Proverbs 6:15 - Who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, Who spreads strife. 15Therefore his calamity will come suddenly; Instantly he will be broken and there will be no healing. 16There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:...
2 Chronicles 36:16 - 15The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm;
Assertion: No healing or repentance once judgement is implemented.
Quote from: KingKenny on September 01, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
Proverbs 6:15 - Who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, Who spreads strife. 15Therefore his calamity will come suddenly; Instantly he will be broken and there will be no healing. 16There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:...
2 Chronicles 36:16 - 15The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm;
Assertion: No healing or repentance once judgement is implemented.
Sorry ... I don't see the repentance issue here. Could you show where the judgement aspect starts: I don't see anything here about judgement. I guess you are asking if your assertion is true? IMHO, Not according to the scripture you provided as evidence. Sorry!?
Quote from: KingKenny on September 01, 2013, 02:22:49 PM
Proverbs 6:15 - Who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, Who spreads strife. 15Therefore his calamity will come suddenly; Instantly he will be broken and there will be no healing. 16There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:...
2 Chronicles 36:16 - 15The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them again and again by His messengers, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place; 16but they continually mocked the messengers of God, despised His words and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, until there was no remedy. 17Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm;
Assertion: No healing or repentance once judgement is implemented.
I think you're jumping to conclusions, and you need to look at the big picture.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil022.html
Really? I've had these aspects of scripture bombarded at me as proof that for example in Proverbs 6:15, man will be broken with no chance of healing or remedy. Same applies to the Chronicles. They are broken and there is no chance to be made anew.
you'll find the same principle in the scriptures in these words....turn such a one over to satan for the destruction of the flesh..
so THAT......THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED.N THE DAY OF THE LORD
sin in the flesh is cndemned in all men..do Not eat from that tree lest ye die...and thus sin entered through one man
and ll men died...it is appointed for aall men to die once...and THEN THE JUDGEMENT......
....through the righteousness of one man..the free gift of eternal life shall be given......unto all men.
I amke all things new....the old mn[of sin] perishes...the new creature in Christ receives free gift of eternal life...of
the grace of God.
Quote from: KingKenny on September 02, 2013, 10:32:45 AM
Really? I've had these aspects of scripture bombarded at me as proof that for example in Proverbs 6:15, man will be broken with no chance of healing or remedy. Same applies to the Chronicles. They are broken and there is no chance to be made anew.
Yes you are reading this correct 2K, Father does break some (read vessels made for destruction) The message here is not that they will NEVER be made anew, but rather, that NO one can find their way to Father but through Father himself.
Now many will say: "What is the use? What can I do? Why did you make me this way????"
Paul answers; "Who are you to question Father?"
Romands 9
19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?"
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
This is a lesson not in futility, but in TRUST!!!!! :HeartThrob:
Father has made it very easy through Christ. We do not need to understand ANYTHING. (Lean not on your Understanding) but in stead (Trust Father with all your Heart) Love is the key :HeartThrob:
We need nothing more than becoming the essence of Love. :HeartThrob: Nothing more is required than Trust and LOVE!!!!
With Love, Julie
Quote from: KingKenny on September 02, 2013, 10:32:45 AM
Really? I've had these aspects of scripture bombarded at me as proof that for example in Proverbs 6:15, man will be broken with no chance of healing or remedy. Same applies to the Chronicles. They are broken and there is no chance to be made anew.
With your permission, I've taken the liberty of using the ASV for this: "Pro 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; On a sudden shall he be broken, and that without remedy." A simple reading shows me nothing about repentance. Personally I have found that there is not real remedy for broken in anything. Healing doesn't take the break away, it just means it. So, I need to ask, what does broken have to do with judgement or repentance?
Secondly, when God enters the picture everything changes. There may be no remedy, but then God comes along and changes the nature of things. Christ healed folk who had been abandoned to their illnesses. There was no remedy, and then God arrived and He brought the healing because He was the healing.
I sometimes take heart with one of my favourite scriptures from the Old Testament; with your indulgence I'ld like to share it with you. It's a way of showing with God nothing every stays corrupt of bad: "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. (2Ch_7:14) Nothing is beyond our God.
Without remedy simply means that once God determines a thing it will be done and their will be no remedy for His action- whatever it is. It does not mean that if He disciplines someone- they will never have an opportunity to bow the knee, for every knee shall bow.
IMO,
It means if you disregard the reproof of the Lord it will bring unalterable consequences into your life- and that is true. Those circumstances will eventually break the transgressor, and when that happens, Jesus will be ther to forgive and reconcile the offender through the blood of His cross.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Quote from: KingKenny on September 01, 2013, 02:22:49 PMAssertion: No healing or repentance once judgement is implemented.
Keep in mind we are
not informed what the punishment will be.
The verse gives no indication on type, severity or duration.
The OT gives many examples of punishments of various types and duration according to rules set by God Himself. But still the vast amount of Christians seem to think judgement is an alternative spelling for the word hell. I think that's partly because many Christians don't even read the OT. They only have the NT part of the Bible.
:2c:
http://concordant.org/expohtml/GodAndChrist/TheDeityOfGod5.html
Going along with what eaglesway was saying...
Quoting those scriptures alone, lies the danger of isolating single scriptures and not viewing the whole council of God. It's called quote mining.
The Lord sent Israel into captivity for 70 years. In year 55, did he deliver them? No, they were not delivered, not for another 15 years. He did not turn back his hand, and would not turn back his hand, and they were not healed in that time. Some Jewish people no doubt were born, lived and died in captivity never knowing freedom until their deaths. Those people who were born and died in Babylon were born into captivity having done neither good or bad.
What they don't realize is that the Book of Chronicles is the historical book that chronicles the fulfillment of prophecy by Jeremiah, who said there was a set time for them to be in captivity.
When Jeremiah spoke and they did not repent, there was no remedy: "Therefore He brought up against them the king of the Chaldeans (a dynasty of Babylon) who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, old man or infirm;"
So, it doesn't say he "sent them to hell forever." It says they were KILLED. That's it.
Yet, don't forget 1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD brings death and makes alive
Check out the rest of 2 Chronicles 36:
20He carried into exile to Babylon the remnant, who escaped from the sword (the ones that weren't killed in the Babylonian takeover), and they became servants to him and his successors until the kingdom of Persia came to power. 21The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation (ie NOT FOREVER) it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah.
22In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:
23"This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
" 'The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Any of his people among you may go up, and may the Lord their God be with them.' "
Redemption...
Good Post!
1 Cor 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
These verses also reveal this paradox of the mercy and the absoluteness of God. "Behold both the kindness and the severity of God". The Lord is gracious yet He requires purity. If we build wood, hay and stubble the Day will reveal it. Fire will purge the mixture from the offering and when it is done burning in some cases their will be nothing left but the person. In some cases when the fire quits burning their will remain the fruit of an effective and purely motivated stewardship and it will be accompanied by its own reward- defined in terms of spiritual gifts and grace that will manifest among the overcomers in ages to come.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 30, 2013, 01:03:10 AM
These verses also reveal this paradox of the mercy and the absoluteness of God. "Behold both the kindness and the severity of God". The Lord is gracious yet He requires purity. If we build wood, hay and stubble the Day will reveal it. Fire will purge the mixture from the offering and when it is done burning in some cases their will be nothing left but the person. In some cases when the fire quits burning their will remain the fruit of an effective and purely motivated stewardship and it will be accompanied by its own reward- defined in terms of spiritual gifts and grace that will manifest among the overcomers in ages to come.
:2thumbs:
one of my favorite passages from J. Preston Eby - "Fire is a great cleanser, purifier, and changer.We all know that a horse must be broken, that is, its will must be broken before it is of any practical use to man. God put that will in the horse, but it must be broken and made to conform to the will of man. Just as surely did God put the will in man, BUT IT MUST BE BROKEN and we will benefit by the very process of breaking. Man may do a lot of crying and wailing, but when he is broken to HIS will, what a wonderful condition it is. God may take man over some rough places, even through the lake of fire and brimstone, but the love of God will break every man to His will.If you think the Kingdom of God is rosewater, or eau-de-cologne, you are mistaken. You cannot war on the devil with that. You cannot war on the carnal minds of men with that. You have to make war on the world, the flesh, and the devil with a sword sharper than any twoedged sword. You have to make war on the carnal mind with fire, divine fire that must burn up every inherent altar of Baal, and lick up the very dust around.
Make no mistake! OUR GOD is a consuming fire! He is man's "horse breaker" and He will break you, precious friend of mine, and bring you to the foot of the cross of Jesus no matter how hot He has to build the fire around you! Even if long ages of fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, they will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is self has died in the bloody sweat and all-saving cross of the Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God."
Hooo yeah. I love that. Mr. Eby speaks on universal salvation like nobody's business. "He will break you, precious friend of mine, and bring you to the foot of the cross of Jesus no matter how hot He has to build the fire around you!"
Matthew 21
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Let's be IN the rock having already been broken and crushed and let's stay broken and crushed to the end of the race. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on November 05, 2013, 05:55:01 AM
Hooo yeah. I love that. Mr. Eby speaks on universal salvation like nobody's business. "He will break you, precious friend of mine, and bring you to the foot of the cross of Jesus no matter how hot He has to build the fire around you!"
Matthew 21
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Let's be IN the rock having already been broken and crushed and let's stay broken and crushed to the end of the race. :HeartThrob:
Amen.
Ooh, I've just seen the responses to this thread.
Thank you all so much. There is much knowledge and wisdom in all your replies. :thumbsup:
Quote from: KingKenny on December 05, 2013, 11:40:11 PM
Ooh, I've just seen the responses to this thread.
Thank you all so much. There is much knowledge and wisdom in all your replies. :thumbsup:
:iagree: :thumbsup:
I would only add one thing, which I feel I learned during my many years as a spiritual hermit.. knocked my socks off actually and ppl likely get tired of hearing of it :laughing7:
But I am convinced (imo, by the Spirit of God) that
since the first advent of our Lord fulfilled the Spring Holy Days of ancient Israel, the long 2nd advent of our Lord will fulfill the Fall Holy Days of ancient Israel -
Trumpets (10 days/1000yrs later) - Day of Atonement [where those of the 2nd resurrection/all nonbelievers, never believed and many never heard the good news, etc, arrive DOA for DOJ (Day of Judgment) to find after a while, surprise! Day of Atonement (realized and received) then at the end of which is said "those not believing" after being resurrected, etc, "will go to the LOF (Lake of Fire), the 2nd death" - And finally (5days/500 yrs later, after beginning of DOJ/A) - Tabernacles, when God Himself will abide with mankind on an earth made new, in a universe made new.. ALL things made new..
It's not that I think no one will be cleansed in the LOF which is a common belief in UR (Universal Reconciliation) circles, but I think the opposer and his angels are the ones who end up going there, after all, they 'believe' already!
It's my belief the only reason all are not saved during this lifetime is for the sake of the drama/lesson we are all witnessing. A drama needs more than one character.. It's my opinion, understanding this is all God's truth proving drama, and foundational lesson before life/humanity/all those who have ever lived, can spread throughout the universe, puts everything else into perspective..
:Peace2: :Peace2:
p.s - truth proving drama that to walk away from God/Life/Perfection is to become imperfect, the opposite of life, hence can only result in a self destructive puff of smoke, dust and ashes (aka apocalypse) and!! learning the all important lesson of truly, truly loving one another is the key to LIFE. Love = THE key.. This drama and truth (imo) is being deeeply engraved on every heart, mind and psyche..
:Peace2: