Quote from: legoman on January 27, 2009, 11:25:27 PM
Two key verses needed to understand revelations (the whole book, not just one chapter):

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

What do we learn here?:
- this is the revelation of Jesus Christ
- it must come to pass shortly (not in 2000 years)
- it is signified (in symbols)
- Jesus is the beginning and the end, which is, was, is to come


KEY UNDERSTANDINGS:

Revelations (the whole book from chapter 1 to 22) is a book of symbols.

This is the revelation of Jesus, which was, is and will come!  It was applicable for those in John's day.  It is applicable now for us.  It will be applicable in the future.

Legoman

I agree with these notations... the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is the revealing of an ETERNAL entity to FINITE entities...

CHRIST is an entity that IS [not will be] the END, and that IS [not was] the BEGINNING... stating that ALL THINGS which are finite, find both their origin and destiny IN HIM... which IS ETERNAL.

That this writing, the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST which ...IS... the GOSPEL, ...and INTENDED to be given to the CHURCH, is made obvious by  the "addressees" of this writing (you note above) which were the EXISTENT "churches" in the days and years following His life... and which instructions were not only SPIRITUAL and pertinent but NECESSARY for the GOSPEL to be preached to the entire world... (Acts 1:8)

On the day of Pentecost when the SPIRIT of GOD came (previously prophesied by CHRIST -- John 15:26 and reiterated before He departed -- Acts 1:8) that, ...the SPIRIT of GOD -- upon This EVENT, would reveal these truths (in order that they "witness"), TESTIFYING of Him via  SPIRITUAL language (Acts 2)... which only those worhipping IN the SPIRIT and TRUTH would comprehend... and comply...

Eventually, this writing we have today, [the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST] was a notation given to John, ...to be passed down through time for those who were no longer EYE witnesses (as John's "generation of eye witnesses" was passing away)... and that would become FAITH witnesses only...

More BLESSED are those who DO NOT SEE, ...yet BELIEVE... (and witness)  :thumbsup:

I see the term "SHORTLY" as noting CHRIST being REVEALED in a LIVES [of men] that are a VAPOR and appears for a "SHORT" time and then vanish away...

Just me  :2c:

In JESUS the name above ALL NAMES...

:laughing7:  willieH     :laughing7:

Yo Willie H :icon_flower:

The act of manifesting, that which is :gthumbsup: revealed and unveiled!

peacemaker

Thank you all for the input and I feel refreshed. I must explain my tardiness, I live in The Great and  Honorable state of Arkansas and the a Lord has saw fit to have a grave
icestorm come upon the trees , some of these trees were weak some were strong, yet the purpose. But I am back on line. Dave.

 :cloud9: Good for you, glad to hear it. I love the great and honorable state of Arkansas, spent part of each of my childhood summers there with a cousin. Beautiful state.  :thumbsup: Blessings....

Quote from: micah7:9 on January 27, 2009, 07:50:10 AM
Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ a book of what will be? Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ
a walk for us now? And what we have been elected to see in Revelations is it the actions that entails our walk today? Simply, have we been shown in Revlations what we walk through today?
Do we fear Revelations out fear or do we walk Revelations today in AWE? :bigGrin:

Micah, YES YES YES. IMO all of Scripture is alive and active today and right now in each person. Revelation is my favorite book in this respect. It makes total sense when I look at it as God talking to me about the 'goings on' within me and you and all people and so much more.

cp

Amen cp.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[quote author=Nathan

And yet, the carnal minded church has zeroed in on the natural with their great natural reasoning abilities and dissected and magnified the wrong realm. (see new thread . . ."mad gab")


[/quote]

I agree that is exactly what the carnal minded church has done and is still doing.

Peace,
Fire Walker