I've been doing some reading over at the Pristine Faith Restoration Society .... mostly articles by Tim Warner who now pastors the Oasis Christian Center in Florida. They hold that our destiny is not heavenly. But that we are to rule and reign with Christ here in the new earth for a thousand years and then God will take up residence in the new earth in the heavenly Jerusalem that comes down to earth.
They of course use Revelation and parallel passages in Isaiah and other OT books that speak of the ever lasting Kingdom of the Messiah on earth. They state that the whole heavenly destiny thing is a hold over from gnosticism promulgated by Augustine. Gnosticism was of the Greeks as they could not accept the idea of the flesh becoming resurrected. They never really believed that Jesus was God in the flesh.
Jesus does say that the meek shall inherit the earth.
PS: They are strong literalists and though accept that much language in Revelation is figurative they believe that the literal grammatical interpretation must be applied wherever possible. They are futurists. They are not calvinists. They are post-tribulationists as to the timing of the resurrection and do not believe in a 'rapture' prior to or during the Great Tribulation.
Any thoughts? Thanks,
scot
:cloud9: In Noah's day only the wicked 'left' the earth. The righteous were RAISED UP above the water's of the judgment to the flesh, and never left it.
Additionally, the High Priest who went into the Holy of Holies (7th day in type, 1000 'year' reign) went in there barefoot, ie. representative of a people who are going to walk in heaven, but still have their feet on earth, just as our firstborn of MANY BRETHREN did. Blessings...
Quote
In Noah's day only the wicked 'left' the earth. The righteous were RAISED UP above the water's of the judgment to the flesh, and never left it.
That is something my mother often mentioned to me. One thing she and I could agree on about the bible was that it was the wicked that would be removed. There was a lot of stuff we did not see eye to eye on concerning the faith, but we both agreed we didn't see any magic rapture in the scriptures with people flying through the air, shoes dropping off behind them :laughing7: It tickles me some of the things I've read like that - entire books written about such notions.
Quote from: scotr on August 18, 2009, 08:28:31 AM
Jesus does say that the meek shall inherit the earth.
I love this earth.
I don't want to leave.
This world, yes.
This earth? NO.
Haven't even scratched the surface of all of it's majesty.
Father, please make me as meek as possible...
Heaven and earth shall Pass away But NOt my WORDS Math 13 ..
For mine the GOOD earth ( Body) we inherit is HIM, the word In Math 5 speak oNly of One kind..those who are HIS and all Inherit HIM...there really not different folk with certain Traits
For this to happen Our Bodies[ the wicked\Darkness] must perish , No Place in Good Earth for the wicked
Luk 8:8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear :icon_flower:
actual glorified bodies though, on an actual new earth... eh?
lions lying next to lambs...
and all that?
figurative and literal?
or just figurative?
what say you good people?
And please, if you good people would not yell at me, I'd appreciate it. :mblush: :HeartThrob:
I'm just asking a question. Just wondering what folks are thinking.
Wondering if folks have the same hopes within, that I have...
I'm just human.
Hi Sparrow
Not sure if your making comment on Me post..But for sure my comments were to the initiator of the thread intwined with what Card Added :icon_flower:
My Caps Emphasise On High points( always posted that way) there not meant to Shout ,sorry Girl :icon_flower:
The New Earth\ New Heavens for mine IS the NC...lots of NEW in the New Sparrow..New minds, New Hearts , New Jerusalem New Tongues etc..just the way the scriptures read for me :HeartThrob:
No one is Good, not after the flesh , we abide in the One who IS. :icon_flower:
Glorified , yes plz Sparrow, Had enough of this Mortal shell.. :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on August 31, 2009, 12:55:48 AM
Hi Sparrow
Not sure if your making comment on Me post..But for sure my comments were to the initiator of the thread intwined with what Card Added :icon_flower:
My Caps Emphasise On High points( always posted that way) there not meant to Shout ,sorry Girl :icon_flower:
The New Earth\ New Heavens for mine IS the NC...lots of NEW in the New Sparrow..New minds, New Hearts , New Jerusalem New Tongues etc..just the way the scriptures read for me :HeartThrob:
No one is Good, not after the flesh , we abide in the One who IS. :icon_flower:
Glorified , yes plz Sparrow, Had enough of this Mortal shell.. :icon_flower:
Oh no, not at all! I didn't think you were shouting at me Taffy!!! Sorry, I guess my words seemed a bit strange. :laughing7:
thanks for sharing what you shared. :HeartThrob:
I just like to pick people's brains.
QuoteOh no, not at all! I didn't think you were shouting at me Taffy!!! Sorry, I guess my words seemed a bit strange.
thanks for sharing what you shared.
I just like to pick people's brains.
He he :icon_flower:
No worries Sparrow TY for explaining :HeartThrob:
:icon_flower:
Wow, the site is just barely working for me this afternoon and this evening. Took five minutes to get to the reply page.
There's an awful lot of scripture about God's promises to Israel and their everlasting nature. The Kingdom will have no end. I am wary of dismissing all by simply tossing allegorical interpretation at the Word.
As to flesh being wicked/darkness that sounds like straight out gnosticism to me. That was the heart and soul of Greek philosophy. Interesting that the whole heavenly destiny idea came from the same place and was the main thing the Reformation kept in when tossing most of the errors of the Roman church.
Christ was sinless. He lived in a body. He resurrected in a body. A body that could eat fish and be touched and handled. We are told by Paul that we shall be like him in our new form. How can you make that go away with allegory or figurative language?
Christ meant something specific when he said the meek shall inherit the earth. This was not a figurative statement. Neither was what John says about the New Jerusalem. We are even given its physical measurements.
QuoteAs to flesh being wicked/darkness that sounds like straight out gnosticism to me
greetings.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the
body (( sōma )))
of this death? Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth;
the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The flesh body wars against the spirit body, when we speak of the flesh body, we speak
NOT of the epidermis, the epidermis is a wonderfull thing, the ""flesh"" acts as the body's major barrier against an inhospitable environment.
The tabernacle you dwell in and of itself is NOT wicked, but it IS subjected to vanity, and it IS dying.
The DUST we dwell in was NEVER ment to live forever, the DUST must be ground to powder and mixed with living water made a new lump!
peace and grace
chuckt
Quote from: scotr
There's an awful lot of scripture about God's promises to Israel and their everlasting nature. The Kingdom will have no end. I am wary of dismissing all by simply tossing allegorical interpretation at the Word.
The "rest" promised to the church is indeed everlasting. [Heb. 3:18, 4:1, 3, 5] The promised land and the history of ancient Israel, described in the OT, were intended for
our examples, Paul says in 1 Cor. 10:11.
The prophets found spiritual significance in many aspects of the land that Israel was promised as a possession.
Among the things the prophets used symbolically in their messages are rivers, both real and imaginary; they include the Jordan River [Psa. 114:3], the Euphrates [Rev. 9:14, 16:12], and the Nile [Gen. 15:18]; an imaginary river is the stream of living water that flows from Jerusalem in Zech. 14:8, and from the temple in Ezek. 47:7-9, and Joel 3:18. Christians have traditionally understood this to represent the Spirit of God and the Gospel going to the world from the church.
Also used symbolically are mountains, such as Sinai [Gal. 4:24], the Mount of Olives [Zech. 14:4], Zion [Heb. 12:22; Rev. 14:1]; and a figurative mountain that fills the earth in Dan. 2:35; hills; deserts, the wilderness, where the Israelites wandered for 40 years, was typical of the church's experience in the world [1 Cor. 10:11; Rev. 12:6, 14].
Also valleys, such as Gehenna, Meddigo, [Rev. 16:16] and the figurative valley formed in the Mount of Olives, when it is cleaved in the midst [Zech. 14:4]; seas; the Red Sea, [1 Cor. 10:2] the Dead Sea which becomes healed by the water from the temple [Ezek 47:8]; cities; Jerusalem [Heb. 12:22], Sodom, [Rev. 11:8] Jericho [Heb. 11:30], Babylon [Isa. 48:20; Jer. 51:6; Rev. 14:8; 16:19; 17:2; 18:2, 10, 21]; even neighboring countries are significant symbols, such as Egypt [Rev. 11:8], and Edom [Ezek. 25:12-14; Joel 3:19].
Besides these, the scriptures show that major events in Israel's history are significant in prophecy, providing types and figures for the church, including their bondage in Egypt [Jude 1:5; Rev. 11:8], the exodus [Acts 7:36]; their sojourn in the wilderness [1 Cor. 10:11]; wars, including the battles of the Israelites against the Canaanite nations under Joshua and others; the reign of David [1 Chr. 18:14], the apostasy of Israel under Ahab and Jezebel; the drought in the days of Elijah [Jam. 5:17]; a locust plague, [Joel 1-2]; earthquakes, [Zech. 14:5]; the exile in Babylon [Jer. 29:10]; the Jews' return from exile [Zech. 1:16]; the construction of the temple [Hag. 1:8]; the hellenization implemented by Antiochus IV, outlined in the prophecies of Daniel. All the above were the subjects of prophecies intended for the church.
Individuals are significant symbols in prophecy too; Abraham and Sarah [Rom. 4:16, Gal. 4:26], Hagar [Gal. 4:24], Isaac [Gal. 4:28], Jacob and his family [Rev. 7:5-8], Joseph [Heb. 11:22], Moses [John 1:17], Pharaoh, Joshua [Heb. 4:8], David, [Ezek. 34:23, 37:24; Hos. 3:5; Amos 9:11 Zech. 12:8], Elijah [Mal. 4:5], Jonah [Matt. 16:4], Cyrus [Isa. 44:28], Zerubbabel [Zech. 4:9].
There was much in the design of the tabernacle, and the details of the temple service that was typical of things in the gospel. Animals that are symbolic in prophecy include sheep, goat, horse, mule, ass, camel, ox, lion, bear, leopard, snake, locust, fish, eagle, dove. Plants mentioned in prophecy are the olive, fig, and cedar trees, grape vine, wheat. Foods such as manna, bread, wine, and milk are types. Incense is a type.
Heavenly bodies are symbolic too; the sun, moon, stars are types. Day and night, and the seasons are also typical. The annual holy days are related to the spring and harvest seasons. Days, years, months, and multiples of years are also figures and symbols. Clouds, rain, hail, snow, wind, light and dark, lamps, candles, oil, water, and gold, silver, brass, iron, clay, wood, rock, earth, pearls, precious stones, clothes, armor, weapons, such as swords, are all types and symbols in prophecy.
Quote from: scotr
Christ meant something specific when he said the meek shall inherit the earth. This was not a figurative statement. Neither was what John says about the New Jerusalem. We are even given its physical measurements.
Surely you don't consider those measurements to be literal, do you?
Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit
all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Doug
I think this is where things get difficult for us when trying to comprehend Spiritual Truth with our natural understanding. we tend to mix spirit with flesh more than we realize. John's little epistles speak of the fact that God IS light. And IN Him there is no shadow of turning. For me, when my conclusions evoke filtered light, there is something not quite in place.
When I try to measure Scripture's spiritual intent with literal applications, I'm filtering the pureness of light. Minds can not conceive how things are going to be. It can only be revealed through spiritual means. And for me, that's where the signs and symbols come in. They point "to" the truth, but only the spirit can use those signs to reveal what that truth is.
So to try to fit this natural realm/earth into a spiritual reality is amusing at best, and misleading at worst. God leaves us patterns to reveal his nature. The fact that he didn't remove Noah from the earth while he dealt with the carnality "of" the earth is extremely significant. Same with Israel's bondage in Egypt. God didn't remove Israel first, "then" send the plagues, he protected them in the midst of the plagues.
I, again, believe that this earth will return to it's original state, I don't know the details of "how" that will happen, and I could very well be wrong in my own assessment. But the bigger issue with me is, "when" these things happen, the realm we live in now, will not be the same realm we'll spend our time in "then". This is not the spirit realm. This realm is as the Old Covenant, it's temporary. I am not flesh first with spirit inserted later. I am first a spirit, and I've been assigned to this temporary body in this vapor of time.
Spirit is not bound by natural laws of time or decay. Yes, Jesus resurrected body ate natural fish. But for me, that was because his love is for spirit beings in natural bodies. When we make the same transformation into resurrected bodies, our abode will no longer be in this natural realm . . .so eating natural fish won't be necessary.
Quote from: Nathan on September 03, 2009, 06:05:30 PM
The fact that he didn't remove Noah from the earth while he dealt with the carnality "of" the earth is extremely significant. Same with Israel's bondage in Egypt. God didn't remove Israel first, "then" send the plagues, he protected them in the midst of the plagues.
But He did remove people at the destruction of Sodom and the other 4 cities.
Quote from: WhiteWings on September 03, 2009, 06:32:11 PM
Quote from: Nathan on September 03, 2009, 06:05:30 PM
The fact that he didn't remove Noah from the earth while he dealt with the carnality "of" the earth is extremely significant. Same with Israel's bondage in Egypt. God didn't remove Israel first, "then" send the plagues, he protected them in the midst of the plagues.
But He did remove people at the destruction of Sodom and the other 4 cities.
Yeah and I've often wondered about that. It could be that Lot's relationship with the Father wasn't all that evident whereas Noah clearly found favor in the eyes of the Lord. The only reason Lot was saved was due to the intercession of Abraham.
It could also be that it's depicting the condition of one's heart in that Lot "chose" to live where he was and the message of Light needed to lead him out by the hand because not all the earth was being destroyed and Lot could easily step out of the corruption. Whereas with Noah, the whole earth was being flooded, so he'd need supernatural intervention, and with Israel, they were in bondage and could not very well be led out until the power that had them in bondage could be dealt with.
Sparrow,
The truth is, (for me) I don't know if the material world is going to vanish into something wholly other which is spiritual. It is something I never stop wondering about and trying to understand. How can anyone be sure of it, really? The thing for me is that the curse includes having to LABOR - to work to stay alive, to sweat and struggle and be stressed out. So something is definitely going to change in a BIG way for that not to be our reality. I want to be conscious of love and beauty and Christ, while at the same time not being under the bondage of corruption. I want to be alive yet completely separated from all that has to do with being subjected to death. I want to be separated from SIN and all its accompaniments. And that, my dear friend, is truly beyond my ability to imagine. But it is my blessed HOPE. If I did not have that hope, I would not be able to bear being mortal, really. Were it not for the promise, I'd rather have never been born.
You don't mind if I shout do you? :director: :skittles: GLORY TO GOD!!!
anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on September 05, 2009, 12:01:57 AM
Sparrow,
The truth is, (for me) I don't know if the material world is going to vanish into something wholly other which is spiritual. It is something I never stop wondering about and trying to understand. How can anyone be sure of it, really? The thing for me is that the curse includes having to LABOR - to work to stay alive, to sweat and struggle and be stressed out. So something is definitely going to change in a BIG way for that not to be our reality. I want to be conscious of love and beauty and Christ, while at the same time not being under the bondage of corruption. I want to be alive yet completely separated from all that has to do with being subjected to death. I want to be separated from SIN and all its accompaniments. And that, my dear friend, is truly beyond my ability to imagine. But it is my blessed HOPE. If I did not have that hope, I would not be able to bear being mortal, really. Were it not for the promise, I'd rather have never been born.
You don't mind if I shout do you? :director: :skittles: GLORY TO GOD!!!
anne
Shout all you want! :icon_flower:
I loved your post! :icon_flower:
I kind of see the "natural" world being glorified into something that we can't quite imagine.
Perhaps those scenes from that lovely bones movied that Tim posted kind of hint at (a bit) of what is in my own heart of a "glorified" creation. A creation in it's non-fallen state.
"Natural", yet so much MORE natural than it has ever been. (If that makes sense.)
I think it is, like you said, beyond our imagination.
What is UN-natural is the fallen state of things.
Sin.
Animals eating animals.
All the fear.
Think of how much FEAR there is in this world.
Not just humans.
But animals.
So much fear.
No communication between each other.
All of creation being utterly and totally fearful of the REST of creation!!
This is what is unnatural.
I think things will be restored to a state so glorious, we can't even imagine.
The corruption will put on INcorruption.
That is the seed of hope that is nurtured within my heart.
Quote from: sparrow on September 05, 2009, 04:31:23 AM
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on September 05, 2009, 12:01:57 AM
Sparrow,
The truth is, (for me) I don't know if the material world is going to vanish into something wholly other which is spiritual. It is something I never stop wondering about and trying to understand. How can anyone be sure of it, really? The thing for me is that the curse includes having to LABOR - to work to stay alive, to sweat and struggle and be stressed out. So something is definitely going to change in a BIG way for that not to be our reality. I want to be conscious of love and beauty and Christ, while at the same time not being under the bondage of corruption. I want to be alive yet completely separated from all that has to do with being subjected to death. I want to be separated from SIN and all its accompaniments. And that, my dear friend, is truly beyond my ability to imagine. But it is my blessed HOPE. If I did not have that hope, I would not be able to bear being mortal, really. Were it not for the promise, I'd rather have never been born.
You don't mind if I shout do you? :director: :skittles: GLORY TO GOD!!!
anne
Shout all you want! :icon_flower:
I loved your post! :icon_flower:
I kind of see the "natural" world being glorified into something that we can't quite imagine.
Perhaps those scenes from that lovely bones movied that Tim posted kind of hint at (a bit) of what is in my own heart of a "glorified" creation. A creation in it's non-fallen state.
"Natural", yet so much MORE natural than it has ever been. (If that makes sense.)
I think it is, like you said, beyond our imagination.
What is UN-natural is the fallen state of things.
Sin.
Animals eating animals.
All the fear.
Think of how much FEAR there is in this world.
Not just humans.
But animals.
So much fear.
No communication between each other.
All of creation being utterly and totally fearful of the REST of creation!!
This is what is unnatural.
I think things will be restored to a state so glorious, we can't even imagine.
The corruption will put on INcorruption.
That is the seed of hope that is nurtured within my heart.
Amen!!!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
scot... :HeartThrob: :happy3:
IF IF IF IF IF everyone who ever lived EVER is going to be resureccted and put back on the earth (all at once)...Will there be enough room for all of us? I can barely get across the road these days as it is.
"the peacemakers will inherit the earth"...put me down with those folks thanks :thumbsup:
as for heaven...what is heaven? anyone been there to give us some insight?
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
IF IF IF IF IF everyone who ever lived EVER is going to be resureccted and put back on the earth (all at once)...Will there be enough room for all of us? I can barely get across the road these days as it is.
That's because all you folks cluster together in uninhabitable places known as cities. Cities were never God's plan for his people. I've read the entire population of the world could fit comfortably in Australia. That leaves the other 6 continents for the rest of us.
How much land is set aside for trees and chipmuncks in this country alone? If push comes to shove, we can always tell the chipmuncks to stand aside!
As of 31 January 2008 (2008 -01-31), according to the United Nations Environment Programme, the U.S. had a total of 6,770 terrestrial nationally designated (federal) protected areas. These protected areas cover 2,607,131 km2 (1,006,619 sq mi), or 27.08 percent of the land area of the United States.--wiki
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
IF IF IF IF IF everyone who ever lived EVER is going to be resureccted and put back on the earth (all at once)...Will there be enough room for all of us? I can barely get across the road these days as it is.
That's because all you folks cluster together in uninhabitable places known as cities. Cities were never God's plan for his people. I've read the entire population of the world could fit comfortably in Australia. That leaves the other 6 continents for the rest of us.
How much land is set aside for trees and chipmuncks in this country alone? If push comes to shove, we can always tell the chipmuncks to stand aside!
As of 31 January 2008 (2008 -01-31), according to the United Nations Environment Programme, the U.S. had a total of 6,770 terrestrial nationally designated (federal) protected areas. These protected areas cover 2,607,131 km2 (1,006,619 sq mi), or 27.08 percent of the land area of the United States.
--wiki
Where did you hear that cities were never Gods plan for his people?
Also, im talking here about EVERY human who has EVER lived on Earth since the Earth was made. That's a lot of people. Even the weight of them all on earth at once would probably have some effect on the planet, not to mention the resources they would all require at once...There's millions of people without food or water as it is.
:cloud9: I think that if He was a big enough God to raise them all from the dead, He'll figure out the logistics of the "small stuff". Don't forget the creation will be restored as well. Who knows what we've lost as far as that over time. Blessings....
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 05:50:27 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
IF IF IF IF IF everyone who ever lived EVER is going to be resureccted and put back on the earth (all at once)...Will there be enough room for all of us? I can barely get across the road these days as it is.
That's because all you folks cluster together in uninhabitable places known as cities. Cities were never God's plan for his people. I've read the entire population of the world could fit comfortably in Australia. That leaves the other 6 continents for the rest of us.
How much land is set aside for trees and chipmuncks in this country alone? If push comes to shove, we can always tell the chipmuncks to stand aside!
As of 31 January 2008 (2008 -01-31), according to the United Nations Environment Programme, the U.S. had a total of 6,770 terrestrial nationally designated (federal) protected areas. These protected areas cover 2,607,131 km2 (1,006,619 sq mi), or 27.08 percent of the land area of the United States.
--wiki
Where did you hear that cities were never Gods plan for his people?
Also, im talking here about EVERY human who has EVER lived on Earth since the Earth was made. That's a lot of people. Even the weight of them all on earth at once would probably have some effect on the planet, not to mention the resources they would all require at once...There's millions of people without food or water as it is.
There's millions of people without food and water because the powers that be like it that way. Don't think that is a necessary condition. Haven't you heard of farmers being paid not to farm?
I first heard that cities were not God's plan for his people in Genesis 2 when he created Adam to be his husbandman [farmer]. It was Cain who went off to build the first city, and we all know his reputation. But, Adam was created to tend and keep the garden of God. Note in the generations leading to Jesus, they were all farmers and shepherd kings.
As for the rest of it, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 05:57:15 PM
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 05:50:27 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 05:37:07 PM
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on September 30, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
IF IF IF IF IF everyone who ever lived EVER is going to be resureccted and put back on the earth (all at once)...Will there be enough room for all of us? I can barely get across the road these days as it is.
That's because all you folks cluster together in uninhabitable places known as cities. Cities were never God's plan for his people. I've read the entire population of the world could fit comfortably in Australia. That leaves the other 6 continents for the rest of us.
How much land is set aside for trees and chipmuncks in this country alone? If push comes to shove, we can always tell the chipmuncks to stand aside!
As of 31 January 2008 (2008 -01-31), according to the United Nations Environment Programme, the U.S. had a total of 6,770 terrestrial nationally designated (federal) protected areas. These protected areas cover 2,607,131 km2 (1,006,619 sq mi), or 27.08 percent of the land area of the United States.
--wiki
Where did you hear that cities were never Gods plan for his people?
Also, im talking here about EVERY human who has EVER lived on Earth since the Earth was made. That's a lot of people. Even the weight of them all on earth at once would probably have some effect on the planet, not to mention the resources they would all require at once...There's millions of people without food or water as it is.
There's millions of people without food and water because the powers that be like it that way. Don't think that is a necessary condition. Haven't you heard of farmers being paid not to farm?
I first heard that cities were not God's plan for his people in Genesis 2 when he created Adam to be his husbandman [farmer]. It was Cain who went off to build the first city, and we all know his reputation. But, Adam was created to tend and keep the garden of God. Note in the generations leading to Jesus, they were all farmers and shepherd kings.
As for the rest of it, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
I would really doubt God would have anything against a city, but thats up to you.
There are other passages where God says things like - 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
God had mercy on many cities, i dont see the problem with people coming together to create schools and religious buildings and a community.
Most parts of the world are inhabitual as well. For example 29.2% of earth is land 70% is water, not too mention much of the land is desert, barren and nothing can grow on it lol.
QuoteI would really doubt God would have anything against a city, but thats up to you.
There are other passages where God says things like - 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
God had mercy on many cities, i dont see the problem with people coming together to create schools and religious buildings and a community.
Most parts of the world are inhabitual as well. For example 29.2% of earth is land 70% is water, not too mention much of the land is desert, barren and nothing can grow on it lol.
Oh yeah, those Ninevans who can't discern their right hand from their left hand--I forgot about them. lol
God has mercy on everyone. That doesn't mean that we are necessarily living out his best plan for us. I'm not saying you should see a problem with cities, I'm saying that this was never God's plan for man. We can see how much satan hates farmers just by what the Communists did to the Russian farmers alone, starving them on their own farms. But, this is a story that is continually repeated throughout history. So there's the negative confirmation of it. God continually talks to us in farming language, because that is what were we meant to be.
As for barren desert, seen Dubai lately?
Or how about southern California?
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 06:17:32 PM
QuoteI would really doubt God would have anything against a city, but thats up to you.
There are other passages where God says things like - 11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?
God had mercy on many cities, i dont see the problem with people coming together to create schools and religious buildings and a community.
Most parts of the world are inhabitual as well. For example 29.2% of earth is land 70% is water, not too mention much of the land is desert, barren and nothing can grow on it lol.
Oh yeah, those Ninevans who can't discern their right hand from their left hand--I forgot about them. lol
God has mercy on everyone. That doesn't mean that we are necessarily living out his best plan for us. I'm not saying you should see a problem with cities, I'm saying that this was never God's plan for man. We can see how much satan hates farmers just by what the Communists did to the Russian farmers alone, starving them on their own farms. But, this is a story that is continually repeated throughout history. So there's the negative confirmation of it. God continually talks to us in farming language, because that is what were we meant to be.
As for barren desert, seen Dubai lately?
Or how about southern California?
Lol living in a city IS Gods plan for ALL mankind.
The story of Scripture begins in a garden but ends in a city!
33% of the Earth's land surface is desert.
Maybe you have a problem with living alongside people and would rather live away from everyone, i really don't know, but what your saying is just unscriptural...I don't even know why Im talking about this since its so stupid and insignificant, so ill stop now.
QuoteLol living in a city IS Gods plan for ALL mankind.
The story of Scripture begins in a garden but ends in a city!
33% of the Earth's land surface is desert.
Maybe you have a problem with living alongside people and would rather live away from everyone, i really don't know, but what your saying is just unscriptural...I don't even know why Im talking about this since its so stupid and insignificant, so ill stop now.
Not really. It begins in the garden wherein is the tree of life and it ends in the garden wherein is the tree of life. That's why it's called restoration.
That's not the skyscraper of life, that's the tree of life.
It's not so stupid and insignificant when you realize you wouldn't have one city without modern farming.
The city is a parasite, and completely vulnerable.
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 06:04:55 PMMost parts of the world are inhabitual as well. For example 29.2% of earth is land 70% is water, not too mention much of the land is desert, barren and nothing can grow on it lol.
At the moment yes. Things where diffrent before. What are now deserts was one farming land.
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 06:30:46 PM
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Lol living in a city IS Gods plan for ALL mankind.
The story of Scripture begins in a garden but ends in a city!
Where does it say it ends with a city. To be more exact; only a city. If there is only a city there is no need for gates in that city....
Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
QuoteI don't even know why Im talking about this since its so stupid and insignificant, so ill stop now.
He! Cool down.
Why both of you would want to keep debating something so silly is beyond me, im not here for pointless debates.
Respect my wishes to end it and stop trying to goad me, you sound like a bunch of atheists who just had their bums slapped.
Revelation 21:2 >>
NIV© I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 06:53:02 PM
Why both of you would want to keep debating something so silly is beyond me, im not here for pointless debates.
Are you now chickening out of your own debate?
QuoteRevelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
That's you proof? :pointlaugh:
Have a nice dream. I won't bother you anymore.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 02, 2009, 07:01:52 PM
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 02, 2009, 06:53:02 PM
Why both of you would want to keep debating something so silly is beyond me, im not here for pointless debates.
Chickening out of you own debate?
QuoteRevelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
That's you proof :pointlaugh:
Have a nice dream. I won't bother you anymore.
This is proof that NO-ONE is a bigger crap stirrer than a 'so called' Christian, forever arguing and crap stirring amongst themselves.
This was not my debate and I had no wish to debate about it because it's pointless as i have said a few times, but you wouldn't respect that would you?
Instead you goad me, laugh at me and call me names.
You've just confirmed to me your not really worth talking too and that your only really here for silly childish arguments.
Well i'm not here to argue or to get goaded into arguments by people like you.
Quote from: Molly on October 02, 2009, 06:37:59 PM
QuoteLol living in a city IS Gods plan for ALL mankind.
The story of Scripture begins in a garden but ends in a city!
33% of the Earth's land surface is desert.
Maybe you have a problem with living alongside people and would rather live away from everyone, i really don't know, but what your saying is just unscriptural...I don't even know why Im talking about this since its so stupid and insignificant, so ill stop now.
Not really. It begins in the garden wherein is the tree of life and it ends in the garden wherein is the tree of life. That's why it's called restoration.
That's not the skyscraper of life, that's the tree of life.
It's not so stupid and insignificant when you realize you wouldn't have one city without modern farming.
The city is a parasite, and completely vulnerable.
Molly you obviously have some phobia against cities! You seem to forget that cities give people learning, education, healthcare etc etc...Oh why am i bothering talking about this nonsense!
I'm not sure why you hate cities, and I don't really care. Good luck.
well, in the resurrection we are like the angels..and angels
dwell in heaven. Now we do go in and out of the Holy city
that comes down from heaven and encompassess the four
corners of earth and heaven...but there is a time when we go in
and come out no more.
what is this new heaven and new earth..well it is the
heavens cleansed of the accuser of the brethern first...then a
cleansed earth. when satan is released he goes out in the
earth [Gog] and encamps and surrounds the camp of the Holy
city
[our spirits]
til fire comes down out of heaven and devours them
[tares/wicked seed in earth or sin in our flesh] bundled to burn
just as building with wood the fire will burn it up.
a new heaven and new earth...Adam red earth last Adam
a life giving spirit.
if there is no more 'curse' then the son has been borne
and snatched up to the throne...and the woman is saved
through child-bearing.....'do I bring to birth and NOT give
deliverance?"
that 1000 yr reign of Christ is HIS sovreignty to give freely of
His life giving spirit to the fmily of Adam while it dwells in sinful
flesh on this earth.and dies the death that came through the
first Adam .
Adam lived 930 yrs..average time spent in
flesh cut to 70 years= total 1000 yrs
unless those days had been cut short no flesh would be saved
how is flesh saved?the flesh profits nothing,flesh and blood
can NOT INHERIT. ...an eternal spirit is given
Christ REIGNS IN LIFE ON BEHALF OF ALL MANKIND THAT ARE
UNDERGOING THIS BODY OF DEATH....the body is already dead
because of sin...but our mortal bodies are quickened or made
alive by the spirit...when our mortal bodies are quickened by
the spirit..it is the new earth. Have you received the Holy spirit?
then you are dwelling in a new earth..you are NOT cursed of
God,but blessed...even though you go through persecutions
and afflictions...your new earth is your immortal spiritual body..
bearing the image of Jesus Christ
though it pass through the waters and pass through the fire
the dust RETURNS to the earth from which it was taken..
and the SPIRIT RETURNS unto God who gave it
I AM RETURNING TO YOUR FATHER AND MINE
QuoteAny thoughts?
they are annihilationists? - I somehow like that idea of an earthly paradise but since I was on that concordant meeting I think the bible does actually teach a heavenly destiny of the believers.
this link goes also in that direction, very interesting:
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=306#
Thank you Sheila.
Quote from: sven on October 05, 2009, 10:36:21 PM
....I think the bible does actually teach a heavenly destiny of the believers.
please refer us to these passages...I've only seen that "peacemakers", "the meek" shall inherit the earth (and those were quotes from Jesus who've been to heaven and earth)...who gets heaven then?
Jesus and his 12 apostles talk about the Kingdom of Heaven coming to earth...not the other way around
Quote from: noname on October 06, 2009, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: sven on October 05, 2009, 10:36:21 PM
....I think the bible does actually teach a heavenly destiny of the believers.
please refer us to these passages...I've only seen that "peacemakers", "the meek" shall inherit the earth (and those were quotes from Jesus who've been to heaven and earth)...who gets heaven then?
Jesus and his 12 apostles talk about the Kingdom of Heaven coming to earth...not the other way around
I'm with you, noname. We're not going anywhere.
Heaven will be here. :icon_queen:
30The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.--Prov 10
Psalm 37:9
For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
I'll give it a try...
look at the pictoral example when God led His people out of
Egypt to inherit the promised land. There was a casting out of
the former residents of that land, for Israel to inherit.
This is an example in the flesh provided to help us get the
gist of the true spiritual meaning.
Please realize the angel of His presence that went before
them and the means He used to drive out the former inhabits so
that those with the promise and the presence of God could
inherit the land. Recall how He spoke of the earth vomiting out
from the land these inhabitants. Note that mild and meek
people that were following His leading/spirit inherited that
land to dwell in it.[promise to Abraham]
Holy spirit is a new spirit He places in us[our earth] the angel
of His presence...Emmamuel[GOD WITH US] New Heavens are
when the spirit of the prince of this world is cast out.This
casting out is done by spirit that throws lies and accusations
and condemnation from our former heavens..by revealing truth
and understanding from and through the Holy spirit. It is also in
this manner that false prophets are bound and beasts and
Babylon falls etc. and satan is abyssed.What is bound in heaven
[and cast out] is bound on earth[satan lyer and accusor that
misleads the entire inhabited earth and or/ anti-christ spirit
that denies atonement work and salvaton of all mankind.]Or
abyssing of satan.
At the end of the 1000yrs[day of judgement of kingdom of
darkness and favour to overcome saints/our time in this corrupt
flesh..satan is released from the abyss..the sin in our
flesh/death
surrounds the spirit of God in us..but the fire that comes down
from heaven[spirit of God in us]burns the carcass/suffering
outside the city/Exodus/exit'o dust/rise shake yourself free of
the dust,put on your glorious garments/Exodus 29;14,and
Zechariah 12;6 On that day I will make the leaders of Judah
like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves.
They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples,
[Gog's crowd]
v 8 On that day the Lord will sheild those who live in
Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David,
and the house of David will be like God.
on that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack
Jerusalem,but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
Jerusalem above expierences the above prophecy..the camp of
the Holy city is our spirits dwelling in this temporal
realm..surrounded by Gog's crowd or uncircumcized heart/flesh that
tramples down the outer courts/or Gog's crowd or the sin in our
flesh/or satan walking about to and fro in our earth.
Zechariah 13;8 in the whole land,declares the Lord,two thirds
will be struck down and perish,yet one third will be left in it.
This third I will bring into the fire
There is also a much higher fulfillment that involves our
spiritual inheritance being heavenly abodes...in this fulfillment
satan and his are cast out of heaven and spirits of mankind
take their places in a literal heaven. This is God raising up the
lowly or meek and casting down the proud and arrogant from
heaven. Jacob/Israel supplanter..heel are all connected with this
great spiritual reality. Our heel[end of flesh] is bruised by satan
in this realm..but satans head is crushed when the family of
Adam is raised with Christ into the heavens. How is satans
head crushed, he thought to reign over the stars..or to rise to
heaven again. But that rebellious spirit will be totally done
away with..the spirit in operation of the false prophet[serpent
that spoke to Eve in the garden,,the accusor of the brethern
[sin entered..Adam spoke the woman you gave me in
accusation,by same spirit] and the spirit of the man-killer[by
misleading into sin] will be totally obliterated. Total restitution
to the family of Adam that was lost by the operation and
mind/head of satan will be done and satans designs crushed.
The commandment for the family of Adam has been unto life..
for this reason the command to not eat of tokogae was given..
to protect our lives. The spirit of the lawless one immediately
moved in opposition to resist the will of God and entered into
the corruptible flesh of A&E. Adam was given dominion over the
earth and all the creatures thereof..but the serpent the most
subtil beast of the feild bruised his heel when he injected his
toxic spirit into the corruptible flesh of man. That toxic spirit is
sin error a missing of the mark. The mark is the will of God. His
perfect will. The mark of the beast is the will of satan, the
accusor of man to God and mankiller.
All the family of Adam will bear the image of the spirit of
Jesus Christ and enter into the Holy of Holies..heaven
into the very presence of God.
Thank you Sheila.
:cloud9: Amen Sheila........thank you for pouring out.......Blessings.....
Quote from: sheila on October 06, 2009, 06:41:11 PM
on that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack
Jerusalem,but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
are you talking about "spiritual" Jerusalem or the earthly? for we know from the prophets that Jerusalem will one day be totally destroyed and no one will live there anymore...AND that it would be replaced by the new Jerusalem
Quotesurrounded by Gog's crowd or uncircumcized heart/flesh that
tramples down the outer courts/or Gog's crowd or the sin in our
flesh/or satan walking about to and fro in our earth.
what of the Magog crowd? who/what are they in your undestanding?
Quote
There is also a much higher fulfillment that involves our
spiritual inheritance being heavenly abodes...
please clarify this...what is our "spiritual inheritance" and where are the "heavenly abodes"?
again, Jesus tells me different...He tells me that our reward would be earth...that His Kingdom would grow and fill the whole earth eventually...I do not get from Him that we are going to leave to go somewhere else...but maybe you can direct me to some of His words stating the opposite?
Quote from: noname on October 07, 2009, 11:53:36 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 06, 2009, 06:41:11 PM
surrounded by Gog's crowd or uncircumcized heart/flesh that
tramples down the outer courts/or Gog's crowd or the sin in our
flesh/or satan walking about to and fro in our earth.
what of the Magog crowd? who/what are they in your undestanding?
Ezekiel says in chapter 38, in the prophecy of Gog and Magog, that the invaders come against "the mountains of Israel," [Ezek. 38:8] and against "a land of unwalled villages," [Ezek. 38:11] and against "the prophets of Israel." [Ezek. 38:17]
In Revelation 20:8-9, John refers to Gog and Magog, and identifies them with nations who are deceived by Satan, who come from "the four corners of the earth," an expression indicating the four cardinal directions, N,S,E, & W, who are gathered together to battle, and they "compass the camp of the saints round about."
These are armies of people who come against the church. It is not a military invasion but a spiritual one. The saints are identified with Israel, and with the holy city, in the New Testament. When John refers to "the camp of the saints" he alludes to Israel in the wilderness. Paul said the history of the Israelites in the wilderness was recorded for our example; "they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." [1 Cor 10:10] In Rev. 12 the church is pictured fleeing to the wilderness
twice, [vs. 6 & 14] which depicts the saints escaping from the bondage of sin, and the corruption that is in the world, [2 Pet. 1:4] as Israel escaped from Egypt, and Lot and his family escaped from Sodom.
The "mountains of Israel" are symbolic of the major covenants, promises, and prophecies of scripture. The kingdom of God, for example, is called a mountain in Isa. 2:2, and in Dan. 2:35. Mount Zion is symbolic of the church, [Heb. 12:22-23] and the Mount of Olives is symbolic of the Olivet Discourse of Jesus. Mount Sinai represents the Mosaic legislation in Gal. 4:24. All the promises of God were inherited by Jesus, and are available to us through him. [2 Cor. 1:20; Eph. 2:12-13; 2 Pet. 1:4] Paul says the prophets and apostles are the foundation of the church. [Eph. 2:20]
Thus, IMO, the invasion by the hordes of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel's prophecy represents an invasion of the church by all sorts false teachings, and flawed interpretations of scripture, and especially of prophecy. It corresponds to "the flood from the mouth of the serpent" in Rev. 12, that threatens to carry away the woman, who represents the church.
Rev. 12:14
And the serpent sent out of his mouth after the woman water as a flood, that he should make her to be drawn of the flood. The Jewish state in Palestine today is not a "land of unwalled villages." Some popular dispensationalist preachers say the Gog-Magog invasion describes a modern military invasion of the Jewish state by Russia, Iran, and several other modern nations. They even advocate a pre-emptive attack on Iran. But the construction of the separation barrier wall or fence in Palestine, in the past few years, discredits their claims. This is a prominent wall or fence over 700 km long and up to 8 m high separating the Israeli areas from their Palestinian neighbors. The wall thwarts their interpretation of Ezekiel's prophecy. It cannot refer to the modern state of Israel.
The armies of Gog and Magog are said to be armed with swords, spears, and bows and arrows, and carry shields. These are symbolic of the weapons of a spiritual warfare. There is a "war of words;" and arrows are symbolic of "bitter words."
Psa. 64:3
Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:And Ezekiel 38:15 says the invaders all ride upon horses. What modern army rides upon horses? Horses are identified in scripture in as people who lack understanding.
Psa. 32:9
Be ye not as the horse, or as the mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee.The armies of the invaders fight against each other.
Ezek. 38:21
And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.God pleads with them with blood and pestilence. [Ezek. 38:21-22] They are rained upon, with fire, brimstone, an overflowing rain, and hailstones. [vs. 22] They fall on the mountains, and in the open field. [Ezek. 39:4-5] The smell of their corpses "stops the noses of the passengers." [vs. 11] Their corpses are buried over a period of 7 months, and their weapons are buried for 7 years. [vs. 9, 12] Their flesh is fed to the birds and beasts. [vs. 17-20]
If God were really trying to kill a vast horde of people, why would he need so many attempts? Would not pestilence alone be enough to kill them? Why the fire, and brimstone? And hailstones? And once they were killed, why so many apparently conflicting ways of disposing of their corpses? According to Ezekiel, their corpses are (1) buried for 7 months; (2) lie unburied on the ground, causing a great stench; (3) eaten by birds and beasts.
I suggest the slain armies in Ezekiel's prophecy, and the corpses, are metaphors, that represent delusions. During the entire history of the church, the struggle against error, ignorance, heresy, and apostasy fulfills Ezekiel's prophecy. The invaders are all the false teachings, and flawed interpretations, that oppose the Spirit of Christ, and his word! The church's warfare is spiritual, Paul said. It is not a war of flesh and blood in which the saints fight against each other.
Eph 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.We need to put on the armor of God, such as having our "loins girt about with truth."
Eph. 6:14-17
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Jesus warns us to "keep our garments."
Rev. 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.Doug
Doug,
thanks for the reply, I understand your interpretation...
my problem is still that you say that the new testament refers to "spiritual" things as apposed to "earthly/fleshy" type of things and that there is a "spiritual warfare" to be fought against the "church" as ooposed to Jerusalem/Israel...but in the same explanation you quote the old testament on warfare and pestilence...
that's why i must honestly say that this is all an interpretation by combining certain parts of the Bible
surely, if we call ourselves Christians or followers/believers of Jesus...quote me His words regarding heaven or our heavenly destiny...can you?
your home is where-ever you are born from. If you are born from below[first Adam] the earth is your inheritance..and temporal because of sin entering in.
Have you not heard 'you must be born again" and that Jesus Christ is the first-born of the dead. And that as you have bore the image of the corruptible[first Adam] so too, you must bear the image of the Incorruptible last Adam..a life giving spirit.
Your eternal inheritance is heavenly..your tmporal inheritance is earthly.All things are yours..whether death,life,temporal or
eternal. Some have not yet realized what their life is 'hidden' in Christ. It is a beautiful inheritance God has stored up for all mankind. Though we be lowly in our present temporal estate
Paul was convinced NOTHING could seperate us from the love of God manifested by Jesus Christ...not even this temporal realm
Hebrews 3;1 Therefore holy brothers who share in the heavenly calling,fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high preist,whom we confess
It is written..many are called,few are chosen...this refers to
those that lay hold of the upward call and the first resurrection in this temporal realm,only those born again while still dwelling in the temporal. Most of mankind learn of their heavenly inheritance only after they leave this temporal realm...they,
too, receive it as a free gift. The parable of Lazarus that went to the bosom position of Abraham shows forth this spiritual reality. A beggar on earth...spiritually poor...but nurtured at the paps as a child that is due to inherit everlasting life in heaven.
the kingdom taken by force bespeaks of the offspring of viper spirit..Pharisee,sadducee self-righteous religious spirit in people that sit in the seat of Moses as an abomination, saying they reign on God's throne, usurpers of rulership of the Kingdom..
and is portrayed as the rich man in the parable .They do not receive the testimony of Jesus,,even if someone should rise from the dead .
The authority is Christ's..the Word of truth involving the Kingdom as it pertains to the family of Adam..both on earth and in heaven will stand eternally, regardless that usurpers are
under they mistaken impression that they are rulers and judges of anything that pertains to mankind,as to who is to inherit or to who it legally belongs. Shiloh comes...and God's words show forth the eternal truth.
You that love the earth...continue to do so,God gave it to the family of Adam to have in subjection..even though the serpent rose up in rebellion to have sin reign over Adam;s flesh..instead of Adam's family ruling over sin...for He freely gave you Jesus Christ..and He overcome the sin in this world and reigns over it
as well as in Heaven,until all enemies,the last being death is brought to nothing.
You MUST be born again from above..and you will...and when this occurrs for any and all of you..you must return home.
And it will be in your heart to do so...for where your heart is,so too, is your treasure. He give you both the heart for this earth
and the new heart for heaven, as He will continue to give you all things to sustain you eternally.
Our Father's work of His hands created this realm and the eternal for our provision. He is a great provider for the life of His family and He will sustain you eternally
See what manner of Love you are loved by Him?This love
will never fail you. Take heart,take hold of Him,for your life is of Him and He is your life.
Love joy and blessings to all His children..no matter what current state,for you are not rejected of Him,but dearly loved.
sheila...you have a strange way of answering questions...with another sermon? :mshock:
Wonderful to read your posts, Sheila.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Rev. 21:4
:cloud9: Amen, thanks for sharing, Sheila........Blessings....
Heavenly Destiny:
(Phil. 3:20) For our conversation {citizenship} is in heaven.
(Col. 3:1-2) If we are to set our minds on things above and not on things on earth, then it stands to reason that we will be there at some point. Why the scriptures? We may be here when all is said and done but I believe we will be in heaven also.
(Eph. 1:3 2:6)
CHB
I'm still waiting for anyone to quote me Jesus on our "heavenly destiny"...
no one???