Awake Sleeper, Arise from the dead, and the light of Christ will shine upon you

[rosered]

There has been alot of Revelation verse  referrence as of late
  and I was reading in another place   
I just had to say something   that we all know yet may be reminded of  once  again
  them things help  alot sometimes
  I use this Bible tools  site

The meaning of Revelation in the Bible
(From Easton's Bible Dictionary)

an uncovering, a bringing to light of that which had been previously wholly hidden or only obscurely seen. God has been pleased in various ways and at different times (Hebrews 1:1) to make a supernatural revelation of himself and his purposes and plans, which, under the guidance of his Spirit, has been committed to writing.
(See WORD OF GOD .) The Scriptures are not merely the "record" of revelation; they are the revelation itself in a written form, in order to the accurate presevation and propagation of the truth.


And  realize there is alot of symbolism    like the  7's     and found this as well searching



Of all the symbolic numbers in the book of Revelation, the number "7" receives prominence.

"7" is the number of completeness, of perfection, and of dispensational fullness. (Dispensational: the divine ordering of worldly affairs.)

And so we have the 7 spirits before God's throne standing for the infinite perfection of the Holy Spirit. (Revelation 1:4)Greeting to the Seven Churches
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from ihim jwho is and kwho was and who is to come, and from lthe seven spirits who are before his throne,

We have the 7 stars in Christ's right hand standing for Jesus' complete authority over the churches. (Revelation 1:16) We have the 7 horns and 7 eyes of the Lamb signifying His almighty power (horn = strength) and supreme intelligence / insight and perfect omniscience. (Revelation 5:6)

We have the 7 churches in chapter 2 and chapter 3 which are symbolic / representative of the entirety of the church of the 1st century and, also (some would suggest), of the church of all ages.

We have the 7 seals written on the scroll (the title deed of earth) symbolic of the complete program of the age of which Christ is the administrator. (Revelation 5:5)

We have the 7 trumpets (contained within the 7th seal) symbolic of the entirety of the judgments of God intended to break the power of evil. (Revelation 8:2-11:16)

We have the 7 vials or bowls (which are contained in the 7th trumpet) symbolic of the fullness of the wrath of God rendered against godless people. (Revelation 15:5-8; 16:1-21)

Though not mentioned directly, we have the 7 attributes of praise to the Lamb that was slain (Revelation 5:12) and we have the 7 attributes of praise to God. (Revelation 7:12) (The Lamb and God are one and the same.) We also have 7 parts found in Revelation 14:1-20.There is also a broken "7". The half of "7" in the Bible is 3 1/2 or "a time and times, and half a time." (Daniel 7:25; 12:7) 3 1/2 is also "the half of the week." (Daniel 9:27) In the Old Testament a broken "7" is used to signify a time of tribulation. In Revelation it is seen in the form of forty-two months (Revelation 11:2; 13:5) or 1,260 days or "a time and times, and half a time." (Revelation 12:14)

   So Daniel[judgment of God; God my judge] to me lines up perfectly   with Revelation [uncovering, unveiling ]   in many places

  In Daniel  the things he saw    ''to come and be sealed up ''   till the end   and the  Things John said where to shortly take place and    reveal   this , as the Lamb of God looses  the seals


Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.



   for me these two    witnesses are speaking of the very same thing    that is to shortly   take place in  Johns  testimony     and   for a times time in Daniels  vision

  but when are the books open ??

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.


And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 
Rev 10:5   And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 


Rev 10:6   And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 


Rev 10:7   But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 


Rev 10:8 ¶ And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 


Rev 10:9   And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 


Rev 10:10   And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 


Rev 10:11   And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. 

   I am not certain  100%  but believe the little book John ate up was Daniel    , it seems He was able to expound  on more of what   is being revealed   

   He was told not to write what the 7 thunders uttered    , but told he will  prophecy again   to many

  but for me   as clear as I know how to  speak  , I believe those seals  of Daniel   were opened   when Jesus   the Lamb of God     resurrected from the Cross and they are open now and are being applied   in many  levels  and elements 


Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.  


  I hope   others will share  in this too

[rosered]

  Oh yeah  name of the thread
  :doh:

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 


Dan 12:2   And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 


Dan 12:3   And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 
Dan 12:4   But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

  I believe the knowledge of good and evil has increased   for sure   and used to look at this as the     dead  literal sense   , but have since  come to  believe its the   judgments in the earth and a here and now   correction     and glory to God   though Jesus Christ .

[eaglesway]

I personally also believe the little book that John ate was Daniel. The sealed portion of Daniel, which He was not allowed to write. Dan 12:4 "Conceal and seal up the words of this scroll until the end times".

Then at the end of John's revelation he is told, "Do not seal up the book for the time is at hand(here, very near)."


I love that John was weeping because he could not open up the sealed book. IMO the revelation of John is mostly the unsealing of the same revelation Daniel had, which he was told to "Conceal and seal up"......Sort of like Paul being carried to the third heaven and hearing words that he was not allowed to speak of.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:   He that loves us..does not put upon us things impossible for us to bear.....

   He knows the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.  He is not like the offspring of viper

who bind up heavy loads on men's shoulder's impossible to bear.

   'I have many things yet to say to you,but at present ye can not bear them"

[ed]

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I am an unwilling participant in the study of the book of Revelation.  I'd like to throw it away.  I'd rather it was not a part of the Bible.  I speak from my old and carnal man when I say that. I feel like I have to study it. 

I am biased.  I'm looking for love in the book.  It seems to be a book of judgement.  I am looking for love in judgement. 

God has always shown love to me.  From the first that that I figured love out in my journaling.  When I figured love out I ran to the Bible to get light.  I'm biased in the direction of love.  Lets get to tearing this book up.  Where is the love?

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

.

[rosered]

I personally also believe the little book that John ate was Daniel. The sealed portion of Daniel, which He was not allowed to write. Dan 12:4 "Conceal and seal up the words of this scroll until the end times".

Then at the end of John's revelation he is told, "Do not seal up the book for the time is at hand(here, very near)."


I love that John was weeping because he could not open up the sealed book. IMO the revelation of John is mostly the unsealing of the same revelation Daniel had, which he was told to "Conceal and seal up"......Sort of like Paul being carried to the third heaven and hearing words that he was not allowed to speak of.

Amen Bro John !!    thanks for the confirmation   :thumbsup:

[rosered]

:thumbsup:   He that loves us..does not put upon us things impossible for us to bear.....

   He knows the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.  He is not like the offspring of viper

who bind up heavy loads on men's shoulder's impossible to bear.

   'I have many things yet to say to you,but at present ye can not bear them"

Yes sis He must prepare us      for the kind of death that Glorifys God in the earth , I do believe  when Jesus told His disciples /students this  ,      they could not have  beared the suffering     and percecutions they would have to  experience   , and He would  be with them when they did!    first thing they saw was   Heaven opened   and HIM !!   sort of Like   what Stephen   saw   the glory that awaited him  :cloud9:  ...   

[rosered]

Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I am an unwilling participant in the study of the book of Revelation.  I'd like to throw it away.  I'd rather it was not a part of the Bible.  I speak from my old and carnal man when I say that. I feel like I have to study it. 

I am biased.  I'm looking for love in the book.  It seems to be a book of judgement.  I am looking for love in judgement. 

God has always shown love to me.  From the first that that I figured love out in my journaling.  When I figured love out I ran to the Bible to get light.  I'm biased in the direction of love.  Lets get to tearing this book up.  Where is the love?

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

.

I was looking for that verse Thanks Bro!!! 

I remember  reading  some Revelation  scriptures    about 15 years ago     and it was nothing but confusion for me       , none the less I found many of the scriptures in Rev in  other places of the Bible alot in the Old Testament

  and thought of Revelations  being like  some sort of key   that turns  and unlocks   many other places   in the Word for me as already happened and  Happening  and  is yet to be made  CLEAR 
  so   alot of  Rev  has  the same     chapters     numbered   such as 
Rev 4 and   Zech 4   on the 7   lampstand and  7  spirits of God and  7 eyes     and rev 6  and Zek 6 describing the 4 horses    the symbolism    and the two witnesses      of the Old and New testaments   as will as the Spirit and truth being in everyone of those   annoited to    write and declare   it to us to this day !    by the writen   word [eyes to see ], Spoken Word,[hears to Hear ] and Living Word  [heart to understand ]    till all three    have worked  His salvation in you    completly
  we     remain patient  and wait on the Lord  :gimmefive:  God bless

[eaglesway]

it is interesting to note that in Daniel, he was SEALED into the lions den with the SIGNET ring of the king of Medes/Persia. In the morning(when?) Daniel walked out unscathed.
There is a symbol there that ties into the seals of revelation.

"You will be tested ten days, be faithful to the end and I will give you the crown of life".

We tend to think from the top down, but God builds from the bottom up......Roots, Foundations, Chief Cornerstones etc.

"That you, being ROOTED & GROUNDED in love may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, the length, the depth, the height and to KNOW THE LOVE OF CHRIST SO THAT YOU CAN BE FILLED UP UNTO ALL THE FULNESS OF GOD(God as all in all in you :o)"

God has been preparing a pure lump, unleavened, unstained by the world, to be His root and foundation of the restoration of all things- a peculiar people, a priesthood of sons, the servant kings, the elohim of the new creation.

"For God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself and has entrusted us with the word of reconciliation". As such we are sent out as sheep among wolves, lambs among lions.

The first resurrection is for overcomers, whether you see it historically or figuratively or both, and their sanctification is INTO LOVE and INTO RIGHTEOUSNESS- into those works that were prepared from the foundation of the world that we should walk in them......"

He that has begun a good work in you is faithful and He will do it"..."because IT IS GOD WHO IS IN YOU to willl and to work of His good pleasure." ..."Be not like the horse or the mule that must be beaten with a stick to be dragged to the water trough"..... "Humble yourself under the mighty hands of God and at the proper time He will lift you up"..... "Let patience have its perfect work that you may be found complete and wholly prepared, lacking nothing"...... "This is the faith and patience of the saints".... "Be not amazed at the variety of trials and afflictions that befall you for it is for the trying of your faith which is more precious than gold tried in the fire"....." Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly of heart, and you will find rest for your souls".....

In the prophets somewhere it is written, "I will surround Zion like a wall of fire". No one gets into Zion without passing through that fire. " I will purify the sons of Levy like a refiners fire and a fullers soap and I will purge out all their alloys"......

It is not the obvious stuff that God is after in these fires. It is the alloys. The brass that looks like gold and the iron that look like silver. The stuff we think is out "good", our "strong". He wants to craft his Lampstand from one lump of gold tried in the fire 7 times(Zechariah 4). Malleable, pure, workable in the heat, not brittle, not tinny, providing a true reflection, worthy of the light it bears within it.

Daniel was safe within the lions den because the fire had no place to kindle upon him. So also with his brothers in the fiery furnace of Babylon- also a picture of Israel, God sent them into the fiery furnace to burn off their bonds and to DEMONSTRATE HIS GLORY IN THE MIDST OF BABYLON, a testimony to the true king in the midst of the regalia and pomp of the false king, the Head of Gold. This was a foreshadowing of the holy lump and the seed to be carried through all the generations of this age and is being re-enacted all over the world as the flood of iniquity that tests our resolve DRIVES US into the bosom of the Father for relief. This bosom is the secret place, the heart of our loving Father who will let us take our inheritance, if we like, and spend it in the pig sty.

Come through the pig sty to wisdom :o) Or come through the lions den or the fiery furnace, it really doesnt matter that much because in all things God is teaching us the glory of His love for us- but He will have His holy lump, and Jacob he loved and Esau he hated and his calling and election is His to give and take away(ICor 3:13-15).

We are called to believe and to endure and to SEEK. The more we seek, the more we see how little we know and the more the true riches become evident as His love begins to find a way through the brokenness He is building into us. Gold, humility and love, silver, righteousness and faith.

To me that's what John's revelation is about. The details are important but not near as important as the purpose behind God's works. His works are CRAFTED TO BRING US INTO HIS WAYS and to SHAPE US INTO VESSELS that can bear His light in a way that is pleasing unto Him and generous like He is in freely loving our adversaries and the world around us.

Nevertheless, we boldly declare His glory, unashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ, now, this good news- because WE TRULY HAVE THE GOOD NEWS LOL. Men can killus or exclude us over it, it doesnt matter because God has ordained that by the foolishness of proclaiming Christ crucified and resurrected, the principalities and powers are disarmed and the works of the devil destroyed, including all lies and even the chains of death.

As we awaken in the morning of His light we see that the light needs so much less of our goodness and so much more of His love. Lord have mercy. Let it rain.

[ed]

Let it rain.

Outstanding.

Enjoy the fire!

[sheila]

Beautiful! my brother.

[rosered]

  yay  :thumbsup:

Lord have mercy.

Dont know a soul on the face of the earth  , before  or now  or to come who does not need Gods love , mercy and grace , cannot think of one  :dsunny:

[WhiteWings]

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.   
.....
I am not certain  100%  but believe the little book John ate up was Daniel    , it seems He was able to expound  on more of what   is being revealed

The little book is the Ketubah/marriage contract in Jesus' hand.

[rosered]

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.   
.....
I am not certain  100%  but believe the little book John ate up was Daniel    , it seems He was able to expound  on more of what   is being revealed

The little book is the Ketubah/marriage contract in Jesus' hand.

Is that like the  marriage  of the Bride and Lamb ?

  Just curious ,    could do a search    like '',The little book John ate Ketubah'' ? Thanks

[WhiteWings]

Yes.

Before the bethrotal started a 5 section (books of Moses) marriage contract was written and sealed. The only person who was allowed to open the contract was the groom (or in rare exceptions court). Nobody could open it but one. A strong hint that Jesus is that angel.

Other things that identify the Mighty Angel as Jesus.
1- 1Thes 4:16       :"the Lord himself will come down from heaven."
1- Rev 10:1          :"a mighty angel coming down from heaven."

2- Rev 10:1         :rainbow on his head, face like the sun, pillars of fire
2- Ezek 1:27-28    :bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, color amber, fire from loin down. Glory of the Lord.

3- 1Thes 4:16        : He would give "a loud command."
3- Rev 10:3          : He will give a "loud shout like the roar of a lion." 
Lazarus resurrection shout john 11:43
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

4- 1Thes 4:16        : "with the voice of the archangel."  ---> The best man blowing the shofar. Groom is already down
1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4- Rev 10:4          :"I heard a loud voice from heaven"

5- 1Thes 4:16         : "with the trumpet call of God."
5- Rev 10:7          : "when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet."
This raising of the dead will occur in accord with the "seventh angel" sounding his trumpet, which is the same as the "last trumpet" mentioned in 1Corinthians 15:51-52.

6- 1Thes 4:16       : "the dead in Christ will rise first."
6- Rev 10:7          :"the mystery of God will be accomplished."
In short, the raising of "the dead in Christ" IS "the mystery of God" that John recorded.
1Cor 15:51-52 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twin-kling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

[eaglesway]

Rev 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.   
.....
I am not certain  100%  but believe the little book John ate up was Daniel    , it seems He was able to expound  on more of what   is being revealed

The little book is the Ketubah/marriage contract in Jesus' hand.

Is that like the  marriage  of the Bride and Lamb ?

  Just curious ,    could do a search    like ",The little book John ate Ketubah" ? Thanks

For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two of them shall be one flesh. This is a mystery, I am speaking of Christ and the ecclesia.(Eph 5:31;32)

At midnight a cry was uttered, Behold(Look, see, comprehend, understand) the bridegroom comes, go ye out to meet Him.(Mt 25)

And I John saw the holy city, the new jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, adorned as a Bride for the Bridegroom (Rev 21:2)

And to her it was given to be clothed in white linen,bright and clean, and the white linen is the righteous acts of the saints (Rev 19:8)

Wheels within wheels, y'all... wheels within wheels :o)

[rosered]

  Hi WW ,   
I can see where you got that  ''little book '' from     the contract of union 

Thanks for sharing this Tony .
  I know it never says  anywhere  what the little book is  exactly .
  So it  is not somthing   the Lord gives directly .

I did read where Ezekiel    the''  title '' son of man ''  eats a scroll and  it tastes sweet  in his mouth 

  but thats the extent   of  that .

  Yes John , wheels within wheels        lots of moving and   shaking   going on along the way 

   Thanks Bros !!     appreciate your contribitions on the subject . :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

I did read where Ezekiel    the"  title " son of man "  eats a scroll and  it tastes sweet  in his mouth

The scroll that tastes sweet and bitter was also how kids started their very first Torah lesson. They literally dipped piece of Scripture in honey and ate it. I'm not sure it had any marriage meaning to the Jews which is what you are implying. Right???

Thanks for sharing this Tony.
I know it never says  anywhere  what the little book is  exactly.
So it  is not something   the Lord gives directly.

Yeah, that's a problem. Many parts of the Bible seem to assume a basic understanding 'everyone knows'.  But that very basic knowledge is largely lost of time. Not everything that's almost forgotten has great value btw.; but personally I find it very interesting. One example. During the marriage the groom worn a crown of roses with thorns. It represented the good and bad times of marriage. Or possibly more on topic, the sweet (honey) and bitter times??? Jesus had a crown of thorns. No roses, but still I think it was yet another marriage hint. As said, nothing that saves on its own, but imo all those tiny bits of knowledge can add up to better understanding that unlocks bigger stuff. Live the westernized nativity story is contrary to everything Jews of that time stood for. They would be greatly insulted reading it. But that goes way off-topic so I stop here  :punish:

wheels within wheels

I think it's a spinning Menorah.

[ed]

I know it never says  anywhere  what the little book is  exactly.
So it  is not something   the Lord gives directly.Yeah, that's a problem. Many parts of the Bible seem to assume a basic understanding 'everyone knows'.  But that very basic knowledge is largely lost of time. Not everything that's almost forgotten has great value btw.; but personally I find it very interesting. One example. During the marriage the groom worn a crown of roses with thorns. It represented the good and bad times of marriage. Or possibly more on topic, the sweet (honey) and bitter times??? Jesus had a crown of thorns. No roses, but still I think it was yet another marriage hint. As said, nothing that saves on its own, but imo all those tiny bits of knowledge can add up to better understanding that unlocks bigger stuff. Live the westernized nativity story is contrary to everything Jews of that time stood for. They would be greatly insulted reading it. But that goes way off-topic so I stop here

Enjoyed your site yesterday.

I'm a newb when it comes to Revelation.  A study would be a great(difficult) undertaking for me.  I did read through it the other day and noticed that a lot of it had to do with Jewish stuff. 

Read Galatians yesterday and was amazed how there is a whole book coming against the Judaizers.  Galatians is a simple read.  You don't even have to be very spiritual to "get it".

Revelation on the other had is complex.  Very Jewish if you ask me.  Bias intact, I still want to reconcile it to Universal Reconcilation.

I noticed that those that fight against universal reconcilation use a lot of Jewish stuff and ignore the Pauline.  I believe that there is good in both but they have to be in their proper perspective.  Agreeing with you, the long way around.

Did Jesus know Paul's gospel?  It was hidden, so not even Jesus(earthly ministry) revealed it, right?  Jesus Revealed it to Paul after Paul's conversion.

.

[WhiteWings]

I'm a newb when it comes to Revelation.  A study would be a great(difficult) undertaking for me.

The problem is this: I'm sure my view is right. My biljon opponents are sure their own view is right. How do/can you chose? I think the only method is study. Verify claims. You don't even have to understand how all conclusions are reached, but none of them may contradict verse.

I did read through it the other day and noticed that a lot of it had to do with Jewish stuff.

A Jewish priest living in a Jewish theocracy penning down the Gospel of a Jewish Son of God who lived by the Jewish OT. And imo that Jewish man 'translated' everything to Temple and marriage related stuff.

[rosered]

I did read where Ezekiel    the"  title " son of man "  eats a scroll and  it tastes sweet  in his mouth

The scroll that tastes sweet and bitter was also how kids started their very first Torah lesson. They literally dipped piece of Scripture in honey and ate it. I'm not sure it had any marriage meaning to the Jews which is what you are implying. Right???

Thanks for sharing this Tony.
I know it never says  anywhere  what the little book is  exactly.
So it  is not something   the Lord gives directly.

Yeah, that's a problem. Many parts of the Bible seem to assume a basic understanding 'everyone knows'.  But that very basic knowledge is largely lost of time. Not everything that's almost forgotten has great value btw.; but personally I find it very interesting. One example. During the marriage the groom worn a crown of roses with thorns. It represented the good and bad times of marriage. Or possibly more on topic, the sweet (honey) and bitter times??? Jesus had a crown of thorns. No roses, but still I think it was yet another marriage hint. As said, nothing that saves on its own, but imo all those tiny bits of knowledge can add up to better understanding that unlocks bigger stuff. Live the westernized nativity story is contrary to everything Jews of that time stood for. They would be greatly insulted reading it. But that goes way off-topic so I stop here  :punish:

wheels within wheels

I think it's a spinning Menorah.

  Bro T , Thanks for the   extra effort is showing me these   marriage customs   of the Jewish  faith 

  I  Just figured it must be Daniel    ,  and here is the reasons I come to that conclusion

   right or wrong   , it was not random  lol

   We know   the Whole Bible  is a mystery

  and  its Jesus that  its all writen of
  and the Spirit of prophecy  is how one will know and understand the Book / books   opened
    Revelation  says as much

   Daniel   had many things reveled to him by reading  Jeremiah    and the 70 years  of Babylon and  the coming  destruction of Jerusalem  , yet this was far off
  and we  know    Jesus was saying its near at the door and so it was  70 a.d 

  Jesus come to tear down the old and make all things new of Himself being that New  Jerusalem/ Sion   ,Kingdom of God  dwelling with mankind ...

allowing the Gentiles   /all nations ,also an opportunity   of salvation   , from the    tearing down of the Jewish  nation  a  temporary    state ,who has never fully recoved from    that   blow 

   not saying  its right or wrong   thinking    here Bro 
Its just   one aspect       and I do believe there is more than one aspect to Look at GODS   working His will and desire on all


Been seeing   many things differently   , than just one way , for some time now  :Peace2:
 

[eaglesway]

of wheels within wheels and jewish minoras.

many jewish traditions are fashioned after things in the scritpures, shadows and echoes of  realities in the spiritual realm

The temple itself and all the articles in it are picttures of spiritual realities, as was Moses tent.

As the prophets amplify on the vision of the spiritual habitation, and Joh(Rev) adds to it, it becomes increasingly clear that the things which are unseen are geater than the things that are seen, as it is written in Hebrews.

As Paul said of the law, through which the tent of meeting and the lampstand/minora was given, "Shadows of the reality which is in Christ".

[eaglesway]

Of course, Jewish tradition is not always the best at recognizing what God is doing and saying.

They crucified Jesus because, among other things, He invalidated their traditions and accused them of exalting them over spiritual reality.

[ed]

I'm a newb when it comes to Revelation.  A study would be a great(difficult) undertaking for me.

The problem is this: I'm sure my view is right. My biljon opponents are sure their own view is right. How do/can you chose? I think the only method is study. Verify claims. You don't even have to understand how all conclusions are reached, but none of them may contradict verse.

I did read through it the other day and noticed that a lot of it had to do with Jewish stuff.

A Jewish priest living in a Jewish theocracy penning down the Gospel of a Jewish Son of God who lived by the Jewish OT. And imo that Jewish man 'translated' everything to Temple and marriage related stuff.

:thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

That depends how we look at that EW.

Many customs are ordered by God.
But many ain't. Or at least aren't found in the Bible. Same for the Temple design btw.
But still the Bible follows many of those customs that are not ordered by God.
Did God just adapt or: Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps.

Of course, Jewish tradition is not always the best at recognizing what God is doing and saying.

They crucified Jesus because, among other things, He invalidated their traditions and accused them of exalting them over spiritual reality.

That's not really an argument against customs. Just look at how correctly the 1000 Christian denominations understood the written Word.

/EDIT Obviously I'm talking about customs that in no way contradict Scripture.