SHEOL RELOADED

[Andrew]

Posted by white wings

''Sheol is the Hebrew abode of the dead, or of departed spirits. It is a subterranean region of darkness, from which return is impossible.
The Judeo-Christian term hell comes from the Hebrew word "Sheol", which technically means landfill. The confusion over what this word actually means stems from the fact that the Hebrews really didn't have a set word to describe their underworld, so when referring to it they used words they thought might describe it, thus the word Sheol.

It is interesting to note that Hebrew landfills were very unsanitary and unpleasant when compared to modern landfills; these places were filled with rotting garbage and the Hebrews would periodically burn them down, however by that point they were generally so large that they would burn for weeks or even months. In other words they were fiery mountains of garbage.


==> Sounds like Gehenna"


Doesn't this make a good case for a fiery hell. If the old testament used a fiery garbage as a metaphor to describe the afterlife, and then Jesus kinds of makes a more disturbing metaphor with Gehenna (a fiery dump that is always burning." What was the point of these two metaphors if not to indicate hell?

This reminds me of a book I read where the guy has a near-death experience where he dies and then his soul is thrown into a garbage dump, and then he lands in hell.

I don't know how you guys can believe there is no hell. There's just so much evidence. Please tell me a story to make me think otherwise   

[GodIsLove]

I actually haven't heard this claim, that Sheol meant landfill. And a quick google search didn't bring up this claim either.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13563-sheol

"Etymology.
The word "Sheol" was for some time regarded as an Assyro-Babylonian loan-word, "Shu'alu," having the assumed meaning "the place whither the dead are cited or bidden," or "the place where the dead are ingathered.
Origin of Biblical Concept.
The question arises whether the Biblical concept is borrowed from the Assyrians or is an independent development from elements common to both and found in many primitive religions. Though most of the passages in which mention is made of Sheol or its synonyms are of exilic or post-exilic times, the latter view, according to which the Biblical concept of Sheol represents an independent evolution, is the more probable. It reverts to primitive animistic conceits. With the body in the grave remains connected the soul (as in dreams): the dead buried in family graves continue to have communion (comp. Jer. xxxi. 15). Sheol is practically a family grave on a large scale. Graves were protected by gates and bolts; therefore Sheol was likewise similarly guarded. The separate compartments are devised for the separate clans, septs, and families, national and blood distinctions continuing in effect after death. That Sheol is described as subterranean is but an application of the custom of hewing out of the rocks passages, leading downward, for burial purposes."

However, Gehenna did literally mean a place that was garbage dump, maybe this is what he was referring to?  Gehenna was a symbol of judgment but not necessarily after death, it may well mean earthly judgment.

And...
Even if there is a fiery hell...

The word aionios properly translated indicates it is not forever...

And the many very plain literal references to God reconciling all would have to be explained away.

When you say "there's so much evidence" that is confirmation bias, the word I keep bringing up. When you believe something you think you see evidence of it everywhere.

It's also this phenomenon:The Baader-Meinhof phenomenon is a term for 'frequency illusion', a type of cognitive bias your mind creates. Cognitive bias is when we think we see patterns but they are just a creation of our minds. So the frequency illusion is when you think you see something everywhere, like you are saying there's so much evidence, but us here at Tentmaker don't think that there is so much evidence at all. In fact the evidence people present for hell isn't evidence at all for us because we see it for what it is.

What you are doing is also a form of selective attention: when you focus on something you see it everywhere, but it's only because you are looking for it and your attention is ignoring all other information.

[jugghead]

I would definitely need to agree with GIL in her post.

When you think about it, the term "in the earth" can be understood as "in the ground" or subterranean, but if we understand ourselves as seed planted in this world/earth/soil to grow, is it not seeing it as a "good" thing rather than an "evil" thing?

I would rather set my mind on the things above (good) rather than things below (evil).

my  :2c:

[Lazarus Short]

IF Hell were real...

It might be mentioned in the creation account. It isn't.

God might have warned Adam, Eve, Cain, and a lot of other people about their risk of ending up there. He didn't.

The Law that God gave to Moses might contain warnings about living in such a way that you would risk going there. It doesn't.

The Bible's many accounts of the deaths of many, many people might have specified whether they went to Hell. They don't.

The word "hell" might stand on its own, instead of being footnoted in the margin as "sheol," "hades," "gehenna" or "tartarus." But it is.

We might expect to find Satan/Lucifer declared as the Ruler of Hell. But he isn't.

We might expect Jesus to speak more of Hell than of anything else, but no, He didn't. I checked - He spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven far more, almost ten times more.

We might expect Paul the Apostle to have mentioned Hell, but he didn't.

We might have expected Hell to have a better foundation than dubious translation and the fictions of Dante, Milton and Baxter, but it doesn't.

[Andrew]

I wonder where White Wings got that information from concerning sheol being a landfill...

[jugghead]

If you actually look hard enough and can understand it, you will see that white wings was saying that a landfill was trying to be compared to or describe Sheol

It's like seeing the difference between a noun and an adjective, an adjective describes the noun, the noun does not describe the adjective

In other words, it is not seeing the two words as synonyms but as noun and adjective, Sheol is the noun, landfill is the adjective to try and describe Sheol

It's how I see it

[sheila]

Flesh andblood can not inherit...the body must return to the dust..it finally rests there from abuse by the wicked one who took it captive to sin works..sweat of the brow to eat,pain,death,cold,affliction,disease ,corruption and death.You bury bodies..you'hell'potatoes

[sheila]

He who digs a pit will fall into it. Satan dug a pit for Adam and his progency......therefore he fears the abyss[big bottomless pit]more than anything.Our outer shell[flesh] falls unto the earth and dies..but free gift of eternal life Jesus,I am resurrection.seed of God which is poured out on all flesh]Returns unto the Father. The gates of hell do not prevail against it.Our dead bodies are conscious ofnothing at all.Our spirits,however..will be praising the Father..and declaring..'O"death where is thy sting?"Praise be toGod andJesus Christ!"

  There we shallbe clothed in the best robe[unworthy as we are]

[darryl]

I don't know how you guys can believe there is no hell. There's just so much evidence. Please tell me a story to make me think otherwise

I'm not saying 'there is no hell'....I'm simply saying it's not 'eternal' and 'hopeless'....the word mistranslated as 'eternal' in many Bibles is 'aionios' and does not necessarily mean 'eternal'...it's pretty easy to prove that the word that stands behind 'aionios' in the minds of the writers of the NT is the Hebrew word 'olam'...and easy to prove that 'olam' does not mean 'eternal' in the absolute metaphysical sense...i could go to all the trouble to write the proof out or you could research it yourself.Please research it, thanks.

[jugghead]

I don't know how you guys can believe there is no hell. There's just so much evidence. Please tell me a story to make me think otherwise

I can give you the evidence I believe, but the question would still remain, would you believe the evidence the way I see it? If not, then you will remain believing it exists the way you do.

[marie glen]

Great replies! :thumbsup: The only thing came to my mind right away was figuring the sheol description is the one in the Bible.. and is the original - Eccles.9:5 which says the dead know nothing. And then verse 10 Whatever you find to do with your hands, do it with all your might, for in Sheol, where you are going, there is no work or planning, or knowledge, or wisdom.

Hades is simply the direct replacement for sheol, but sheol is still sheol. (Acts 2:27 quotes Ps.16:10 - For you will not leave my soul in Sheol, neither will you allow your holy one to see corruption. I think it?s Psalm 30 that talks sbout the dust of the pit? That word for pit translated elsewhere as hell - 30:9 - What profit is there in my blood, When I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your truth?

Also I realized the question of  - when?
When are the tares gathered to be burned?
The parable - Matthew 13:30 - Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, first gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn. Prophesied to occur at that time is fiery Armageddon.

I?ve become convinced that ultimately lake of fire is the all in all, and God makes all new, event when the elements (universe!) melt in a furious heat.. and there shall be a new heavens and a new Earth, where righteousness/rightness will dwell. [Rev.21:1-5; 1Cor.15:28; 2Pet.3:12-13] (I include the references so I won?t forget them.] :doh:

Because of these verses, I think the Judgment is an age -

How the Lord said, all those in the tombs (graves) will hear His voice and will come forth (from the graves/tombs) ..some in the resurrection of life, and some in the resurrection of judgment (Jn.5:28-29). Which is, quote, after the thousand years (Rev.20:5).
     And he said, Matthew 25:46 - these will rise into aionian-kolasis *AGE*LASTING-CORRECTION (translated, everlasting punishment) but the righteous into aionian life (the thousand years/millennium).

If the Judgment is sn age, and the Lord said He will draw all - Greek pas - every, all, the whole. Then I have to think no humans in lake of fire (the all in all consumption/regenesis?) ...The two cast into the lake of fire at the Lords return and arrival and in Rev.19, I believe are institutions of man.. (1.government/many headed geopolitical beast of today, and the 2.false prophet/so called science with its strong delusion causing great falling away.. seating man as in the temple of God.. as highest power deciding good and evil.. A sort of wizard with many modern miracles and wonders up his sleeve

Image of a lake of fire? https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russias-tsar-bomba-nuke-so-destructive-it-was-only-tested-once-122131
   

[rosered]

To me , I can easily see  HELL IS A PLACE OF TORMENT  , we can be in hell  when we   think about   earthly  things   that overcome us in thoughts and in our minds , to be carnally minded is DEATH /GRAVE ... this description is  a judgment of   eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil ,,
  I do see God as a consuming fire that NO EVIL can be in His presence  without being consumed   
we bear  both images as  earthly and heavenly  in the sense  of , the outer man pershing and the inner man being renewed day by day , but do not know what  we are to become , while bearing both images  of God and man ,  in Adam all die , to die is gain in the LORD  or suffering the evil  , to me this is all about being humbled  and destroying the pride of  life  that is sin nature  and gives anyone a superior  attitude  above anyones else that is also suffering judgements/choices and opinions  .

  Learning to wait on the Lord  to bring it to Light / gives us the knowledge , is key to overcoming the evil one that influences us in the negative ways of thinking . when our hearts are not fully  faithful in the LORD,   to me anyways , we are all suffering  for  doing good and evil  continually and become weary  with the  struggle...  the inner conflict  and the outer manifestation and condition of the whole world is proof , that a little evil destroys much good .....


All this life is temporary  but it is creating in us a   eternal  TRUTH  and glory that cannot be  changed , Because GOD has made it perfect  and complete   from the beginning   and it is taking its course  till the end  in my own opinion  , I cannot  influence anyone  , only the Holy Spirit can change anyone's mind/ heart  .
  We are just witnesses  and share our faith to what we  believe is truth .
  the Holy Spirit is a teacher that  , convicts us  and chastises us and confirms in us  and also comforts us  when the truth is prevailing . , by the WORD and Spirit of the Lord that  is reigning in power and authority over all !!  . Being  the dead and living , making us alive  to God  so we can dwell in His presence .    this is my short summary of hell  and heaven  in the  way one thinks , so he is .



Jesus says of the man in Luke 16: 23 "And in hell He lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS. . . " 24 ". . . for I am TORMENTED in this flame." 28 ". . . PLACE OF TORMENT."

Everything has its place , even evil for  the consuming fire of Gods love  and glory  to perish in the using and what remains will never be destroyed, JESUS CHRIST IS MAKING EVERYTHING NEW within HIMSELF , TO PRESENT TO HIS FATHER , HE IS THE LORD OF ALL , Given this title   of honor  at the cross  taking death away from satan's power of influence of  lies  , as I can see it ,  when He said it is finished  , that was the TRUTH OF THE WHOLE MATTER , reconciling  the whole world  to HIMSELF and  removing the guilt of sin  and error with the TRUTH .now to actually BELIEVE JESUS at HIS WORD  and not  falter or stumble with the traps   this whole world lies in groaning and moaning in wait  our entire lives  in the corruptible state of being consumed  in ...........

it has always been a state of mind  to me , in death or life,   we choose by our own tongue /language  what our hearts believe in .

    Cor 1 ;15 The Order of Resurrection

?27For ?God has put everything under His feet.?

Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.

28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all

. 29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them??

  This world is the baptism of death  to me  ,and how we are raised up into Life is in the power of GOD , to believe  in HIM first and foremost to do it by faith IN HIM , without wavering  and that is easy to say and hard to do
  As is any great and swelling words   , The proof is in the fruit of our doings , reaping what seeds we sow .
   
We share our hearts  and what is stirring us up in them,  all the time .

 

[jugghead]

 :iagree:

loved it Rose

[rosered]

 

  Thanks bro , it is nice when others understand  what you are trying to  convey   :dsunny:
  Lifting one another up to  communicate  in the same love of Christ .
Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, - What is ... give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had," 6 so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.Romans 15:5,6 ESV: