QUOTE FROM - http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/harrystruman :
Harry S. Truman
- During his few weeks as Vice President, Harry S. Truman scarcely saw President Roosevelt, and received no briefing on the development of the atomic bomb or the unfolding difficulties with Soviet Russia. Suddenly these and a host of other wartime problems became Truman's to solve when, on April 12, 1945, he became President. He told reporters, "I felt like the moon, the stars, and all the planets had fallen on me."
- As President, Truman made some of the most crucial decisions in history. Soon after V-E Day, the war against Japan had reached its final stage. An urgent plea to Japan to surrender was rejected. Truman, after consultations with his advisers, ordered atomic bombs dropped on cities devoted to war work. Two were Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Japanese surrender quickly followed.
- In June 1945 Truman witnessed the signing of the charter of the United Nations, hopefully established to preserve peace. (A world body which was, then wasn't when its 'head'/organizer/u.s. president Wilson didn't, after all, sign on, and then it was again.)
REV 13:13=1945 "fire down to the earth" upon Hiroshima & Nagasaki
REV 13:14 "because of which persuades man to make an image to the beast which was, wasn't, then was again" an image (panel? which will be given breath/authority when its head/u.s. presidency, finally 'heads')
REV 6:12-17 = 6th seal begun, BUT described as a blend of what it is when it begins AND what it is at the 'end' (this obscures the vision many days) "sun darkened"/blocked that day from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, "and moon red"/reflecting fire, and "the stars" appearing to "fall from the sky" more so at 'end' (when the earth shakes) than beginning/opening in 1945, when 6th seal was broken, allowing the scroll to be unrolled/opened further.
- Is Christendom, that part "alive" waiting for a Pope with a wand? and 1945 is unmentioned in Bible prophecy? really??
- We are exactly at REV 7:1, while the 6th Seal/fiery wind is paused/held back, while a "multitude from all nations", then "144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel" are "sealed on their forehead" (complete discernment and clarity?) to go with the "seal upon the heart" of (current) believers.
- After this pause, the 7th seal is opened (limited thermal-nuclear/atomic warfare occurs?) and the "7 angels line up with 7 trumpets, preparing to blow".
- Isaiah 2:11 - "the Lord alone will be exalted in that day".
Opinion
Just mentioned the IMO because I'm not a mod to put in IMO
when things are stated as fact. Stating something is an opinion does not negate it, disagree or agree with it, or dismiss it. :Peace2:
Quote from: ded2daworld on June 06, 2013, 06:12:54 PM
Just mentioned the IMO because I'm not a mod to put in IMO
when things are stated as fact. Stating something is an opinion does not negate it, disagree or agree with it, or dismiss it. :Peace2:
OK, but the unadorned word "Opinion" seems to negate to me. Maybe I spend too much time on forums where people argue a lot more than here.
BTW, concerning the nuking of those two Japanese cities - Hiroshima and Nagasaki had, at that time, the highest concentrations of Christians in Japan. They had suffered and survived centuries of persecution, only to be nuked by "Christian" Amerika. Years later, the same pattern was repeated in Iraq, a country which had had a tolerated Christian minority, which was well-integrated into the national life. In the first Iraq war, [Desert Storm?], virtually every Christian church in Iraq was bombed, including the cathedral in Baghdad, which dated to the first century. It is only a matter of time until such actions come home.
Quote from: ded2daworld on June 05, 2013, 10:29:09 PM
Opinion
You're absolutely right! I forgot to include the imo..
In my opinion - the "
fire down to the earth" of Bible verse Revelation 13:13 was likely upon Hiroshima & Nagasaki, which imo, certainly, would be somewhere in Bible prophecy.. Also I believe it is what is described in Rev 6:12-17, obscured because the "Seal" is described as a blend, of what it is when it - begins, and, what it is when it - ends.
I also believe Revelation 7:1 describes a pause in this seal after it's beginning/opening
And, i also believe when the pause ends, will be the same seal/fire,
limited, which, imo, is also the 7 angels w/ trumpets lining up, preparing to blow.. (with its totality/fullness/end, being the bowls)
I also, you may have guessed, feel these are some of the signs given by Jesus, and is why I exploited this opportunity to repeat them :))
Anyone here ever read the vision of Abraham Lincoln?
The USA will be invaded and when on the edge of total defeat the nation finally turns to God again and becomes victorious.
Quote from: marie glen on July 03, 2013, 06:10:06 PM
I also believe Revelation 7:1 describes a pause
I think it describes the total opposite. It's not about restraining a storm. The angels restrain the Holy Spirit.
The angels in Rev 7:1 are restraining the wind. English and Greek give the impression it's just regular wind, but actually it's a Hebrew idiom meaning God holding back His blessing on the harvests as shown in Deut 28 and 29. The Holy Spirit is also called wind. So this verse tells us God is retracting His blessings. The land isn't harmed by actively destroying is with storm/wind but by letting evil run its cause by removing the blessing. So God punishes by doing nothing. The Ho-ly Spirit that always worked for the benefit of man is restrained from benefitting man. One less opponent for satan. There is just one Holy Spirit but the verse is about four winds. The corners (seem to) refer to the 'tanaf'; the corners of a prayer shawl. Those corners had special tassels on them that were symbolic of God/God's authority. God and the Holy Spirit are very closely linked so that's the reason one Holy Spirit is called four winds. To take this one step further; when the angles are holding the four tassels they are holding the prayer shawl as a covering over the earth. A covering refers to covenant. The shawl is also called wings.
Mal 4:2 But to you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Matt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you, how of-ten would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!Restraining the winds doesn't mean God also stops blessing the righteous people. It's a punishment for sinners. God no longer covers their sins with grace. Things are getting serious now. Many got the message and turned to God as the verse below shows. There is always time to repent. God's goal isn't to destroy but to chance upon chance to repent...
Rev 7:14 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. God often covers several people because of the righteousness of one. A good example of that is Sodom and Gomor-rah. God was asked to spare the cities if a few righteous people lived in those cities. God agreed. God covered Egypt because Joseph people lived there too. But when God finally decided to stop covering, withhold blessing, restrain the four winds God provided personal instead of nationwide covering. And that's what's happening in this revelation verse. God is replacing the world-wide covering with a more personal version. So, once again, God doesn't cause all terrors found in Revelations, He merely stops shielding us from harm.
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 17, 2013, 06:39:58 AM
Anyone here ever read the vision of Abraham Lincoln?
The USA will be invaded and when on the edge of total defeat the nation finally turns to God again and becomes victorious.
I thought is was George Washington, and I have read it. So far, it has come true 100%.
You are right LS. Washington
sorta came true in WW2 didn't it? :dontknow:
I listen to songs from that period of time. Many would be banned for their use of the word God today for fear of offending our muslim soldiers.
I think it more than likely that WW2 was the Great Tribulation.
When we confuse Tribulation, the Great Tribulation and God's Wrath we will never see the Truth because Prophecy becomes mixed up in an undistinguished mess.
I agree with the basic premise that WW2 is in Prophecy. It was a time of trouble never before seen and will probably never be seen again. I assert the Great Tribulation is over. I know it's over because God told us that when it is he will gather his people before his Wrath. To not include the Holocaust in Prophecy is to ignore the obvious. God didn't fail to see the Holocaust coming and to believe that he did is just more Gentile centric nonsense devoid of any Hebrew context which is the entire context of the Bible. The Bible is 100% Israel/Judah centric so adjust all your Biblical Prophetic timelines accordingly because the Great Tribulation ended in 1945 and then Israel was reborn from dry bones.
The fire from the sky could be the atom bombs dropped on Japan but I will not assert that. It could be ALL bombs dropped from the sky. I do assert that the basic timeline is correct. Thanks for the post marie glen.
Because Prophecy is impossible to discern without help from the Holy Spirit of God I could be 100% wrong and I'm prepared to be 100% wrong. I won't take it personally nor should anyone take my interpretation as an attack on them. It's just interesting how the Holocaust get's ignored by most Christian Prophecy interpretations. It was worse than the Babylonian exile, worse than the Roman invasions yet God forgot to mention it? NONSENSE! It was the Great Tribulation.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil026.html
Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 09, 2013, 07:47:26 PM
I think it more than likely that WW2 was the Great Tribulation.
When we confuse Tribulation, the Great Tribulation and God's Wrath we will never see the Truth because Prophecy becomes mixed up in an undistinguished mess.
I agree with the basic premise that WW2 is in Prophecy. It was a time of trouble never before seen and will probably never be seen again. I assert the Great Tribulation is over. I know it's over because God told us that when it is he will gather his people before his Wrath. To not include the Holocaust in Prophecy is to ignore the obvious. God didn't fail to see the Holocaust coming and to believe that he did is just more Gentile centric nonsense devoid of any Hebrew context which is the entire context of the Bible. The Bible is 100% Israel/Judah centric so adjust all your Biblical Prophetic timelines accordingly because the Great Tribulation ended in 1945 and then Israel was reborn from dry bones.
The fire from the sky could be the atom bombs dropped on Japan but I will not assert that. It could be ALL bombs dropped from the sky. I do assert that the basic timeline is correct. Thanks for the post marie glen.
Because Prophecy is impossible to discern without help from the Holy Spirit of God I could be 100% wrong and I'm prepared to be 100% wrong. I won't take it personally nor should anyone take my interpretation as an attack on them. It's just interesting how the Holocaust get's ignored by most Christian Prophecy interpretations. It was worse than the Babylonian exile, worse than the Roman invasions yet God forgot to mention it? NONSENSE! It was the Great Tribulation.
One day, I took a look into the Jewish Encyclopedia, as part of other research, and checked the Jewish census figures for Europe just before and just after WW II. There was some difference, but nowhere near 6,000,000 fewer Jews at the end of the war. So there it is from the horse's mouth - the Holocaust is mostly myth, and the Jews tried to foist the same six-million-dead-Jews lie at the end of WW I. Why do so many people, Christians included, demonize Hitler/Nazis/Germans for killing Jews, when Stalin/Communists/Russians killed many millions of Christians? They destroyed so many churches and seminaries, but not one synagogue.
Please note that I am not bashing your idea of WW II being the Great Tribulation, and it may just have been...
One day, I took a look into the Jewish Encyclopedia, as part of other research, and checked the Jewish census figures for Europe just before and just after WW II. There was some difference, but nowhere near 6,000,000 fewer Jews at the end of the war. So there it is from the horse's mouth - the Holocaust is mostly myth, and the Jews tried to foist the same six-million-dead-Jews lie at the end of WW I. Why do so many people, Christians included, demonize Hitler/Nazis/Germans for killing Jews, when Stalin/Communists/Russians killed many millions of Christians? They destroyed so many churches and seminaries, but not one synagogue.
Please note that I am not bashing your idea of WW II being the Great Tribulation, and it may just have been...
[/quote]
The 6 million number came from the Nazis themselves. A couple of Hitlers Generals thought the number was too small so there is no question about 6 million Jews being killed. The Nazis kept good records. Be careful about antichrists who deny the facts. Christians were also killed in the millions during the 20th century. This was a time when God's people were being killed around the world like never before. I say the Great Tribulation came and God did as promised and is gathering his people from the 4 winds.
I don't see the world heading to war with itself anymore. I see it parts of the world heading to war with Israel. Israel and Jerusalem are at the center of the worlds attention.
Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 12, 2013, 10:19:44 AM
The 6 million number came from the Nazis themselves. A couple of Hitlers Generals thought the number was too small so there is no question about 6 million Jews being killed. The Nazis kept good records. Be careful about antichrists who deny the facts. Christians were also killed in the millions during the 20th century. This was a time when God's people were being killed around the world like never before. I say the Great Tribulation came and God did as promised and is gathering his people from the 4 winds.
I don't see the world heading to war with itself anymore. I see it parts of the world heading to war with Israel. Israel and Jerusalem are at the center of the worlds attention.
Tentmaker is probably not the proper venue to argue such historical questions, but I find it odd but not unexpected, that you read my findings in the Jewish Encyclopedia, but still reiterate that "...there is no question about 6 million Jews being killed." This touchstone number is being questioned by a lot of people, and some have gone to prison for their trouble. At the end of the debates, the myth is always upheld because billions of dollars in guilt money is at stake. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
As to the world not going to war anymore, I have two comments. One is the aphorism by Bertolt Brecht that "When the leaders speak of peace, the mobilization orders have already been written out," or something close to that. The other is the revelation of the plan for
three world wars, as outlined in Albert Pike's letter to Guiseppe Mazzini.
Very interesting about Washington's dream..
and the holocaust in prophecy.. tho I believe there will be a greater genocide, one which will (in the same pattern, like the apostles were 'removed') remove what restrains/prevents [man's dream of a global empire of peace! peace! w/o YHWH, and for which they forget one most important thing, corruption; and imo, shaping up to also forget productivity - i.e. socialism will (finally) devour capitalism-Rev 17:16; the Greek "harlot" = word "pornos" - "to sell" - imo, the end time $iTy called harlot, whom the kings/politicians are in bed with, uses pornos to sell! sell! but :sigh: I suppose that's another topic]
I believe the Book of Revelation is global.. what with believers of all nations being "grafted into Israel" and was always prophesied the light would also shine upon the gentiles/the nations.. I also believe the Book of Revelation is all around us.. in our world of today. And the dragon's focus returns to Israel to gather for Harmegeddon (Rev 16:14,15,16 & 12:17(clue vs.14)
Revelation 7:1-4,9 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;
{during the, imo, pause of rev 7:1; pause, imo, of using thermal-nuclear warfare, of Rev 6:12-17 (and 13:13) where the seals are described as a blend/braiding of what it is when 1st opened/on the scene and what it is when fully matured/progressed/galloped at the 'end', thus? effectively confusing understanding of the vision, because things which occur very late on the planet are described here so very early in the narrative/meditation/vision}
2 and I saw another messenger going up from the rising of the sun, having a seal of the living God, and he did cry with a great voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to injure the land and the sea, saying,
3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.'
4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (144 thousands were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons of Israel): [note: Jewish believers, even now on the rise]
9 After these things I saw, and lo, a great multitude, which to number no one was able, out of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, (also?) standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands, (Imo, this is not a literal "in front of the throne" (not yet anyway)
.....................................................................................
later.. Revelation 9:1,4 - (YLT)
1 And the fifth messenger did sound, and I saw a star out of the heaven having fallen to the earth, and there was given to it the key of the pit of the abyss,
4 and it was said to them that they may not injure the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but -- the men only who have not the seal of God upon their foreheads, ((imo, implying those with the seal are still upon planet earth))
:hiya:
Bring it on! No fear!! It means "Har me geddon outta here!!!" :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth: :doh: :footmouth:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 17, 2013, 05:50:40 PM
Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 12, 2013, 10:19:44 AM
The 6 million number came from the Nazis themselves. A couple of Hitlers Generals thought the number was too small so there is no question about 6 million Jews being killed. The Nazis kept good records. Be careful about antichrists who deny the facts. Christians were also killed in the millions during the 20th century. This was a time when God's people were being killed around the world like never before. I say the Great Tribulation came and God did as promised and is gathering his people from the 4 winds.
I don't see the world heading to war with itself anymore. I see it parts of the world heading to war with Israel. Israel and Jerusalem are at the center of the worlds attention.
Tentmaker is probably not the proper venue to argue such historical questions, but I find it odd but not unexpected, that you read my findings in the Jewish Encyclopedia, but still reiterate that "...there is no question about 6 million Jews being killed." This touchstone number is being questioned by a lot of people, and some have gone to prison for their trouble. At the end of the debates, the myth is always upheld because billions of dollars in guilt money is at stake. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
As to the world not going to war anymore, I have two comments. One is the aphorism by Bertolt Brecht that "When the leaders speak of peace, the mobilization orders have already been written out," or something close to that. The other is the revelation of the plan for three world wars, as outlined in Albert Pike's letter to Guiseppe Mazzini.
I'm just saying that the 6 million Jews dead number came from the Nazis. That fact gets ignored by Holocaust deniers. The Nazi trains ran on time and they kept ridiculously scrupulous records. All the Jews were tattooed with numbers and I know Holocaust survivors who still have the numbers on their arms. It's chilling to see the tattooed and really brings to life the reality of the Holocaust.
I don't question the Nazi number of 6 million Jews exterminated. The Nazis did certain things very well and record keeping was one of them.
Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 24, 2013, 04:56:53 AM
I'm just saying that the 6 million Jews dead number came from the Nazis. That fact gets ignored by Holocaust deniers. The Nazi trains ran on time and they kept ridiculously scrupulous records. All the Jews were tattooed with numbers and I know Holocaust survivors who still have the numbers on their arms. It's chilling to see the tattooed and really brings to life the reality of the Holocaust.
I don't question the Nazi number of 6 million Jews exterminated. The Nazis did certain things very well and record keeping was one of them.
Did you go and check the Jewish census figures I found in the Jewish Encyclopedia? I'm guessing not. I really don't want to carry on this debate, for too much emotion and money attend this fairly simple historical question. Let's move on...