Cataclysm?

[marie glen]

I know not everyone believes the Book of Rev/Apoc is literal. But I believe all of life is a metaphor.. yet still literal! :bigGrin: I believe man's system of things is bound to crash (fall,apocalypse). Isaiah said "all your high towers will fall" again, surely metaphorical, yet also I believe literal, in that this life is surely the chewing upon that fruit of the "knowing of good and evil" (learning good/life, from evil/death/nonlife). That all things false are nonlife/imperfect, and can only fade and fall; or crash and burn, as the saying goes.. which is what I think the Book of Revelation is all about..

IF Apocalypse is, or were to be literal, what event might this following refer to?

Revelation 13:13
- "He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." (I can't figure out why this doesn't ring a bell with most bible prophesy scholars and the books they write) "he" here is referred to as "a man" (verse 18 & 11) but I think it is an office of man, differentiatied from verse 1, which I believe is a world thing (/body).

I'm wondering if it rings a bell with anyone here..

---To me this is a very informative cross reference to it, the sixth seal's opening---
Revelation 6:12-15; 7:1 [a great change, a new thing, a new wind, so ominous, this opening of a new thing or wind, that it's a great global spiritual earthquake]

note: It seems to me the "seals" are a place in the Book of Rev where the book's message is obscured, locked and made hidden ("for a time"). With the lock working like this; each opening of a seal is described here in a blend, of -1- the seal or new thing as it is when it is first "opened" and also -2- as it is in its fully progressed form at the 'end'. This locks much of the Book of Revelation because things very late in the narrative, are included here so very early in the narrative. A very effective obscuring..

the cross reference - Revelation 6:12-15; 7:1:
- "I looked when He" (the Lamb) "opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains.." (remember bomb shelters?) "After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree." (For a while? The title of this section in my bible is "an interlude".)

What do you think these verses are referring to? If an event, is it past or future?

[PaoloNuevo]

EDITED: ill just PM you, marie

[Beloved Servant]

Well, my 2 cents, since Jabcat just gave me 6 — I'll splurge!

If even one star hit the earth from heaven it would obliterate the earth instantly.

[micah7:9]

The Book of Revelation=Apocalypse= disclosure=to take off the cover=disclose: - reveal
The revealing and uncovering of Jesus Christ. It is not literal.... for the very first book  reads
Rev 1:1 The Unveiling of Jesus Christ, which God gives to Him, to show to His slaves what must occur swiftly; and He signifies it, dispatching through His messenger to His slave John,
It is not a literal understanding, it is a book that shows with signs and symbols, the very working of Jesus Christ within His saints, those that will hear what the Spirit is saying to those called out, To Day.
I contend that as long as the saints continue to read the Book of the revealing of Jesus Christ with natural sight and reason, they will  always reason and understand within the earhty/natural.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN  :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

"...those called out, To Day."


wow, that's good, Micah!

[micah7:9]

Hallelujah!

[marie glen]

Well, my 2 cents, since Jabcat just gave me 6 — I'll splurge!

If even one star hit the earth from heaven it would obliterate the earth instantly.

hi! just a couple of short notes, if there's an earthquake I'm sure it looks like the stars are moving.. also, if the seals are described as when that 'element' of the age (of A.D.) began, and also as they are when 'finished', like Peter wrote how things will melt with a fervent heat, it may very well be very intense. Time will tell if prophecy is only allegory.. Were the prophesies of Christ allegory too? or just some prophecy? some yes, some no.. "Happy are those who read this book" (Revelation) "and happy those who hear and keep what is written" Revelation 1:3 and 22:7 - a coming generation may need to know.

[thinktank]

Its uncertain whether these jugments are supernatural or whether the trumpets are announcing judgment.

The stars could be a nuclear bomb or some kind. Since men are total idiots and have warred since the begining it wouldnt suprise me if there was a nuclear war of some kind in the future.

But I think there might be a combination of Gods judgments and mens own stupidity and evil, so God has to intervene and destroy those who destroy the earth.
:2c:

[marie glen]

The Book of Revelation=Apocalypse= disclosure=to take off the cover=disclose: - reveal
The revealing and uncovering of Jesus Christ. It is not literal.... for the very first book  reads
Rev 1:1 The Unveiling of Jesus Christ, which God gives to Him, to show to His slaves what must occur swiftly; and He signifies it, dispatching through His messenger to His slave John,
It is not a literal understanding, it is a book that shows with signs and symbols, the very working of Jesus Christ within His saints, those that will hear what the Spirit is saying to those called out, To Day.
I contend that as long as the saints continue to read the Book of the revealing of Jesus Christ with natural sight and reason, they will  always reason and understand within the earhty/natural.
Peace and Love Through Jesus

hi! :bigGrin:
I believe it is allegorical in that all our false towers must fall, and paradise within shall be restored.. Yet if that's true, isn't it true globally with man's towers as well? And if it is, a warning, on a par with Jesus' warnings "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies" - "when you see the abomination that desolates set up"... then we do a coming generation (our kids or grandkids) a great disservice to miss its message and intent. (The things in Rev are big as ya please, standing boldly in the world *of today*, taking shape, forming up, and the mainstream prophecy group has a LOT of it wRong. Dangerously so.)

John was told "Write. For these words are trustworthy and true."
The book itself pretty much opens with the message of "blessed are those who read aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and heed it".. and of course pretty much closes with "blessed are those who hear and heed, and don't take away from it"..

We think it's allegorical because we don't understand it and we don't understand it because as Daniel wrote prophecy is hid "for a time" - one lock being the fancy footwork of the 4 horsemen (or more accurately the Seals which I already mentioned). And also, the 'left behind' and all that, doesn't help! :laugh:

Why would the revealing of the work of Jesus which was evidenced in His life and written of extensively all through the new testament be written again but in code? Wasn't it the gnostics who thought there was hidden meanings in the gospel that only an elect few would/could understand.. Til they actually came to believe Jesus Himself was allegorical? (Never really here? certainly not returning.)

I confess I came to an understanding of the gospel on my own, no church. So picked up on UR early on, and have done the studies on my own through prayer and waiting upon HIM.

I don't think anything in the bible needs to be allegorical to support UR. Even the lake of fire is likely a lake of burning oil. Note location. Of course "2nd death" iS alleghorical, as the only two to go there (the world beast 13:1 and the false prophet/teaching are not alive at all! :laughing7:)

[micah7:9]

Its not code. "Why would the revealing of the work of Jesus which was evidenced in His life and written of extensively all through the new testament ..."

Rom 8:19 For the premonition of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God.

Theres your answer.

[marie glen]

That''s what the 22 chapters of the book of revelation is about? ...and if so what 'happens' when that 'happens'? status quo? all man's institutions remain standing?