In another forum we're discussing this, so I thought I'd post it here also. (btw this was 2 posts, I put a line for demarcation)
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To get a better understanding of what the mark is I look up the word and here is the only other usage of mark in the bible besides the mark of the beast
Acts 17:29 NRSV
Since we are Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image(mark) formed by the art and imagination of mortals.
Kind of interesting as we're contrasting Spirit(deity) with Physical(flesh). (I had listed a couple of the key verses that show this in an earlier post)
This passage is basically a summary of my viewpoint a cypher if you will.
1Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shallf also bear the image of the man of heaven.
Here is every instance of imagination G1761 imagination/ the desires of the heart/carnal mind the carnal mind brings forth the image
[Mat 9:4 ESV] - But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?
[Mat 12:25 ESV] - Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand.
[Act 17:29 ESV] - Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.
[Hbr 4:12 ESV] - For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
There are only really 2 usages of the word mark(charagma) the mark of the beast and Acts 17:29. Both are referring to idolatry vs. the True God. Physical vs spiritual.
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
a (a is added) man is anthropos=mankind carbon is 6 protons 6 electrons 6 neutrons, six is the day of mans creation
Name signifies more than just the word "Nicholai" (a little "left behind" reference) scratched on someones hand or head. When we pray in the name of Jesus it isn't in the letters J E S U S, its what those letters represent. Its character or nature. And the nature of the number is mankind or Adam. As in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. To those who overcome I will give a new name, a new nature. (how do we overcome? by the blood of the lamb, by picking up our cross and dying to our flesh, by the new and living way inaugurated by Jesus)
Rev 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments , and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (white garments=linen for priests, as opposed to wool/ coming from beasts)
Rev 15:2 And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands.
Image(eikon/icon)
There are 4 categories of usage here
1. the inscription on Caesars coin (give to caesar what is caesars). Caesar is a man who is a god Look at the context of this. In Matthew 22 its the story of the wedding banquet and the man being thrown out for not having his wedding clothes. The wedding clothes signify the man of heaven, clothed in righteousness. Then the caesar piece, natural vs. spiritual, then we're back to talking about the resurrection again. (1 cor quoted above). Mark 9 and Luke 20 have the same except the first part is the story of the tenants. The end quote Jesus uses is "the stone the builders rejected is the chief cornerstone" which is of course talking about the temple, and the temple is us, not some building made of gold or silver or of human hands (Heb 10:1). The rest of Mark and Luke narratives are basically identical.
2. Romans 1:23 exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for the image of man, beasts, birds, creepers. What caused this exchange? They became futile in their thoughts, their minds, imaginations, and they were given up to the lusts of the flesh
3. Image of the man of heaven, who is the image of the invisible God. Contrasted with the image of the man of earth/dust/flesh
4. Image of the beast
I contend each of these categories is summed up as:
Image of the physical/creation vs. spiritual/creator, idol vs. true God
Where did the image of the beast get set up (the abomination of desolation)? In the holy of holies. Don't you know you are the temple of the Holy Spirit? A temple not built by human hands, which is only a shadow of the things to come, not the very image. Come let us be making man in our image. Do not be conformed to this world, but to the image of the Son who is the express image of God.
What is the theme of Revelation?
Rev 1: 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants––things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
Signified=given in signs
Revelation=unveiling G601 The revelation of mystery, which is Christ in you the hope of glory. Creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. Even now this gospel is veiled, their minds are veiled, just as moses had to wear a veil to cover the glory which was fading, which is a type, as all these things happened for our example.
Isa 25
And He will destroy on this mountain The surface of the covering cast over all people, And the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever
How? by throwing death into the lake of fire, who else is in the lake of fire but the beast and those with the image
The veil was torn, which is Christs flesh, the veil is death, the veil is over our minds, our minds our blinded by the god of this world so we will not see the glory, Christ in you is the hope of glory
The man of sin/perdition=antichrist/beast, Therefore, just as through one man (old man/earthy/dust) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned––, what is death again? the veil cast over all people, and sin was condemned in the FLESH
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Chi Xi Stigma (666)
the 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (4742 as a cross) of the Greek
alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers;
denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral:-six hundred
threescore and six.
see GREEK for 4742
Stigma G4742
1) a mark pricked in or branded upon the body. To ancient oriental
usage, slaves and soldiers bore the name or the stamp of their
master or commander branded or pricked (cut) into their bodies to
indicate what master or general they belonged to, and there were
even some devotee's who stamped themselves in this way with the
token of their gods
Here is the only use of stigma(4727)
[Gal 6:11 NKJV] - See with what large letters I have written to you with my own hand!
[Gal 6:12 NKJV] - As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these [would] compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
[Gal 6:13 NKJV] - For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.
[Gal 6:14 NKJV] - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
[Gal 6:15 NKJV] - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision(old covenant/natural) nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation(new covenant/spiritual).
[Gal 6:16 NKJV] - And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy [be] upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
[Gal 6:17 NKJV] - From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks[4742] of the Lord Jesus.
[Gal 6:18 NKJV] - Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with your spirit. Amen.
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Here are all uses of 666 in the bible
2Ch 9:13
Solomon received 666 talents of gold per year, (1King 10:14 same thing) kings bringing gold into Jerusalem
I see this as a type of:
Rev 21 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24By its light will the nations walk, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it, 25and its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. 26They will bring into it the glory and the honor(wealth) of the nations.
-here is another usage of the word honor
1 cor 6:20 For you were bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body.
-the wealth the kings bring into the new jerusalem is those who have been tormented which we know is touchstone to test the purity of gold
(also in 2ch 9 is the description of an ivory throne overlaid with gold, only other reference to a white throne in bible)
Rev 13:18
This calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the beast's number, for it is man's number, and his number is 666.
Ezr 2:13
the descendants of Adonikam: 666; Adonikam means "The Lord Arose"
Neh 7:18 is a paralel passage to the above, except the numbers are different (bigvai also has a diff number in Ezra 2:14)
the descendants of Adonikam, 667;
Neh 7:19 the descendants of Bigvai, 2,067; (why the number discrepancy? to link these two names together?)
These are the only two instances of 67 appearing in the bible except here
Neh 7:72 What the rest of the people gave amounted to 20,000 gold drachmas, 2,000 silver minas, and 67 priestly garments.
adonikam=the lord arose (the daystar arises in our hearts)
bigvai =in my body
67 priestly garments (white robes/new creation)
Nice study, RHM.
for I bear in my body the
"marks" [of the Lord Jesus]
στίγμα
stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to "stick", that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.
We are already marked as belonging to Christ. :icon_flower:
thanks Molly, and yes we are, aint it great :dsunny:
:thumbsup:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH,WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...FROM THIS TIME FORWARD,CALL NO MAN,FATHER
HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN,IS MY BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER...
DO YOU GUYS SEE THE HOLY SPIRIT TOKEN/SEAL AS THE MARK?
Quote from: sheila on September 25, 2011, 12:58:13 AM
:thumbsup:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH,WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...FROM THIS TIME FORWARD,CALL NO MAN,FATHER
HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN,IS MY BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER...
DO YOU GUYS SEE THE HOLY SPIRIT TOKEN/SEAL AS THE MARK?
No. At least not going by what has been reported in the OP. The Holy Spirit is not, a mark, image
The way I understand it, the carnal nature and the mark of the beast are the same. It was mentioned, correctly that the unveiling of Jesus Christ, is by signs and symbols.
Acts 17:29 NRSV
Since we are Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image(mark) formed by the art and imagination of mortals.
"There are only really 2 usages of the word mark(charagma) the mark of the beast and Acts 17:29. Both are referring to idolatry vs. the True God. Physical vs spiritual."
How does physical "mark/image/etching/graven" become spiritual in The Revelation of Jesus Christ which is spiritual?
"2. Romans 1:23 exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for the image of man, beasts, birds, creepers. What caused this exchange? They became futile in their thoughts, their minds, imaginations, and they were given up to the lusts of the flesh"
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.
I just do not see how you can use the work "image" Image G1504 eikōn a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image. Explain it as a mark.
"Acts 17:29 NRSV
Since we are Gods offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image(mark) formed by the art and imagination of mortals.
I do not mean to be a problem, I just didn't understand I guess. I find this verse helpful in my searching
1Co 2:13 Which we also speak—not in words taught of human wisdom, but in such as are taught of the Spirit, by spiritual words, spiritual things, explaining.
what is a seal? seal 1.seal,mark a design,initial etc placed on a letter,document AS A MARK OF GENUINESes...and indication sign,token[a handshake]
as a seal of freindship
Rev 7;3 do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God
Eekiel 9;3,4 THEN THE LORD CALLED TO THE MAN CLOTHED IN LINEN WHO HAD THE WRITING KIT AT HIS SIDE,AND SAI,
'GO THROUGHOUT THE CITY OF JERUSALEM AND PUT A MARK ON THE FOREHEADS OF THOSE WHO GREIVE AND LAMENT OVER
ALL THE DETESTABLE THINGS DONE IN IT
Quote from: sheila on September 25, 2011, 03:48:51 AM
what is a seal? seal 1.seal,mark a design,initial etc placed on a letter,document AS A MARK OF GENUINESes...and indication sign,token[a handshake]
as a seal of freindship
Now its a seal(speaking only about this post,) I KNOW we are sealed....
2Co 1:22 who also sealed us, and gave the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth--the good news of your salvation--in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,
Eph 1:14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 4:30 and make not sorrowful the Holy Spirit of God, in which ye were sealed to a day of redemption.
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 25, 2011, 03:20:54 AM
"There are only really 2 usages of the word mark(charagma) the mark of the beast and Acts 17:29. Both are referring to idolatry vs. the True God. Physical vs spiritual."
How does physical "mark/image/etching/graven" become spiritual in The Revelation of Jesus Christ which is spiritual?
It is spiritual in that we are either in the image(icon) of adam(natural), or in the image(icon) of christ(spiritual), who is the image(icon) of the father
The mark is associated with the image, the mark is like an icon of the icon? Either way conceptually there is a bad mark, that of the beast, and a good mark, that of Christ. The law was to be written on the forehead and right hand. The jews actually wore filacteries on their foreheads with i believe a verse from Deut in it.
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 25, 2011, 03:20:54 AM
I just do not see how you can use the work "image" Image G1504 eikōn a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image. Explain it as a mark.
The mark of the beast is charagma (from the same root as charisma), eikon is obviously a different word. Both translated as image though, though that wasn't my point originally. Every verse that mentions those who take the mark, it says and worshipped the image(icon) of the beast.
Upon thinking on this more, I think the mark may be taken by carnal christians only. Everyone who lived on the earth, took it. If those who dwell in heaven are the overcomers, those who live on the earth are the carnal wheat christians, and those who live in the sea are the unsaved. The image of the beast we are all born with, the image of the dust man. To worship the image is to worship the carnal god, god made in the image of man, worshipping yourself, just as the image is used of caesar. To take the mark could mean to have accepted your carnal nature, the majority of the christian world, gonna slip in the pearly gates.
The image is the thing thats worshipped, the mark is evidence of that worship. Either we bear the mark of worship of our self, or we bear the mark of worship of the True God, not made of gold silver.
Quote from: sheila on September 25, 2011, 12:58:13 AM
:thumbsup:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH,WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...FROM THIS TIME FORWARD,CALL NO MAN,FATHER
HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN,IS MY BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER...
DO YOU GUYS SEE THE HOLY SPIRIT TOKEN/SEAL AS THE MARK?
I do now. When I did this study I had no idea that the passage "now I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus". And since the word mark (charagma) is from the same as (charis), grace, and gifts of the spirit (charisma), seems pretty likely. :thumbsup:
Quote from: sheila on September 25, 2011, 12:58:13 AM
:thumbsup:
WHAT IS BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH,WHAT IS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...FROM THIS TIME FORWARD,CALL NO MAN,FATHER
HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN,IS MY BROTHER,SISTER,MOTHER...
DO YOU GUYS SEE THE HOLY SPIRIT TOKEN/SEAL AS THE MARK?
YES!
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation.
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the
promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory. 15 For this
reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God's people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
--Eph 1
Okay, question then, What is the "mark" of Cain?.......What is the "mark" of the beast? :teaching: :grin:
The mark used on Cain is owth here are a couple usages
Deut 6:8 You should tie them as a reminder on your forearm and fasten them as symbols on your forehead.
Jer 10:2 The Lord says, "Do not start following pagan religious practices. Do not be in awe of signs that occur in the sky even though the nations hold them in awe.
Exo 12:13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are, so that when I see 1 the blood I will pass over you, 2 and this plague 3 will not fall on you to destroy you 4 when I attack 5 the land of Egypt.
Gen 17:11 You must circumcise the flesh of your foreskins. This will be a reminder 1 of the covenant between me and you.
the 'mark' of Cain is the 'shroud' of darkness that covered him[mind] when sin/demon ruled over him and incited him to slay his brother
,instead of him getting the mastery over it./the evil spirit .
God forbid vengenance on Cain by others...he become a wandere in the earth and symbolized that wicked generation that
perishes in the wilderness......scapegoat. and does not enter the promises[deceived spirit][see goat-shaped demons in wilderness/Lev 17;7
2 Ch 11;15,Isaaih 13;21,,34;14 goatskins Hebrews 11;47
Now,this not to say..that he was not to have spiritual regeneration when seperated from his flesh and raised up in Christ as a new creature....this is
the image of corruption that all men bear and due to perish in wilderness[wicked generation] For there is a REgeneration...REpent,REstore the Holy
generation of Christ.
This spiritual truth is also testified to in the Exodus and 40 years of wandering in the desert by Israel...the generation that perished in the wilderness
and the brazen serpent on the pole..
so the 'mark' on Cain, the Mark of the beast [most subtil beast of field/serpent] the shroud of deception upon the entire earth..the offspring of viper..
is the overcoming of man by the kingdom of darkness[man of sin]...anyone that receives the 'mark' CAN NOT LIVE.....due to being spiritually deceived
and therefore can not live/be spiritually alive. For God is a spirit of TRUTH..not a lie. Thus you see the promised seed of the[deceived] woman's son/spirit of truth
that crushes the serpents head[mind]. That sets free from error and missing the 'mark' of HOLY. Call it carnal mind,mark of Cain,offspring of viper
son of perdition,man of sin, mystery of inequity,godlessness,shroud that covereth/goat in LOF...it shall not live..for it can't it has no life..for it is a lie and the work
of the father of the lie and muderer from the beginning . God has said, I will NOT give my glory to another..and He won't. Adam lost his glory...Christ
restored it.
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 24, 2011, 07:34:43 PM
To get a better understanding of what the mark is I look up the word and here is the only other usage of mark in the bible besides the mark of the beast
.....
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
Gen 2 [ACV]
19 And out of the ground LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was the name of it.
Gen 3 [ACV]
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Yea, has God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
I think:
- Adam was one of the beasts. (Mankind is The beast)
- The serpent like any other beast was brought before Adam (Eve) by God.
QuoteWhere did the image of the beast get set up (the abomination of desolation)? In the holy of holies. Don't you know you are the temple of the Holy Spirit?
And Holies of Holies is (in) the brain.
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/members_lounge/great_white_throne_judgement_judgement_9521.msg119683.html#msg119683
Quote from: WhiteWings on September 28, 2011, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 24, 2011, 07:34:43 PM
To get a better understanding of what the mark is I look up the word and here is the only other usage of mark in the bible besides the mark of the beast
.....
Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
Gen 2 [ACV]
19 And out of the ground LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was the name of it.
Gen 3 [ACV]
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Yea, has God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
I think:
- Adam was one of the beasts. (Mankind is The breast)
- The serpent like any other beast was brought before Adam (Eve) by God.
QuoteWhere did the image of the beast get set up (the abomination of desolation)? In the holy of holies. Don't you know you are the temple of the Holy Spirit?
And Holies of Holies is (in) the brain.
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/members_lounge/great_white_throne_judgement_judgement_9521.msg119683.html#msg119683
yep
man without understanding[wisdom/love] is as a beast...now wisdom and love is a spirit of intelligent understanding[lspirit LOVE and truth]A WONDERFUL COUNSELOR
IGNORANCE[LACK OF UNDERSTANDING] AND SELFISHNESS LACK OF LOVE]=FOLLY[WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE[LIAR]/TRUTH OR LOVE]
it is a spirit contrary to the spirit of God...in the Holy of Holies....mind and heart....it misses the 'mark' of the High calling of God. AND HAS IT'S OWN IDENTIFYING
MARK. that is why jESUS SAID, 'i am from above,YOU ARE FROM BELOW
SO YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THE TREE BY IT'S FRUIT. fAMILY TREE OF GOD, OR ADVERSARY
WHAT'S BORN OF FLESH IS FLESH,WHATS BORN OF SPIRIT IS SPIRIT
Quote from: wwGen 2 [ACV]
19 And out of the ground LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was the name of it.
Gen 3 [ACV]
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Yea, has God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
I think:
- Adam was one of the beasts. (Mankind is The breast)
- The serpent like any other beast was brought before Adam (Eve) by God.
No. Mankind, Adam, is not one of the beasts. Neither is the serpent. Adam is created on a different day from the beasts. He is in the image and likeness of God. He names the beasts. And, please note, although God has already created the beasts before Adam, in Gen 1, in Gen 2 he creates them again specifically for Adam to name.
That Man is a beast is a great lie that Satan wants man to believe, so that he will feel no guilt at murder and oppression of his fellow men. Satan wants Man dead.
Neither is the serpent a beast [although he acts like one and wants man in his image]. He is a 'god,' a serpentine being of light, a.k.a. 'the Shining One., that old dragon, Satan.
Molly, the beasts are made on the sixth day so is adam.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." v 13 this is true
2 Pet 2:12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Ecc 3:18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 28, 2011, 09:26:50 PM
Molly, the beasts are made on the sixth day so is adam.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." v 13 this is true
2 Pet 2:12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Ecc 3:18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."
oops You're right. But, still in the image and likeness of God.
Do you think that something must be added to man to make him like God, or taken away from man to make him like beasts?
Quote from: Molly on September 28, 2011, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: wwGen 2 [ACV]
19 And out of the ground LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every bird of the heavens, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them, and whatever the man called every living creature, that was the name of it.
Gen 3 [ACV]
1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, Yea, has God said, Ye shall not eat of any tree of the garden?
I think:
- Adam was one of the beasts. (Mankind is The breast)
- The serpent like any other beast was brought before Adam (Eve) by God.
No. Mankind, Adam, is not one of the beasts.
Because?
QuoteNeither is the serpent. Adam is created on a different day from the beasts.
Depends on which beasts. Beasts of the field where created on the same day.
QuoteHe is in the image and likeness of God.
Really? Before you answer yes consider mankind is the most cruel of all creation.
QuoteHe names the beasts.
My parents named me. Does that mean they aren't human?
QuoteAnd, please note, although God has already created the beasts before Adam, in Gen 1, in Gen 2 he creates them again specifically for Adam to name.
The beasts of the first creation were uncreated? They got extinct? Why creating the same cow twice? It still is a cow.
QuoteThat Man is a beast is a great lie that Satan wants man to believe, so that he will feel no guilt at murder and oppression of his fellow men.
On what do you base that conclusion?
Let me make an opposite statement: Satan wants man to believe he (man) is above the beasts. Vanity. You shall be like God.
QuoteSatan wants Man dead.
Satan wants a lot of things but that doesn't make it a fact. But it seems satan's wish was granted because Adam died.
Quote from: Molly on September 28, 2011, 09:31:51 PM
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 28, 2011, 09:26:50 PM
Molly, the beasts are made on the sixth day so is adam.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." v 13 this is true
2 Pet 2:12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Ecc 3:18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."
oops You're right. But, still in the image and likeness of God.
Do you think that something must be added to man to make him like God, or taken away from man to make him like beasts?
I think all beasts (that includes man) have a soul. The life force. But the beast called man also has a spirit.
nâphach/neshâmâh and rûach
God named them the man of sin,because the spirit of the adversary entered in them, He said, I will not give my glory to another. Holy spirit must be added
and other spirit destroyed.put to death...go into everlasting cutting off
Note Nebuchaddnezer...mind of beast given unto until dew of heaven wet him...then his mind restored...and kingdom..when He admitted it is God who rules
and gives dominion.Restore man's dominion given by God
the nakedness of our flesh......and the earth will be laid bare and all that is in it[serpent eating dust of earth revealed,raises it's head[beast out of earth]
sin in flesh condemned. Beast out of sea, wicked like the troubled sea, babylon sits on beast/waters. our body made up of great percent of water.
waters of life,waters of death.
HE RESTORES MAN FROM THE EVIL SEIZURE OF THE ADVERSARY
the subtillity of the beast requires thatwe peer intently :mshock: Isaaih 14;15 but you are brought down to the grave,to the depths of the pit. Those who see you
stare at you and ponder your fate. IS THIS THE MAN[of sin] WHO MADE THE WORLD A DESSERT,WHO OVERTHREW IT'S CITIES
AND WOULD NOT LET HIS CAPTIVES GO HOME... :mshock:....LIKE A CORPSE TRAMPLED UNDER FOOT[TREAD ONSERPENT WHEN[RAISEDIN CHRIST] DEAD RISE]
YOU WILL NOT JOIN THEM IN BURIAL[AND RESURRECTION] FOR YOU HAVE KILLED YOUR PEOPLE[WAGES OF SIN DEATH]
MAN OF SIN=SATAN ENTERING FLESH/MIND OF MAN....WHICH jesus christ does away with at the breath of his coming :bgdance: :cloud9:
Quote from: sheila on September 28, 2011, 10:34:52 PM
MAN OF SIN=SATAN ENTERING FLESH/MIND OF MAN....WHICH jesus christ does away with at the breath of his coming :bgdance: :cloud9:
Spirit means wind. Wind that blows the dust of the shelves :laughing7:
:grin:
Quote from: Molly on September 28, 2011, 09:31:51 PM
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 28, 2011, 09:26:50 PM
Molly, the beasts are made on the sixth day so is adam.
Titus 1:12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons." v 13 this is true
2 Pet 2:12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Ecc 3:18 I said to myself concerning the sons of men, "God has surely tested them in order for them to see that they are but beasts."
oops You're right. But, still in the image and likeness of God.
Do you think that something must be added to man to make him like God, or taken away from man to make him like beasts?
In the image and likeness of God, but being covered by the skin garments that were given for covering. And our flesh is the curtain, which is covered with cherubs(representing the beasts), they also looked and saw the cherubs blocking the garden. Now we see as in a mirror, in an enigma (the enigma of the sphinx), but then we will see face to face, and we all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of God, being transformed from glory to glory. If a man is a hearer of the word and not a doer(spirit led), he is like a man who looks at the face of his origin(genesis) in the mirror and immediately goes out and forgets what sort of man he was
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent. The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.
Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him. The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed.
Are you saying Jesus is one of the cherubs or the sword? I've thought of the 2 which are one (made of one piece) signifying the mystery of Christ and the church. They were made of olive wood, and overlaid with gold, pointing to our future glorious state (gold), with the olive wood representing the man in us. Now the gold is hidden on the inside, but then it will be on the outside as our covering.
The only problem with that is that the cherubim are the carriers of Jesus/glory of the LORD as seen in EZE. And the cherubim throw themselves to the ground in the presence of the lamb in REV
So my other thought is symbolizing the one new man, Jew and Gentile, as we are grafted into the olive tree(olive wood).
Okay I answered myself, He is the sword, the word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword. I'll leave the first idea there just incase there's something there.
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 29, 2011, 09:37:18 PM
Are you saying Jesus is one of the cherubs or the sword?
There was a angel woven on the veil/curtain that was rent at His death.
Exod 36 [ACV]
8 And all the wise-hearted men among them who wrought the work made the tabernacle with ten curtains, of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, with cherubim; the work of the skilful workman made them.
well,the little children were partakers of flesh and blood.....no man ever hated his own flesh,but feeds and clothes it.
different story for the king of tyre...he killed his people
yeah, it doesn't say that the cherub is holding it, it merely states the cherub was posted there "and" so was the flaming sword.
The fact that it turns every way is what a beacon does for those searching for shorelines . . . . .and for me, it speaks of the infinity of his presence.
Quote from: Nathan on September 29, 2011, 09:13:02 PM
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent. The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.
Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him. The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed.
Just a thought, Bill Britton reasoned that the "flaming sword" to keep the way of the tree of life, was mans tongue, that must be tamed. Just a thought. :HeartThrob:
more like cloven tongues of fire
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them. In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them. In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM. If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him. The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).
Pentecostal swords...
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 29, 2011, 11:44:03 PM
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them. In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them. In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM. If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him. The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).
Above and around is the same. The wings cover whats under/between them.
Four faces are situated at the main Zodiac directions. North/Easts/South/West. Also being the 4 main tribes.
Ernest Martin thought that the image of the beast was the restoring of the ark of the covenant to a false temple. He has a futurist viewpoint, I don't take that view, but I believe he's right. Same data, different final conclusion.
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 29, 2011, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Nathan on September 29, 2011, 09:13:02 PM
May I propose to you that the one standing "with" the fiery sword at the garden's gate was removed from that position the moment the veil in the tabernacle was rent. The "flaming" sword was not to keep us out as much as it was a sign to direct us back in.
Genesis 3
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
That's why Jesus proclaimed he is THE WAY, the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except "through" him. The flaming sword is the way and it leads us back into the garden from which we were originally placed.
Just a thought, Bill Britton reasoned that the "flaming sword" to keep the way of the tree of life, was mans tongue, that must be tamed. Just a thought. :HeartThrob:
God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden, then posted a symbol for man's tongue at it's gate? How the heck did they come to that one?
Quote from: WhiteWings on September 29, 2011, 11:50:15 PM
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 29, 2011, 11:44:03 PM
The flaming sword being Jesus makes sense, because whenever we see the cherubs they have the glory with them. In the HOH the shekinah rested on/above/between? them. In EZE above them, In REV they surround HIM. If the 4 gospels are each a face of the cherubs, they "contain" Jesus, and if we are the cherub we contain Him. The zodiac(with the four points of the compass being a face) contains HIS story, He is seen as the sun, and the sun travels through the zodiac (I think, I don't really understand how it works).
Above and around is the same. The wings cover whats under/between them.
Four faces are situated at the main Zodiac directions. North/Easts/South/West. Also being the 4 main tribes.
Four main tribes? I didn't realise there were four "main" ones.
The camps were situated with them being the "main" ones at each of the compass points. See Numbers 2
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh. What'dya know about that.
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 30, 2011, 12:26:36 AM
The camps were situated with them being the "main" ones at each of the compass points. See Numbers 2
4 corners of the earth. 4 horsemen.
(http://www.americaisraelprophecy.com/picture/clarence_larkins_4_banners.gif)
4 groups of 3. Compare that with the Laver/LoF
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/42stargate/04images/Solomon/molten_sea_1.jpg)
Quote from: Nathan on September 30, 2011, 03:07:08 AM
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh. What'dya know about that.
The north point symbolizes up, and its an eagle, and Dan is the judge. What do you always say about elevated places? :bigGrin: Also in the zodiac the eagle has the serpent in its talons, seems to me that might be telling us how to overcome the serpent.
The rising sun(Son) comes from the East. The daystar arises in our hearts. A star will rise out of the tribe of Judah. On the temple mount looking out from the HOH toward the east is Mount of Olives where Jesus was crucified and Ascended, also the Shekinah moved there right before the destruction of the temple. The high priests camped to the east too.
The man on the south point which is the right hand if God is sitting on His throne the ark of the covenant, looking east, Son of my Right hand.
Our works (ox) are behind us, and our kingship (lion) lies ahead of us. Our works push us toward the east toward the kingship. Kingship is the goal not the works.
If the gospels are each one of the heads, that leaves out the fifth gospel, ACTS. The major story of acts (to me) is Pauls revelation of Christ IN him. Paul was the 13th apostle, just as there were 13 tribes, with Joseph being doubled to continue the outer shell, since Levi was called out of the outer encampment to camp around the tabernacle, then out of the families of Levites Aarons family was the one who could go into the HOH. Always calling out, just as the overcomers are called out. I see Paul/ACTS/overcomers representing the actual tabernacle itself, which is the central point of the whole Bible, Christ in you the hope of glory.
The encampment is the first dividing line, outside that is the nations, the outer encampment is body. Levites with inner encampment is Soul. Aaron/high priests is spirit.
That's pretty good!! I have been able to always see Judah as the leading tribe in that not only is that the actual lineage of Jesus natural bloodline, but also the importance of it's being at the "east" Gate of the temple . . .the ONLY gate to the temple and Judah meaning praise always has been a joy to me to see the only "way" to enter into the temple is "through" praise . . .worship has always been one of my favorite things to do.
For me, the book of Acts seems to be more about the shift from the Gospel that was first offered to the Jews, to it changing it's emphasis from Jew to Gentile . . .it's the closing chapter to Daniel's prophetic "70 weeks" that God had set aside for the Jews originally.
And the key to that Praise worship is to REALIZE THAT GOD WORKED IT ALL..and repent of the 'work' of our hands......idols,images that somehow we have saved
ourselves or delivered ourselves through our own wisdom or righteousness.
Quote from: redhotmagma on September 30, 2011, 03:55:53 PM
Quote from: Nathan on September 30, 2011, 03:07:08 AM
Judah, Rueben, Ephraim and Dan . . .huh. What'dya know about that.
The north point symbolizes up, and its an eagle, and Dan is the judge. What do you always say about elevated places? :bigGrin: Also in the zodiac the eagle has the serpent in its talons, seems to me that might be telling us how to overcome the serpent.
The rising sun(Son) comes from the East. The daystar arises in our hearts. A star will rise out of the tribe of Judah. On the temple mount looking out from the HOH toward the east is Mount of Olives where Jesus was crucified and Ascended, also the Shekinah moved there right before the destruction of the temple. The high priests camped to the east too.
The man on the south point which is the right hand if God is sitting on His throne the ark of the covenant, looking east, Son of my Right hand.
Our works (ox) are behind us, and our kingship (lion) lies ahead of us. Our works push us toward the east toward the kingship. Kingship is the goal not the works.
If the gospels are each one of the heads, that leaves out the fifth gospel, ACTS. The major story of acts (to me) is Pauls revelation of Christ IN him. Paul was the 13th apostle, just as there were 13 tribes, with Joseph being doubled to continue the outer shell, since Levi was called out of the outer encampment to camp around the tabernacle, then out of the families of Levites Aarons family was the one who could go into the HOH. Always calling out, just as the overcomers are called out. I see Paul/ACTS/overcomers representing the actual tabernacle itself, which is the central point of the whole Bible, Christ in you the hope of glory.
The encampment is the first dividing line, outside that is the nations, the outer encampment is body. Levites with inner encampment is Soul. Aaron/high priests is spirit.
You had better be careful. You might start sounding like Nathan. :winkgrin:
Dear Jesus . . . help me love Shawn . .cuz HE'S KILLIN' ME!!
Quote from: Nathan on September 30, 2011, 10:23:02 PM
Dear Jesus . . . help me love Shawn . .cuz HE'S KILLIN' ME!!
:grin: